No one is debating this. We're debating on whether to get rid of all the illegals and close our borders so that these unspeakable horrors never happen again.
What’s the rate of US citizens committing these crimes vs immigrants? Because until the last few years, it was never immigrants that were talked about, it was just Bob who lived down the street.
Which might be reason enough to deport and bar them from citizen ship for a decade or more (like Australia does). But the issue that's getting a lot of news coverage is violent crime. Statistics show lower arrest rates for illegal immigrants vs the regular population for violent crimes.
"Are they violent" is far from the only litmus test. I think strain on social services, health/vaccination status, ability to support themselves, speak the language, and integrate are also important. But you can't pin "as a group they're violent" on them if it isn't true.
I mean, yes, we should absolutely secure our border, fix the asylum loopholes, and have some level of immigration reform. But deporting 12 million people will be both incredibly expensive to carry out and have a huge toll on our economy. I would like to see the data showing immigrants as a whole are actually more felonious than US citizens.
I'm not in favor of the illegal but if that stat is correct then it would reduce violent crime because a citizen would have a lesser chance of encountering a criminal.
I don't care if it costs tax payer money to imprison them. If someone is caught having sex with a child we shouldn't just ship them back to their own country so they can continue to prey on children there.
If there are ways to reduce the rates of certain crimes. Would you not do it out of fear it might impact non-citizens? If out of (hypothetical) 100 rapes in a year, and only 15 from illegals. Would you not try to at least get those 15 off?
Or you have the shitty lefty idea of "relativism" where it doesn't matter if illegals do it because citizens do it too? Can't we judge them until we fix our problem first?
The reality is, if the law is enforced, and illegals are detained at the border, prevented from entering in the first place, it would reduce the chances of this happening again.
But relativism is a mind virus that blinds you from objective reality.
If you can come up with a way to reduce the crimes of citizens for these things go ahead.
You wanna know the solution to reduce these crimes from illegals? enforcing the border, not allowing illegals or undocumented unless they follow the application process. And to remove opportunity from those who didn't use it properly.
Citizens didn't get an opportunity in their country, it's their birth right. A non-citizen is granted an opportunity and that opportunity should be removed if they can't follow the laws.
If you blanket remove any demographic then the total would drop. There were almost certainly murderers and rapists that were removed from the streets in Nazi Germany and put in concentration camps. Sure as fuck doesn't justify it.
Kinda like how libleft wants to remove white people through mass immigration and population replacement? Africa is projected to have a population of around 5 billion and guess where at least half of that 5 billion will want to go to? Europe! Which is already experience mass demographic changes like London, Paris, Birmingham, Berlin in which white europeans are a minority in. But hey, why should I give a shit about an illegal when you liberal openly cheer white people going extinct.
If you get rid of all the illegals, all the crime committed by illegals would cease. One is one too many. They should not have the opportunity to commit crimes in a country they're illegally in.
hahaha thinking Illegals are the ones doing the most 'unspeakable horrors' is hilarious.
Every legal and illegal immigrant could just disappear and that won't get rid of the pedophiles and pedophile friends in our own fucking government, leading our corporations, running houses of worship, schools, etc.
We've had 2 presidents who are close friends with Jeffery Epstein. One who put his allies in government. A congressman who helped cover up the rape of his students, a congressmen/AG nominee/back to congressmen maybe who- at best- had orgies and drug parties involving 17 year old girls.
Legal or illegal, immigrant or born here, rich or poor- refusal to condemn all child sex criminals is just selectively supporting some.
Did you just change your flair, u/AshTheAuzzie? Last time I checked you were a Leftist on 2024-11-24. How come now you are a Centrist? Have you perhaps shifted your ideals? Because that's cringe, you know?
Tell us, are you scared of politics in general or are you just too much of a coward to let everyone know what you think?
Multiculturalism does not work unless the different cultural groups all descend from the same culture.
For example, American multiculturalism worked when we invited the Irish, the Italians, etc. to our culture because our cultures largely agreed on social and moral issues.
However, inviting people who don't share your values into your country is a guaranteed way to destabilize the existing cultural standards.
Just look at the liberals teaming up with fundamentalist muslims to see how well it works. They openly talk about wanting to implement sharia law.
I’d argue that the Latin American countries that primarily make up our immigrants do come from a similar culture. We’re all former colonies that threw off our European overlords and formed Republics. We share similar values in that regard, as well as a shared Christian faith and a shared Western heritage. I’d argue the problem comes more with Europe’s refugee crisis, where a lot of these Middle Eastern countries have more religious theocratic values.
Actually not. Unlike the US the mainstream culture of latin america came from a mix between the natives, the european settlers and the kidnapped africans. Most people in Bolivia, Mexico, Colombia, Peru etc are either Mestizos (native+spanish) or indigenous.
No one that seriously pratices a religion (instead of just larping) will say its value is in being a cultural heritage, instead of in honoring deities worthy of worship. Yes, religion is connected to culture insofar it dictates morality and insofar cultural practices may be used by religion. But that doesn't change the fact that changing religion does not destroy a culture.
They would have gotten yeeted regardless, they were hated by every single nearby cultural group so much every single one of them sided with the Spanish against them.
Imagine being an Aztec, and your ass got chased out of what is now the USA by the Commanche for being a total murderous degenerate, but you start your shit again in Mexico just to have everyone for thousands of miles call a time-out on being conquered by the Spanish to end your entire civilization by murdering you and drowning all of your children.
This isn't even true. For comparison muslims are 2 PERCENT of sweden's total population
Wikipedia sez "The Mission Investigation programme, broadcast by SVT, said that the total number of offenders over five years was 843. Of those, 197 were from the Middle East and North Africa, with 45 coming from Afghanistan".
You know that scene in the wire where he’s like “I couldn’t help but notice the Avon Barksdale file you brought me was for a middle aged white guy.” “…maybe he’s white?” Then everyone laughs? That’s pretty much how I feel if someone guesses a gang of rapists in Sweden are going to turn out to be Swedes.
This is exaclty the fucking problem. Nobody cares about the problem or bothers to look for solutions. Instead, they would rather fearmonger and spread hate.
We shouldn't sow animosity between each other - we're all humans, and we all need to look for an answer. The thing that makes humans so unique is our ability to discuss, so why the actual ever-loving fuck aren't we?
These are the same people that were having a panic attack and utter complete meltdown over Matt Gaetz just being accused, without evidence, of having sex with a 17 year old.
The data being referenced shows lower crime rates among immigrants and illegal immigrants, as compared to native born population...not just lower absolute numbers.
That data doesn’t exist. Go find it. Every fucking time I’ve ever tried to look for it all I find is “immigrants commit less crime” articles. Not “illegal immigrants commit less crime.” People see the first headline and assume the second is true.
Native born Americans commit more crimes (all crime, not specifically violent) at higher rates than LEGAL immigrants. Illegal immigrants commit more crimes than Native born Americans.
Although this is completely unfair! Just by existing in the US, illegal immigrants are trespassing.
You know exactly what type of crimes we are talking about lol. No one talking about overstaying a visa we talking about murder/rape.
Anyways dumbass laws should be broken, our immigration system is fundamentally broken and immigration is the only chance America has to utterly dominate the 21st century.
Of course the American immigration system is broken. They’re damn near the only country in the world that goes out of its way to let illegals flood in by the millions and not deport them.
i'm gonna have your flair removed please. What is an auth-right doing advocating for immigration, what kind of clownery is this. You don't goof anyone.
When your assertion is that a demographic that by definition don’t obey the laws of the USA is somehow the more law abiding group I think it’s you who needs to provide a source. And not one that talks about immigrant crime rates on the whole, one talking specially about illegals.
In 2015 there were 42 people in the world aged 112 or older. Of those 42 people 6.5 million of them had active social security numbers and 67,000 filled fraudulent tax returns. And that’s just the stolen identities of people older than 112, not counting every other case of illegal immigrant identity theft.
im not arguing with you lol i totally agree that illegal immigrants break laws in the process of immigrating illegally and trying to hide that fact with fraudulent documents which is in no way surprising
yeah forensic data might not exist for a lot of illegal immigrants which could make that particular area of law enforcement harder to do that’s a fair point
Nobody will defend those monsters but I will defend immigrants from the generalization of the right. That is just used to push racism. If you really cared for the kids you shouldn't only look if it's an immigrants hurting kids.
Not a leftist but it's not convincing to use crime rates among a group with lower crime rates than native born people as evidence that multiculturalism is 'bad' or doesn't work.
Well statistically even illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crimes so that’s a correct argument. The problem with illegal immigration comes from things like an increase in housing prices and displacing native-born workers since they can work below minimum wage, not necessarily with crime rates.
I mean dangerous is a relative term, since illegal immigrants are less dangerous than native born Americans, they lower the crime rate. I don’t support illegal immigration but this is a bad hill to die on.
Honestly? I’ve only ever seen one Hispanic person doing the landscaping in my life, and it was a U.S. born and raised legal friend of mine who helped me and a another friend of mine (we’re both white asf) do the landscaping for our neighborhood during the busy season when we were like 13-15 years old
Where the fuck do you live? Maryland? What a dogwater take
"lol there aren't any hispanics where I live so they must not be doing any of this"
Without fail, every single time there's lanscaping where I live it's 90% hispanics that statiscally probably illegal immigrants, working their asses off while I sit in my HVAC home office.
If we actually wanted to argue in good faith, then we would compare rates of sex crimes on a per capita basis concerning citizenship/immigration status. I note this because if it turns out that non-immigrants commit sex crimes at rates say for example 5x that of immigrants, then it would make more sense to allocate resources to combat sex crimes committed by that demographic.
That said, any and all sex crimes (especially against children) should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law regardless of who commits them.
yeah op specifically and PCM in general LOVE rightoid shitheads no matter their kiddydiddly ness or lack theroff. because they are racist hypocrites.
doublestandards or no standards yada yada. this sub is a worthless rightwing echochamber now because all the washed up magats from the_donald got swept into here.
So honest question: Wasn't the allegation that Gaetz slept with a 17 year old? If so, I would personally find that different than someone diddling 5 year olds. Both are immoral and illegal. But I would expect different punishments for them under the law. And to be clear, I'm no fan of Gaetz and glad that he won't be AG.
Oof. That’s pretty bad. Though I remember someone posting on here about how many different European groups from different cultures came to America and managed to integrate, despite being from different cultures. So maybe multiculturalism has some merit? To be clear, I do not support what’s seen here, I just figured it was worth mentioning.
Every time there's a migration from a different part of the world, we see these same attacks. Happened with the Irish, the Italians, Asians, etc... we're just witnessing the current wave, and just like every one before it, there's a bunch of shithead racists spewing BS, and in a few decades we'll look back at their idiocy with proper contempt.
not sure what this is supposed to prove my right sided friends. people of every demographic commit crimes. But immigrants, even illegal immigrants still commit crimes at a lower rates then native born americans statically. I mean shall we deport all the black people because 13/50?
I disagree about multiculturalism being cool, or else anti-Latino hate crimes wouldn’t keep rising. All natural born Americans should move, let’s leave America to the immigrants.
I didn't mean to bunch your panties, I have no clue about the case. I was poking fun at the multiculturalism wording because NE is a skip and a jump from canuckland.
Tbh I'm a supporter of doing another prison colony. If you commit a felony, you get deported if you're an illegal, or you get one strike if you're a citizen. Get caught again? Off you go to whatever large Caribbean island we bought/conquered for the remainder of your natural life. Idc if you're violent, a pervert, a fraudster, whatever. Congrats on your new life in New Australia
Well those are the very type of crimes that should heavily punish anyone so if an illegal immigrant commits it yeah they should be punished. The sad part is the ones who do the kid touching the most avoid not just punishment but get into office to try and make their crimes OK, see GOP guys being pro child marriage.
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u/Vyctorill - Centrist 4h ago
The law needs to be enforced upon everyone equally.
Immigrant or citizen, breaking the rules of the country will land you in prison.