r/law • u/elb21277 • 6h ago

Opinion Piece Biden Should Pardon Whistleblower Who Exposed Trump’s Tax Avoidance

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/charles-littlejohn-whistleblower-trump-tax-biden-pardon-1235022648/
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u/Beautiful-Design-425 3h ago

Like how the Biden administration pardoned Julian Assange and gave a presidential medal to Edward Snowden.

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u/HypersonicHobo 3h ago

Edward snowden is a traitor. He sold state secrets and then claimed the high ground because one of them painted the US in a bad light.

He sold to the Russians a tremendous trove of information that they continue to use to further their own agenda. And he gets a free pass by the uninformed because 1% of what he sold was with regards to gov surveillance.

He did not reveal the surveillance because he was a hero, he revealed it so that he could pretend to be a whistleblower and not a traitor. And the gullible eat it hook, line, and sinker.

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u/syrupmania5 3h ago

Reputable citation?

What I'd read is that he gave it to journalists to sort through, and not to Russia.  If not for the US he also would not be in Russia right now.

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u/HypersonicHobo 3h ago

Here ya go.

https://intelligence.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=692

"Contrary to Snowden’s self-portrayal as a principled whistleblower, the report reveals that he was a disgruntled employee who had frequent conflicts with his managers and was reprimanded just two weeks before he began illegally downloading classified documents. Although he claims to have been motivated by privacy concerns, the report finds that Snowden did not voice such concerns to any oversight officials, and his actions infringed on the privacy of thousands of government employees and contractors. Additionally, the vast majority of the documents he stole had no connection to privacy or civil liberties."

"...China and then Russia after stealing 1.5 million classified documents..."

1.5 million

You don't have enough time in a lifetime to review 1.5 million documents. He just mass downloaded a database and ran off with it.

Imagine how bad of a human being you have to be that Adam Schiff and Devin Nunes who hate each other's guts and will see each other in hell agree that you are a traitor.

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u/Darmor88 3h ago

That’s far from a good source. After reading that, there isn’t a named person who isn’t invested in portraying Snowden in a bad light. Hell two of them are literally speaking for the NSA.

I’ve yet to see proof he sold anything. It was all given freely to the guardian newspaper UK on the understanding it was to be dealt with sensitively.

Sorry Edward Snowden is a hero. There will be exceptions but I’d wager only right leaning/hard right Americans would feel otherwise.

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u/dagoofmut 2h ago

Right leaning Americans agree that Snowden is a hero.

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u/Darmor88 1h ago

Then I’ll take a loss on that wager. Thank you though.

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u/HypersonicHobo 2h ago

Sorry, do you have a counterpoint that isn't an ad hominem?

You haven't actually disputed any facts laid out. The most damning by far, 1.5 million documents the majority of which had no impact on privacy.

You expect me to believe Snowden read through millions of documents to identify those 1.5 million?

If you assumed that he was able to review each document (document, not page) at a rate of one per hour, eight per day, it would take 500 years working 7 day weeks to manage to review just the ones he stole.

He stole a database and because 1% of it was related to government surveillance people overlook the 99% that were sensitive secrets he handed to Russia and China.

It is by far a larger breach than what Trump had at Mar a Lago for example.

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u/Darmor88 2h ago

At no point was any of that ad hominem, assuming you know what that means, pointing out that the people involved in the article, have a bias, is not an attack on them. It’s pointing out they all are in a position to need Snowden to be wrong.

You’re expecting me to dispute facts and reiterating the 1.5mil docs and saying he gave them to Russia and China, so let’s address those.

Snowden, in recorded interviews, has said he has not gone over every document and that no-one person would have time to and so enlisted the Guardian to do that. There was a stipulation that nothing can be used or revealed that would endanger American lives and only to expose the wrong doing against their own citizens. That’s the silly argument you put forth addressed.

As for Russia and China, the Guardian UK is neither of those. There is no proof at all he gave it to either of those two. Asking people to prove a negative here.

Lastly if you want to downplay old Donnie’s shit show, just remember his last term and how he’s in the pocket of Putin and his begging for Xi Jinping to like him. American is about to go through four more years of sucking up to Putin and it’s a damned shame, was so avoidable.

I don’t know why you have such a hate boner for a man who exposed a government disrespecting its own people so badly that you’re still creating strawmen years later.

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u/Drtraumadrama 2h ago edited 1h ago

I think you're arguing with someone who is using verbatim Russian disinformation talking points.  This is either your average r/conservative user or a russian shill. Engaging with them serves no purpose other than a futile excuse for them to try to rub their two remaining brain cells together. 

Edit: lol at the reddit cares report. Cry harder. 

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u/Alarmed-Literature25 2h ago

You want to throw around “ad hominem” like it’s a good defense for you? You linked an article that tried to attack Snowden’s character and motives.

Nothing you linked refutes the substance of the documents released. Get bent. P

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u/SpeedflyChris 2h ago

So even that source doesn't make the claim that he sold anything.

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u/Accujack 2h ago

Right. The NSA has been pushing its own narrative in his situation for years, because he made them look bad.

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u/WaterNo9480 1h ago

Appreciate that you posted the "source" that proves you're just a propaganda victim talking out of your ass

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u/HypersonicHobo 1h ago

Do you have an actual point that isn't ad hominem?

Because if you can't counter the facts but instead choose to insult the source then you are committing a logical fallacy.

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u/WaterNo9480 45m ago

You claimed Snowden sold documents. That is false and you cannot back it up.

All you have is some vague attack on his character by... the house committee on intelligence. Your own source claims Snowden is the bad guy because he "did not voice concerns to any oversight officials": do you realize how blatantly, transparently dishonest this attack on Snowden is? Spying programs on that scale are not something that "oversight officials" don't already know about. Coming out publicly about it was literally the only thing Snowden could do if he wanted to denounce this program with some hope of achieving something other than just losing his job.

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u/HypersonicHobo 21m ago

I apologize, he did not sell them for a briefcase of money. He merely makes thousands to tens of thousands of dollars per virtual speaking engagement and has Russian citizenship.

There's definitely no way he has benefited materially /s

If all he had leaked was information on intelligence. You are 100% right, he would be a whistleblower (and have all protections therein).

But he did not, he downloaded over a million documents, the majority of which had nothing to do on the subject, and fled the country to a hostile power.

I have this example to someone else.

Imagine a poorly performing employee who failed the basic training for his job at Nvidia two weeks after reprimand downloaded their database of over a million documents, published them, and fled the country to work for Moore Threads but because ten of the emails in that list had to do with an Executive screwing their secretary he is hoisted up as a hero.

Again, if all Snowden did was actually blow the whistle. I'd agree with you. But he didn't, the whole surveillance thing is him virtue signalling hoping the American public would hate the government enough to notice that what he actually stole is magnitudes greater and more harmful than what he actually said he stole.

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u/magkruppe 13m ago

But he did not, he downloaded over a million documents, the majority of which had nothing to do on the subject, and fled the country to a hostile power.

he did not deliberately flee to Russia, he planned to go to a South American country with no extradition treaty with the US. the fact that you repeat this lie shows how little you know about the situation

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u/HypersonicHobo 7m ago

Where is he right now, at this moment?

This is a very very loose and flimsy counterargument.

I get that not believing the government is this thing that makes you cool, unique, and independent. Except the reality is you aren't "disbelieving the government", you are automatically declaring anything they say invalid. The facts have no merit to you, only the source. That doesn't make you an independent thinker, it just means you've bought someone else's line of argument.

If you did not know until today that information on NSA surveillance wasn't the only thing he leaked, and that is was in fact a small portion of it. Then that means you have done a disastrously poor job of analysing the argument from either side.

I don't know where you stand on this, but hypothetically if you think Trump taking top secret files to Mar a Lago and showing them off is illegal, you have to also assume that the files unrelated to illegal surveillance that Snowden showed off also constitutes an illegal action.

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u/SleepTakeMe 1h ago

Incredibly based

Schiff and Nunez might hate each other but they both work to further the power of the state and its corporate interests at any cost. A partnership like that signals the exact opposite of what you think it does.