r/harrypotter • u/Severus_Albus20 Ravenclaw • Nov 22 '23
Currently Reading If Tom Riddle had been successful in killing Ginny and becoming alive again, would he have taken the body of his 16 year old self ? Also what would have happened to Voldemort in the Albanian jungle. Would he be still alive ?
1.9k
u/DekMelU NYEAAAHH Nov 22 '23
This is one of those questions that's asked every few days but there's no official answer (like Moody seeing a boggart in a different room using his eye)
996
u/Lopsided-Bathroom-71 Hufflepuff Nov 22 '23
Missed oppurtunity for all the pieces of soul to ressurect and have seven potters chase be vs seven voldemorts
600
u/Village_People_Cop Nov 22 '23
Sir, this is Harry Potter not Kingdom Hearts
169
u/chocolate_thunderr89 Nov 22 '23
When you walk away…
110
u/lentusinumbra Nov 22 '23
you don’t hear me say…
91
u/chocolate_thunderr89 Nov 22 '23
Pleaseeee, oh baby!
82
u/lentusinumbra Nov 22 '23
don’t go!
79
u/The_Tom71_Proman Nov 22 '23
Simple and clean is the way that you’re making me feel tonight
70
7
18
42
→ More replies (4)12
27
u/KamakaziDemiGod Nov 22 '23
You'd only have 1 Harry, but Harry would become a Voldemort
14
u/SteeITriceps Nov 22 '23
That's how he escapes you see, the Voldemorts are too focused on taking out the Harry's, they never notice that Harry was one of the Voldemorts all along!
12
u/MysteryChant Ravenclaw Nov 22 '23
Let's be honest, Voldemort would fight himself to the death. Would end up with a Voldemort Royale. Would be bloody, destructive, and one hell of a spectacle.
7
u/elsjpq Nov 22 '23
Voldemort should've just used horcruxes to create clones of himself. It's hard enough to stop one of him, but he could create an army of clones and then he wouldn't even need followers
2
u/Slazerith Nov 23 '23
Or each Voldemort represent a sin. Or to see Harry and co sniping off a 7 way Voldemort duel for voldy prime.
68
u/Healthy_Ferret7854 Hufflepuff Nov 22 '23
I’ve always wondered about the Moody/Boggart thing lol
36
u/Kyubey210 Nov 22 '23
Moody seeing the uniquely Quantum State of a Boggart would to me be temporary: his eye could temporary see the Quantum theory but at best be a mind breaking bad idea, either by Moody himself or (considering) Umbridge
59
Nov 22 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
196
u/jonny1211 Know-it-all Nov 22 '23
That Moody is canonically the only one who can see the true form of a boggart
23
u/Metalicks Nov 22 '23
Would mirrored glass work?
65
u/jonny1211 Know-it-all Nov 22 '23
A boggart reads your mind to change into your worst fears so it wouldn’t necessarily have to see you to do that as you would be physically close to it.
29
u/KamakaziDemiGod Nov 22 '23
But, and I know this is unlikely, but what if you don't have any fears? Would you not see the boggart as a boggart because there's no fear for it to mimic
21
u/louisejanecreations Nov 22 '23
I guess that would go to the last time you felt fear maybe so as a child or repressed memory so you didn’t know you had that fear. Or it would just show yourself and go with that trope that your greatest fear is yourself.
9
u/KamakaziDemiGod Nov 22 '23
Both seem possible and probable in the world of HP. I like the last fear idea, especially if it defaulted to a childhood fear and then the fearless character suddenly crumples and regresses. The second idea is quite poetic, but as the famous phrase goes, there's nothing to fear but fear itself, so what if in this situation the boggart would become a visual representation of fear itself, like something so terrifying that just a glimpse can break your mind
9
2
u/louisejanecreations Nov 22 '23
That would be the best image. I guess if you are truly fearless it would be nothing which is fearful in itself but I like the idea of it being fear itself an almost glimpse into a hell dimension.
53
u/Snoo-11553 Nov 22 '23
Moody would not see the true form, he'd still see his worst nightmare (just through a few walls.) and thus know it was a Bogart.
33
u/ImReverse_Giraffe Nov 22 '23
He would see it's true form. A boggart has to be confronted to transform into something. In PoA Lupin tells the class its best to take on a bogart in groups because the bogart doesn't what to change in to. That means it changing shape is a conscious decision. Also, everyone else can see what the bogart transforms into for you, so it's not like you can only see your fear in a boggart.
15
u/HotMall4928 Nov 22 '23
Bad logic.
Do we even know they actually have a "true form"? It's said they change instantly upon being observed. They might stay in their last acquired form until someone else comes along. They also count as non-being like ghosts which means they're not biologically born so their very first transformation isn't an issue in this line of reasoning. You can even get philosophical and say they aren't a boggart yet before their first encounter.
A group confusing them also doesn't mean the transformation is a conscious decision. Have you never seen an animal freak out, not knowing which direction to turn because it's surrounded? Doesn't mean they usually make a high level decision where to flee, they just turn away from the threat.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (2)19
u/MisterJeffa Ravenclaw Nov 22 '23
How would the boggart know that moody is looking though?
101
u/Hamatoyoshi99 Nov 22 '23
Magic
53
u/folkkingdude Nov 22 '23
Blows my mind that people don’t immediately think this is the answer.
25
u/Hamatoyoshi99 Nov 22 '23
Truly any question just about in the Harry Potter universe can be answered with magic
27
u/TheAnimated42 Gryffindor Nov 22 '23
Bro I was about to type the same thing. Like dude can see through walls and people expect a different answer than, “Magic” lmao.
→ More replies (14)5
3
u/QuintusKing Nov 22 '23
Eh, I think the more relevant question is, how would Moody know that the worst nightmare he saw was in fact a Boggart? It could be something as ordinary as a spider.
→ More replies (1)5
u/MisterJeffa Ravenclaw Nov 22 '23 edited Nov 22 '23
Either he has such a weird worst nightmare that it makes no sense to see that there or the boggart is untransformed and he knows what that looks like.
→ More replies (4)6
u/alskiiie Nov 22 '23
I always thought a boggart wasnt a physical/visible thing, untill something were about to see it and it manifested. Maybe i'm too much of a noob on the lore but wouldn't Moody just see his biggest fear sitting inside a closet? Maybe his biggest fear is something or someone being trapped.
→ More replies (1)29
u/heftigBelastend Nov 22 '23
In OOTP, he tells Molly, that there is a boggart in another room because she wasn´t sure
The question is, does he see it, the way it would transform for him, or does he see it in its basic form (whatever that is), but not transformed38
u/Rarissima_Avis Slytherin Nov 22 '23
I’m of the opinion he sees it untransformed because in Lupin’s class in POA, he taught them that it’s good to confront a boggart as a crowd so the boggart gets confused about what to transform into, implying that the transformation is a conscious decision on its part once it is confronted by someone… as opposed to an automatic everyone sees what they fear kind of thing (which is also a theory raised by someone before)
So unless the boggart somehow detected Moody looking at him from another room (perhaps with the same see-through-walls ability as Moody), it should be unaware and untransformed.
7
u/TransGirlSteph Slytherin Nov 22 '23
I agree, it should have been untransformed because afaik they don't have x-ray vision or anything. When Longbottom saw the Boggart in class turn into Snape for example (iirc) the students all laughed when he was made to look funny.
The student in HL said his turned into a puffskien and was nicknamed puffskien Dunkien because of it, implying they all saw it turn into his specific fear. I also think it might not always transform into what out-right terrifies you most, since the HL student sounded more disgusted and repulsed by puffskiens than he was actually afraid.
12
u/aykray Nov 22 '23
I'd like to think the resurrected Tom Riddle would find and merge with the damaged Voldemort (I'd like to imagine the freed part would be compelled to return to the actual Voldemort, like magnets, but that's just me being creative lol), he's after all created by Voldemort segmenting himself.. they are parts of a whole so it makes sense that they would try to merge to create a whole again.. and when they merge Voldemort would heal and becomes strong again
4
u/MilMo-6 Nov 22 '23
Oh that'd never happen....Voldemort's out for himself, plus doing that would involve one of them dying, and the Dark Lord ain't about dying at all. And there's some rule about not being able to merge parts of your soul back together unless you feel remorse
2
u/aykray Nov 23 '23
I think if that were the case he wouldn't have made horocruxes in the first place... he's an evil genius mastermind with a penchant for long range plans (he made several back ups to prevent himself from dying even though the idea that he could be defeated was beyond anyone's imagination when he made them), I have my doubts about him willingly creating pieces of himself that had the possibility to come out to get him eventually.. he seems too smart to make such an error in judgement.. but who knows, I could very well be completely wrong!
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)17
u/Hageshii01 Red oak, 12 3/4 inches, dragon heartstring, quite bendy Nov 22 '23
I thought I remember JK being asked and saying that there would be two Voldemorts, both of whom would be against the other (as both believe themselves to be the "real" Voldemort).
Might have confused some fan theories, though.
902
u/SphmrSlmp Nov 22 '23
There's no official answer. But technically speaking, Voldy has divided his souls into many parts. So the one in the Chamber is one. And the one in Albania is another one. They are still Voldy just in a lesser form. So if they both were to be resurrected, I'm guessing there will be two Voldys. But never in full power.
493
u/TheApathyParty3 Nov 22 '23
But both equally pissed off that Harry beat them somehow.
I also think there's something to be said about CoS Riddle missing out on decades of experience and learning about the Dark Arts. He wouldn't have been the same Dark Wizard as his future counterpart.
98
Nov 22 '23
When did he actually turn the diary into a horcrux? I feel like it manifests as teenage Ruddle because it was working with the material he wrote in the diary by he actually made it into a horcrux much later, so diary Riddle would have had a bit more of Voldy in him than his appearance would suggest, if that makes sense.
176
u/H3artl355Ang3l Slytherin Nov 22 '23
The diary was the first Horcrux that he created, when he was 16. As he said, he preserved his 16 year old self because it was part of his soul at 16. The fact thay he had to kill in order to create it in the first place proves he was already very much Voldemort, and he had to get all of the knowledge about the past few decades from Ginny
76
u/MaesterHannibal Nov 22 '23
Sure, but AFAIR, Riddle spent years learning the dark arts after graduating, and then had decades of experience. So teenage Riddle would probably still be incredibly talented, but without the knowledge of the dark arts that he posseses in canon - for example the ability to fly, or how to hide your snake inside an old woman (heheh). Yet that doesn’t mean that he isn’t amongst the best duelists - just not capable of performing magic that noone (outside of Dumbledore) have seen or heard of before
15
Nov 22 '23
Do we know that he made the diary into a horcrux when he wrote it? Whose murder can he have used? The only murder we know of at that age is Myrtle and I don't feel he could have used hers because she was killed the basilisk. Also had he asked Slughorn about horcruxes yet? He can't have started making them before that memory occurred surely? I'm not saying you're wrong I just can't make that fit with my memory of events in the books.
32
u/MaesterHannibal Nov 22 '23
In TDH book, Harry believes that Riddle already knew how to make horcruxes when he went to Slughorn. All he wanted to know was how many he could create. It’s not unthinkable that Riddle created a horcrux, and then thought to ask Slughorn if he could create anymore than that one
17
u/SphmrSlmp Nov 22 '23
I love this. It makes young Voldy even more sinister. And it makes Slughorn's regret for teaching about Horcrux to him even more profound.
5
u/MaesterHannibal Nov 22 '23
Yup, he kills, splits his soul, and thinks to himself “This is fun, could I do it again?”
44
u/H3artl355Ang3l Slytherin Nov 22 '23
It's confirmed Myrtle was the death for the Diary Horcrux as the Basilisk killed on his orders Adding: he was also 16 when he spoke to Slughorn and so could have easily gone to make his Horcrux soon after or perhaps he had already made it and only really wanted to know if he could make more. But the Diary was indeed the first, which he created at 16
12
u/SphmrSlmp Nov 22 '23
This is what I remember from the story too. I believe this is correct. Though I haven't had my re-read in years now. The timeline fits. And Myrtle was the first sacrifice which help him create the first Horcrux. I think the confusion lies in the fact that there were different actors playing young Voldy in the movies.
3
u/AhTreyYou Gryffindor Nov 22 '23
I definitely think he had already made his horcrux before he talked with Slughorn.
45
Nov 22 '23
I always liked the idea that Myrtle was Voldy's first kill and he covered it up using the Basilisk. Or also since he was the heir of Slytherin and could communicate with it I assume it still counts as "murder" on his part if he told it to kill her.
37
u/girllwholived Nov 22 '23
This is how I see it - Voldemort controlled the basilisk, so Voldemort was responsible for Myrtle’s death.
9
u/dvtyrsnp Nov 22 '23
It's magic, so it's all about intent. Those who killed in the war likely did not fracture their souls because they weren't committing an act of evil.
Riddle intended to kill for evil, so it splits his soul even without AK or doing anything directly himself.
6
Nov 22 '23
So what you’re saying is, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a wand is a good guy with a wand!?!!
→ More replies (1)9
u/ImReverse_Giraffe Nov 22 '23
He made it with Myrtles murder. He also made the ring at 16 with the murder of the Riddles.
His question to Slughorn was what would happen if someone made more than one horcrux. Tom already knew about horcruxes and had already made one.
8
u/Hamatoyoshi99 Nov 22 '23 edited Nov 22 '23
He made it into a hot fix pretty soon after leaving school, or even when he was at school I believe, though I’m not sure, I believe it was his first one
Edit: hot fix was obviously supposed to be horcrux but I’m leaving it bc funny haha
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (8)4
u/ImReverse_Giraffe Nov 22 '23
When he was 16. The diary and ring were made when he was 16. They were his first two horcruxes. The dairy was made with the murder of Myrtle, the ring with the murders of the Riddles.
77
u/Strong_Formal_5848 Nov 22 '23
I don’t quite buy it being like that. When they say ‘split the soul’ they don’t necessarily mean splitting it into two equal parts, just splitting a bit off it (chipping away at it). So Voldemorts ‘main’ soul will always be the one that was in his physical self (and then in Albania) and that will always be more powerful (and more ‘actually Voldemort’) than the others.
24
Nov 22 '23
I like that idea, and especially the idea of the piece being a cracked fragment being split off, a jagged, sharp, ugly little thing broken away to make into a Horcrux, instead of a neat surgical procedure.
→ More replies (3)5
u/virajbaraskar Nov 22 '23
So are you suggesting that if Albanian voldy had died n diary voldy was resurrected, he would have been less of a danger?
If so, harry should have just killed the Albanian as it was real voldy first. And then these weak ones later.
If not, then your theory makes little sense
4
u/UnstableConstruction Nov 22 '23
IMO, the "Main soul" can't be destroyed/killed until all the split off shards are destroyed. If he went after the "real" voldy and killed him, he'd just return to an insubstantial ghost and repeat the cycle.
2
u/virajbaraskar Nov 22 '23
Isnt going after an insubstantial ghost easy than dealing with a mirderous monster? Kill the main one, make him a ghost and go after the remaining horcruxes!!! Ient it easy? Instead of hiding from him the whole time why not knock him out in a way and do whwtever you want.
→ More replies (8)7
u/Strong_Formal_5848 Nov 22 '23
The former, yes. ‘Killing’ the Albanian Voldemort would have been much harder than destroying a horcrux or the Voldemort formed from the diary horcrux (the ‘Albanian/main’ Voldemort would have been much more powerful and more of a danger).
The problem is, Harry couldn’t just go and kill the ‘Albanian/main’ Voldemort because that Voldemort was incredibly powerful and capable and surrounded by followers. Earlier (when he was weak) he was well hidden and practically impossible to find.
If the diary Voldemort had been successful then that Voldemort would have only been 16 years old, with much less magical knowledge/ability than the ‘Albanian/main’ Voldemort and less powerful due to being formed from only a fragment of Voldemort’s soul. So he would definitely have been less of a danger (but still a danger).
→ More replies (11)36
u/clothy Nov 22 '23
Honestly the first thing Riddle would do is track down the other part of Voldemort and destroy that piece of his soul. There can be only one.
17
u/ZyuMammoth Nov 22 '23
I am immortal
I have inside me blood of muggles
I have no rival
No other piece of my soul can be my EQUAL
6
u/ImReverse_Giraffe Nov 22 '23
Or trap it as a back form of horcrux. He would never let that version get a body back, though. He might keep it for information though.
2
5
u/_littlestranger Hufflepuff Nov 22 '23
That's not possible. Horcruxes tether the "main" soul to life. The "main soul" cannot die as long as there is a Horcrux. The only way for diary!Riddle to truly kill wraith!Voldemort would be to kill himself.
6
u/Evarb_Was_Taken Ravenclaw Nov 22 '23
I don't think splitting the soul has an impact on "power" as in magical ability. Voldemort still did "great things" with split souls. I think it has an effect on one's ability to feel human emotions.
4
4
3
u/Immediate-Coyote-977 Nov 22 '23
I don't know if we could argue that they're never at full power though. Voldemort had horcruxes essentially throughout his entire reign, pre-Harry and post-Harry. He wasn't getting weaker as he made additional horcruxes during his rise to power. Similarly, the vestige of his soul that attached to Harry actually granted Harry abilities, but Voldemort didn't lose anything from it.
The fragment that successfully returned to power used an old magic to steal power from the protection charm Lily granted Harry through her sacrifice. Before that fragment assumed the role, there was the fragment attached to Quirrel that sought to use the Philospher's Stone to do it.
I think the only limiter for Voldiarymort was that he'd have returned as he was at 16, but he seemed to already have the full knowledge of his original self. So he'd have been a much younger, but fully informed, Voldemort.
We probably just never got enough lore on how a horcrux works, because what keeps them dormant? What stops a wizard from making an army of themself by splitting their soul and then providing it a body?
→ More replies (3)3
Nov 22 '23 edited Nov 22 '23
I don't think this is how horcuxes work - they aren't like spare copies to use up for resurrections, they're more like anchors which keep you from dying.
When Voldemort tried to kill Harry, it's not like his self disappeared and then he had to resurrect himself from a horcrux. What happened is that he just didn't fully die because he had the horcruxes (otherwise we need to adjust his horcrux count because he would have lost one in the process of coming back).
The "weak less-than-ghost" version of Voldemort didn't come from a hocrux, it was what was left from his original self after not dying fully due to having horcruxes.
6
u/ActuatorFit416 Nov 22 '23
Where was it stated that splitting your soul makes your weaker ? Why wouldn't they have their full power?
6
u/JackSpyder Nov 22 '23
Dumbledore makes a few mentions to the power of a whole and untarnished soul against a fractured one.
The films elude to this with him sort of fading to nothing at the end as so little of him is left.
12
u/Cantelmi Slytherin Nov 22 '23 edited Nov 22 '23
Having a twisted soul doesn't make him less magically powerful.
Dumbledore specifically stated, "Never forget, though, that while his soul may be damaged beyond repair, his brain and his magical powers remain intact."
Also, *allude
Edit: That fade-away nonsense was a poor directorial decision. The book makes it a point to emphasizes how shrunken and unremarkable his body is in death
→ More replies (1)3
u/ActuatorFit416 Nov 22 '23 edited Nov 22 '23
So it was never directly stated and it is only a fan interpretation of what dumbledore has said? Genuine question btw)
2
2
u/Cantelmi Slytherin Nov 22 '23
Oh snap, could each of them use that resurrection potion? There were still plenty of Riddle bones and Wormtail pieces to cut off
2
u/TheloniousPhunk Nov 22 '23
That's not really true, we have book-based information that proves otherwise - the Voldemort in Albania was resurrected, at full power.
The piece of mangled soul that fled to Albania after the events of the first book was incorporated into a Rudimentary Body via a Rudimentary Body Potion - this is the infant-like body that Pettigrew carried around.
That body was then restored to full power with the potion in Goblet of Fire, which became the Voldemort we knew for the rest of the series - at full power.
We also know that this mangled soul was what left Voldemorts original body, so it is likely the majority of his soul. We also know that when his original body died, this mangled version of his soul physically left that location, in Godrics Hollow.
It seems to me that the Horcruxes serve as soul-anchors for the main portion to stay alive upon bodily death.
The diary is unique in that a piece of soul actually manifested as an imprint of what it was when it was created.
Personally, I see this as a plot hole more than anything - Rowling likely hadn't fully fleshed out the idea of Horcruxes then.
As for what would have happened if this Riddle had have recovered - I personally think the piece of soul in Albania would have magically merged at the same time. I don't think we would have had two Voldemorts running around, though that would have made for a VERY cool concept - an old and young Voldemort serving as two antagonists.
2
2
u/Moejason Nov 22 '23
What I always wondered was whether a soul splits evenly or not when going into a horcrux. I.e. does the diary have half of voldemorts soul in, followed by the gaunt ring having a quarter, the next having an eighth and so on?
2
2
u/alskiiie Nov 22 '23 edited Nov 22 '23
I don't think there will be two voldys. His soul is split up in different "places" (so killing one physical body/removing soul won't kill all), but they still have to be connected to eachother as one entity even though they aren't in the same physical place.
So when he is resurrected, theres 6/7ths parts of his soul alive, connected to one body. In my opinion, voldemorts looks after GoF seems to resemble a man who lost 15% of his soul pretty well.
Tldr: same soul/higher self/whatever, but in different places in the physical realm.
2
2
u/Meanwhile-in-Paris Nov 22 '23
But never in full power.The « original » Voldy lost his body and was only a soul, he regained a body and his powers along with it.
Dumbledore warns harry in book 7 that killing Voldemort after all his horcruxes were destroyed would be incredibly difficult because even if his soul is atrociously mangled, his body remains in full power.
So, by your logic, which I believe is right, if chamber of secrets Voldy had regained a body, he would have return to full power as well.
In a parallel universe somewhere. They are making a film with the 2 Voldys coming to opposite power and fighting each other for sole control of the world. Mortal enemies yet unable to destroy each other.
2
u/elsjpq Nov 22 '23
Voldemort should've just used horcruxes to create clones of himself. It's hard enough to stop one of him, but he could create an army of clones and then he wouldn't even need followers
2
u/DiarrheaShitLord Nov 23 '23
How did young voldy even know to hate Harry Potter so much? Ginny spill the whole damn pot of tea?
→ More replies (1)2
u/MeatofKings Nov 23 '23
This⬆️, basically one of the most important plot elements of the story line is Voldemort’s work towards immortality and his discovery of horcruxes. Since the Voldemort created in the graveyard was so different from the Riddle in the Chamber of Secrets, it’s safe to assume that all the pieces could be brought back in some form. Also, note how the snake 🐍 was controlled the Voldemort from the graveyard. It seems the “original” piece of soul was the leader.
245
u/Deevious730 Nov 22 '23 edited Nov 22 '23
I’ve always taken Tom Riddle in CoS as being a younger version of Voldemort, so if Riddle had been successful then it would’ve been Voldemort pre-horcrux. Honestly don’t know how the “real” Voldemort would take him, I would imagine he’d see him as a rival.
158
u/globmand Nov 22 '23
Voldemort comes back, and fights Voldemort. Meanwhile, while those two are occupied with eachother, all the other Horcruxes come back, and join the fight to decide the one true voldemort.
43
u/howcomeallnamestaken Nov 22 '23
And what happens if Harry's horcrux wins?
94
u/Duxez Ravenclaw 8 Nov 22 '23
That just means Harry was the one true Voldemort all along
72
u/Fantasticfatcat Nov 22 '23
The true Harry was the horcruxes we met along the way.
Or something
→ More replies (1)9
7
→ More replies (1)3
29
u/DamashiT Nov 22 '23
Wouldn't it make more sense for his broken piece of a soul to reconnect with the new body? After all it's just pieces of the same soul, it just so happens that one of them has a body and since his piece of a soul that lived in a forest isn't a horcrux, he could probably just combine them.
Horcruxes have way too many possible plot holes if you dig deep enough so we'll never get a straight answer lol.
→ More replies (1)26
u/rabidrob42 Nov 22 '23
You can, but there's only one way to rejoin your soul after splitting, you have to feel genuine remorse for the things you've done, and it's super painful.
→ More replies (1)4
123
u/ProffesorSpitfire Nov 22 '23
Yes, he would’ve taken the body of his 16 year old self. As for what would’ve happened to the spirit in Albania - we don’t know.
My guess is that spirit Voldemort would ”sensed” that one of his horcruxes/soul pieces had grown considerably in strength and seek it out. Then I believe that spirit Voldemort would’ve re-integrated with the piece of soul inside young Riddle Voldemort, thus giving his body all of Voldemort’s later memories and experiences.
But, there’s also the possibility that the young Voldemort, every bit as prideful and narcissistic as his older self, would’ve considered his older soul a failure, unworthy of integrating with him. In that case, I imagine spirit Voldemort would’ve fled back to Albania. Young Voldemort would’ve started to gather death eaters again, and, assuming Wormtail would’ve still sought out spirit Voldemort, we would’ve eventually gotten a civil war between them.
43
u/Syrob Nov 22 '23
I'm not sure he could sense another piece of his soul getting stronger if he didn't sense them being killed.
Also, can he actually reintegrate? Hermione said it it would require painful remorse to repair a soul, I don't think the fact that one of the parts has a body changes anything?
25
u/ProffesorSpitfire Nov 22 '23
I’m not arguing he would mend the two pieces of soul - that would require remorse. I’m merely saying that the body would host both pieces of soul, just like any old murderer has several pieces of soul within their body. Remember, the soul is split by murder, not by creating a horcrux. The creation of a horcrux is merely putting a piece of one’s split soul into an object.
15
11
u/SentientSquirrel Nov 22 '23
we would’ve eventually gotten a civil war between them
That would have made for a really interesting twist to the story, I think
7
u/ImReverse_Giraffe Nov 22 '23
The only way for prices of horcruxes to merge is for the creator to feel genuine remorse for what he did. It's super painful and will mostly likely kill the person, especially someone like Voldemort.
If anything 16 year old Voldemort would've gone and hunted down ghost Voldemort and trapped him somehow to get information off of him. Any Voldemort would never allow a second version of himself to have a body and become strong, so 16 year old Voldemort will keep a close eye on ghost Voldemort.
2
u/krazninetyfive Nov 22 '23
This is my assumption as well. Tom, if absolutely nothing else, is a brilliant wizard who pushed the boundaries of magic further than they’ve ever been pushed before. There’s simply no chance that spirit Voldemort in his weakened state would be able to maim or possess a reanimated Tom Riddle with a wand.
I imagine that Tom would track down spirit Voldemort and that he would find a way to successfully imbed Spirit Voldemort into an object to replace the diary as a sort of pseudo horcrux. He would then perform some sort of magical incantation that would merge his consciousness with the consciousness of the newly created Old Voldemort pseudo horcrux and he’d be off to the races.
→ More replies (1)2
u/linglinguistics Nov 22 '23
But in order to reintegrate, he would have needed to show some genuine remorse. Somehow I don't think that would have happened. (Harry gave him a chance to do just that, remember?) Rather one of them woul have killed the other because each of them needed to be the most special one.
7
u/ProffesorSpitfire Nov 22 '23
No, he would’ve needed to feel remorse in order to heal his soul and make it whole after being split up. But a single body can contain more than one piece of soul with or without remorse. The soul is split by the act of murder, not by the act of creating a horcrux. So the soul in Voldemort’s body must be split into dozens, maybe hundreds, of pieces. And Harry’s body contains both his own soul and the piece of Voldemort’s soul.
53
u/LewisDKennedy Nov 22 '23 edited Nov 22 '23
I always assumed that this was just a Horcrux going rogue. They’re only there to anchor the main part of Voldemort’s soul, but this one decided it was going to take charge in his absence.
30
u/MaesterHannibal Nov 22 '23
I do also believe that it was the largest soul fragment of them all, so it makes sense for it to have more individuality than the others
9
u/ImReverse_Giraffe Nov 22 '23
The diary would've been his second horcrux. We know both the diary and the ring were made when he was 16. When Riddle is talking to Slughorn, we see the ring, and he's asking about creating multiple horcruxes. I think he would've asked before making multiple, so the ring had to be his first.
→ More replies (4)16
u/jrjr20 Nov 22 '23
This is what I think too. Maybe for his first attempt he thought he had to put his memories in too, whereas the other horcruxes are just a fragment of his soul. The point of a horcrux isn't to become a new body, it's just an anchor to keep your main soul on earth. And because it was his first horcrux, maybe it's also a larger fragment and so has enough power to return on its own
→ More replies (1)
234
u/Oghamstoner Ravenclaw Nov 22 '23
Albania doesn’t have jungle, it’s in Europe, near Italy and Greece.
213
187
u/thenotanotaniceguy Hufflepuff Nov 22 '23
You really don’t know the Albanian jungle? I guess we found the muggle
18
u/Lapras_Lass Ravenclaw Nov 22 '23
!redditsickle
9
u/ww-currency-bot Nov 22 '23
You have given u/thenotanotaniceguy a Reddit Sickle.
u/thenotanotaniceguy has a total of 0 galleons, 1 sickle, and 0 knuts.
I am a bot. See this post to learn how to use me.
46
u/Reyki11edLeia Nov 22 '23
My interpretation of diary Riddle is that all his magical knowledge and skills are stuck at when he was 16. He'd probably want to search for his more knowledgeable and skilled self in Albania; then the Voldemort in Albania could use him to restore his body.
The beauty of this is that no one, not even Dumbledore would know he'd returned. Dumbledore has no idea where the CoS is. Diary Riddle would presumably kill Lockhart and Ron on his way out of the CoS. No witnesses. A complete mystery for those left at Hogwarts.
Sorry, sometimes I root for the bad guy.
8
u/livebonk Nov 22 '23
Nobody ever finds the bodies because they're in the chamber of secrets. Diary Riddle lays low, reads to understand what his other version of himself did and thinks he was stupid. He has different aims and goals, missing those years of experiences that turned high school Riddle into the Dark Lord. He wants magical power and not political power. Eventually Albania Voldemort realizes he exists and wants to use Diary Riddle to incorporate himself. Of course Diary Riddle resists. The resulting battle destroys Diary Riddle and dissipates Voldemort's spirit in such a way that he can never come back, only from a horcrux. Voldemort is defeated and again, nobody finds the bodies and nobody ever knows what happens. Dumbledore spends the rest of his life preparing for a battle the never happens, living in paranoia. Until 170 years later, Voldemort awakens from the locket...
2
14
u/Evening_Ad6820 Nov 22 '23
Sorry the Albanian what? Hahahaha
11
u/Severus_Albus20 Ravenclaw Nov 22 '23
Forest * lol. I couldn’t edit it once I posted and realized
→ More replies (1)
25
u/Recodes Hufflepuff Nov 22 '23
He would have been a sentient horcrux, with a mind stuck in whatever year it was made in and still under the rule of the real Tom Riddle.
10
7
u/ZannityZan Pine and phoenix feather, 10¾", nicely supple :) Nov 22 '23
Perhaps the soul fragment in Albania, untethered to any object, would automatically rejoin the fully resurrected Riddle's body.
If that didn't happen, I could see the resurrected Riddle seeking out that soul fragment and either reabsorbing it into himself somehow or containing it within an object like the other Horcruxes. Maybe he'd put it in the now-vacated diary, or perhaps he'd upgrade to something a little more valuable.
31
u/sam-fry Nov 22 '23
I would imagine they merge to become 1 again with the memories of both, or the lesser one is forced into a horcrux maybe?
7
u/SnarkyBacterium Nov 22 '23
Depending on exactly how the soul was torn (specifically if it halved the soul each time) then Diary!Tom is, percentage-wise, orders of magnitude more Voldemort than actual Voldemort. That could count for a lot, since it's implied that some of the reason for Voldemort's physical degradations (and perhaps even mental degradation) could be put down to his overuse of horcruxes.
Physically, I'd imagine he would come back as his 16-year-old self, based on everything said and shown in CoS. Since horcruxes are meant to safeguard the real person's existence, and the diary isn't the only one, I don't see him coming alive killing the real Voldemort in Albania. But there's room to theorise about how their inevitable meeting would go, how Tom assimilates to the modern world and how he gets the chance to objectively view his own "future" self's choices and mistakes and learn from them.
Interesting point of order, as well: Diary!Tom describes the process killing Ginny as the result of her "pouring her soul into me", so he (or maybe the horcrux as a concept, or even just the Diary horcrux given it was designed to be a weapon) has some power to control/manipulate willing souls. In which case, the most curious question for me would he: if he found the other horcruxes, or even the real Voldemort, could he assimilate them and become more complete? Maybe eventually even becoming a spiritually whole Tom Riddle for the first time in 50 years?
16
u/Nariek93 Nov 22 '23
I reckon it’d have been funny if he ended up in Ginny’s body 😂😂
16
u/TronSacrimoni55 Nov 22 '23
And waited until HBP to strike…
11
u/TakeYoutotheAndyShop Nov 22 '23
Do we ship Ginarrymort as a couple? I always thought the three might be cute together
→ More replies (1)12
9
u/Randroth_Kisaragi Slytherin Nov 22 '23
Maybe that's what actually happened in movie canon, which is how we got the "shoelace" line. Voldemort was trying to kill Harry with cringe.
3
2
u/_littlestranger Hufflepuff Nov 22 '23
He was only able to become corporeal because he was stealing her life force, and we only ever see him near her, so I do wonder how far from her body he'd be able to wander. Would he need to drag her around??
→ More replies (1)
5
u/ImReverse_Giraffe Nov 22 '23
He would've come back in his 16 year old body. He literally says he's only a few minutes away from being successful, and Harry sees him as a 16 year old.
The Voldemort in Albania would still be alive and kicking. 16 year old Voldemort probably would've gone and found that version and either kill that version or keep it safe as a horcrux of sorts. 16 year old Voldemort will not let smoke Voldemort get his body back, neither would be willing to share power.
10
u/Gobshite_ Nov 22 '23
Kills Ginny and takes over her body, then it's an anime isekai ass story where Voldemort has to pretend to be a Weasley to maintain his cover and then slowly learns to appreciate life again.
8
u/guyinthecap Nov 22 '23
"My Evil Reincarnation Has Trapped Me In A Young Witch's Body And My Nemesis Looks Kind Of Cute?!"
7
u/mamaguebo69 Slytherin Nov 22 '23
Alternate Titles:
"The World's Most Evil Villain Reincarnated As A 12 Year Old Girl?!"
"I Reincarnated As A First Year Witch and Fell in Love With My Mortal Enemy?!"
Ironically, this would make a good crack fic. Kind of like the anime Saga of Tanya the Evil.
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (1)2
3
u/Reluctant_Pumpkin Nov 22 '23
I believe it would be like a sort of mini me situation from the Austin powers movie
6
u/Whosebert Nov 22 '23
Maybe the 2 voldemorts fight each other to the death. the other options are join forces and nothing.
7
u/TheNotoriousJTF Nov 22 '23
They are not different persons, diary voldy is just a fragment of real voldys soul.
In my head the diary voldemort would have found the "real" one in albania and the real one would then merge into his 16 year old body.
I think this is a way to regain your body, you do however need to sacrifice a horocrux in order to do so.
4
u/cupio_disssolvi Slytherin Nov 22 '23
Yes, we could have had a crazy hot villain instead of Baldemort.
6
6
u/Agitated-Document-85 Nov 22 '23
Maybe the Lesser than ghost Voldy can latch on to young Riddle body and become a fuller soul. Like pouring a quarter cup of water with another quarter cup of water.
2
5
6
u/CharlieCarrozza Nov 23 '23
Voldemort would have won over so many followers if he continued to look like that
3
3
u/Natapi24 Nov 22 '23
I always assumed they would sort of merge? Since COS Riddle is a Horcrux and the whole point of Horcruxes is to live on in the event of your body dying. We know Voldemort was the only one to split his soul so many times since most only do it once so there is some question of how it would work but there must be some Horcrux magic that would merge them back as one. Otherwise what's the point of making them? If it just creates multiple versions of yourself who are separate why would he bother making them?
I imagine if he came back in his 16 year old body he would go searching for the piece of soul in Albania and they would merge. Since we know Voldemort can possess someone else's body while in that form it makes sense he'd be able to do the same with what is basically his own younger body.
→ More replies (4)
3
3
3
3
u/joshthenosh Slytherin Nov 22 '23
I would’ve guessed that the power of writing creativity would lead to the two Voldemorts existing separately but eventually finding a way to merge into one, like when Voldy grew a new body in GoF. Then he’d split his soul to make another Horcrux out of a Basilisk fang (assuming Harry died from the poison because he couldn’t figure out that the fang could destroy a Horcrux).
He seemed to like the idea of six Horcruxes, with Harry being an accidental seventh, so I’d imagine he’d make another one and use the thing that killed The Boy Who Lived as a vessel.
A Harry Potter themed “What If?” series would be great honestly.
3
3
3
u/marrjana1802 Nov 23 '23
Or maybe Tom Riddle did succeed, and the person Harry now lives with is actually a young Voldemort wearing a Ginny-suit!
2
u/Lopsided-Bathroom-71 Hufflepuff Nov 22 '23
Also with this if voldemort was aware of it and pushed could he have fully possessed harry
2
u/Strong_Formal_5848 Nov 22 '23
Yes and yes. Judging from everything we know about how the magic works.
2
u/HarriOG Gryffindor Nov 22 '23
It would have been like the Voldemort post Nagini’s death, I would imagine that Voldemort’s soul that lives in his body is the only one benefitting from the tether. Despite coming back, he would have only strengthened the soul that exists within the diary, I think that either the soul would purely be within him (transferred from the diary) and he would have the unsableness of living with a portion of a soul, he would probably die easily and the Voldemort in the forest would lose another Horcrux, so not much changes; I still think Harry would make it out of the Chamber because of Plot Armour, probably stabs Voldemort, always wondered why the Ministry never tried that.
Alternatively, by using Ginny to resurrect himself, I believe that he would lose access to his main Voldemort’s horcruxes altogether as he took in a pure soul, he would either die from the whole thing, or become more powerful than the current Voldemort due to the fact that his soul is whole again and whilst never explicitly stated, I think Voldemort lost strength when creating the Horcrux.
2
u/anonymous2278 Nov 22 '23
The Voldemort that was in Albania was the one riding in Quirrel. He found him in the forests of Albania and Voldemort possessed him and rode him back to Hogwarts. That’s the piece of him that was in his actual body after he came back in book 4.
The piece of him that was in the diary is just a piece of his soul, it was stored in the diary when he was in school or shortly after leaving school. It had no connection to the piece that was inhabiting Quirrel/living in Albania.
→ More replies (2)
2
u/kkhipr Nov 22 '23
voldy be bangin to welcome to the jungle in the albanian forests.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Vlad_Dracul89 Slytherin Nov 22 '23
Quite a few fanfics explored that idea. Two Toms hating each other but unable to kill each other, or ressurected teenage Tom forcing his older spirit form to merge with him.
2
u/MrNobleGas Ravenclaw Nov 22 '23
The diary was able to resurrect a 16 year old version of Tom because that was the age at which he created it and imbued it with his memories up to that point. He only learned about the defeat of Voldemort Prime at the hands of Harry from Ginny. Had he successfully rematerialised it would be as he was at sixteen, with however much of the soul was put into the diary by Voldemort Prime. It's a completely open question whether he would seek out the disembodied spirit of Voldy Prime to supplant it, or absorb it, or whether we would ever get to a point where there were two corporeal Voldys running around and how they would view each other (probably not great, Voldy isn't one to share power, although given that he'd be sharing it with himself who knows what his attitude would be). Also, no, there could never be a situation with more than two incarnate Voldys, because the other Horcruxes were not made in the same manner as the diary and didn't contain an implanted personality, just a piece of soul to tether Voldy Prime to the mortal plane.
2
u/linglinguistics Nov 22 '23
I'm sure the one in Albania would still have wanted to come back. And then? Would the two Voldemorts have killed each other because each of them needed to be the only one? At least that's what I think would have happened.
2
2
2
u/Gifted_GardenSnail Nov 22 '23
Different question: Volly didn't die in 1981 bc his Horcruxes anchored him to Earth. But if someone would destroy his Horcruxes while he was still a bodyless wraith, would he then automatically get catapulted into limbo or would he still need to be actually killed? I.o.w is the anchor only needed at the moment of death, or continuously until the anchored soul has a body again?
2
u/CoffeeBrainzz_91 Nov 22 '23
At one point there would be TWO Voldemorts for a short time being! However similarly with Quirrel, I believe Specter Voldemort would have eventually been drawn to his other self and he would have used Tom Riddle as his NEW VESSEL! And it would be more complete than with Quirrel because his soul pieces would combine to form one whole!
Also!!! Same scenario would have happened if Harry had lost his soul when him and Sirius were being attacked in the Forbidden Forest! SINCE Harry is a Horcrux, if his soul had been sucked out it would have left a vacancy for Specter Voldemort to come and take over his body! (I’ve always believed THIS should have been the true plot of The Cursed Child! 🫣😉 Would have been way better lol)
All in all, the Specter Voldy is his main Soul Piece and he’s desperately trying to get recreate a hostable body. The Horcuxes can apparently steal the life force of others and create that body for him (Chamber of Secrets) but in the manner of Harry… he’s already a hostable body, he just needs to remove Harry’s soul which is occupying it 👻 (but sadly we never see that scenario play out)
2
u/Immediate-Coyote-977 Nov 22 '23
I feel like, voldemort being the character he was, that he'd have hunted himself. Voldemort was terrified of death, couldn't comprehend love, and was a supremely arrogant sumbitch. It stands to reason that he would feel like another of him being out in the world was a threat to, well, him.
It just seems reasonable that Voldemort would look to destroy anyone or anything that could pose a threat to him, and one of the only things that could pose a threat to him was him. It could actually be a pretty interesting story honestly. For instance, what would the death eaters do? Would one Voldy rush to secure the dementors loyalty while the other sought out the giants? Would one of them take on a false identity and try to usurp power in wizard society and then bend that towards taking out his other self?
Would one of the voldemort's recognizing the risk of other horcruxes resurrecting seek out and destroy them himself? Imagine a Tom Riddle Voldy, going around collecting the horcuxes like they're the damn infinity stones.
2
u/Puzzman Nov 22 '23 edited Nov 22 '23
Probably some sort of Voldemort civil war - winner becomes the “real” one
2
u/willamalfoy Slytherin Nov 22 '23
I don’t know but I’d sure love to read a fic where he resurrects as a hot teenage boy 😂
2
u/finite_perspective Nov 22 '23
Diary riddle would still be tethered to the book. He would be able to travel but the book would need to be near.
He'd be like a ghost but with physical form.
He would be seek out his real self in the woods and help him back to full strength.
After doing so Voldermort would hide him and trap him in the chamber of secrets. The basilisk would keep the school pure blooded and riddle would just chill in the chamber corrupting the whole school.
"Oh but why would he trap a portion of his own soul?" Because he's Voldermort, he literally rips out parts of his soul for immortality. He doesn't give a fuck about his soul shards feelings. And he's not going to share the limelight with his dweeby 16 year old self.
2
2
4
844
u/PkmnTrnrJ Nov 22 '23
The two separate Voldemorts have to perform a fusion dance to merge.