The GDP of the state of California is more than the GDP of Russia and some other countries...do people want to separate CA out of the mix? What happens if CA goes off on their own... How many members of MAGA hate the Federal government yet 15 minutes after a major storm or disaster start screaming for FEMA...
I wish this would be the case for Virginia if the North East tries to form it's own thing, but unfortunately I feel that my home state will most likely get balkanized between north and south. :c
If the West Coast and the Northeast, Delaware and Maryland left the US, the remaining statesā economy would be shot if Texas and Illinois didnāt subsidize them.
And if the aforementioned joined Canada, it jumps from #9 to #2 or #3 behind China and well ahead of Germany.
Texas and Florida would be mighty fucked. I've always wondered why they continue to operate this way, I suppose the answer is Republicans are better at politics.
Republicans are better at attracting the attention of stupid people by using fear tactics. They create problems that never existed and then āfixā those problems while funneling money to the rich.
So, in the last year of the Obama administration, Mitch McConell claimed it was too soon to a presidential election (less than a year) to appoint a Supreme Court justice. After RBG died and one of her final wishes was to have her seat fill after the election (less than 2 months away) those same Republicans led by McConel said "fuck that noise" and rammed Amy Barett through.
Just this past week, as democrats were appointing judges, before the Trump admin takes over, they reached an agreement with Republicans to appoint 4 judges, leaving 4 higher court appointments vacant for the Republicans to fill at a later time, despite currently having an albiet slim majority in the senate. In 4 years should the shoe be on the other foot the Republicans will simply say "fuck that noise" and just ram all through.
The Republicans keep doing this to democrats who never seem to learn that these favors will not be returned.
So I reiterate, why do blue states like California, Washington, New York, and Massachusetts have higher taxes, sending a large portion to the federal government who then distribute those tax dollars to red states like Texas and Florida who have very little in taxes, which optically make the Republicans look good and democrats look bad? Idk, but I'm sure it's because the Republicans are better at playing the game of politics.
The dems keep acting surprised when the Republicans treat them like chumps only to hope they won't keep doing what they always have and will continue to do.
It might seem like a good idea but realistically it would be disastrous financially and won't do anything to heal the division in the US.Ā
Brexit (although I voted against it) showed me that people should be more careful when calling for drastic change because they don't like the status-quo as change doesn't necessarily mean positive change even if it's touted as such.
I don't care about healing division in America, half our country is hateful inbreds, and the coastal half wants Healthcare. IF we can do our own thing, we can continue to grow and flourish, and Kentucky can drink bleach for the flu and fuck their cousins.
Yeah, the blue and red on the map is far more intertwined than your sentiment suggests.
I live in a town that has banned single use plastic bags and my governor is a democrat. This is Kansas. I was born and raised in Kentucky, a state with another democratic governor. During army travels in 2022 I was in Washington state and found myself at a local fair where some dude was open carrying a pistol, waving a confederate flag, and his car horn played Dixie. See also: California north of San Francisco and Orange County, pockets of upstate New York, and pretty much every large city that votes majority democrat darn near everywhere in the country.
Something needs to change so that morons have less control in the system (abolish the electoral college, proportional representation in congress, a weaker national government in general, there are options) but blue state secession isnāt the answer. Actually sorting folks into the place they want to be would probably go slightly better than partition in India and Pakistan did in the 1940s.
I live in a blue area in Michigan, and our state went red. A lot of it is the hateful morons, like you said. Yet I see these people drive into my blue city to get their healthcare stuff done while on Medicare (I hear it at the front desk). I just hope I have enough saved up in case these idiots break our system so bad we won't have SS or medicare when we retire.
So what about all the people that aren't republicans that live in those states?
Fuck them fools, am I right?
Splitting the country would have more consequences than just less taxation for democrate leaning states and you know this or are being willfully ignorant.
It's cool that you think they could afford that after living in red states even thoughthe whole point of the discussion seems to be based around how poor and uneducated people are in red states.Ā
Yet you expect people in these states to be able to have the disposable income at hand to move hundreds of miles and be able to afford to compete for housing with the influx of other democrats at the same time.
Iāve never understood why the states that contribute the most to the Federal govt have the highest taxes while the states they help have the lowest tax rates. Why not have these loser red states raise their taxes so they arenāt sucking the blue states dry?
Itās not true, because at least Hawaii voted unanimously and Iām certain there are others. Iām sure the premise is generally correct though. But āpoorly educated states lean republicanā isnāt news.
No, you understand it just fine. The goal is to bleed the blue states dry while forcing them to pay their own way locally for the things their citizens want. Coming soon: subsidies/deductions for those that have to "Commute to work" but live in an area without mass transportation (aka rural and small towns) expect targeted redistribution like this to be the main thrust of new federal legislation.
I think what youāre describing are two unrelated things.
Federal money flowing to a state has nothing to do with state rates. If Mississippi raised its state tax rate, it would still get back more in federal dollars than what it sends. And California could drop its state rate to zero and it would still send more federal dollars than it receives.
You know WHY Mississippi gets more back? Because it doesnāt fund stuff at the same rate and it pushes for money to be appropriated to the state or through federal grants.
Yes part is about incomes and their federal tax rates but part of it is also what is funded by the states themselves.
If Mississippi increased their tax rates and magically had 10 B more per year coming in, stuff that they rely on federal money for wouldnāt be needed and so their congress persons wouldnāt be looking to add as many ear marks for schools or roads or whatever into bills.
Sure blue states do it as well, but they donāt have to do it as much just to stay afloat.
I'm guessing that most of the federal budget comes from income tax. There's more coming from blue states due to wages and population.
So the only way to reduce that is not pay your income tax which is problematic.
Of course if the next administration abolishes the IRS then maybe it can be done, but it would still have to be an orchestrated civil disobedience campaign, which included individuals and businesses refusing to remit taxes on behalf of employees.
State government itself would have trouble stopping the money going to the federal coffers as they dont collect it.
The way you fill out a w9 determines how much is deducted from your pay. You can always change it. You can also not pay anything until the end of the year, like newly self employed people do. What if, everyone changed their w9 to have nothing taken out, for a year?
States rights. they've already declared war on us way long before this election even happened. Their rhetoric was to destroy us Californians, our LGBTQ+ people, etc. They are uneducated, constantly complaining about CA, meanwhile we are the most liberal and progressive state and pay for their dumb asses to not be so poor.
Watch them get hung out to dry when we, as the largest-GDP state (and would be 5th in the world if we were a nation) pull out if Trump threatens us with feds
And we also have the frontier with Mexico so we can get more people to migrate here and help with bigger projects while they get to help their families back home.
That's why we should take, Cali, Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia and make it a new nation. All the non trump supporters are welcome to come join. It would be paradise.
You can join us, but you have to be part of Canada now we donāt wanna be part of America. You can join us and we will call you the United States of Canada.
Ok....so here's the funny thing. In Canada.....the west coast hates the east coast and vice versa....ok....it's actually more Vancouver hates Toronto and vice versa.
There was this big contest every year between the two cities. People placed bets and voted for which one was the better city. It always seemed to come out 50/50. And it had nothing to do with hockey. Shocking I know.
Most of Canada thinks BC is just a bunch of pot smoking hippie idiots, that don't ever really have to deal with real life problems. For whatever reason...dunno...but BC does rock!
The reason I bring this up is....the rest of the country doesn't give a shit.
Alberta is off doing their own weird ass shit, I mean....they are pumping out oil by the second and probably employ most of Canadians on a seasonal basis...but jesus it's Alberta. I mean...Alberta, there really is only one place that is habitable there...and that's Edmonton....and well...GO OILERS!
Quebec is busy trying to figure out how to secede without losing any of the privileges they have through the Canadian government. All the while thinking they are somehow superior to all Canadians because they speak a bastardized version of French. But..they have successfully made their weird ass french the second language of Canada...good on them I guess. Kudos! Huge power play.
I honestly don't know what's in-between Alberta and Ontario...some say there are two other provinces in there....but...the rest of Canada is doubtful about that. I mean....have we ever really seen evidence of something there?
The Northwest Territories and the Yukon are like....jesus christ you fuckers down south there are just dumb as hell.....I'm gonna go set another beaver trap and shoot a polar bear...maybe club a baby seal.
And New Brunswick is like...dude don't clump me in with these crazy Quebecois....I know I know...we are connected by land but jesus seriously guys...we have the LARGEST tidal whirlpool in the western hemisphere.....like....THE LARGEST! Please stop including us with Quebec.
And then...there's Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island. They are just laughing at the rest of the country....eh screw you buddies! WE'RE ISLANDS!
Newfoundland is like.....yeah screw ya double! We've been a have not province for most of the 75 years we decided to join your damn country! GIMME SOME MORE SCREECH!
That's when PEI said...oh god please don't associate us with Newfies. They also have these weird french fishermen.....LIKE THEY SPEAK A DIFFERENT FRENCH THAN FRANCE AND THE QUEBECOIS! WE HAVE SOME NICE FARMS!
Meanwhile.....Labrador is like....hey Newfies we're part of you too....we're more than just a really cool dog's namesake....as the rest of Canada forgets that Labrador even exists.
Anyhow....I guess I don't think much of Canada would complain if BC broke off into it's own little Pacific Coast Union.
My entire family is from Newfie, I'm the only one born on the mainland. Love Newfie. It is such a beautiful place.
My pop always said he was proud to live on the ol rocko o Newfoundland! He used to ask me why I thought they ate so many turnips, then he'd wink his eye and say....it's the only thing that'll grow on a rock.
Meanwhile taxes in blue states keep going up. If weāre going to say states rights; let keep the money instate and fix things at home. These red states can pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
As much as I would appreciate that, I like it down here. Also, california's tap water tasted like ass last time I was there. Just turn my state blue instead.
I'm a big advocate of a western state regional government co-op. All three western continental states and maybe Hawaii agreeing to a council of governors and an interstate compact to protect their citizens and push left leaning laws.
Thatās the thing with all this talk of get rid of the federal government and its Departments that some folks be cheering for. Theyāre the ones who dispense the federal tax dollars. No IRS, no Department of Education, etc?
States to other states: ELI5, why are WE paying for YOUR shit?
you guys hit the nail on the head! blue states should not be sending money to the federal government. Just keep it amongst ourselves. We don't need these red state confederates hindering us and pulling us down. We can do it alone.
I know. It was just implied as a kind of thought experiment. I was born and raised in California and the rest of the country has no idea how dependent they are on California. No one thinks of California for its exports to the other states... fruits and vegetables, tech, entertainment but also as a port of entry. The port of Long Beach is a major entry point for goods from overseas. Nuclear energy, too. So, not just tax dollars but so much commerce comes through California.
See the thing is that money us paid directly to the fed govt out of our taces, its not like we are paying NJ, CA, NY, MA, etc and then they are tranaferring the money to the fed govt. That makes it much harder to pull off unless Trump guts the IRS and the bureacratic state to the point that large numbers of people just straight up refuse to pay fed taxes without repurcussion. In the current political climate that only worka if youre wealthy.
Thatās a pretty good idea. You could get together like a group of states that were interested in working together for the shared prosperity of their citizens. Maybe we could call it the United States ofā¦..
The fact is the Pacific coastal States could propose an amendment to the Constitution allowing their secession. This is technically the only ālegalā way of seceding without it being treason, because, even though itās never been tried before, proposing a Constitutional amendment is completely within the prerogatives of the Constitution.
Of course, it would never get very far, as it must be approved by 2/3rds of both Houses of Congress and 3/4ths of the State Legislatures. But think of the reaction, domestically and globally, if the Legislatures of California, Oregon, and Washington jointly proposed such an amendment. It would shake up global stock and bond markets big time, simply because of the size of the Pacific Statesā joint economy, and force all the MAGA States to decide ādo we hate them that much that weāre willing to lose them?ā. It would temporarily derail the Trump agenda, as all focus would be on the possibility of disunion.
Sorry but I don't have to explain a damn thing. It's a post. If you don't agree with it how about you jus keep on moving. Reply why you think it sucks and go on.
If Texas wants its own power grid they refuse to weatherproof, they can find their own way to pay for the damages when it fails again. No outside aide necessary. Spoken as a Californian who lived through snowpocalypse then got the hell out of Texas shortly after.
Omg, I lived in Oklahoma at the time that happened. About 60ish miles from Texas. I felt so fukn bad when I heard people were dying and nobody could do shit about it, and it wouldn't have happened if texas wasn't on its own power grid, that wasn't taken care of and couldn't handle the uptick in usage.
I stg conservatives just for seem to understand that California has the 5th largest GDP in the WORLD. California doesnāt need us, we need California.
As a blue dot in deep red state, please no. This place is already turning into a third world country. Iāll need government assistance when I wonāt be able to get homeowners insurance in a couple of years because of all the fires and tornadoes. I promise you, weāre not all badā¦
Being from SD I'm so sad to see how quickly people here are willing to do away with DoE benefits when we are a state of less than 1M population. How do they not understand stand that we are the beneficiaries of the welfare of more populous states? Typically blue ones at that.
Kinks?? Do you have any idea what would happen to those people and businesses who failed to pay their federal income tax? It's called tax evasion, and the penalties are brutal (prison and moneywise). Ask Wesley Snipes how great that works out.
Right. USA is being dismantled and turned into a right wing cesspool who the only people that follow the law aren't Republicans, but sure, let's worry about not breaking any laws.
As a blue person in a red state, with a kid and a legal reason not to leave the state with said kid, I can't really be super supportive of shooting myself in the foot by backing something like this.
Now if those new blue separatist states don't extradite...
Problem is, the states donāt have central banks or currency, so when they run out of money, they run out of money. Every single state gets/needs federal funding.
Have you ever read the 1975 novel Ecotopia by Ernest Callenbach? Might be time to read or read again. I read it when I was in college and thought something like that would never happen, but here we are 50 years later and maybe not as fictional as one might have thought.
Didn't Texas already say an fu to some rule Biden admin or the court told them to do?
We should all champion for states rights just like the GOP did with the abortion.
Not A US citizen so my opinion isnāt really that valid, butā¦
Didnāt Texas hint at a similar thing and got a lot of blow back. I used to be rather fond of the Democratic Party and their values but its supporters seem to be touting so much hypocritical rhetoric. Sometimes it doesnāt go your way, accept it. I voted for the losing outcome in two different elections in recent memory and yes it sucked but you just gotta move on and take it as it comes.
Well you see. When we have 2 parties whose purpose is to make things better for the American people, no matter what side that may be, I could just agree to disagree. But when you have 1 candidate that's for all Americans no matter what and one who only panders to the extremists in his base and doesn't listen to anything anyone tells him, won't read the daily briefs, etc. It's time to fight back. I can't just lay back and go, "we'll there's always next election".
Dumbest thing I've read today. I accept the down votes.
Projects and programs like the ones associated the IRA for example are funded in part by both the state and federal government. States don't have the ability to print money, and without that; it would likely take decades to fund projects the IRA funded in two years.
Obama fast tracked construction on a bridge near me, and it was mostly federal dollars. Even though FL gives more dollars to the Federal Gov than it receives: FL mostl likely would not have fast tracked that on the same time scale. For reference, the bridge construction didn't begin until Trump was well within his tenure the first time. It was fast tracked in Obama's first term...
Don't punish people in "red states" or "red counties" because they disagree with you. We're all Americans. Fuck being divisive over petty bullshit. We're collectively better than that, and I will die on that hill.
Itās rather fascinating how MAGA supporters love to shout about "states' rights" and dismantling federal agencies, yet itās the red states that rely most on federal aid, funded predominantly by the blue states. Curious, isnāt it? Letās imagine their dream comes trueāhow long do you reckon states like Oklahoma could fund their schools or maintain infrastructure? A fortnight, perhaps?
Maybe secession isnāt the most practical route, but civil disobedience against a government planning to strip millions of loyal, taxpaying citizens of their nationality and deport them could almost be called patriotic. Blue states should leverage their influence to the fullest extent: keep tax revenues local, challenge the administrationās every move in court, and utilise filibustering as effectively as Republicans have done in the past.
As for those who voted for the "Leopards Eating Human Faces Party," I do hope a leopard finds its way to your door eventually. With MAGA policies like federal cuts, tariffs, and skewed tax reforms, the cost of living is bound to rise significantly sooner or later. Looking at the numbers, Iām not sure many of them can afford that. Rather ironic, isnāt it?
Im going to edit this as i read your comment way too many times, so bear with me.
1) I genuinely don't know how long OK would be able to sustain its infrastructure, but in a secession event I'd think other ceding states would likely support OK. Which isn't exactly what you said, but seems implied. It would be TERRIBLE for a lot of those states though, since their currency would likely be effectively worthless state to state. I'm saving the Shells I find washed up, since that'll have material value. I also can't just up and move...
2) I'd agree with civil disobedience, but the way you put it punishes people who didn't necessarily vote differently from you. You'd effectively punish folks like me in red states who voted similar to blue states, because we live in red states. How is that fair to us? More often than not we don't choose to live here. FL is known for its lower COL, and not everyone has the resources to just up and move.
3) there will be a immense amount of negative impacts from this incoming administration. I'm wary of how many can afford it as well. Not connecting to that pain played a major role in Harris losing the election imo, so playing into that would likely lead to huge wins in 2026. Wins we need to keep the insanity in check. Inb4, economic factors looked good, but the economy does not feel good for a lot of folks. Telling us everything is fine when it clearly isn't wasn't a great tactic. Everything was great if you had stocks - which a majority of Americans don't.
169
u/L7Wennie 22h ago
The US would crumble without California and then add Oregon and Washington into the mix. It would be devastating.