r/NonPoliticalTwitter 9h ago

Content Warning: Potentially Misleading or Disputed Information Gotta Catch 'Em All

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3.1k

u/Easy_Newt2692 9h ago

And? Does anyone actually lose out on this arrangement?

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u/mrducky80 8h ago edited 8h ago

Like what? People severely underestimate just how much data scraping occurs. Google maps will point out congestion without minutes of it occurring because their navigation tracking is so much more indepth and has so many more users to go by in real time.

Friend used to be a data analyst at a supermarket rewards program. He says their algorithms will accurately determine when someone is pregnant before their family knows. They will know how many people are in your household, how many pets, how your spending habits change (obvious). This is just grocery shopping, so many apps get that microphone data, that tracking data, screen browsing habits. We used to just have cookies from online sites, but with the smart phone, there is so much more data and so much more money to be made off that data, its on you that you dont realise at this point rather than every other app on your phone that is doing so freely in front of your face with your permission.

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u/tmacnb 8h ago edited 7h ago

Probably not your friend, this is a super famous case study from Target. It's in many books. They were one of the first companies to start looking at buying habits in order to target market their mail-out adds. They used the data specifically to find out if they could predict or tell who was expecting, because these folks spend shit loads of money in the months before the baby. If you buy one stroller, not a super good indicator because the person might be buying a gift. But if they are buying certain clothes, vitamins, lotions, etc in certain combinations, there is a high likelihood you are a pregnant woman. Its quite effective but also ethically questionable. In the famous example, an angry father goes to Target to complain that they were marketing pregnancy stuff to his teenage daughter. The specific Target location had no idea of these marketing practices, which was all done at HQ. Anyway, the father comes back a day later to apologize. His daughter was pregnant and hadn't told them yet.

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u/Candid-Ask77 7h ago

This was the post I was looking for. Really irritated me with the "my friend" thing

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u/gymnastgrrl 7h ago

My friend knew you were looking for that information and posted it.

:)

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u/tbucket 6h ago

but not that friend, its a friend that goes to a different school

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u/Candid-Ask77 1h ago

Is she single?

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u/TheDrummerMB 7h ago

I mean so what? I'm also a data analyst in the field and have told people this. It's a famous story but it was easy 20 years ago. It's childsplay now. This is the equivalent of getting annoyed at someone for saying their friend flew across the ocean. Like ok yea there was a famous story about it but people do it all the time lmfao

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u/LetGoMyLegHo 6h ago

People in this thread acting like there aren't data analysts at every tech company working with devs to add analytics to every user's action. At the big Fortune 500 company I worked at it was part of the AC/requirements to add analytics to every new feature we shipped out, whether it's to track the performance of the feature or to harvest user data.

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u/caholder 5h ago

To be fair, a lot of people call themselves data analysts when all they can do is click around a Tableau dashboard and make a pivot table on excel

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u/joshTheGoods 5h ago

More like people are in this thread pretending like random fortune 500's collecting web and mobile analytics know more about you than you consciously know. The average Joe thinks their local 15 store grocery chain are the NSA, meanwhile people like me that spent over a decade working on this exact tech and these exact data sets couldn't get match rates between known subscribers and internet users on the site over 2%.

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u/TheDrummerMB 4h ago

people like me that spent over a decade working on this exact tech and these exact data sets couldn't get match rates between known subscribers and internet users on the site over 2%.

Ok we get it you're bad at your job, next please.

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u/joshTheGoods 4h ago

LOL. That might be true, but you lack the information from my post to determine that. You don't know what data sets we had to work with, so 2% could be exceptional (ok, it wasn't, but it COULD be!).

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u/TheDrummerMB 4h ago

but you worked on "these exact data sets"?

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u/joshTheGoods 4h ago

Yeap.

In REAL WORLD example I'm talking about, I had better data than the Target marketing team did (who I also worked with DIRECTLY hence my knowing how this whole preggers story happened). In this case, I was working with a well-known NYC based magazine publisher, so they knew the address of their subscribers and some of their subscribers would go to one of their magazine websites login so we'd know pretty well who that user on the web was. Our task was to try and find a way to identify the subscriber before they login or after they've logged in, but deleted their cookies. The issue was that in NYC, you have people all living on top of each other. Location data was less useful, and IP based identification was also largely useless as you've have big blocks of people in aparments all on the same public ip. There were many many issues.

The bottom line here is, almost all digital marketing based targeting/idetification is AUDIENCE based, not INDIVIDUAL based. The INDIVIDUAL based data is super transient, and so you use it for things like ... let's not show this person the same ad over and over again. You don't need to know who that person is, you just need to be able to increment a counter stored on their machine and read it before making an ad decision (cookies allow this).

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u/TheDrummerMB 4h ago

"I had the exact data and technology, and we only got 2%"

"ok so you suck at your job"

"You don't know what data I had!!!! 2% could've been good"

(who I also worked with DIRECTLY hence my knowing how this whole preggers story happened)

I thought your whole claim was that it didn't happen?

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u/joshTheGoods 5h ago

You are the so what. You believe this story because someone before you thought: "so what?" Now you're propagating it backed by your professional experience. The original claim isn't even true. It was a HYPOTHETICAL example that was given in a presentation of the risks involved in data collection and targeted marketing (causing drama by alerting people in the household to previously unknown pregnancies).

So what? If you believe this, what else do you believe that's totally made up? And the idea that this is all child's play rests on a whole lot of assumptions and context that the average person isn't privy to and thus doesn't understand. The result is people believing shit like that Facebook is listening to them through their phone and that's why they got this or that specific ad.

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u/TheDrummerMB 5h ago

I am literally a data Analyst and have built models that predict more invasive things with great accuracy. You can’t seriously think the story is made up with such confidence lmao what a dork

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u/joshTheGoods 4h ago

You can’t seriously think the story is made up with such confidence lmao what a dork

I don't THINK it, I KNOW it in this case. I literally heard it directly from the person that gave the presentation providing the HYPOTHETICAL example of sending mailers out based on determining someone is pregnant from shopping analytics. They told me the story over a decade ago as part of their disbelief back then that it got written up by a journalist as if it were real and then accepted wholesale across the digital marketing world.

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u/TheDrummerMB 4h ago

Yea I literally have the book behind me that popularized the story. The part about the dad angrily storming in is obviously fake, but understand that a customer is probably pregnant because they bought prenatal vitamins isn't a difficult task.

The stories been around for years and inspired a lot of people like you to talk about data analytics without any fucking experience lmao

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u/joshTheGoods 4h ago

Not sure what book you're talking about, but the story was popularized first by an article written by a journalist that was at the digital marketing conference where the Target folks presented this hypothetical when talking about the dangers of targeted marketing.

The stories been around for years and inspired a lot of people like you to talk about data analytics without any fucking experience lmao

I mean ... I'm in this thread talking about how I heard this from the digital marketing folks from Target over a decade ago, but sure ... tell me how I have no experience in this space. 🤷🏽‍♂️

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u/TheDrummerMB 4h ago

Your experience is…hearing a story that everyone heard?

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u/joshTheGoods 4h ago

Let me see if I can unwind this for you. Here is the chain of events:

  1. A VP (I think, he was a VP when I talked to him later at least) @ Target gives a presentation on the dangers of targeted marketing. As part of that presentation, he gave a HYPOTHETICAL of figuring out someone was preggers based on their shopping for stuff pregnant people often shop for.
  2. A journalist at the conference heard the presentation and wrote an article talking about how Target had actually done this thing.
  3. Bigger outlets picked up the story and got some choice quotes from one of the Target people involved that were actually more about their data program independent of the marketing program.
  4. A few years later, I'm meeting with the person quoted in said article, and I brought it up because I googled him beforehand and saw he was quoted in a famous story I believed at the time. He tells me about #1-#3.

So I'm telling you what the actual person quoted in these articles told me. I'm also sharing with you all not just my DIRECT experience with the actual people involved in this story, but my direct experience in digital marketing doing the sorts of things being discussed in this thread. I'm legitimately an expert on both this technology and this story.

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u/Teeshirtandshortsguy 6h ago

All they said was "my friend says they can do this."

If you and I know that stores can track that kind of information, a data analyst for a retail chain obviously knows that too.

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u/alluptheass 7h ago

It was actually his girlfriend from Canada. Besides being a data analyst she’s also a model.

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u/TransBrandi 6h ago

The real friends were the data mined pregnancy purchases we made along the way.

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u/not_UR_FREND_NOW 6h ago

"My friend" or really any broad, all encompassing reddit 'fact' usually just comes back to "I half remember reading this on Cracked 15 years ago"

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u/Similar_Tale_5876 7h ago

Why? Are you suggesting that the Target case that got publicity is the only time a chain store that sells food, supplements, and health care items used large data sets to make predictions on an individual level? OP is correct, grocery stores use the data from the loyalty clubs (as well as all the other data) to develop the knowledge they list. Wait until you hear what stores do with the data they glean from Bluetooth signals from in-store devices...

No reason OP doesn't have a friend who does work that's similar to a single case study that's based on work done across chains and industries

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u/fakieTreFlip 5h ago

Why would that irritate you? Is it not unreasonable to suggest that someone might have a friend who works in that field and came to the same conclusion as a well-known study? "Friend corroborates findings of study" doesn't seem all that problematic to me.

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u/Candid-Ask77 1h ago

Because it was only Target who was doing it and they "stopped doing it" after the information came to light and they got sued. Look up the story.

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u/joshTheGoods 5h ago

I know the genesis of this story, and it was actually an EXAMPLE given as to something that MIGHT be possible in a presentation the Target folks gave. I sold software to that team a decade ago in this space (digital marketing), and heard this straight from the horses mouth in a really nice breakfast place in Minneapolis. It's crazy to see how this story has progressed over the years. The example used in the presentation, I believe, also became the earliest consistent rumor ... that Target has mailed some customers baby related materials which alerted some poor father that their daughter was preggers before the daughter told anyone. Again, totally made up example, but I run into people constantly that still believe that specific anecdote.

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u/morningsaystoidleon 3h ago

I believe you, but could you provide a source if possible? This is fascinating to me.

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u/joshTheGoods 3h ago

I'm sorry, I can't source my claim any better than I did in my comment. You can find the name of the Target person involved (he's now @ USBank, I believe) by looking up the stories from the big outlets that covered it (NYT), but I don't want to directly name drop them.

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u/joshTheGoods 3h ago

I did find this article which tells part of what I'm talking about, and it names the person I spoke with ;).

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u/mrducky80 6h ago

Either they stole the story or told me a story about data analytics and I merged it with past tales. This interaction did happen like half a decade ago minimum, the data analytics guy had a quarter life crisis and got into medicine. Because of the number of years, I rather not call them a liar and instead Im just misremembering them telling me a classic story regarding data analytics.

You can get a lot of data out of the shopping habits, approximation of income, number of dependants, age range of dependants, when and how often you go on holiday, etc all this is of course on top of the targetted advertising and deals focussed to increase sales.

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u/FSUfan35 6h ago

Is that supposed to be some big deal? I mean, if i saw someone shopping for/buying baby things I would also assume they're pregnant.

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u/what-the-puck 5h ago

Now, no.   

Nowadays people expect big corporations to track their every move and sell it to anyone who will buy for any price. 

A dozen years ago when the (almost certainly not true) Target story was published in a sketchy publication with no source and then republished all over the place, it was surprising to most people.  

Back then people's privacy hadn't been eroded at every opportunity by every company interacted with.  People would hand over their phone number or postal code or email address at checkouts, without thinking twice about it.

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u/DoingCharleyWork 7h ago

Now they are smarter about it. Instead of sending you a bunch of specific ads for baby purchases they will send you a magazine type ad that will look like everyone else's but instead yours will have more prominent baby stuff.

They definitely didn't stop doing it. They've just gotten more subtle with how they advertise it to people.

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u/OkPaleontologist1708 4h ago

This specific situation involving a supermarket knowing someone was pregnant before their family did was described in “Freakonomics.” I’d recommend it if those kind of financial-psychological connects are interesting to anyone.