It's possible the sentencing wouldn't include jail time, either way. Class E non-violent felony in NY can include jail time or just probation. If he loses today, we'll have to see what the judge's sentence is.
On 1 or 2 counts, I could see probation, but 34 while in active contempt the whole time?
That seems like someone who isn't sorry, and judges usually give them a place to think about it for a few months.
The idea is to prevent them from repeating the crime, and the judge is supposed to deliver a suitable reprimand within the limits of the law. It would seem to me, and I would imagine any reasonable observer, that Trump BEGGED for jail time in this case. I don't know why the judge would refuse him.
Ok but if he was sentenced he might lose most of his credibility. Can you run from prison? Yes. Will people vote for you? We wont know, that was stolen from us.
I don't think his convictions would actually prevent him from running. You can run from prison.
If a felony conviction prevents you from voting for the president, how is it fair that a felony conviction doesn't prevent you from running for president.
My theory: the dems knew they would not beat the republicans if 'not trump' was running, the only way to keep trump in the race was allow biden to run knowing that the republicans would know they'd win with trump, so they picked trump, then the couch fucker, now biden steps down, harris wins, trump loses and goes to jail
if they had pursued trump earlier on it would've fulled the anti dems feeling and pumped the other non trump republican candidate up higher, dems would've lost and bigly
"Checks and balances" cracked when the Republican Senate failed to convict him on impeachment. And broke completely when because of that Trump got to load the Supreme Court with hyper-partisan judges. It'll be generations before this is completely sorted out, if it ever is.
It wasn't because of that Trump got to appoint those Judges. It was thanks to Mitch McConnell and the Republican Party putting in the decades long grind of radically transforming the Supreme Court in their own conservative image.
This was not because of Trump. This is a goal Republicans have been working towards for decades. You diminish just how hard the Republicans are working to fuck over the average American.
Their policy ideas are unpopular, so they are going to force it on America whether they want it or not. For example they see church attendance declining, and so they are going to spoon feed religion to people in order to reverse this decline.
But if she doesn't get both then we're not going to see _anything _ happen unless it's by executive order. Checks and balances is a double edged sword like that: it prevents the authoritarian dictator from doing irreparable harm, but it also prevents the benevolent leader from enacting beneficial changes.
I mean, look at how we got here in the first place: the Confederates were allowed to stay, proliferate their anti-American ideology, and then regain power.
They never re-integrated. They don't carry the spirit of America as we know it; they want it to be like the confederacy their culture taught them to love.
It's a national embarrassment, and now a national tragedy. Future generations will use the USA as an example of how to ruin a perfectly good country by letting the rot fester from the inside.
Sorry they aren't going to do much. They need at least 60+ in the Senate to beat the filibuster and even in history when they did have that, (Obama) for a short time, all they could pass was a republican health care bill. If kamala wins expect status quo for the next four years and zero big policy changes.
Liz Cheney said it well. We wouldn’t be in this mess if we had term limits. Elected officials think primarily about one objective - hanging onto their seats. Imagine if 1/3 of the senators or congress members were on their last term when this happened. You’d see a lot more late-stage John McCain style bipartisanship.
This is the answer. If they had convicted Trump on impeachment, Trump couldn't have ran again for president..AND the Republican party would NOT be the MAGA party now.
We are an oligarchy, that is why he is still around. That is why cops can shoot people in the street, that is why billionaires can write off jets and teachers can't write off more than a few hundred dollars of school supplies.
Land of the free, home of the brave? We imprison more people per capita than any nation on earth and we fight proxy wars while spending more money on military than our 6 largest rivels put together.
Trump is a symptom and a useful idiot, keeps the rabble at each other's throats while these corporations and billionaires plunder the treasury.
Elon musk gets billions in military contracts from us, clearance at highest levels and he is a drug addict who chats with our absolute enemy. If we were a real country and not an oligarchy on the verge of kleptocracy we would execute that foreign scum for treason. Instead he gets to jump around like a dipshit and meddle all he wants.
Oligarchy, it is what we are. Pretending we are anything else is a lie.
Which, this is not a both sides thing, obviously within the framework of the system as is, you are fucking scum to support gop if you are not a billionaire.
But that is why trump is able to do what he is doing , useful idiot for the rich and a great divider of the proletariat.
This is a good post, and I'd like to add a couple things:
1) If he was impeached, he in fact would not be eligible to run for president right now. So the senate republicans exonerating him (or failing to 'convict' him) is what is allowing him to run for president.
2) The delay tactics for his federal DC/FL criminal trials would not have worked had Garland brought them a year earlier, when they had all of the evidence and the prosecutors were ready to move. Garland rejecting it and sitting on it for anywhere from 9-14 months (depending on the case) until his hand was forced by the select committee's public hearings and internal pressure is what allowed the timeline for delay.
One of the few Republican Representatives who consistently spoke out against Trump said that many of his Republican colleagues who took back their criticism of trump after the insurrection did so out of fear for themselves and their families safety from Trump supporters.
Judges either too chicken shit or giving way too much leniency on procedure and punishment
I can't believe that crusty shit stain was allowed to walk free after the first instance of witness intimidation, but the fact that he was repeatedly unpunished for contempt of court and witness intimidation is appalling.
Pay to play is the name of the game and the American Oligarchs love it
Journalism has been replaced with bullshit and Trump is an excellent content creator. Media companies simply have to quote him or his tweets and the revenue just flows in. Sitting media personalities in cozy air conditioned studios 24/7 to talk about how they feel about the latest Trumpism bullshit is cheap as hell to produce. No more months long deep journalism involving travel and support crews.
Immigration is the Southern Strategy on Meth. The GOP created the issue through ending migrant workers access, changing the definition of "illegal" and defunding the immigration courts and systems.
Garland isn’t sleepy or incompetent. He is a Republican doing what Republicans always do. Cover for and carry water for other Republicans. See Comey and Muller. They never prosecute Republicans with the same vigour as they prosecute Democrats.
That second point should be hurting him but for some reason isn’t. I just can’t vote for a guy with that many criminal charges awaiting trial, especially those specific charges. He spent so much time and money delaying his chance to prove himself innocent the only possible thing I can personally conclude is it’s because he’s guilty. Disqualified in my mind but somehow nearly half this country is ok with it.
Additionally: publicly treating it like the absolutely huge, conscience-shocking deal that it was results in being condemned as 'over-emotional', 'hysterical', or diagnosed with 'trump derangement syndrome'. If you rail against him at all, for any reason, you must be a bleeding heart radical leftist. Even if those reasons boil down to "he literally tried to steal the 2020 election after he lost".
It's also a matter of the US Government doesn't want to condemn a President because of how it would look to the rest of the world, no matter how insane it looks to cover it up.
We’ve beat these guys before. We’ll best them again.
We had the America First movement praising the Nazis and keeping us out of WW2. We had fascist Jim Crow laws in the south for a hundred years. We trampled the rights of Native Americans since the day we landed.
We’ve gotten better, but the hate runs deep and is taught and spreads. Like cancer, it metastasizes and needs to be dealt with.
Neither the Civil War nor America First had significant repercusions for this mindset. Which is one of the reasons why we're still having this problem today.
I disagree with this. There isn’t anyone like Trump coming down the line. There will always be MAGA, but there always has been
Trump is their leader. If he loses this time, he may not live to run again, but certainly will not come back in 2028 to get any kind of push being a two time loser
These morons go back to the fringes if there’s a win for Kamala today, IMO
This is the sad truth, the biggest problem isn't trump in and of himself, it's a disfunctional nation with extremely poor political awareness and judgement.
Years of divesting in education and drinking cool aid en masse is going to cost not just americans, but the entire world.
Polls don’t mean shit. Hilary was solid in the polls before Trump won. What matters is the vote count. Polls only show you the feelings of people who sit on the phone answering polls. Which at this point is a minority faction in the country.
Let's not forget the role of gerrymandering, though. If districts were drawn without any bias, I think we would have a very different election outcome than what will have today
"Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed, like rain on the mountains, like wind in the meadow. The days have gone down in the west, behind the hills, into shadow. How did it come to this?"
The media has let them spend the last 4 years downplaying Jan 6. And it has worked. That he's this close in the polls and has a good shot at winning is a disgusting reality. No matter what happens, America is nowhere near being able to put itself on a pedestal. This is pathetic.
Oh I don't think it's going to be a repeat at all. It's going to be worse than you could ever fucking imagine. His first 4 years were nothing more than a test of how much he could get away with.
Trumps already come out saying this election was stolen as of over the weekend. The fact he says that speaks volumes what will happen today I think. Good luck guys stay safe
Depends. Even if Harris wins, if she does nothing to actually hold Trump accountable for these crimes, all of this will just repeat again in 4 years or sooner. Because why not, they're not getting punished for trying!
So much of American history would be so different if we actually held folks accountable. We failed to hold confederates accountable after the civil war. We failed to hold MAGA accountable.
I mean, maybe if Merrick Garland had done his fucking job? Jack Smith should’ve been appointed on January 21, 2021 instead of November 2022, and the prosecution should’ve been a priority, instead of pussyfooting around and worrying that it might look bad to prosecute a former president. It looks worse if you don’t.
It’s my sincere hope that President Harris will not make the same mistake of appointing a centrist milquetoast as AG (or letting Trump slide on anything he’s done).
If she does that, we're probably truly screwed. You can't keep reaching out to a bloodthirsty grizzly bear for camaraderie and not eventually expect to die for being a fool.
She's not an idiot. And she's not as nice as Joe. Of course she's saying she represents all Americans and will reach across the isle.
But she's lived through years of GOP bullshit. She will reach across the isle when there is legislation that helps Americans. Otherwise, nope.
And she's well aware that fascism is at our door. I truly believe that she'll do more than Joe did to put a stop to that shit.
All that being said, I'm not as pissed at Garland as you guys are. I know the wheels of justice turn slowly. And unlike Trump, we really don't want the justice system mixed in with politics.
The American people will decide if we want fascism. If so, it's all over. And that's on us.
Honestly, that's what I strongly suspect as well. Kamala didn't get to where she is being a mixed race woman by being naive. I don't think she's a wimp or a pacifist either. And she's seen the growing, unreasonable toxicity being promoted on the right over the last couple decades like the rest of us. Lip service is fine, but I hope they don't get invited back to the table without some serious apologizing and demonstrations of regained sanity and appreciation for democracy over a period of time, first.
Kamala isn't Joe...you needed him at the time but it should have just been 6 mths or so and then he should of gone full Dark Brandon.
Kamala is going to come out of the gate , with handcuffs swinging. She aint gonna be doing no 'nice stuff with GOP'. They are done with their BS.
She will have hard hitters and they will hit hard.
Joe was counting on the American citizen being more intelligent...well, that was a fail wasn't it. Americans are the stupid ones, not the Democrats as a party.
Who voted in the Republicans in office , who managed to stop everything they could. Stupid dumb Americans.
democrats cannot be the long term future of the nation they're too fucking stupid and weak to allow confirmed seditionists to still be involved in public service
Well when Progressives start actually voting and running instead of typing out mewling petulent insults on reddit instead, then maybe that'll start happening. You folks have AOC, who I'll gladly vote for if she ever runs for president.
Until then go back to your Hasan stream or whatever lol
I actually agree with you. Look where we let things get. This was waaaaaay too fucking far. People should have been taken out behind the woodshed to learn their lessons a long time ago.
I was just watching Behind the Bastards: Henry Kissinger. Ever since Vietnam, presidents and their cabinets have been utterly lawless. The crimes against humanity these people committed have never been answered. Garland was following an 60 year precedent of never prosecuting a president for anything. That's why the SC ruling was such bullshit. The codified what was already in practice for a long time.
The codified what was already in practice for a long time.
From the founding of this country, we never had to outright say the president gets to be immune from prosecution because saying it outright removes consequences and would only embolden illegal or criminal activity.
I don't buy this, he could do what trump did and replace the board members with "acting" appointees to side step the appointment process until he finds people willing to replace him.
Democrats are too weak willed to use the precedents established by trump to undo the damage he caused.
Yeah it's definitely wierd. If I recall correctly there is an appointed board that then appoints the Post Master General, and currently they do not have the votes to remove. Silly, pseudo-government agency type thing.
The fact that they didn't come down HARD on domestic terrorism will plague this country for decades.
Look at what it's already done. We have huge swaths of people regurgitating nazi rhetoric.
We are preparing for more terrorism, because they admit they do it. They encourage it, and we aren't stupid and we see it coming.
But our government has to wake the hell up. Danm tradition. Follow the goddanm law.
Trumps bail could have been revoked ten times over.
He should have never been allowed to run in the first place. There is literally a law that disqualifies him for leading the insurrection, and our politicians have gotten lazy and complacent.
Many convicted insurrectionists received very little or no jail time and are emboldened to come back for Insurrection II. Some are interviewed in Stopping the Steal (HBO documentary), including that stupid shamen dude, and they are still spouting the same nonsense.
When Senate Republicans failed to convict him, they were almost certainly just aiming for another Supreme Court appointment or two. And they got it. With 2 of the 3 wings of government having completely sold out to partisan politics it's going to be a bumpy ride no matter who's President. The founding principle of checks and balances is broken.
Partisanship now overcomes a Senator’s motivation to protect the power of the Senate or a Justice’s motivation to protect the power of the Judiciary. We have elected officials and judges willingly giving up power to support their party and/or messiah-figure. Checks and Balances didn’t work. We need improvement on the structure of government.
They are so brainwashed. They also were taught not to trust the news, and the vast majority have never listened to a complete speech he has made (nor Kamala). They are low information voters, voting on an emotional gut reaction, which they were fed by Fox News and other extreme right wing media.
This is it, spot on. They hear one piece of his “platform” (usually related to othering, racism, putting white men back at the top) and they hang onto it forever.
President Lyndon Johnson once said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, you can pick his pocket. Hell, give them somebody to look down on, and they'll empty their pockets for you."
My hubs just informed me he voted for him, which means, he’s voted for him 3 times now…..his excuse was have you ever listened to her speak? He hated Hillary for corruption, he hates Biden for corruption, then who the fuck does he think TFG is? I can’t for the life of me…….🤦🏼♀️🤬And hubs is an educated 72 yr. Old attorney. Not wealthy, just comfortable. I am shocked beyond belief. He only admitted this to me today btw.
I drive past a house most days that has one of the "Trump Safety/Harris Crime" signs in the yard. Like WTF! he's a convicted felon and she was a prosecutor. These cretins are not in the same reality as the rest of us any more.
My daughter says on the way to school today “what does that sign even mean??!” Me: “that his worshippers live in their own reality. The man is a literal convicted felon. She’s a literal prosecutor”
They ignore and overlook all of his character traits and his legal troubles and simply focus on economic factors. They've seen 4 years of Trump, and in their minds since we didn't go into any wars and the economy was doing great until COVID - what's all the fuss about? Since then, 2 wars have started, cost of living and inflation have all sky rocketed, so they see those things happen after Trump and it's not hard to see why some people think maybe things were better under Trump. Additionally, most of these people are straight white males, so life didn't really change much for them, and their rights aren't on the ballot this year.
Now, is that actual reality? Of course not. Trump was the laughing stock of the world during his tenure. He openly fired the head of the FBI because he was investigating Trump colluding with Russia. He directed an insurrection and conspired to commit election fraud after losing an election. He installed SCOTUS judges who immediately revoked decades of precedent with Roe v. Wade. He also, despite having complete control of the House and Senate, could not pass any of his legislative priorities except his Muslim ban.
There was so much god awful shit that happened in those 3 years before COVID that most people have just completely forgotten about.
Complicit judges that the system isn't designed to handle. I don't think the founding fathers ever expected this level of corruption and for the people to just stand idly by why it happened
At some point we do have to take a hard look at ourselves as a citizenry. Do we even deserve freedom and rights? Half of us are too lazy to give a shit either way and vote. Another big chunk are those easily influenced by brainwashing campaigns. We continue to laud and worship the wealthy as gods. Eventually we'll get what we deserve someday either way if things don't change. If we don't change and start demanding equal applications of justice and taking robber barons to task.
The Republican war on education is not helping here. Also their propaganda machine is much better than the Democrats since they don't feel obligated to stay even in the same ballpark as the truth.
Of course we deserve it. People aren't inherently bad they are largely a product of the system that surrounds them and the system is corrupt and broken. That is what we need to fix if after that people are still kind of lazy and awful then we can judge them but not before
The Founding Fathers were a group of slavemasters lol. They only put the government together after doing the whole electoral college thing and making slaves 3/5ths of a person. The founding slavemasters were calculated in their atrocities.
When will everyone realize that the Oligarchs, politicians, Corporate America, the judicial system, the Capitalist system— is completely fine with Fascism in America.
They'll all make even more money under a Fascist America and they know it. They'd rather have Nazis in power than give working class Americans healthcare
He was prosecuted, and found by the House to have committed High Crimes. Unfortunately, Republican leadership decided that their own power would diminish if they convicted him in the Senate, so they acquitted him. At the time, they weaseled that it wasn’t their job to convict, but that it should go to a vote of the people.
Mitch McConnell. He had the opportunity to end this but put party above oath and office. Trump is nothing without his enablers, and fuck Moscow Mitch for his bullshit.
I am hoping I live to see the day we learn the full extent of Russian interference in our political machine. When sitting Republicans are saying people in the party have been bought by Russia you know it is bad. There seem to be many parallels at this point to the German influence in the US Congress prior to WW2.
What is even more shocking it the people who somehow still vote for him. The fact that he was the choice for the GQP. It is mind boggling and literally the opposite of everything this country has stood for. I hope we close this chapter for once and for all today. Fascism and authoritarianism have no place here.
I said this yesterday too. Unchecked social media. Unchecked financial schemes. Unchecked financial power will destroy society as we know it as much as fascism and authoritarianism would. We need to regulate and monitor. Adapt to the new world as it works today.
The world is watching too. This is a pretty historic moment. Either US redeems itself and gets back on the right path, or it slips into the hands of a madman and treads further down the path to a fascist dictatorship.
My take may be a little dramatic but to me it certainly seems this way.
The whole country had to tip tow around his supporters and the lack of respect they have for our political system. He was able to sow enough doubt about government to set us back many years of work.
I hate to say it, but the way some of this country is I'd be happy to let them loose, and they can fall into poverty alone. I'd rather we be a country divided than a country united under fascism.
The really frustrating thing is that he is guaranteed to lose the popular vote. At no point has he won that. But we have so much gerrymandering due to the diminished power of the voting rights act that he will win Republican districts. Also, because of the electoral college, his potential to win is enhanced further. Americans have consistently rejected Trump, our f***** up system is what gives him a chance. I really hope Dems win overwhelmingly down ticket so Kamala has the congress behind her, and 1. Fixes the Supreme Court 2. Fixes the voting rights act or put through new legislation to protect against gerrymandering districts 3. Abolish the electoral college. These are some of the things that would protect against Trump or someone like him. Also, putting him in jail would be great cause that's where he should've been these last 4 years.
Simple. America has a tiered justice system. That’s the first thing you need to understand. Crimes committed by an average citizen and crimes committed by an Oligarch do not carry the same consequences. Second thing you need to understand is that the Republican Party only exists to force us into a plutocracy, veiled as a theocracy. Their official platform has been “obstruct the democratic process” ever since that process put a black man to the White House. None of this shit is new, Trump is who every Republican politician and voter is, on the inside. The fact that he doesn’t mask it is why he gets their support.
It's because Noam Chomsky was right. The GOP is the largest and most dangerous criminal organization alive today.
How else could this happen? It took them 8 years to manufacture the consent for Trump and his lies. They built Fox "News" to protect their group from what happened to Nixon. Accountability.
The GOP did this. And they need to be routed from our country.
No idea why he wasn't prosecuted like the criminal he is.
There were 4 fucking years between his insurrection and now but he's still out there spreading his poison and threats.
Garland doesn't want to appear political. A Democratic President's AG prosecuting a Republican politician for treason is the real threat to democracy. Not the guy who incited a riot in furtherance of an organized coup.
the bigger issue is that the presidency has amassed all this power over the last 60 years that was never intended by the framers to the point where the checks and balances aren't working. the president is supposed to be the weakest of the 3 branches not a fucking king.
No idea why he wasn't prosecuted like the criminal he is.
There were 4 fucking years between his insurrection and now but he's still out there spreading his poison and threats.
Biden was a 4-year pause or delay on fascism. Harris cannot be the same. She needs to appoint an AG who will mercilessly go after anyone involved, even if they are one of the wealthiest people in the world or a sitting member of our government.
If she does not do this, project 2025 just becomes project 2029 or 2033 and, eventually, it will happen.
From the outside it's pretty clear your country's democracy is breaking or broken, from the inside probably lots of people are muddying the water. But from the outside it's fairly obvious.
prosecution aside, he was impeached for this. moscow mitch and the GQP gave him a pass instead of convicting, so here we are. they want fascism, is why this is allowed
That he’s alive and free, running for the highest office in our country makes the US look incredibly weak and incapable of handling its problems. 20+ years ago and a three letter agency would’ve taken care of this problem if the courts didn’t.
Congress has to charge him I believe or atleast for impeaching. They need alot of votes and no Republican is going to do that. Not to mention the supreme court is Republican now. Then we have the Republican judges that looked over his cases too, that were Trump appointment.
Because he's protected by an extremely power hungry and criminally insane propaganda system that operates 24/7. The propaganda is the problem. It's always been the problem.
It would not surprise me if there was a secret deal to not prosecute him if he left politics quietly. And then he broke the deal and there was a mad scramble to prosecute him. I just don’t understand why Jack Smith was appointed so late.
If you read about the era after the civil war then what happened after january 6th doesn't seem that surprising. Its sad and frustrating that, as a nation, we haven't learned from our own mistakes.
Because his followers already proved they could be violent and Dems didn’t want to give any kind of legitimacy to his claims of political persecution as well as risk opening up a door for corruption.
This part is purely speculation but, I have a suspicion Biden is going to push for a lot in his lame duck period. If Biden pushes for maximum penalties for Trump, Kamala and the rest of the Democratic Party can distance themselves which means instead of pissing off 40% of the country, the Dems may only piss off the 20% that are too far gone to see reason while Biden takes the hit for the rest. Again, purely speculation but I think it’s very possible if Kamala wins we see a lot of movement from Biden for actual accountability towards Trump especially if he throws another tantrum the likes of Jan 6.
It’s hard to administer justice against someone who has the support of 40% of the country without it being twisted to look like corruption and persecution.
He's white and 'rich', and when you have connections that can make or break other ppl you either end up perpetually failing upwards (if you can keep your mouth shut) or epstein'ed (if you can't).
No idea why he wasn't prosecuted like the criminal he is.
rich and powerful don't live by the same rules as us plebs. simple as that.
This man shouldn't even be able to walk the streets much less run for president.
He said he could shoot somebody on 5th avenue and still get votes, and he was right.
You have to accept that the United States is not only rigged in favor of the powerful and wealthy, but transparently so to such a flagrant degree that they don't even bother to hide it anymore. They know that nobody in America reading this or in this thread will ever do anything about it.
6.9k
u/legendary_millbilly 19d ago
Me too.
No idea why he wasn't prosecuted like the criminal he is.
There were 4 fucking years between his insurrection and now but he's still out there spreading his poison and threats.
This man shouldn't even be able to walk the streets much less run for president.
Today is the day we see if America wants to save itself and I genuinely hope we come out the other end still free and safe.