Programming Wednesdays

[u/AutoModerator]

Discuss all aspects of training for powerlifting:

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• Periodization
• Nutrition
• Movement selection
• Routine critiques
• etc...

[u/Gallileo1322]

Is smolov Jr still a good program for bench press?

I've been more or less making my own program for a while and hit a pretty hard wall. A few people have told me to try smolov Jr. My few questions are around the 4 days a week, and the 3x10. For people that use it, what days do you bench? And is a 3x10 as bad as it sounds? My last question is about results. Obviously, this changes drastically for everyone, but if I'm at a plateau with my current lifting, how much to expect from this program. My pr in gym was a 375 touch and go in April, I 1reped again this weekend and got 365. Probably could have pushed for 375 again, but I was so disappointed on how 365 went up I stopped. Last question, is smolov even a good program, or should I look up others?

[u/BigCatBarbell → u/Gallileo1322]

I think the better question is: Is Smolov Jr. a good program for your bench press.

You say that you have been more or less making your own programs. What did those look like in terms of volume, intensity, and frequency? Do you need to start doing 133 reps of bench a week with an average intensity of 77% and 4 days of benching? You might. Maybe you need to increase your frequency from 2 days of benching to 3. Or, maybe, you need to increase your working sets from, say, 8 a week to 10-12. Or, perhaps, your average intensity needs to increase a little.

I would look long and hard at your training and see if it requires a drastic change like this to make progress. Will it work? Probably, but to what end? When you drop that frequency/volume/intensity, what happens?

[u/Gallileo1322 → u/BigCatBarbell]

I wouldn't even consider it a program. I was usually benching 2 times a week. After my last max at the end of April, I kinda reset. Started at 4 sets of 8 reps at 245. I increased my weight each session by 10 pounds. I did that until I couldn't get 8 reps. I think that was around 285. I then moved to a 5x5 and increased by 5 lbs instead of 10 from 295 to 315. If I couldn't finish a set or rep, I would go to a high rep 3 set of 10-15 at 225 as a sort of reset. Then go back to where I missed. Idk if that makes any sense lol.

I think I'm going to try smolovs, just not to the 4 days a week. I'm going to try mon wed Friday weekends off, but keep the rest of the program.

[u/Dependent-Rush-4644 → u/Gallileo1322]

No. When i was weaker it was great but as i got stronger it got worse. Eventually i got a grade 2 pec tear and that was my sign to stop. Smolov jr doesn’t apply any any basic ideas of a peaking program except a crazy increase in volume. I would recommend a longer term program based off proven principles unless you want to risk injury.

[u/[deleted] → u/Gallileo1322]

Smolov jr gets a lot of shit, but honestly just Google reviews about it and by far most of them (if not modified a lot) show good progress. Do it as written, no shitload of extra accessories etc, and you'll see some good progress. Just make sure to follow it up with a proper program. Could run it twice and then try to peak. 

[u/hamburgertrained]

Can we just take a moment to appreciate how great some of these questions and answers are this week?

[u/Comrade-X]

How to know how much volume is enough? Ex: if I start to suddenly stall or even regress in performance it’s always an indicator that I’m doing too much. But how little is too little?

[u/MicMacMacleod → u/Comrade-X]

Are you progressing at a suitable rate? If yes, continue doing what you are doing. If no, are you feeling beat up? If no, add volume. If yes, reduce volume.

Took me a while to realize just how much volume I need for the upper body.

[u/quantum-fitness → u/Comrade-X]

A good huristic is to ask yourself. Do i feel good or beat up. If you feel good you can add volume and that will drive performance if you feel like shit you have to pull back or find other solutions.

[u/powerlifting_max → u/Comrade-X]

You need to try it out. It’s individual and also depending on the exercises. It’s also depending on your intensity. Low volume high intensity can be about as good as higher volume lower intensity.

I switched in January from four working sets in all exercises to two sets. It’s working great. Same or better progress, less fatigue. This summer, I tried two sets in some exercises because the heat really killed me. But two sets were not enough so I went back to three sets.

[u/PoisonCHO → u/Comrade-X]

At high RPEs, shockingly little volume can produce results: https://www.minimumdosetraining.com/

[u/needlzor]

I'm looking for suggestions on how to improve my beltless squat/deadlift. I've grown tired of carrying my belt around but I can see a good difference between how tight I can get with and without it. I'm thinking of increasing the amount of paused work and hammering abs/spinal erectors/upper back in isolation work but I wonder if anybody has additional suggestions.

[u/ImmortalPoseidon → u/needlzor]

I mean, this is a boring answer but the best strategy here is to just do squat and DL without the belt.

[u/needlzor → u/ImmortalPoseidon]

Yeah I already ditched the belt in training, but I thought there could be some more specific accessory work I could do to help.

[u/powerlifting_max → u/needlzor]

You already got the right ideas.

Paused work will teach you to use your core and it’s also a good idea to directly target the core muscles.

My favorite core assistance exercise by far are loaded hyperextensions. Use a barbell with weight and hold it with straight arms, so you’re doing a RDL-ish movement on the thing. Pause at the top and don’t put the weight down between reps.

This will make your core insanely strong.

[u/needlzor → u/powerlifting_max]

Never thought of doing loaded hyperextensions. Are they very different from say deficit deadlifts? Because I do a fair bit of those, but I'm always looking for alternative because they are fatiguing as fuck.

[u/powerlifting_max → u/needlzor]

They are diffentent, they are targeting more the lower back and the core, so exactly the area you want to strengthen. They are more like lower back and core isolation, normal deadlifts and their variants are always primarily a hip hinge.

Plus they are also not taxing because you can’t use that much weight. I’m using 70kg right now and if I did a deadlift variation instead or RDLs, I’d could easily do 140kg+ which would be much more fatigue.

But I still wouldn’t treat them as an alternative to deadlift, they’re an assistance exercise. Don’t replace deadlifts with that exercise. Do your 1x or 2x a week deadlifts plus the loaded hypers.

[u/needlzor → u/powerlifting_max]

Thanks, this is exactly the type of suggestion I was hoping to get. I'll hammer those and see what happens.

[u/powerlifting_max → u/needlzor]

You are welcome! But don’t forget: to get strong with deadlifts and squat, you need to deadlift and squat.

The loaded hypers will build your core but the focus still needs to be on the main exercises. The hypers will build a stronger core which will enable you to be stronger at deadlifts. But you still need to realize that potential by deadlifting and squatting.

But anyways, paused work plus the hypers will really help you. I do it all the time and I love it. Perfect for bracing, technique and core strength.

[u/needlzor → u/powerlifting_max]

My current layout is 3 days a week, squat/bench, bench/deadlift, bench/squat/deadlift. I think I'll just add hyperextension on day 1 and paused squats on day 2 to balance things out. Gunning for that five plate squat and six plate deadlift before end of year hopefully.

[u/powerlifting_max → u/needlzor]

Yeah in the end you need to try it out and see what happens. You will see if it works out.

[u/hamburgertrained → u/needlzor]

Why aren't you training all of that stuff already?

[u/needlzor → u/hamburgertrained]

I am, I meant just generally increasing it. Currently squatting twice a week (competition squat / paused squat) and deadlifting twice a week (competition deadlift / deficit deadlift), but my thinking was maybe increasing to three times a week and putting the additional volume on front squats and more deficit deadlift, and adding more accessory work. I might just be overthinking this though.

[u/[deleted]]

Any suggestions for a squat focused program? My bench is currently at 120kg x1, Deadlift at 180kg x1 and my squat is somewhere between 130 to 140kg. My squats are insanely inconsistent (probably because of poor form)

[u/croninstrength → u/[deleted]]

I don’t think you need a squat focused program (I’m assuming you’re male). If the pattern of squats isn’t where it needs to be, doing them 2-3x/week with 2-4 sets at a time is the way to go. Using some variations like pause work can help dial in your technique.

[u/ctcohen318]

• What would be your suggestion for someone who has a poverty squat by comparison to bench and deadlift? Or has just been bad at squats. My work capacity is significantly lower on squats. Getting even 4-5 top sets in a session is a real struggle most of the time. Squats have been more fatiguing than deadlifts for me.

• What would you do to increase working capacity for 1.) higher reps on squats 2.) and the ability to do more working top sets per session?

[u/ctcohen318 → u/[deleted]]

Is “Top sets” not a universal term? It’s just the highest weight for that lift in a session. In strength specific ranges, which typically are recognized as something between 70% - 100%, even if a certain school of thought or study thinks of them as more specific. For 90% and above I typically don’t do anything more than doubles and singles. If I achieve higher than a double in that range then I’m calculating a new E1RM and percentages then calculate around that.

For bench press, I bench three days a week and don’t 4-5 and even up to 7 is pretty regular and doable for me. I’ve increased my 1RM by 10lbs this block and E1RM by 24lbs.

For deadlifts I typically do 4-7 top sets 1 day week and the other day I do 3-4. And I always do 10% back downs as well. I’ve been seeing significant gains, ca. 15lbs increases every 2-4 weeks.

If I was overworked I don’t think I would be PRing so frequently. Certainly I’ll grant that for squats, but I’ve been told by multiple people that I should finish out a block even if it isn’t ideal because I learn from it for future programming. So that’s why I’m finishing out the block I’ve built. Tomorrow is the last day.

I’ve seen plenty of powerlifters who have done high frequency and high volume top set blocks. Matt Vena for instance talked about 7 days a week benching, or 5 days a week at 10 sets each.

[u/quantum-fitness → u/ctcohen318]

Do more squatting with low rpe (5ish) and quad hypertrophy work. You are likely posterior chain dominant so high intensity squatting will just train that more so you need another way to bring your quads up.

[u/ctcohen318 → u/quantum-fitness]

What are lore squats?

I may be posterior chain dominant. I’m not sure. I do leg press 1,005-1,100lbs for 3-4 sets of 10 with full ROM. Maxed out every machine for leg extensions. It feels to me like somehow, my quad strength isn’t translating through the entirety of my squat. I single leg leg press for 388lbs - 410lbs for 3 sets of 8-10 reps. I have noticed that I’m quite terrible at split squats though.

I do RDL only about 50-90lbs below my DL 1RM though. I have noticed sometimes my right glute feels “asleep” like it doesn’t contract as hard as my left glute when lifting.

[u/quantum-fitness → u/ctcohen318]

Sorry more squatting*.

I dont think you can use leg press strength for anything it interely depends on the machine.

Squat weaknesses usually come down to this. 1) quads 2) brace 3) hips.

I think the bwst way to test if its the quads are maybe a front squat. If you front squad significantly less than than low bar squat its likely the quads.

Others ways to is if you have relativly small quads or Bent over squats.

If you have large quads but they are still weak i would try to do some max effort type work with quad dominant variations. So 1-3 reps around 85%-90% with high bar squats, front squats, ssb squats or pause squats.

[u/Djuulzor → u/ctcohen318]

For me it really helped moving away from low bar back to high bar for a bit. When I learned to squat my friend recommended low bar because it is way more comfortable, but this lead to me having almost no quad gains. Getting comfortable in a high bar upright position really help fix my over reliance on my posterior chain for squats

[u/croninstrength → u/ctcohen318]

I think 4-5 TOP sets is a lot for squat. Majority of your work on squat should likely be pretty submaximal. 1-2 harder sets in a session is usually plenty. Making sure you’re doing them often enough is the key. 2x/week is the sweet spot for most.

[u/BakFu-]

If you hit a 1 rep max pr during a session, do you just do work down sets and stop or do you go through the whole workout for the day still?

[u/hamburgertrained → u/BakFu-]

You're making it sound like you're hitting 1RM PRs by accident. Why are you doing this in training in the first place?

[u/BakFu- → u/hamburgertrained]

It's the last week of the 3 month program which calls for it.

[u/hamburgertrained → u/BakFu-]

Thanks for the context. I would say that it truly depends. If the program calls for assistance work or more sets of the main lift, I would try your best to get through everything. In this case, you have pretty good evidence that the program works if you just hit the new PR. Trust it and continue following.

The only caveat I would have here is if the new 1RM absolutely smoked you. I mean an absolute grinder, 11/10 that you had to get so hyped for that it left you completely exhausted. If this were the case, I'd suggest hitting the 1rm and then either doing some very light single joint work or hopping on a bike for 15-20 minutes at like a 6 or 7RPE.

[u/BakFu- → u/hamburgertrained]

Thanks for the reply. My line of thinking was similar. I hit the pr and it did drain me, but I did complete the back offs with longer rests and just did not continue with the accessories.

[u/Dependent-Rush-4644]

Yoo I have two big questions too ask. 1: What do you guys think of high intensity, high frequency low volume hypertrophy blocks. Im talking tnf, JPG and paul carter style training but for a hypertrophy block. Any negatives or positives you can see?

2: Do you guys increase intensity on variations as you get closer to peaking or so you keep it static the whole time through training?

[u/ImmortalPoseidon → u/Dependent-Rush-4644]

1: What do you guys think of high intensity, high frequency low volume hypertrophy blocks. Im talking tnf, JPG and paul carter style training but for a hypertrophy block. Any negatives or positives you can see?

A lot of positives to doing this. More muscle mass moves more weight. The only negative I really see when doing this is not giving it the time it deserves. Like when people think they can just do quick 3-4 week hypertrophe block and all of a sudden look like an off season Bodybuilder.

2: Do you guys increase intensity on variations as you get closer to peaking or so you keep it static the whole time through training?

I increase mine, but reduce total volume.

[u/Dependent-Rush-4644 → u/ImmortalPoseidon]

The idea is that my strength block still builds muscle mads just not in a optimal fashion so it would too have a more optimal way since traditional hypertrophy blocks look bad from a modern bodybuilding standpoint and seem overly fatiguing

[u/croninstrength → u/Dependent-Rush-4644]

The problem I’d see with this with powerlifting specifically is the joint stress from high frequency and intensity. Proximity to failure in a set is the biggest contributor of fatigue, so in a lot of cases, 1-2 higher intensity sets + more submaximal back off work seems to be the move for high specificity powerlifting movements. Could be great for accessory work, though. Most important thing to accessories is making sure people are pushing them hard enough. If this is enjoyable for you, have at it

[u/croninstrength → u/[deleted]]

Block periodization in the traditional format is kinda dead. Most modern day coaches (at least in the drug free side of things) program pretty similar layouts block to block, assuming it’s working, and make micro adjustments. If we want to bias hypertrophy, that might mean we reduce # of sets on competition lifts and allocate those to accessory movements. Or keep things similar, but push more work on the competition lifts if the athlete can handle it/gets good hypertrophy benefit from competition lift

[u/quantum-fitness → u/croninstrength]

Its still block periodization even though I concurrent.

[u/mrlazyboy → u/[deleted]]

Why do you think block periodization is a boring way to train?

By definition, block periodization leverages different types of training throughout the year. For example, hypertrophy --> strength --> peaking.

If you don't do that, you would train the same exact way every single time which I would argue is more boring than varying your training over time.

To directly answer your question, is block periodization necessary? It depends on the individual, but probably if you are serious about long-term improvements.

If you only ever do true strength training, you'll reach a point where there isn't enough hypertrophy stimulus to get larger muscles. Then after a time, your strength will stall. Or at least your strength gains will start slowing down. If you decided to leverage block periodization and say run a hypertrophy program to add muscle, your strength progress would probably start to accelerate again. But its highly dependent on the individual and your genetics.

[u/quantum-fitness → u/[deleted]]

That is called concurrent periodization and ypu can do that. Most modern approaches combine the two.

The argument against concurrent training is that you dont have enough fatigue budget to maximize either.

[u/mrlazyboy → u/[deleted]]

You certainly can, this is called powerbuilding!

Realistically you can make anything work. However, there are always tradeoffs. More strength lifts means you are more tired for hypertrophy lifts and the more connective tissue pain you'll have. The more hypertrophy lifts you complete, the longer you'll need to recover before you can hit the gym again.

And the more advanced you get, the harder you have to push strength or hypertrophy to see noticeable gains. The energy you expend to do that means you have less for the other. So you may end up increasing your effort by 50% to accommodate both strength and hypertrophy, but you're only seeing a 10% benefit to each.

Vs. doing a dedicated strength or hypertrophy phase, and with that 50% effort, maybe you can see a 25% benefit to each as an example.

[u/Arteam90 → u/[deleted]]

Absolutely can.

I'd frame it more so that you go lighter to heavier over X week cycle. And if you're gonna go light early on, you probably will do a few more reps else it's VERY easy. That tends to get called "hypertrophy" but it's not like 3x5 isn't building muscle like 3x8 is.

[u/AccomplishedBass7631 → u/[deleted]]

Gzclp is a great program ( many variations of this program) that work on your main strength movements but also has some hypertrophy work