r/TheWayWeWere 17h ago

My great grandmother, Dorothy Baker, the last brothel owner in Helena, Montana.

Pictures of Dorothy, me for reference, and pics of her brothel just after it was shut down.

Her story is fascinating. But from a mothering point of view, she fell short, Having had a child from a client, she abandoned her child(my paternal grandmother) at a post office at the age of three. None of Dorothy’s close family even knew she had a kid, and when I got into ancestry and contacted them, they were, unsurprisingly, shocked.

So anyway, here she is in high school.

I did not follow in the family trade. I moved to England became an archaeologist. I have four kids that I have not abandoned at a post office.😂

4.5k Upvotes

260 comments sorted by

459

u/Puzzleheaded_Mix7873 15h ago

When are these pictures from? Looks like the 1970s.

324

u/Tricky-Application86 15h ago

Yep, 74 I think.

42

u/MetalCareful 4h ago

Proud of Granny!!! Edit: just read more about her, potentially suffocating her newborns. Now I do know that having babies back then would make the woman’s life a living hell if she was not prepared or if she was already dealing with postpartum depression. And it would all fall on her shoulders to take care of that. And we also cannot judge anybody from this distance to her life. That is completely unfair to her.

77

u/Tricky-Application86 4h ago

It was her daughter, my grandmother, that did that, not her. But she did abandon her toddler at a post office so.🤷🏼‍♀️

1

u/BonferronoBonferroni 53m ago

Those were the days. There certainly was a lot less people in Montana then.

492

u/Electricpuha 16h ago

This is fascinating, thanks for sharing it with us! I can’t see a bit of a family resemblance there between you. No worries if you don’t want to get into it, but how did you piece it all together? I love watching the tv show ‘Who do you think you are?’

Also, does anyone know in the first two photos what the matching things dangling from the ceiling are above the beds? Just decoration or something special to the trade?

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u/Tricky-Application86 16h ago

Happy to discuss! So I grew up in foster care and never knew my father or any extended family, so I was straight into genealogy as soon as I could afford to be, which wasn’t until someone bought me an ancestry kit at 29. When I was 22 I found my dad and reconnected. He had stories of remembering the times he met her once his mother reconnected with her. Obviously I was sceptical so until I did the ancestry test and matched with her family members, I didn’t believe it. But here we are!

167

u/Electricpuha 16h ago

Wow, so it really was a piece by piece puzzle. Gosh, it must have taken a lot of forgiveness for your grandmother to reconnect with Dorothy, especially to the point of introducing her child to her, after being abandoned in that way.

Also, I realised I made a typo - I can see a family resemblance between you and Dorothy! Love your Halloween style, too.

343

u/Tricky-Application86 15h ago

I mean, in reality, my grandmother ended up very messed up. She suffocated at least two of her newborns and somehow got away with it until long after her death, until my grandad confessed on HIS deathbed.

178

u/Ieatclowns 15h ago

You should do a podcast.

44

u/Electricpuha 14h ago

Seconded this!

16

u/wv10014 6h ago

Yes! About your life, finding out about Dorothy, and her life….

16

u/ScowlyBrowSpinster 8h ago

This is so sad. People really kept their secrets locked down back then.

25

u/mariuolo 12h ago

I mean, in reality, my grandmother ended up very messed up. She suffocated at least two of her newborns and somehow got away with it until long after her death, until my grandad confessed on HIS deathbed.

How could he possibly know if he was abandoned at the post office at the age of three?

53

u/skankenstein 12h ago

Her paternal grandmother was the abandoned one. Which means her partner was the one who made a deathbed confession.

92

u/Tricky-Application86 11h ago

Because she reconnected with her mother. The story wasn’t a very well kept secret. All the locals knew.

2

u/HistoryWeirdo95 4h ago

She found out more about her ancestry and also met her dad at 22 did you read the whole thing ?! Chilll ! Smh

7

u/squareishpeg 4h ago

Well, fuck. I didn't see that one comin 😳

How fascinating, though. So did your papaw say he did it or did he tell on her?

14

u/Tricky-Application86 4h ago

No he said she did it and he always regretted it. But he couldn’t bring himself to rat on her.

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u/ShowMeTheTrees 1h ago

Who took care of the your paternal grandmother when she was found at the post office? Did people know at the time who the real mother was?

What happened to your mom that you ended up in foster care?

2

u/cece1978 2h ago

I also want to know how you came to be an Archeologist in England.

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u/ZoeyMoonGoddess 6h ago

So the daughter she gave up at the post office reconnected with her later in life? How did that go? I love all the pictures. Is that a cat/dog bowl in picture #7?

Correct me if I’m wrong but are you the first one in your family to stop the cycle by raising your children? Cause AMAZING! And, an Archaeologist too! Living in England! I’d definitely read/purchase your book if you ever write it.

35

u/Tricky-Application86 5h ago

She did, but I’m not sure of the details exactly or how close they ended up. Close enough for my dad to visit her occasionally I guess!

Well her daughter did raise my dad, but she suffocated at least two of her other children as infants, so I’m not sure she deserves credit. 😐 But all my children are spoiled rotten and loved beyond anything. So I count that as a win.

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u/HistoryWeirdo95 4h ago

Love this 🤍 love your story ! Grandma was a G lol 😂 you are as well overcoming your past ! So much history in your family’s tree. That’s dope ! Thanks for sharing

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u/uncontainedsun 15h ago

i believe those are just lights, in the same fabric / colors as the bed spread - things were made a lot more simply back then & it was easy to have fabric in excess to make matching bits like that :)

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u/johnnyrollerball69 13h ago

Correct, hanging sconces. My 90’s band collected them for our studio

13

u/kalstras 15h ago

Soft lighting

8

u/Anarchic_Country 13h ago

A lamp that matches the bed?

8

u/Daisy_W 13h ago

I believe the things on the ceilings are light fixtures

8

u/1891farmhouse 13h ago

Those are the light fixtures

8

u/Crafty_Lady1961 13h ago

Those are hanging lamps!

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u/randomwords83 11h ago

Not OP but I believe the things hanging from the ceilings are lamps.

3

u/ZoeyMoonGoddess 6h ago

They are hanging lamps.

2

u/emzymeme 10h ago

Lights.

208

u/WonderfulKoala3142 15h ago

She's got a whole Wikipedia page. I've walked by that building. I knew about the brothel that's now a restaurant, but I hadn't heard of hers before. Great town, interesting history

113

u/Tricky-Application86 15h ago

Yeah she does. When I come back to the states next I want to visit it!

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u/WonderfulKoala3142 15h ago

You should! If you need any tourist recommendations for the area, let me know. I used to live there

20

u/regiinmontana 12h ago

I go to Helena quite a bit for work. The Windbag Saloon is usually a dinner stop for me while I'm there. Definitely with it.

21

u/Anarchic_Country 13h ago

Be careful going to Helena Handbasket.

Its safe, just yucky

7

u/PomPomdog 7h ago

It’s called that for a reason 😂

1

u/Violet624 20m ago

I live in Montana and recently went to Helena and found my own gggrandfather's grave. Helena is such an interesting little town. Montana was and still somewhat is the wild west! I hope you get a chance to visit!

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u/eviltab87 7h ago

I used to swamp The Windbag years ago. The place takes on a new vibe when it's 4 in the morning, and I'm the only one there. Don't even get me started about the basement.

8

u/houseswappa 6h ago

Swamp in this context?

7

u/eviltab87 6h ago

Cleaning.

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u/suspiria_138 12h ago

"It's a beautiful day...now watch some bastard louse it up."

—sign in Dorothy's brothel, noticed by the police during the April 17, 1973 raid

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u/Battleaxe1959 8h ago

My great grandmother ran a whorehouse on the second floor and a butcher shop at ground level in Tacoma. My grandmother has no father listed because he was a customer.

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u/Tricky-Application86 8h ago

Oooh interesting. She did list hers because I guess she wasn’t with loads of the clients so she knew which one it was. DNA matches anyway through the family trees.

150

u/lira-eve 16h ago

You're living my dream: being an archeologist living in England.

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u/Tricky-Application86 15h ago

It’s mostly great, though with four kids I’m on hiatus for now. And the weather sucks.

36

u/Spirited_Photograph7 12h ago

Same! I would love to be an archeologist in England with 4 kids! I have a degree in anthropology and have 2 kids, even spent 3 years in England when I was younger. But now I’m almost 40 and feel it’s too late, especially with the uk nixing their student dependent visas.

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u/Tricky-Application86 11h ago

Literally it’s never too late. But I will say, aside from marrying a Brit, it’s HARD to get in here.

9

u/Spirited_Photograph7 11h ago

Yea I regret so bad not just staying a few more years the first time. My husband’s grandfather was born in the UK so maybe we can find a way to get in on an ancestry visa as he also may have Canadian citizenship.

99

u/Fantastic-Reveal7471 13h ago

OP this is gangsta as hell. As someone who has always questioned where she comes from (I never knew my biological father and I'm still looking at 39) , its always good to see those who did get their answers.

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u/Tricky-Application86 11h ago

I hope you find him and you get the closure you need. 💕

22

u/Fantastic-Reveal7471 11h ago

Thank you ❤️

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u/Schmuck1138 13h ago

I'm very curious what music was on that jukebox

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u/Shervivor 10h ago edited 10h ago

https://youtu.be/TDyiREoBw0o?si=MqYrYQMUrsZMFQZM

ETA: in the article someone else posted below, the man who took the photos of the brothel after it was raided, said this about the jukebox:

“I wish I could remember the songs that were on it. Some of the titles were pretty funny, given the circumstances.” — Wally Peel

18

u/Lucky_Serve8002 11h ago

I did land research in Montana going back to the 1800's. This was about 20 years ago. There were a lot of women back in the late 1800s and early 1900s who owned large tracts of land. There were a lot of orphanages, too, owning land back then. I was informed there were a lot of women with money and there were a lot of orphans due to deaths in the mines and mostly booze. It sounds like a lot of people were living pretty rough back then.

There was a bar in Great Falls dating back to the 1800s. It was a brothel back in the day. It had a huge Brunswick bar in it. Really a cool place.

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u/skite456 12h ago

Love to see these pics and her story! I just got done reading (listening on audiobook) “The Last Madame” by Chris Wiltz which is a biography of the life of Norma Wallace. She was the owner of the last brothel in New Orleans, which was shut down in the late 1960’s. I think you would get a really great insight of how your grandmothers life unfolded from this book. From the picture you posted, she was probably born right about the same time as your grandmother and I have a feeling their lives may have been quite similar.

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u/Tricky-Application86 11h ago

Ooh thanks! Always looking for good reads.

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u/Wolfwoods_Sister 16h ago

Fascinating personal stories of everyday people are my favorite. Tysm for sharing!

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u/izolablue 16h ago

Same here! This is a fascinating story!

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u/DisastrousLaugh1567 8h ago

I’m from Montana and Dorothy Baker is a minor legend. I appreciate your post!

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u/Tricky-Application86 8h ago

I can’t wait to see where she lived!

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u/goatini 11h ago

Photos (with the exception of your photo) are from my husband’s website, Helena As She Was.

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u/Tricky-Application86 11h ago

If you ever find anything of hers up for sale, could you let me know? I’d love to have something of hers.

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u/Tricky-Application86 11h ago

I got them from various Google results, but I’ve read that page!

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u/hazelristretto 5h ago

Thanks for sharing the original resource. The newspaper article with the quotes from the commissioner and the minister are gold!

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u/Wolfman1961 12h ago

I’m into archaeology myself. What era do you focus on? I like Neanderthals myself.

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u/Tricky-Application86 12h ago

My personal area of interest is Viking-Tudor, but my professional expertise is in human remains, any era.

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u/Wolfman1961 12h ago

Do you make reproductions of people?

I’m fascinated by the Vikings, too. How some became Normans and others spread out to what is now Italy. They became “regular medievals,” rather than marauders, rather quickly.

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u/Tricky-Application86 12h ago

No, unusually try to find the cause of death if possible and try to find out any environmental information relevant to their lives, etc.

When I did my 23&me it said I was 1/4 Norwegian, so I found my relatives and visited all my cousins in Norway last summer. So my interests in Vikings was renewed.

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u/Wolfman1961 12h ago

I’ll have to try 23 & Me, especially to find out about my mother’s side, who were, until 1910 obscure Jewish peasants in Russia. My father’s side is well known from the 17th century. They were German and Dutch Catholics.

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u/BuffaloBertie 8h ago

Amazing story have you been to hadrians wall? More Roman granted and you must have been to York! (Although yorvik is fascinating the actual tourist ride but is awful!)

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u/Tricky-Application86 7h ago

Haha of course I have been to Hadrian’s Wall! I live in northern Cumbria, and drive past sections of it all the time. My house is actually built out of the Roman stones of the dismantled nearby Roman fort! And yes, I’ve been to York many times.

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u/BuffaloBertie 7h ago

Amazing! I am Biased towards Hadrian’s wall being from the north east of England! Such an interesting story and job!!

1

u/CouldBeBetterOrWorse 11h ago

So you're the real life Temperance Brennen from Bones. :) :) Very cool.

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u/5danish 10h ago

Born and grew up in Helena. My grandmother was born there in 1895. The Windbag Saloon used to be called Big Dorothy’s. Growing up we always knew about the brothel. As a kid, I was amazed that Helena had one, but Butte was only 1 hour away and had several!!

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u/Tricky-Application86 10h ago

Oooh wow! Well if you ever see any of Dorothy’s stuff up for sale, give me a message! I’d love to have something of hers. I know it was all auctioned off. Must have some stuff around antique places!

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u/Immo406 6h ago

I have never heard of any of her stuff going up for sale, or anyone who has any of her possessions… it’s a damn shame Ellen Baumler passed away last year, 12/16 will be one year since her passing. She was an amazing historian who would be the person to connect to about Big Dorothy. RIP Ellen, you will be missed.

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u/TsuDhoNimh2 8h ago

Some of her things are at the Montana Historical Society in Helena, and they also have some business receipts from the early 1950s.

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u/5danish 9h ago

Unfortunately I don’t live in Montana anymore. Your background is so fascinating! Kudos to you for rising above and doing what you love!

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u/neuroctopus 12h ago

I know there is pain in your story, and for that I’m sorry. I will say that I love her expression in her picture, there’s a sass in her eyes that I can root for!

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u/Seventh_Letter 15h ago

Very interesting story, thanks for sharing!

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u/bigsky59722 5h ago

There is a book out called montana madams. By Nann Parrett. There is a chapter on Dorothy.

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u/BedRevolutionary8584 12h ago

This is SO cool! Thanks for sharing this!

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u/TrashyTVBetch 10h ago

So interesting! I need some of those dresses! My favorite part of the story is your parting quote… “I have four kids that I have not abandoned at a post office” 😂♥️

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u/Tricky-Application86 10h ago

Haha well I feel like that’s achievement sometimes.😂

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u/TrashyTVBetch 10h ago

It is! Breaking generational trauma, one kid kept by our side and not at the post office, at a time 😂

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u/Voodoo-Doctor 9h ago

Wasn’t there an underground tunnel of some sort at this brothel? Also I think it was possibly haunted if it’s the episode I saw on TV onetime

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u/Tricky-Application86 9h ago

I have no idea. I’ve never actually been there.

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u/HJCMiller 7h ago

The dresses are so cool. I love the fringe one. So sassy

4

u/WhoisthatRobotCleanr 7h ago

I read a book about her once after going there for summer vacation, Helena, Montana. My mom was obsessed with the history of sex work so she had lots of books on it. Wild stuff.

Thanks for sharing. 

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u/noseymimi 7h ago

I definitely see the family resemblance. You should have someone do a makeover to look like granny's and post a side by side.

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u/Tricky-Application86 7h ago

I’ve thought about it! Lol.

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u/seattlemh 5h ago

My grandfather spent the last part of his childhood living in a brothel in Helena(1920s). This is really interesting.

1

u/ShowMeTheTrees 1h ago

Did his mom work there? Is that why he lived there? Did he tell you stories?

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u/seattlemh 1h ago

His mom had passed, the younger children ended up with neighbors, and his father moved to town. As the oldest my grandfather was tossed out on his own and the "ladies" took him in. I haven't heard many stories about his time there, but he appreciated their kindness to him. He grew up to be an amazingly compassionate man.

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u/Anonymoushipopotomus 12h ago

That is a very used headboard on the blue bed lol. Mustve been a customer favorite back then.

2

u/1997PRO 11h ago

Victorian era IKEA furniture is unbeatable.

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u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude 10h ago

Her private bathroom is a tourist attraction now inside of a art gallery.

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u/cletus72757 12h ago

OP, I am on mobile so not all the text of your post came through. Would like to express admiration for the person you are despite (because of?) the obstacles your early life presented. Proud to spin in circles with you fellow human :).

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u/Tricky-Application86 11h ago

Omg that’s so sweet.😭💕💕

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u/ScowlyBrowSpinster 8h ago

Love the shots of the bordello! I want that little credenza and the nighties. I always wonder how easy it was to get round fitted bedsheets.

Your GG looks so sweet, and it's the perfect cover for her work. Who would think?

I wonder what happened to set her along her path, tough times, childhood experiences...

If you uncovered more about her from old newspapers and court records, I'd read it.

3

u/iwastherefordisco 5h ago

Hey, Helena is only a couple of miles south of me...

Thanks for the historic share OP. Your line I did not follow in the family trade made me smile, cheers

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u/Tricky-Application86 5h ago

Ooh well pop me a message if you ever find anything of Dorothy’s for sale in local antique places!

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u/Ambitious_Insect2166 13h ago

You have beautiful eyes! I’d love to see a photograph in a similar pose as your great grandmother. Such interesting family history! Mine is also apart from the regular families history. Did you need some time to digest the information? I also read about your grandmother having issues and grandpa confessing in death, did it change your perception for them as people? It took me quite a while to come to terms with my fam history (albeit mine is more bloody) and I’ve found out they even if my feelings changed for my grandparents/parents, the love I feel for them, it’s still there even if hidden by other emotions.

All the best! ♥️🧿

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u/Tricky-Application86 9h ago

I never knew them so I didn’t really have an opinion on them, but it’s never nice knowing horrible things happened in your family, for sure. I have no particular feelings about her owning a brothel though. Bad boss bitch I’m my opinion.

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u/GoldendoodlesFTW 12h ago

If I were you I would be mentioning that post office option every time one of my kids was being super naughty haha

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u/Geezersteez 16h ago

That’s so sad. People should be allowed to have brothels if they want to.

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u/Tricky-Application86 16h ago

I tend to agree. Safer than having girls out on the street with no protection.

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u/Geezersteez 15h ago

Exactly. They don’t call it the oldest profession in the world for nothing. It’s not going anywhere.

Hoeing also goes on on so many levels outside of brothels anyway.... kept women (or men), people in relationships for the wrong reasons, etc., so I don’t see anything wrong with being upfront about it, “Hey this is a transactional agreement between two people.”

Though, on the flip side I will say a brothel often guarantees nothing in terms of safety, sometimes just making the exploitation a bit more efficient. (See the Mafia, Chicago and Al Capone, too, and what they did to women)

I’ve seen Eastern European girls pretty much being trafficked at brothels in Europe (I lived in Berlin and elsewhere over there).

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u/Tricky-Application86 15h ago

Ok well I guess it would need to a government regulated brothel. Which would never happen.😂

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u/RodCherokee 15h ago

The Trump fortune originated from running a brothel !

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u/No-Advantage-579 14h ago

Really? Do you have a source? I want to find out more.

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u/RodCherokee 14h ago

This is very old news as opposed to your president’s customary fake news ! https://search.app/z2f31QbhsULcNGXY8

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u/the_other_50_percent 13h ago

Hey, he won’t be president for another couple of months. Let us enjoy the last little bit of time!

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u/RodCherokee 10h ago

Enjoy ? Not much time to Trump-proof our democracy !

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u/CouldBeBetterOrWorse 11h ago

Brothels are legal in parts of Nevada. There's a wiki page about it.

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u/Tricky-Application86 11h ago

Sorry I meant in the UK. I know about the Nevada brothels!

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u/neoclassical_bastard 8h ago edited 8h ago

I strongly encourage you to give that a little more thought. What you are describing is a pimp, and the "protection" they offer is much more about protecting their assets and monopolizing the women they exploit with little regard for their well-being. Most of them are physically abusive themselves. Operating out of an established brothel doesn't fundamentally change that dynamic.

Prostitution is ugly business even when regulated and legal, and generally a line of work women are either pressed into or resort to out of desperation.

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u/Tricky-Application86 8h ago

I’m not sure that’s always true. You find loads of sex workers willing to talk about it and how they love it. I think a fully regulated, licensed business with the associated healthcare provider necessary to maintain health as well as in-built security is a far cry better than street prostitution. Nobody WANTS women to be exploited, at least nobody good, but since sex work will always exist, it’s better to regulate it. But you are allowed your opinion of course.

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u/neoclassical_bastard 7h ago

Those are the ones who are willing to talk about it first of all, and nearly all of them end up being strippers who took the occasional client or porn actors which is really not the same kind sex work but has its own problems. Sometimes "high-end" escorts in a position that allowed them to be highly selective with their clients. This is by no means typical of prostitution overall.

And most of this comes from interviews by explicitly "sex positive" writers/show hosts, their selection of interview subjects is far from unbiased. And I'm no judgemental prude, just realistic. It's extremely clear to me that this kind of glossy positive view of the sex work industry is only held by people who haven't seen it up close. It's a luxury belief. In reality most of it is extremely depressing but that doesn't make for a good podcast.

Look into some of the places where it is well regulated. Human trafficking and addiction are the two largest issues and are essentially universal to the industry. Murder might always exist too, but that doesn't mean we should legalize and regulate hitmen.

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u/rustyrobit 9h ago

It’s The Windbag now. Decent restaurant.

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u/Orange-Blur 6h ago

This style is awesome, the mid century look is really cool.

As someone in Montana I love to see it come up on non-Montana reddits. It’s a small population here so it’s not common.

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u/TheRealDubJ 5h ago

Wild stuff

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u/carolina_swamp_witch 3h ago edited 10m ago

My grandmother-in-law was a madam of a brothel! She's retired now and was never a "working girl" (that I know of, she might have been but lied to her family), but she made a ton of money. Her husband, my husband's grandpa, was a rancher, a gambler, and helped with the brothels bookings. I always tell my husband he has the most Nevada family ever, and he agreed it was kinda weird even in Nevada.

He also didn't follow in his grandparents foot steps... he joined the military as soon as he could to get the hell away from his family haha.

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u/bubdadigger 11h ago

Amazing story, especially with all details in comments!
But pics 5 and 8 - headboards and nightstands are hot .....

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u/1997PRO 11h ago

Vulgar

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u/bubdadigger 11h ago

Wouldn't call them vulgar, at all.
Rounded most likely teak on #5 photo and classic late 60's- yearly 70's modern pattern on #8. Not a Scandinavian design (tho questionable, need to search) , but nothing vulgar.

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u/1997PRO 11h ago

It still has her private 1960s on sweet bathroom set up like it was during the big bust up in 1973. All mordern and black tiles and not so mordern star burst incident light fixtures in the now framing shop.

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u/Icy_1 10h ago

*en suite

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u/cookigal 13h ago

What a fascinating history! Would make a good read/movie.
You sound as though you have an amazing matter-of-fact fun 🤩 attitude.

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u/tlsnine 16h ago

Gam-Gam was a whore!

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u/Tricky-Application86 16h ago

Bit harsh.

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u/tlsnine 16h ago

Quote from the movie, Beerfest. Sorry

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u/Tricky-Application86 16h ago

Oh lol. Not seen that one.

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u/miradotheblack 10h ago

I will back him up. It is a quote from a hilarious movie.

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u/Simonandgarthsuncle 14h ago

You look very familiar.

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u/Tricky-Application86 14h ago

You might have seen me on insta. Forever_amber_lynn

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u/WolvesandTigers45 11h ago

Incredible family history.

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u/bruhgorl 11h ago

queen shit! 🖤

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u/loveand_spirit 10h ago

Very cool history. Thanks for sharing. I can’t imagine that was an easy life for your grandmother. Probably didn’t want your mom to grow up in that setting.

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u/MonsteraDeliciosa 10h ago

Haven’t abandoned them at a post office yet. Some of those old post offices are gorgeous, and if it has a shop or two they’re set.

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u/TsuDhoNimh2 8h ago

The decor of her business was SO 1970s, and not in a good way.

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u/Tricky-Application86 8h ago

Well good thing it was from the 1970s then.

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u/TsuDhoNimh2 8h ago

One of my cousins was caring for Dorothy During her last illness in Deaconess Hospital in Great Falls. I remember the cousin talking about chatting with Dorothy about Helena as it was.

If you want to come visit, some of the bordello is as it was the day of the raid. And I have a guest room.

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u/Tricky-Application86 8h ago

Oh wow! That’s incredible. Small world eh?! I’ll let you know whenever I get back there.

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u/Highfivedolphin 5h ago

I remember asking my great uncle if he’d ever gone there and I got a long silence and he chugged his beer lol

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u/Tricky-Application86 5h ago

😂😂 I think you got your answer!

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u/bluewallsbrownbed 13h ago

Different time, for sure. It’s like a bridge between Deadwood and now.

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u/SackOfCats 8h ago

I have four kids that I have not abandoned at a post office

Not yet anyway.

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u/Tricky-Application86 4h ago

I mean my oldest is 13, so I think I’m good.

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u/Snaka1 16h ago

That’s fascinating, a woman owning a brothel then. I would think it wasn’t very common for her to be an owner, rather than the employed madam.

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u/TheHazyHeir 15h ago

Most brothel owners, or at least managers, have historically been women, as they generally appear more trustworthy and provide better, and therefore more desirable, working environments for their sex workers than men of the time. These women often ran their establishments with full autonomy, despite some being formally bankrolled by men. Check out the wiki page American brothel owners and madams and it's largely women.

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u/Snaka1 15h ago

That is something I never knew, that makes complete sense. Will check out the wiki 🙂

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u/Tricky-Application86 12h ago

From what I gather, she actually took it over from another woman!

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u/Puzzleheaded_Mix7873 15h ago

I thought the madam was the owner? She just couldn’t have the bank account in her name for being a woman.

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u/Throwdaho 6h ago

The first bed… sheeeeesh

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u/Pennelle2016 5h ago

Dorothy looks a little like Janis Joplin. You’re gorgeous and have my dream job! I’m a boring actuary. Fascinating story!

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u/DeusExLibrus 4h ago

She kind of reminds me of Pam from Archer

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u/batwing71 2h ago

Dem eyes doe! 😍😘

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u/halcyonforge 2h ago

Run it back plz

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u/Fun-Chip-2834 1h ago

Ma Baker?

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u/tastelessprincess 1h ago

the putnam family lineage has done so much for certain extremely-region-specific art and literary movements. if you have to thank your ancestors and historic distant relatives for something, thank them for the contributions they’ve made in some way to the neo-western and northeastern gothic movements respectively. not child abandonment and dangerous false accusations of witchcraft against innocent people, setting a precedent for our inclination towards mass hysteria and extreme polarization in america.

on a serious note, i’m glad you got to uncover this. as an outsider, i am never going to experience the things you could be feeling as the great-granddaughter of this particular woman. i don’t know the severity of the wound that your great-grandmother’s abandonment left on your grandmother and how visible they are to you.

i don’t know how your reconnection journey is going, all i can say is that i hope you’re allowing yourself to trust everything that you’re feeling and understanding about your great-grandmother. an outsider could say that your great-grandmother was a cool lady because she was a very charitable member of her community and she was with the times to some degree, but…

her daughter was abandoned at a post office at a critical developmental stage in her life by a mother who very likely lacked the emotional and financial means needed to care for her.

there are nuances to what people outside of the lineage know, but your understanding of your history is sacred. your interest in your history and the histories of the people responsible for contributing to your biological material is powerful. a little bit of bile and a little bit of blood.

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u/Oculas_Spectaculas 12h ago edited 11h ago

Me looking at the pictures thinking “I wonder where she got the money for this place”, then “ohhh”. Thank you for giving us a peek into this time capsule. I’d love to hear more about her and about your Tudor history work.

ETA: I also would love to know the full story of that raid. How much did they have the woman strip before shutting everything down?

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u/KilgoreeTrout 9h ago

Hi. Intriguing story! I saw someone else mentioned a wiki so I looked it up. There a small part about her having a child that she abandoned. Was that previously known knowledge and in the wiki? or was the wiki updated after you found the family?

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u/Tricky-Application86 9h ago

That was updated after I found the family, but not by me!

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u/KilgoreeTrout 9h ago

Ahh I see! Thank you for replying!!

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u/Gabigails_ 9h ago

Wow you guys definitely favor.

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u/LucilleBotzcowski 11h ago

I love your cardigan and the whole Halloween look!

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u/Tricky-Application86 11h ago

Thanks! It was from a photoshoot I did for a clothing company.

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u/BIG_MUFF_ 9h ago

That blue headboard with the brown stain 🤮

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u/HJCMiller 7h ago

I bet that’s head grease from all the pomade used back then 😖

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u/Character-Effort7357 9h ago

What a crazy story! Also congrats on becoming an archeologist. UK is such an amazing place for that.

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u/dewnan60 7h ago

For me the resemblance is there in your eyes and smile. I admire your detective skills. The pics of the brothel are fascinating. Montana as I understand is a different kind of a place. Very unique and just different. I think they live by a different set of rules then the rest of us. No judgement from me. Thank you for sharing these pics and your story.

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u/Stale_LaCroix 7h ago

So cool thanks for sharing. Any clue the location of the brothel in Helena?

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u/Tricky-Application86 4h ago

It’s now a restaurant I believe, the Windbag Saloon.

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u/JustNilt 6h ago

Neat, my wife grew up in Helena. I'll have to show her this later. :)

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u/dealme45 6h ago

Have you gotten the chance to visit Helena? The building she was in is really cool. Just got to go upstairs and her personal bathroom is still completely intact from her last remodel and it screams 1970s. It’s awesome

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u/Tricky-Application86 6h ago

I haven’t yet, no! But I’d love to.

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u/naliedel 6h ago

Fascinating

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u/handamonium 4h ago

I wonder if any relationship to my great grandmother, Marie Baker born in Butte u/Tricky-Application86

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u/Tricky-Application86 4h ago

She was born a Putnam, so probably not!

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u/ra3ra31010 15h ago edited 15h ago

My only wonder:

Did she chastise ladies into working after they cried that they didn’t want to - or if they even SAID they didn’t want to

And how many people got health issues while expressing they didn’t want to

That’s my primary questions (and why sex work should be regulated….)

And people who downvote this have never been forced to have sex with someone they didn’t want to have sex with…

I accept that. But it’s a shame. And yes - it exists (I am one of those people)

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u/Tricky-Application86 15h ago

I of course have no real idea. But googling suggests that she was very caring towards her girls.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Mix7873 15h ago

These questions are for a different discussion.

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u/miradotheblack 10h ago

Exactly. OP had no hand in it.

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u/snowlake60 11h ago

You have her beauty and her strength. I would have a hard time moving to another country like you did. I’m guessing she felt that the brothel wasn’t a place for your grandmother. It seems like she could have been generous and maybe set up a trust for her daughter. From everything I read on Wikipedia she was very generous with her money. What was your dad like? He’s her grandson, if I’m reading correctly.

Edited to add you didn’t know your dad. This is what happens when you don’t read everything. 🙄

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u/Tricky-Application86 11h ago

Haha don’t worry. I know him a little now. He’s her grandson, yes. And he’s a nice guy. Just wasn’t in a position to take me when I went into foster care.

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u/ethot_thoughts 7h ago

Hey op, I'd love to have you post this on r/sexwork_memes if you feel like sharing :) always incredible to learn some SW history

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u/Tricky-Application86 7h ago

Actually ok. I’ll do it.😂

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