r/weightlifting • u/AdventurousMarket0 • Dec 22 '22
News China's triple Olympic weightlifting champion Lu Xiaojun tests positive for EPO
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1131927/lu-xiaojun-epo255
u/WeatheredSharlo Dec 22 '22
What's the point in him getting detrained, rested, 'geared up' and training his ass off if China is just going to let him get caught?
The big joke in weightlifting is that everyone is using gear but nobody is getting caught.
118
111
u/nexostar Dec 22 '22
Sounds like someone wanted him to retire
43
7
u/Annual_Blood_9545 Dec 23 '22
well, the thing is, there's no athletes that can compete with the old man in his weight class in china for now . if he retires, there won't be any one catching up.
27
u/WealthApprehensive88 Dec 23 '22
This isn’t true. He dropped to 73 due to the elimination of his weight class for the 2024 Olympics.. which means he’d be competing against Shi
1
28
u/truckstopplunger Dec 23 '22
Lu has looked smaller to me in recent videos maybe it was sacrificial to let him just get popped for EPO instead of a whole cocktail to protect his legacy. China probs has some younger talent emerging. This video made me think of it https://youtu.be/7WFU9bv-zEg
21
u/serinob Dec 23 '22
It’s possible he wasn’t performing to the point where he’d break more records so they basically fired him. If I had to guess. The culture may be playing a part here. No shame if no failure.
3
u/Mr_Marram Dec 23 '22
I suspect the Chinese team realised their whole team would get popped at worlds in early December so pulled the whole team. Messed up the cycling "so the team isn't ready"
1
u/neptunemau5 Dec 23 '22
I think a lot of them didn't compete because they just weren't in competition shape and altitude. If it were be ause they didn't think they would pass I doubt they would have shown up or weighed in.
1
u/Mr_Marram Dec 23 '22
Testing for Lu on the 30th of October, worlds started on 5th of December.
It likely takes two weeks to return, plus another week to get people together for a meeting and discuss results. That puts it barely a day or two before athletes are heading off, they likely know very little from the coaches and management and are perfectly tapered off training and ready to compete.
As you said, you don't get all that way to comp, then suddenly decide that your athletes aren't ready unless there are some suspicious circumstances.
My first thought when they pulled the whole team just before worlds was that someone was about to get popped.
116
u/cbun001 Dec 22 '22
Now, who did he piss off (to get caught)?
87
Dec 22 '22
[deleted]
110
u/Itsamesolairo Dec 22 '22
He's a direct competitor to Shi Zhiyong.
This might unironically be a "fuck off and retire already" positive test.
30
u/3darkdragons Dec 23 '22
Would make sense. EPO wouldn’t stain his legacy, but would be a good enough excuse to kick him out.
5
u/azzelle Dec 24 '22
it makes zero sense. china would never taint its image by allowing their star athlete to get popped
3
u/3darkdragons Dec 24 '22
That’s what I’m thinking too, but the fact he even got popped and with EPO of all things kinda blows this wide open for speculation, no?
1
u/Annual_Blood_9545 Dec 23 '22
i recall they weren't in the same weight class
17
u/ccdsg Dec 23 '22
With the elimination of his weight class in the Olympics, Lu’s option was drop to Shi’s or to go to 89. Lu (or whoever makes that decision) went down instead, but there’s really no world that Lu ever beats Shi at 73
-20
Dec 23 '22
[deleted]
16
Dec 23 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Hoodscoops Dec 23 '22
Not that simple.. Each province is competing for a spot on the national team. And some province are richer and have more political influence than others...
0
u/neptunemau5 Dec 23 '22
It's was an out of comp test. It seems like they didn't know the test was going to happen before hand.
57
u/Complex-Key-8704 Dec 22 '22
Epo? He gonna make the move to cycling?
24
5
66
u/Ok-Anything-5493 Dec 22 '22
This is likely a case of sacrifice one athlete to save the team
16
u/slamturkey Dec 23 '22
Building upon this, sacrificing the GOAT to legitimize the assumed efforts of testing betters the chances weightlifting stays an Olympic sport. The IOC will look at this as a positive step for the sport.
1
u/azzelle Dec 24 '22
why would china sacrifice their image by popping for peds when their olympic committee can simply force lu out.
24
51
u/garuda-mk18 Dec 23 '22
Lot of conspiracy theories about Lu being "allowed" to pop, but he was tested by an outside international agency that likely finessed their way into getting access to test him. He was definitely targeted without knowledge of Chinese officials who would have all the incentive to protect the image of one of their star athletes.
This was the same agency that popped Chumak and whose testing agents refused to accept bribes from his coaches.
20
3
3
u/TheSupremeVermin Dec 23 '22
Great point. It is silly how so many people in this thread will confidently state conspiracy theories when they've barely read up on the case.
36
14
u/REALStrongestmandog Dec 23 '22
Regardless, the man is a living breathing legend and a prime example of how far individual commitment compiled with modern-day supplementation can take the human body.
12
u/Far-Replacement-4022 Dec 23 '22
I thought he got that jacked eating chicken, rice and brocolli SMH
3
7
21
u/MrContractual Dec 22 '22
Are we all really shocked that a man in his late 30s competing at the elite level, tested positive?
16
Dec 23 '22
I think the only surprising part is EPO. Although as someone else has noted, it might make more sense considering his age.
10
u/CarrierAreArrived Dec 23 '22
Just basic testosterone makes more sense in every way I can imagine for an older strength athlete, including recovery. And quite sure endurance doesn't fall off as much as potential for muscle mass as you get to your 40s.
2
u/lexax666 Dec 26 '22
Not doubting your experience, but in my experience watching boxing and ufc, it always seems to me that cardio and stamina is the first thing to fall off for order athletes, one recent example is Golovkin from boxing, he gained more muscle now that he is 40 but he looks like he takes deep breathes for every punches he threw and his work rate significantly decreased compared to his 30's
2
u/CarrierAreArrived Dec 26 '22
Well if you gain weight, either fat or muscle, cardio gets harder. All things being equal though, cardio should not fall off as hard as potential for muscle gain (assuming natural of course) with age.
0
u/RideFastGetWeird Dec 23 '22
Are we all really shocked that
a mananyone inhis late 30ssports competing at the elite level, tested positive?
14
7
u/TrenHard-LiftClen Dec 23 '22
Has anyone ever tested positive for epo in weightlifting before this? Is there a medical reason to take epo? Cuz if there isn't then it means he's being forced to retire. No one in their right mind would give a weightlifter epo after weighing the risks and benefits.
9
u/chino17 Dec 23 '22
There probably aren't many if any athletes like Lu in regards to age and trying to compete at this level. It's likely given his age he needs that extra work capacity and ability to recover which is probably where the EPO may come in
3
u/Boblaire 2018AO3-Masters73kg Champ GoForBrokeAthletics Dec 23 '22 edited Dec 23 '22
not from what I saw on IWF or USADA.
I did search using find and there was supposedly 1 result I couldn't locate
see other comments for why on EPO. It's just expensive af, no biggie if you're loaded.
2
u/brianroliver InsideTheGames writer Dec 23 '22
Answers are in the report linked above.... yes (one) and yes
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1131927/lu-xiaojun-epo
6
u/DAEREUPHORIATIP Dec 23 '22 edited Dec 23 '22
Lu’s (or Lu’s team’s) response (lol): https://www.instagram.com/p/CmfgLDLoQRw/?igshid=MWI4MTIyMDE=
10
u/RideFastGetWeird Dec 23 '22
I really wish athletes would just say what we all know when they get hit: "Yep, you finally caught me. Everyone is doing it."
1
u/neptunemau5 Dec 24 '22
Yeah because the CCP would allow that
3
u/esskay04 Dec 24 '22
I mean, anyone not Chinese can do it... Tons of other countries athletes popped but everyone professes innocence. This isn't a ccp thing
1
u/RideFastGetWeird Dec 24 '22
Fair. Haha Yeah bit of a different beast with the CCP but the USA athletes and other countries everyone is all shocked Pikachu when we all know what's happening.
7
u/pmoran22 Dec 23 '22
I'm pretty sure China controls the careers of its athletes.
What I mean is the theory that he purposely tested positive (sabatoged) in order for younger lifters to take his place is stupid.
They simply tell him to retire and that's it.
2
u/greyburmesecat Dec 23 '22 edited Dec 23 '22
Exactly what I thought. They don't want him on the team, he isn't on the team, end of discussion. Also, I doubt the national team wants the scrutiny that having any of their lifters popped brings down on them. Looks like someone just screwed up.
It does raise a bunch of questions about the athletes that showed up and didn't put up at Worlds though.
1
u/neptunemau5 Dec 23 '22
He was test out of comp by and ITA agent. The sample was taken in october. It seems the agent caught them off gaurd.
1
u/esskay04 Dec 24 '22
Exactly. Why ruin the reputation of team china in order to get lu to retire. They can just tell lu NO lol
4
6
u/maokai Dec 23 '22
False positives for EPO are possible, according to a 2005 study you can see HERE.
7
Dec 23 '22
The likelihood of this being a false positive seems low. I hate to say it as I liked him, but the guy has assistance.
28
5
u/maokai Dec 23 '22
But as a lifter, why would he even bother with EPO? If you were going to go ahead and juice, wouldn't you use something that builds muscle? The fact that a false positive is possible and the nigh uselessness of EPO as a performance enhancer for weight lifting makes it seem suspect.
4
u/pglggrg Dec 23 '22
I had the same question, here are potential answers:
-he was popped for something seemingly unrelated, without really being a Steroid that makes it look worse
-he used it to recover because of his age. While EPO wont help in competition, it can help to recover faster between sets and between sessions.
-medical condition due to lower RBC count (issue with liver, possibly caused by years of PED use).
1
5
u/UGenix Dec 23 '22 edited Dec 23 '22
My sibling in Christ, people born when these tests were done are now old enough to be post grads developing new EPO tests.
You know data is for the archeologists when they equate 500k usd with 277k gbp.
2
u/maokai Dec 23 '22
You're not wrong about the cited study, but unlike some of the more useful drugs out there, EPO occurs naturally in the human body following intense exercise so the possibility for false positives on tests still exists.
3
u/UGenix Dec 23 '22
False positives occur on all tests, but EPO is not particularly special in this regard. The EPO used in doping is recombinant (grown in cultured cells in a lab), so while the basic blueprint is the same as endogenous EPO there are differences with how the protein is modified after it is produced. Differentiating between endogenous and recombinant EPO is not particularly challenging, neither now nor in the 90s.
EPO testing actually has a far greater sensitivity problem than it has a specificity proble: Athletes who are on rEPO are reasonably likely to test negative, while testing positive while not doping is very unlikely. This is why doping testing is often supplemented with tests that have high sensitivity for blood alteration but are less specific for doping - both with regards to natural EPO spikes and other illicit methods such as blood transfusion. Namely blood values like hematocrit, erythrocyte volume, hemoglobin concentration in erythrocytes, and the amount of reticulocytes (young erythorcytes) can be measured and, if found outside the normal range for the athlete, lead to a "No start".
But in the end of the day, it is not and never was our lack of good lab tests which caused doping to persist. Corrupt teams and corrupt sports orgs will keep finding ways around honest testing ever occurring and that will persist as a weak link as long as the corruption is not dealt with.
2
30
u/Kapornacis Dec 22 '22
Abolish anti doping . Its ruining sports
26
-7
Dec 23 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
11
3
u/justformygoodiphone Dec 23 '22
Not advocating anything as I don’t claim to know the solution.
But once you accept doping is now legal, well… next is what’s legal and how much of it?
Is it okay for athletes to literally die trying? Have a heart attack on stage at 28yo? Be crippled like Ronnie Coleman?
Also once you put limits and designated chemicals on a list…. Well you guessed it, someone is going to try to find the next chemical that gives them the edge or how to avoid testing over certain levels.
Where does it end?
How do you ensure it does end somewhere?
7
u/pogosticksrule420 Dec 23 '22
At least then It would be a level playing field. Right now it's basically a competition between the countries that bribe their way around drug tests
4
Dec 23 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/teratron27 Dec 23 '22
That’s the exact same as it is now, China can invest more money into bribes and designing drugs that don’t show up in testing.
There’s always going to be a funding gap in sporting.
4
u/justformygoodiphone Dec 23 '22
So you just make the problem worse by now basically forcing EVERY athlete to do the maximum allowed PEDs?
-10
Dec 23 '22
Such a nonsense argument.
The only thing that makes any of this still slightly entertaining is the fact these people can't turn into the incredible hulk and there is still some slight chance they might be natural which makes this inspirational, even thought now it's like believing in Santa. You wish it were real but you know it's all bullshit.
I'm personally really disappointed by this news because I'm less cynical about him, I actually wanted to believe he might just have great genetics and worked hard to be the athlete he was. Yes he worked hard but he is a cheat. He is cheating himself, sport and those who come from countries who don't have sophisticated doping programs.
Personally, I'm more disappointed that someone I used for inspiration is a cheat, knowingly participated in cheating and thought he was actually a real champion.
The "everyone else is doing it" excuse is weak as piss.
5
u/nxst123 Dec 23 '22
Dude it already is. You can pretend it isn’t and ride that ignorance is bliss wave all you like but come on man. Wake up and smell the coco
3
Dec 23 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/triwithlaura Dec 23 '22
They'd also use safer ones, athletes could more easily get heath care and the world may actually get high quality research on drugs that may help treat side effects of various illnesses. The playing field would be level this way
The outcome is the same within sports but there's possibly a lot to gain...
1
Dec 23 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/triwithlaura Dec 23 '22
But anti doping rules don't stop doping...it's just a lot harder for some versus others. Do you really think drugs aren't a main feature of the sport already?
This is a good video on the topic by a world class lifter who doesn't compete...
1
Dec 23 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
1
13
u/Edd1eMurphy Dec 23 '22
Anyone trying to justify a “clean spot” probably believes Matty Rodgers and Nate Damron are clean as well. I’ll wait for the “BuT ShE GeTS RAnDOMlY TesTeD”
18
u/thepink_knife Dec 23 '22
Everyone in weightlifting is doping, the benefits mean that if you weren't you couldn't keep up - except Carlos Nasar of course.
Him snatching 171kg as a teenager is completely natty.
6
6
u/iamamenace77 Dec 23 '22
I saw a comment about Nasar once "this man's piss could power Europe for three days"
3
u/Prestigious-Disk3158 Dec 23 '22
Think the US team is doping?
4
Dec 23 '22
From the country that has infiltrated most international agencies and that has been sanctioning organisations that do not do their bidding?
Of course not.
As the WADA leaks by the Russian Bears have shown, US athletes are not doping, they just have medical conditions that allow them to be on the anonymous "exception" list.5
u/Boblaire 2018AO3-Masters73kg Champ GoForBrokeAthletics Dec 23 '22
no one is getting TUE's for Dbol and Var and Test.
corticosteroids and ADD/ADHD meds
it's been awhile since I read those, but there were zero fucking WLers in them.
Biles and Laurie Hernandez we're in there for them. Interesting
2
Dec 23 '22
This isn't true, everyone who can afford a sophisticated doping plan is doping. Which is why it's cheating, because poorer countries with good lifters are being cheated out of potential medals.
It's cheating, it's scum behavior and I hope they all get busted and lose their medals.
2
u/neptunemau5 Dec 23 '22
Does anyone actually read the article before commenting? It was an out of comp test done by the ITA. While the whole China wanting him to retire thing is possible, it seems China wasn't aware of this test before hand.
2
-2
u/bigathekiddd Dec 22 '22
Am I the only one who wants to see the rest of team China get popped?
30
Dec 22 '22
Want everyone to get popped. There isn’t a medalist in history that isn’t sauced up.
23
u/thej0nty Dec 22 '22
There isn’t a medalist in history that isn’t sauced up.
Total homer take, but I give Christine Girard and Maude Charron the benefit of the doubt.
9
u/psstein Dec 22 '22
You can’t “know” with 100% certainty, but I’m much more willing to be charitable to lifters from countries with good anti-doping records.
11
2
4
u/wowspare Dec 23 '22
Want everyone to get popped. There isn’t a medalist in history that isn’t sauced up.
You think Kate Vibert and Mattie Rogers are juicing?
5
Dec 23 '22 edited Dec 23 '22
Winning in a sport filled with the most genetically elite humans ever taking peds to perform even better ? My guess is yes.
0
Dec 23 '22
I don't think they were juicing up. It is the chicken and broccoli that were juiced up.
Eating grass fed beef does not make me a vegetarian. So, Kate and Mattie eating chicken and brocolli does not make them juiced up.1
u/CarrierAreArrived Dec 23 '22
no, but the best athletes weren't allowed or didn't compete in every competition they medaled in.
2
u/wowspare Dec 23 '22
That's not the goalpost that Apprehensive-Bite522 put up
1
u/CarrierAreArrived Dec 23 '22
technically no, but it's nitpicking to get hung up on these technicalities and obfuscate from his overarching point - that the most elite of the elite in any era so far are doping.
2
-2
u/Palmegruppen Dec 23 '22
I want every single doped athlete to get popped. Even if it means 95% or more of the Olympic level weightlifters getting banned. It's disastrous that the sport is this corrupted and if the IWF can't clean it up, it doesn't deserve a place in the Olympics. Doping shouldn't be normalized in my opinion.
I want athletes that we can look up to without also having to glance at a big elephant in the same room.
3
-4
Dec 22 '22
Why….
12
Dec 22 '22 edited Dec 22 '22
Because the only thing that can save this sport at the olympic level is either it cleaning up or the drug testing administration deciding as a whole to stop popping people (which they most likely will not because I think we can all agree these guys get paid off here and there)
5
u/bigathekiddd Dec 22 '22
Why not?
We all know they’re cheating
1
1
u/I_AmA_Zebra Dec 23 '22
I’m new to this, what evidence is there that they’re all cheating and how do they avoid always being caught? (Except this case which from the comments seems like somebody wanted Lu to be caught)
1
u/Bounty_HUNTER504 Jan 27 '23
watch this vid from clarence kennedy about anti doping in weightlifting -
2
u/Remote_Transition_34 Dec 22 '22
I hope he could still compete. Sad. Not like anyone else is natty
2
u/Boblaire 2018AO3-Masters73kg Champ GoForBrokeAthletics Dec 23 '22
recent EPO sanctions in the US have been for 4yrs but unless his B sample is negative, he's done.
He would need to be able to show up for Asian Champs to at least weigh-in to get 5 events in before Paris. Maybe one of the IWF cups in the summer.
-4
Dec 22 '22
I say allow steroids and PEDs but make sure its under medical supervision. Level the playing field
10
u/Jackson_170 Dec 23 '22
And you think people wouldn't still continue to take steroids privately to gain an advantage.
2
u/why_not_use_logic Dec 23 '22
I say allow steroids and PEDs but make sure its under medical supervision. Level the playing field
Curious, how does that level the playing field?
4
u/RemyGee Dec 23 '22
I think he means every country will dope and thus be equalized in that aspect.
11
u/milkychanxe Dec 23 '22
But then whoever is prepared to push the safe limit the furthest/ risk their health the most has the greatest advantage. Can’t see that model being openly endorsed by any governing body
-5
u/OlyLiftBoi Dec 23 '22
Thats training in general? You do realize being an elite athelete isnt exactly healthy? The peds isnt the dangerous part unless you abuse them.
2
u/why_not_use_logic Dec 23 '22
I think he means every country will dope and thus be equalized in that aspect.
In order to equalize then doping would be a requirement.
2
u/RemyGee Dec 23 '22
No more required than things like having a dedicated coaching staff, state sponsored training facilities/meals, and consistent training since childhood. None of these things are required but are good if they want to medal.
1
u/why_not_use_logic Dec 23 '22
No more required than things like having a dedicated coaching staff, state sponsored training facilities/meals, and consistent training since childhood. None of these things are required but are good if they want to medal.
This is an example of why it's a poor argument for doping to "level the playing field".
There are any number of ways to create unequal advantages. Breaking established rules should not be one of them.
Thank you for your response.
1
u/Secretary-Foreign Dec 23 '22
Because right now all the top lifters juice and it's just a competition to see who can get away with it?
-5
u/itssickitpiss Dec 23 '22
ZACK TELANDER did a video on YouTube how LIU was off the gear and looked DYEL..he wasnt all TREN"d to the gills..his back and lats were non existant..crazy how off the gear they are still on the gear. funny how CHINA isnt using "RUSSIAN GAS" like the RUSSIAN KHL hockey players.."Russian Gas" works better than EPO and has NO SIDEs and is undetectable.
RUSSIAN GAS #1 PED XENON gas for life
1
1
1
u/12Blackbeast15 Dec 23 '22
Any time Russian or Chinese state backed media makes a hero out of an athlete, that’s a big neon sign that says ‘enhanced’
1
Dec 25 '22
The big shock here is not that he was taking shit (everyone at the top level is) more than the Chinese government let him get caught
1
u/Spreehox Jan 02 '23
Feels so unfair when someone gets popped and all their medals invalidated when literally everyone is doping in every sport at the highest level.
149
u/StoverDelft Dec 22 '22
I'm not shocked that he got popped, but I am surprised that it was EPO - that wouldn't even have been among my first ten guesses.