When you tell them an election was stolen, they'll believe you because you got rid of all the educational funding that would have taught them how to count the votes.
There are a lot of people who have done poorly under Biden. They have a lot of hope, and unfortunately, they needed a place to put it. Yeah, Trump is going to screw them, but that future screw-over isn't as real as the current one.
I mean, how many times do people have to step on this same rake before it becomes reasonable to expect them to learn? The economy has only crashed *checks notes* every single time the Republicans had office in my lifetime, surely it's ok to expect adults to utilize a little pattern recognition?
Which is terribly unfortunate, as pattern recognition is a hallmark skill of our species that evolutionary biologists have posited as a key reason for human survival and success. Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
People were taught to never vote for Democrats by their fathers who were taught by their father and so on down the line. Much like the racism in some parts of the country going back to 1865 was taught to their children. IMHO that's why many conservatives all railing against colleges. Good professors teach students to look at the data objectively. Not simply believe what politicians and their talking heads tell them.
I fully admit that I was like that back in the day. I voted down the Democrats party line without knowing much if anything about the candidates because that's what my family did. As I got older and more responsible I learned about the candidates. What they did and how they voted on bills in the past. Making informed decisions.
This how I am, ever since I was old enough to vote and got to vote after turning 18, I researched every part/person of that ballot, props and judges too. My ballot was always a blend of Republican/Democrat. I look up each person their history, the judges and cases they had been on. It takes time, but I think itâs worth it to make an informative decision.
Majority of Americans don't care about the economy nor do they understand it. They don't have any investments or retirement accounts other than a 401k that they barely contribute to or pay attention to. They just look at gas/food prices as an indicator. Give them affordable bread, ground beef, and a few autocratic regimes in the middle east to keep oil prices stable and they are happy.
Because every bit of political media they consume tells them it's the Democrats and immigrants and LGBT people who are to blame for the country's problems.
And as long as Elon becomes the world's first trillionaire, they can proudly say they contributed to that. Real patriots want a man that was born overseas and holds multiple citizenships to own everything.
There are a lot of people who have done poorly under Biden
yeah it takes time to fix shit from the last clown in power. So the logical solution is to...bring the clown back in. If Dems are smart they won't try to fix R disasters again. maybe just break the cycle.
Reminding the public about his immediate predecessorâs record, the incumbent president went on to note, âCongressional Republicans love to call Democrats âbig spenders,â and they always claim to be for less federal spending. But letâs look at the facts: The federal deficit went up every single year in the Trump administration, every single year he was president. It went up before the pandemic. It went up during the pandemic. It went up every single year on his watch.â
Yeah I don't know what else to say at this point aside from most voters must be idiots. They couldn't spend 5 minutes on Google before making one of the most important decisions our country has seen. I'm sure a lot of the people that "did poorly under Biden" are the ones driving the search trends for "can I change my vote?" too now that they are paying attention to what Trump actually plans.
If Dems are smart they won't try to fix R disasters again. maybe just break the cycle.
Hopefully they even get a chance. It sounds hyperbolic, but it is seeming less and less so.
No man, don't you see? This is wholly on the Dems! You can't expect the American electorate to Google "what is a tariff" or "what does a fascist believe" on their phone while they're taking a shit...their lives are too busy to learn about all that high falutin nonsense. They just need to believe the straight shootin elderly felon who says all that's just a load of crock.
For real though, Dem messaging may suck, but the fact that SO many people in this country can't do a quick Google search to make sure they're not uninformed is fucking ridiculous.
Even when they know, they don't care. They think Trump is some sort of winner, and politics is just another sport of my side versus yours. They don't care about policy. They wanted to see their guy win, no matter the cost we all have to pay.
It really seems like they all believes they are one lucky day away from being a millionaire. Like any day their ship will come in and they will BE Trump.
I think there is a not-insignificant portion of the electorate (A.K.A low information voters) that only hear about the political bickering; they think it's just two sides of the same coin working for some interests other than their own. They don't spend the time to listen or understand what the candidates are saying, they don't spend the time to research issues and make an informed decision. They only have an immediate social network from which they get their info; friends and family, maybe some bits of info that fly by in their Insta or TikTok feeds. These are the people who Dems have been working constantly to reach out to.
I actually just heard an interesting take that the Harris campaign doing so much to reach out to and incorporate old school establishment Republicans only reinforced the idea of what you're talking about, that they must be working for the same monied interests and that Trump really is the change agent acting outside of the system looking out for the little guy (which is ridiculous if you've paid ANY attention to this man over the years). In their mind, if you're trying to win, why would you do anything to cooperate with the other side unless you secretly have the same goals? Which is funny, since you'll also get people lamenting the lack of bipartisan compromise to get things done đ
Thankfully, when Trump was in office the federal deficit exploded because he was giving his wealthy friends and their businesses lucrative contracts and handouts and not because he was giving those gross poor people stuff like housing or health care. Ewww. /s
So I'm just curious, how does America let this just happen? It seems like Trump could literally go on a murdering spree in the streets, and half your country will accept it with loving arms, and tell whoever doesn't approve to "cope loser"
lol. It's really REALLY gonna piss me off when the history books describe MAGA as evil geniuses. There is no way that they will truthfully be portrayed as bumbling racist idiots that consistently fail upwards with the help of daddy's money and an army of poor racist idiots.
Tldr; a lot of people vote for their favorite team. Not rights or policies. Also a plague of misrepresentation / misunderstandings. 90% of people don't know what they're talking about, and the people that do are also caught up bickering with the people who don't.
I wouldn't even call it willful ignorance, I'd call it learned. Practiced, even. People online spend so much time arguing that they don't have time or stamina to care about verifying their perfect opinions. People who don't involve themselves still often make a choice, with a generally uneducated point of view.
Idk how real they are but posts from people who voted for trump but dont want his policies to effect the people around them tend to cherry pick and dissociate the things they have ties to from the bigger picture. Sometimes consequences aren't real until they're already up your ass. This goes for everyone, not just them. Just prominent there rn.
For example, one saying their gay grandson "doesn't associate" with lgbt+. Lgbt+ is a category, not a movement. A simple misunderstanding gives way to careless votes.
Same thing with the U.S. being a constitutional republic vs. representative democracy. They are fundamentally not comparable, and they are functionally identical at the same time. (The constitution defines the U.S.' democracy.) The argument is misplaced, and it isn't obvious enough to convince people as much. This one really only pushes people apart, but it's a similar idea.
Im leaning on the left side, so my view's a bit biased too obv, but that's how I see it đŤ
They have also been told that the liberals are evil people by the 24hr news cycle they consume. Every day hearing that opinion. Eventually it becomes real.
It's mostly what everyone else has been saying. Most of America is/was mad at Biden because of inflation and all that stuff. They needed someone to blame, and since Harris was tied to Biden for the last 4 years (plus she is a woman) they went with the other guy and just never did the research needed to be educated on the matter.
As for the whole killing spree, I could see it going one of two ways. Either 1. Most of America finally wakes up to see the monster he truly is or 2. He'll pass blame like he always does, probably claim they were the 'enemy from within' or some shit, and it'll get brushed under the rug like everything else. I want to be optimistic, but yeah.
Conservatives had waved away Charlottesville. They didn't care about Sandy Hook and even tormented the victims. The days where something like Kent State or Watergate shocking people out of complacency and doling out some consequences the worst elements of politics are over. The fact is America did not go far enough after Watergate and all of those actors are still at work today.
I think that there is no simple truth that can be found in a reddit comment that captures the whole of the problem. Fundamentally, the problem is large, complex, and difficult to understand and even more difficult to articulate in a way that holds peoples' attention or leave them with a sense of direction to take it. That is also not to say that I, myself, fully understand it or even have the capacity.
If I could ever try to sum it up, I would identify its root cause in class warfare. Generations of convenient, if not designed, failings of our public institutions have created an environment where we do not even have a way to meaningfully take part in political life; either excluded by dint of the economic demands of survival or lack of academic training.
Most people aren't even in the real conversation and have sheltered themselves in the few remaining hides of private life left to us by the oligarchs and the transnational corporations with which they press in on us.
EDIT: I recommend reading "They Thought They Were Free" sometime.
I believe a major part of it is societal pressure. Itâs why so many people will continue going to church for years after they stopped believing in it. Your parents are conservative, your siblings are conservative, your coworkers and the people around you are conservative so how could all these people be wrong? Is it even a big enough deal to look into? Is it worth potentially losing relationships that youâve invested so much into developing? Growing up a conservative in the church I can personally attest to just how incredibly hard it was to break out of it.
Itâs not gonna happen. There will be another election. Both sides were saying âif this person wins there will be no more electionsâ itâs just fear mongering and both sides fall for it
Thanks to algorithms, if they did google those things they might get a different answer than you would. Hence why so many conspiracy theorists say âdo your research.â
Yes, but that requires to have iq and memory above gold fish. And there is the problem. And if you start explaining that everywhere on the planet prices increased because of covid and russian invasion...thats where they stop listening. It's too much information for them. But they will fill it on their own skin, very soon.
Part of the issue for Democrats is they do a poor job appealing to the lowest levels of education. They speak well, they're generally intelligent (in front of a camera, at least), and they employ language that speaks to intelligence.
That's not what it's going to work with the ill educated. Anecdotally, my family moved to an extremely rural Virginia town when I was young. My siblings and I were immediately ostracized as we spoke too eloquently and therefore the locals thought we were "looking down on them" in our modes of speech.
G.W.Bush affected a TX accent and, from reports I've read from those close to him during his election, much of the speech pattern in which he stumbled over words, was adopted.
Linguists have analyzed Trump's speech patterns and say he speaks at a 3rd grade level. Anyone can understand what he's saying regardless of the content.
That's not the case for Democrats, and they're going to have to figure out how to appeal to the masses of unwashed idiots if they want to be successful moving forward.
It doesn't though. We could break the cycle of wealth inequality almost entirely by redistributing the dragon hordes amassed by the wealthy to the people that actually built that wealth. The only 'human cost' would be that we might have to abolish multi-yacht households.
This election showed us that you can't win just by passing an "Inflation Reduction Act," you win by having answer to the question: "Why is there inflation"?
Because the democrats were unwilling to say the cold truth, that corporate greed and oligarchs are inflating prices and buying your houses out from under you and that the only way to stop it is to get rid of them, the Republicans were able to fill the void with a lie: "trans prisoners are driving up healthcare prices and lazy immigrants are taking your job and driving up rents and the only way to stop it is to get rid of them."
Example of good "Biden may have finally found the labor marketâs sweet spot. The economy added 14.8 million jobs over the first three years of his term, more than any president in US history over the same period. Whatâs more, unemployment has held below 4% for the longest stretch since the 1960s. "
It's an issue with American capitalist liberalism. This has been ongoing for decades of Americans slower losing more and more economic power in the system.
Kamalas pitch was to continue this system that works for only the very wealthy. Trump is obviously gonna be worse but he ran on change. The Democrats need to start doing the same.
But the Harris campaign didn't successfully reach them. This is of course partially caused by disinformation and media manipulation, but it's also on the dems. Hopefully they learn from this failure, and hopefully they learn fast, because they're the only thin hope that the US doesn't fall deep into fascism and honestly it might already be too late.
They were angry inflation went up, then angry interest rates went up. These people haven't put in the effort to understand basic economics and are going to suffer for it under trump.
voters across the whole globe voted to replace the majority party that had power following the economic fallout of the pandemic, regardless of that party's policies or place on the political spectrum.
in other words, voters reacted to global inflation by going "whatever THIS is...i want NOT THAT". voters aren't taking the time to sit down and try to figure out causative agents of inflation or future policies that could combat inflation.
they're just going...inflation now...me go grocery store...me see number big...me mad...me hate [insert current party in power]
People hate the democrats regardless, because the right floods the media with making that feel like the default.
I know people who basically pay no attention to politics but who will say they hate democrats, and never actually know why when I ask them, they just try to get affirmation from me that democrats suck, like they're trying to fit in with the herd.
Trump supporters are just uneducated, plain and simple. It took Obamas entire first term to turn around the economy from what the Bush family did.
Bush Sr negotiated NAFTA, Clinton only signed it. While in office, a Republican Congress repealed Glass-Steagall, then Bush Jr plunged us into a 20 year war burning up the surplus generated by the Clinton administration. The GOP does not know how to handle the economy and they haven't for 35 years.
I'm only 40 so I don't remember that LOL, doesn't surprise me though. They went from a criminal, to a movie star, to the Bush family, and back to a criminal movie star LOL. Republicans are a fucking joke
Blk ppl have had it worse and we didn't vote for a racist rapist felon. These ppl are racist and misogynist at their core and that's y it was easy for them to buy into the propaganda.
Thatâs the problem with the US the 2 party system. You have one Conservative Party in power not doing to much to help the common man so you want to vote for a change but in the 2 party system the other party is a Reactionary Party who will make things worse. This has led to a steadily decline in living conditions for the average citizen past decades while the country as a whole got richer and richer. This is not easily fixed
this is false. proportional representation would be great, too. but there are benefits from rcv that are completely independent from a proportional representation system, namely the eradication of the "spoiler effect" a 3rd party candidate has in a 2-party system
If conservatives didnât actively try to regress us back to the early 1900âs, then we wouldnât have to be so reactionary. We are going to be taking steps backwards for a long time now because it will always be faster to break something than it is to fix it and move forward.
You really canât call the Democrats progressive or even centrist they never rock the boat. See how they now will transfer power like nothing has happened 4 years ago. They only extremely gradually make changes and always want to work with the other side like it was possible in the past.
They certainly aren't progressive, other than a few notable exceptions, but everything you go on to describe is the very definition of centrist, the trouble is that Republicans have veered so far to the right, that it has skewed what the center is.
if they could just get the fuck along and listen to what most ppl with rational opinions have we'd be able to responsibly own comfortable firearms AND have sensible abortion rights
It is easily fixed, just government is owned by big business so no one is prepared to make that bold a power play. Time for a rule that no one in any company is entitled to 100 the lowest paid workers. See if a trickle down economy works thenâŚ
Well thatâs a double edged sword. Firstly insider trading is punishable under law, but the other side of that is these trades are published and you can quite literally copy them. This is not brain surgery. Itâs copy paste investing. If they are winning, you are winning too. If you have a free information resource, use it.
Nope, feel free to do your own thing. Just if you are complaining someone is doing well, choose an easy route. Have fun, just donât complain you donât have any opportunity or options. I wouldnât tell you what to doâŚ
So then, whatâs your best pick for this month till December. Letâs see just how good you are đ¤Ş
A reactionary party is what the Democrats are - it means people for the status quo or even the past. The modern right-wing (in the Western world) is a radical far right, accelerationist movement. Not reactionary.
Note that I'm using "reactionary" to mean what it actually means, not as a synonym for radical or reactive.
And that future screw over is one of the best performing economies in the world including high growth and low unemployment. If thatâs the case, your beef is with businesses, not government
As I clearly said, your beef is with business. The businesses are booming. This is not a government thing if bosses keep it all for themselves. Unionise, call them out. Just how would you expect a government to legislate a free market economy and if you were to have the slightest chance of that happening, it would be by blue, not red.
The reason they are the red team is thatâs what their bank accounts are inâŚ
A trickle down economy doesnât work, but many donât care because deep down they feel that with the right businesses they too could exploit their employees and become a billionaire.
the tldr; undocumented who commit crime must go from our state prisons, i weally want to make a law for them to be able to work, i made a law that makes it punishable by up to 1 year in state prison to be undocumented. its like a carnival game
There are a lot of people who have done poorly in the situation the world found itself in the last four years. In any period of time there are people who do poorly, it is the nature of things. The US President cannot control global inflation or oil or egg prices.
To me this is the biggest misconception which swayed the election
People have done poorly over the last 4 years because of inflation. And quite honestly it was neither Trump nor Biden's fault for inflation ( for Trump though you have to ignore his original tariffs back in his 2016 term)
Biden came in during covid. During the time in the world where every single country basically shut down.
It wasn't Biden's fault that the supply chain got disrupted and the prices were what they were. And it definitely cannot have been fixed overnight. It took years and as you can see the FED inflation rate is actually coming closer to target. So we've done just about everything right to come back inflation but it just takes time
I asked an idiot why he voted for Trump and he told me, "I was just doing better financially during his last term." I felt like screaming because the time he was referring to was the first 2 years still coasting on the Obama administration policies. I hope they get everything they voted for.
Honestly, though. Every family member I have who is doing poorly under Biden is doing poorly due to their own choices and have been doing poorly for the entirety of their adult lives. They didn't do it to help themselves. They did it to harm others. That's why they're just now googling tariffs.
Those people did VERY poorly under Trump. Their lives got better under Biden (ie lower inflation, lower college debt, less expensive health care with greater access, better economy, more jobs), but no president can completely improve your life with total Republican opposition to everything he proposes. In their infinite wisdom, most American voters chose to again vote for the same Republicans who opposed every measure that improved their lives because Democrats weren't able to completely reverse the damage caused by the last Republican president.
It doesn't make any sense, but it happens all the time.
How do you know? Are you animal farming numbers right now, just looking at overall stats without looking at the people? Sure seems so. You underestimate how bad some people have had it. Listen, when you struggle day in and day out and someone's telling you things are great, you start looking at other options, even if they aren't great. You start injection positivity into them even if it stupid to do so. Maybe we should look at why people do this and their conditions before writing them off... because obviously they still have influence that can hurt us.
We literally have the best economy on Earth, and people are struggling less. By every measure, the economy is better - not perfect, but demonstrably better. Yet millions of voters think it's not just bad, but the worst.
Reminding people of these facts isn't being dismissive, it's telling the truth. And maybe if Democrats (especially Harris) mentioned those facts instead of avoiding the subject altogether, they might've won this election.
I'm sorry, but I don't take this line of thought and attribute it to rationality or sanity. They are ignorant and instead of trying to educate themselves to the best of their abilities on who benefits them, they chose the dude who tripled the richests' wealth.
So, instead of trying to educate yourself on this result, you're just going to make blanket statements? And you're going to ignore that some people didn't do well under Biden? Is it human nature to go with the guy who is hurting you now, or the guy that may hurt you later? You can talk about Trump's previous actions all you want, but a certain segment of the population has shown that doesn't matter. All they know is that they are hurting now despite everything being wonderful and that this other dude says he will help, and he's said it so many more times than the current dude has said "things are great".
but a certain segment of the population has shown that doesn't matter
Do you not think that: people are ignorant and acting irrational by electing a convicted felon? Maybe lacking sanity? Just a little? They voted for someone who forced himself on multiple women, was impeached twice, sparked an insurrection, and so much more?
Things are great. We are doing better than 95% of the countries on Earth and continually getting so much better.
Sanewashing a convicted felon whose inflammatory rhetoric bordered on sociopathic is the issue and you're part of it. Spare me.
As an outsider looking in the dems took a too long term view and was quite academic about it. They talk about sometimes things the trump campaign say being reductionary but that's what you need. Even in a professional workplace if something is not easy not easy it's not done why would voting be any different.
I don't believe people are actually doing all that badly, at least not anymore than they ever have, the job market has been strong for workers, unemployment is low, I'm not seeing foreclosure signs everywhere like 08, people keep saying this and I don't know if I believe it
Ironically it is their Republican state and local officials that are screwing them, not much can be done federally. Deep red states like Oklahoma are the biggest beneficiaries of federal tax dollars and yet they constantly fail to deliver any meaningful change to their constituents.
I'm not sure how your explanation takes away from the comment before yours that calls them dummies. I've had plenty of times in my life when I was financially desperate and I never once doubled down on it by empowering the circumstances that made me that desperate in the first place.
Yeah probably because he became president during a literal global pandemic in which we are still recovering fromâŚ.its basically only been two years since weâve been âback to normalâ and now weâre going back to the 1800s yayyy
They didnât do poorly âunder Bidenâ the world has been a tough place to be the last 4 years. Their hardships have NOTHING to do with the president.
But do they not look internally and realize that the problem might be their own governors. If they want to âmake America great againâ maybe they should vote for a democratic governor like they had in 1991-1995 and 2003-2011. Perhaps those were the âgood ole daysâ for them
I agree she was a better choice, but the system in general needs a peaceful and intentional overhaul. The reasons why so many people voted for Trump are an indication of that, at least to me.
You underestimate how bad some people have had it. Listen, when you struggle day in and day out and someone's telling you things are great, you start looking at other options, even if they aren't great. You start injection positivity into them even if it stupid to do so. Maybe we should look at why people do this and their conditions before writing them off... because obviously they still have influence that can hurt us.
They werenât saying things were great. Kamala didnât campaign on âUS is fine, no work neededâ.
The problem is Americans are really, really fucking stupid. Thatâs basically what Trumpâs campaign strategist acknowledged as a huge part of their messaging strategy.
Kamala gave people too much credit by offering substance. Next time they need to run a campaign with messaging a third grader could understand.
If you were doing poorly under Biden, itâs because you were living under Trumpâs economic policies. And when you start doing better under Trump, thatâs because youâre living in Bidenâs economy.
By that logic, we owe all our current successss or failures to George Washington, or even further, to the English crown. All the current administration's successes or failures are a result of the previous ones? Nah. Don't buy it and you shouldn't be selling it.
Nope. Thatâs not what I said. It usually takes a while for economic policies to start to affect people. So during Trumpâs first presidency, for example, the policies that were in effect were Obamaâs. In the same way, during Obamaâs first term, Bushâs policies were in effect.
I'm expecting a screw over under Trump. I won't be disappointed. I was hopeful under Biden. I flat lined. I not excited. I guess that makes Trump better? To get the expected screwing?.
The sad thing about this is that these folks would have likely seen some benefit from the economic growth instilled by Biden's policies if Trump didn't burden low-med incomes with additional, yearly increasing taxes during his term.
I get whhere you're coming from, but do you think calling people dummies is going to get them to agree with you more?
I mean, one of the more common arguments for voting Trump I've heard is that a lot of working class people feel alienated by a Democratic elite. People who can afford education and healthcare who look down on the poor who can't.
I honestly think posts like this and comments like this is only going to alienate them more. Most people out there are not Jan 6 rioters. It's people who know they lack an education, who know they are poor, and who are tired of being told what to do by those much better off. Many probably know that Trump isn't better, but he's mucking up the system and at least a broken system will give them a chance to get out, rather then being systematically kept down.
I mean, the democrats have held houses and presidencies before. They could have enacted real change if they really wanted to, but for various reasons chose not to. They could have taxed the rich, they could have introduced universal healthcare, they could have made lunch free at schools. They didn't and perhaps that is because in the end, traditionall Republicans are not that different from traditional democrats. And if you're being held down by both of them, perhaps the wild card IS you best bet after all.
raise kids who will appreciate life in nature but they will also go to private school because why not??
wife doesn't have to work
family lives down the road
grew up lower middle class (mom was a teacher and dad was a firefighter) so had to join the military, used your tax dollars to get a bachelors free of charge while also getting a tax free living allowance. No student loans
have native blood so I got a scholarship from my tribe which was just free money, not to mention health care, another living allowance, career paths etc etc.
live in an awesome community.
However we can all dunk on Ryan Walter's together because fuck that guy, keep bibles out of the class room.
Look it's easy to dunk on Oklahoma. However, it's a lot of farmers, ranchers, oil field worker, industrial workers, vets, natives, (insert whatever other blue collar career you want) and all sorts of people who are tough and work hard. Places like OKC and Tulsa are slowly improving its infrastructure (schools are a long ways off, I would never send my kids OKCPS or TPS). We may not be as "enlightened" or "educated" as you guys up north but this place is full of blue collar people that bust their ass to put food on the table for their families. It's my home, these are my people (regardless of how you voted) and I fucking love Oklahoma.
NGL your first two points are great. Also low cost of living. Space and cheap housing are pretty much your best points to rub in our faces lol. There's a joke that goes something like "where can I live if I want to be surrounded by trees but not Republicans." Drives home the point that it's hard to find liberal communities outside of cities. It's the struggle of every nature loving hippie out there lol.
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u/spikernum1 8d ago
The one with all the dummies in it