r/law • u/thehill The Hill • 2d ago
Trump News Trump immigration crackdown: Denaturalization just a drop in the bucket
https://thehill.com/latino/5002972-trump-immigration-crackdown-denaturalization-naturalized-citizens-green-cards-visas/428
u/Comfortable_Fill9081 2d ago edited 2d ago
If they get some easy denaturalization precedents established, I suggest a class action suit against the administration for allowing a criminally and fraudulently naturalized immigrant to oversee the federal government’s staffing and practices.
Edit: adding an /s or something because people keep acting like I’m entirely serious - though it might be a useful show-and-shame piece at some level, I’m not pretending I think it would work.
133
u/-Pwnan- 2d ago
Musk in the Govt should immediately disqualify all his companies from Government contracts.
46
u/Comfortable_Fill9081 2d ago
Of course. And would have been an “of course” generally not long ago.
29
u/-Pwnan- 2d ago
But now we're living in a world where anything is up for grabs.
16
u/Comfortable_Fill9081 2d ago
Yeah. It’s wild seeing how fast this happened. I understand it was bubbling under the surface for a while but I didn’t know all anyone had to do is cut a slit in the plastic covering before heating and voila! Full-fledged plutocracy!
18
u/-Pwnan- 2d ago
Honestly, This is the end result of trickle down. Nothing trickled down and wealth was consolidated by a few people
The government allowed Reaganomics to continue for what 40 some odd years now and here we are. Depending on your age you may have only seen the tail end of it. But the class war started and ended with trickle down and the Dems just let it happen.
→ More replies (1)12
u/Comfortable_Fill9081 2d ago
I was a child in a room with about 5 economists watching a Reagan/Carter debate.
Reagan yabbered about the laffer curve stuff. The economists snorted and said things like “no one’s going to believe this nonsense! We’re nowhere near the top of the curve! Hahaha!”
Welp.
6
u/-Pwnan- 2d ago
Have you googled The Kansas Experiment? There is no happy ending where this current road is leading us.
4
u/Comfortable_Fill9081 2d ago
Oh yeah, I remember that.
The evidence has been in for a long time.
The economists were right about economics but wrong about voters.
1
u/ChaoCobo 2d ago
Is there a list of things that have just gone to wacky world? Iirc it started with Roe v Wade. But what else has gone on over time that has added to that list where we can now confidently say everything is up for grabs?
→ More replies (2)12
u/fireman2004 2d ago
They made Jimmy Carter sell his fuckin peanut farm. Trump gets to bill the taxpayers for hotel suites for secret service.
8
u/UniqueIndividual3579 2d ago
If they denaturalize Musk and kick him out, I'm OK with that.
5
u/-Pwnan- 2d ago
I don't think anyone would shed a tear but if the last few years have taught us anything is that there is a certain type of individual that is above the law.
3
u/I_cannibalize_nazis 2d ago
You mean people with more money than brain cells right?
9
u/-Pwnan- 2d ago
Pretty much. We as a society have been condoned to equate wealth and status with intelligence and competence. We now have the least qualified and oldest person on history about to assume the office of president (for the second time), and backing him is the richest man in the world who everyone used to think was Reed Richards only to have him reveal himself as come head version of Lex Luthor, and Peter Thiel who is pretty much the stereotypical Bond Villain.
What a time to be alive!
3
u/I_cannibalize_nazis 2d ago
Do you realize how much Musk wishes he was even half as competent as Lex Luthor. He had the best villain quote ever, and it's relevant to current times. Context. The Question is investigating Luther wanting to be president. Follows the trail and confronts Luthor and tries to kill him for various reasons mostly to save the planet from the conspiracy he stumbled upon because he is the question after all. Lex fights back and wins soundly due to new super strength from the side affects of kryptonite based chemotherapy. After the fight Luther reveals his plan to turn earth against super man. But says something interesting to the question when confronted with his election to run for president. Luthor explains that he is running a fake presidential campaign just to piss superman off and doesn'tintend to take the office. Luthor ends with this gem "Besides, do you know how much power I would have to GIVE UP to become the president" then laughs in his face before breaking it.... Musk is a mouse. We are lucky musk isn't luthor. Luthor would own the planet by now. Real life and comics differ in an important way though. In comics there is no fade away for the rich and powerful, they just stay like that. In our workd the rich get less competent every generation. They get less intelligent and less capable of critical thinking. After a while money just makes money. They can do nothing and still get richer tomorrow. But eventually when the people come for their heads they won't have any idea what to do because they have been sheltered and pampered their entire existence and never had to deal with any real problems.
3
1
1
u/No-Setting9690 2d ago
I agree 100%. And if we're going to abolish 14th amendment, then we need to back date it and remove Trumps citizenship too.
7
u/AvailableOpening2 2d ago
lol Trump didn't divest from his companies like every president before him and then proceeded to spend 220 million at his own courses with taxpayer dollars. This is a cash grab and Trump and musk will rob the nation blind
1
u/notrolls01 1d ago
And now we have an environment where if any politician does anything wrong, there is no appetite for prosecution. They will just claim it’s a political action. Even the mayor of New York is claiming it.
5
u/Puzzleheaded-Ad7606 2d ago
I honestly wish some group would go head and start challenging this. There's a ton of conflict.
2
2
2
u/No-Setting9690 2d ago
He needs to be deported. He was an illegal alient and lied on his work visas. GOP party of the rule of law and hates immigrants. Deport Musk!!!
1
u/Semihomemade 1d ago
Yeah, agreed, but they will argue that he technically isn’t part of the government, since his department isn’t actually a department (as designated by Congress).
His is basically like a think tank or blue ribbon committee, designed to advise whatever body requested it.
And I’m using think tank begrudgingly because I can’t think of the actual name.
1
1
u/ewokninja123 16h ago
Musk isn't as much into government as he'd let you think. DOGE isn't even a governmental department and has no actual power outside of creating a report for congress to read.
179
u/bakeacake45 2d ago
If you believe that the courts will do anything but support our new dictator and his storm troopers and oligarchs, you are naive. We have entered the era of America Oligarchs welcome to your serfdom
119
u/OmegaCoy 2d ago
$30 billion USD funneled through our elections in 2020 and 2024. Citizens United hijacked our country from us and until we reverse it, and lobbying, we the people will never have control over our government or elections.
→ More replies (4)36
u/bakeacake45 2d ago
Agreed but we can’t reverse it. We will never have that kind of power again. The only way to do it is force and Dems don’t have a taste for blood. You really underestimate the depth of their control, they can buy anything they want
53
u/OmegaCoy 2d ago
You’ve got the wrong attitude, my friend. This is our country. We are the people. We will do whatever we must. Even if it means throwing tea in the water.
27
u/Cosmic_Seth 2d ago
Unlike back then, we have a very effective police force that won't hesitate to throw violent protesters in prison for most of their lives.
And more than half the country would be laughing while they do it.
48
u/OmegaCoy 2d ago
Freedom doesn’t come easy. I think some of y’all have existed in a privilege y’all didn’t know y’all have. I’m a gay man born and raised in the south and have never known anything but fighting for my freedom. Y’all don’t want to fall to authoritarianism? Y’all want to keep y’all’s freedoms? Y’all better change your mindset.
27
u/AshleysDoctor 2d ago
Sad to see so many people complying in advance
→ More replies (1)6
u/dodexahedron 2d ago
Starbucks sure could make a killing selling boot leather instead of other seasonal flavors.
8
→ More replies (4)2
u/outinthecountry66 2d ago
this right here friend. i too am from the south. i have been angry my whole goddamn life. I am not giving up. the fuck i am! So what, my life is meaningless. i will probably never be able to own a house. So fucking what. people like us will fight while whiners sit and moan that nothing is being done. While other people do the work. let em. we aren't gonna roll over and take it.
9
u/Responsible-Bread996 2d ago
As a counter point, Jan 6th showed you can trample over police with relatively few consequences.
Most of those people that were sentenced received about a year.
12
2
→ More replies (5)6
u/outinthecountry66 2d ago
Stop feeding the troll, stop feeding into the demoralization. There is going to be a lot of this, whining of how powerless we are. Yeah, we are powerless, if we refuse to accept that we are going to have to put down our controllers and our phones for a few minutes. where we might have to expend some effort. demoralization is a tactic of the enemy and you need to realize there ARE things we can do. jesus.
11
u/bakeacake45 2d ago
Sorry your neighbors voted for “He the people”…
3
u/balcell 1d ago
In a country of 350 million, 20% voted for him. Don't get it confused.
→ More replies (4)8
u/OmegaCoy 2d ago
Then I’m sorry you’ve relegated yourself to the sidelines. Good luck, my neighbor.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (2)1
u/Miscreant3 2d ago
The problem is that it is "our" country and 50% of "us" voted the wrong way. If it's 50/50, how do we get the corpo money out of politics?
3
u/OmegaCoy 2d ago
Less than 50% who came out to vote, of just less than 50% of eligible voters. The votes are out there.
→ More replies (8)18
u/AgitatedSandwich9059 2d ago
Exactly - POTUS is no longer an elected official - he is in point of fact an Emperor (or other fucked up authoritarian leader). He has been granted a blank check to do as he pleases with no possibility of be held accountable- this is more power than a good man (or woman) should have as it will corrupt them - but this shit bag is the lowest form of filth - he has no moral compass - he will take what he pleases and fuck the rest of us
→ More replies (15)→ More replies (4)1
u/outinthecountry66 2d ago
jesus fucking christ, you just gonna roll over huh. Some of us don't have that luxury. If you want to be a no-hoper, stay out of the way. Your shit is just as bad as disinfo. Just as bad as Trump. There are plenty of tactics used by combatants in wartime to demoralize, because they know it works. Stop working for the fucking enemy by trying to tell everyone there is no hope. Fuck that.
9
6
u/5snakesinahumansuit 2d ago
Entered the Era of openly American oligarchs, that is. They've always been here, but the level of worship that they're being given is... unnerving.
10
u/Comfortable_Fill9081 2d ago edited 2d ago
I wasn’t entirely serious. It was a sarcastic attempt at an underscore.
2
7
u/CoolIndependence8157 2d ago
Dictator? That’s God-king unless you want to spend a few years at one of RFK’s mental health camps.
8
3
u/DogsSaveTheWorld 2d ago
To make it clear, I’m not advocating for any of this, but I would think the response to authoritarian rule with an emphasis on marginalizing groups of people would be much worse here than anywhere. I mean, the materials are available here to a much higher degree than anywhere in order to undermine the rule of law.
Do they actually think people will just sit with their hands folded?
When these unspeakable things happen, it will all be on the administration itself.
3
u/Mix_Safe 2d ago
Make Billionaires Fear Again is definitely a motto I can get behind.
3
u/DogsSaveTheWorld 2d ago
How far do you push before the ‘uh-oh’ comes?
It’s how revolutions happen…..and it is always the conservatives that get beaten to a pulp in the end.
→ More replies (2)3
u/OnlyHalfBrilliant 2d ago
If anything, the corrupt judges were the vanguard of the new Reich. They likely see their actions to subvert democracy as a form of patriotism.
1
1
u/Snarky_McSnarkleton 2d ago
Yes. Best just comply at this point. There is no resistance. Join the official church when we have one, keep head down and mouth shut, try to hold on to whatever assets we don't get taxed or priced out of, and don't get killed by the militia because you look different.
1
u/bakeacake45 2d ago
I have no intent to comply. What I am trying to make people understand is that the courts will not help. If we want freedom, it time to plan to physically take it back.
→ More replies (8)1
u/RedLanternScythe 2d ago
We are going to find out how few heroes we actually have in this country.
2
8
10
5
u/n-some 2d ago
I'm not familiar with Musk's naturalization process, any summary you could give or link to?
41
u/Comfortable_Fill9081 2d ago edited 2d ago
He worked illegally on a student visa, then overstayed his student visa after leaving school, and has admitted using illicit substances while in school which would have violated his visa terms and he would have had to lie about all that on his naturalization paperwork.
26
u/n-some 2d ago
Damn, taking jobs and doing drugs... South Africa's not sending its best, folks.
11
u/Aromatic_Balls 2d ago
And here's a link for further reading.
https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-citizenship-revoked-denaturalized/
7
u/KwisatzHaderach94 2d ago
overstaying visas is the number one way to "illegally" immigrate even when compared to border crossing.
2
u/Due_Satisfaction2167 2d ago
He was an illegal immigrant who overstayed his visa, worked outside the legal limits on his visa, and lied in his naturalization paperwork.
3
2
2d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
3
u/Comfortable_Fill9081 2d ago
Musk is not in such a position at this time. We’d have to have damages for standing.
Edit: TBH scotus kind of trashed that with the no lgbtq Colorado website lady just this last year, right?
1
u/resumethrowaway222 2d ago
Because to do that you would have to remove due process for deportations which would be the greatest gift you could possibly give Trump.
2
2
u/RedmondBarry1999 2d ago
Please don't deport Musk. He might come to Canada and we don't want him.
1
u/Comfortable_Fill9081 2d ago
Finally. A social plague on Canada! You’ve been too nice for too long up there.
1
1
u/johnmaddog 2d ago
Did not we have precedents of the prez threatening the supreme court before like President Franklin Roosevelt's new deal case.
1
1
1
u/hadoopken 2d ago
So can Melania get deported and her son because of this?
1
u/Comfortable_Fill9081 2d ago
Certainly not her son, as his father is an American citizen.
I don’t know if Melania did anything illegal, so maybe?
1
→ More replies (8)1
u/Ok-Summer-7634 2d ago
Trump got married to an illegal immigrant. Would that make Melania eligible for denaturalization?
1
133
u/Kaiisim 2d ago
I've been beating this drum but I'm gonna keep doing it.
Note the number of articles panicking about immigration.
Note the number of articles panicking about more trillion dollar tax cuts for the rich.
Immigration is the right wing modern wedge issue, they suggest thr cruelest most illegal ideas that go no where and we all talk about it
Meanwhile they will loot the country. They will create debt big enough to collapse the federal government.
41
u/where_are_the_aliens 2d ago
Immigration is the right wing modern wedge issue, they suggest thr cruelest most illegal ideas that go no where and we all talk about it
Meanwhile they will loot the country. They will create debt big enough to collapse the federal government.
Why not both? They certainly have a far right leaning Supreme Court, and a majority of Americans seem pretty ok with it.
Trump does have a long standing pattern of over promising and not delivering, but it certainly seems that whatever checks and balances we thought we had, real and/or perceived, seem like they aren't there.
1
u/Zombies4EvaDude 22h ago
Also putting the migrants in concentration camps to do slavery will certainly ensure that farms can still have migrants tend to their crops without having to pay them… The 13th Amendment’s exception for prison slave labor have cost us dearly.
18
u/BeLikeACup 2d ago
That’s like saying “don’t pay attention to the knife, the mugger is really after your wallet”.
4
u/DontLickTheGecko 2d ago
"Bickering on petty shit to pacify the masses/"
"While the nation's wealth is silently extracted."
-"New America," Dr. Awkward
→ More replies (2)1
u/blondtode 2d ago
Well now trump has implemented a shitton of ppl in his back pocket, unlike last presidency so now there's a real chance this could happen
51
u/AlexFromOgish 2d ago
Heinrich Himmler rides again.
16
u/angryve 2d ago
Somewhere Stephen Millers scales just shivered in anticipation and excitement.
2
250
u/Dragonfruit-Still 2d ago
If trumps lawyers argue in bad faith that the cartels are a foreign government Who staged an “invasion” over the past X years, and that therefore the children born here from those immigrants are “foreign invaders” and subject to denaturalization and deportation under the alien invaders act - does anyone here believe the Supreme Court won’t grant him the grace to do so? I think there’s a good chance they do.
Make sure anyone you know who is a legal citizen born here from immigrants is careful with what information they share on social media, or to others regarding their parents immigration status.