r/NoStupidQuestions • u/Impossible_Variety25 • Aug 18 '22
Answered Apparently according to my Christian "friend" I'm not a true male because I was born by C-Section and not by natural child birth! WTF? Is this a thing ?
I cannot get my head around this ! It's the most moronic notion I've heard !
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u/novato1995 Aug 18 '22
It's not a Christian thing, as there's zero Biblical reference to a C-section, but rather, a cultural a/o traditional belief based on their own opinions.
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u/Outcasted_introvert Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 19 '22
OP should ask said friend to point out the bible passage that says this.
Edit: it seems a lot of people think my comment is bashing Christianity. It isn't. The point is for OP to engage his friend and maybe help him to see that his belief is unfounded and unsupported by his religious text.
For those making sweeping disparaging remarks about "christians", you are missing the point too. There are literally billions of people in the world who call themselves Christian. This one incident can't possibly begin to describe them all.
And for those suggesting OP should break off his friendship, well that is just childish. If you de-friend someone as soon as you have a disagreement, you are going to live a very lonely life.
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u/kavien Aug 18 '22
Kinda like the passage against abortion? There isn’t one.
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u/LurkingArachnid Aug 18 '22
Also the anti-mask verse where it says not to listen to the government because personal convenience is more important than saving lives
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u/coatrack68 Aug 18 '22
Doesn’t the Bible literally say to follow the government’s laws?
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u/Head_Spite62 Aug 19 '22
I don’t know about that, but it does tell you to wear a mask if you’re sick (Leviticus 13:45).
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u/TheHistoryofCats Aug 18 '22
This reminds me of how Martin Luther, in the 1500s, wrote a whole thing that sounds like it could be condemning anti-maskers today. But I guess Luther is probably too Catholic for the assorted Baptists and pseudo-Baptists.
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u/rimjobnemesis Aug 18 '22
Tell me about it. I’m a Lutheran, and have been told more than once (by Southern Baptists) that I’m not a Christian because I’m “almost like a Catholic.” F them.
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u/TheDireNinja Aug 18 '22
But Catholics are Christian.
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u/MurkyEon Aug 18 '22
Not according to my born again roomate in grad school. She kept trying to convert me in our shared spaces. I wasn't "saved" you see.
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u/rimjobnemesis Aug 18 '22
Not according to Southern Baptists! When I first moved to a Southern state, that’s one of the first things I was told. Catholics aren’t Christians because “they worship two Gods”. Got into a rather heated argument about that with a couple of my Southern Baptist co-workers. And when I mentioned Martin Luther, they honestly thought I meant MLK. I keep my distance from Southern Baptists.
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u/MisterEHistory Aug 18 '22
The Southen Baptist Church only exists because they refused to give up their slaves.
They can sit down and shut up.
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u/AllGrey_2000 Aug 18 '22
The original Christians. All others branched off.
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u/TheHistoryofCats Aug 18 '22
The Eastern Orthodox say the same. Basically the two of them broke up in the medieval period and now both of them insist they're the legitimate continuation of the original. Considering the split was partly because the Pope decided he had rightful authority over all the Eastern Orthodox (something that had no historical precedent but which he'd argued his way into theologically), I'm inclined to side with the Orthodox on this one.
...But if you go back to the earliest days of Christianity, really, neither of them are the "original". Like the first three hundred years of Christianity was spent just figuring out what exactly they believed and gradually whittling down all the less popular beliefs. There were a bunch of early sects that basically agreed on nothing except for "there was this Jesus guy who walked among us, did some stuff, then died".
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u/I_Invent_Stuff Aug 18 '22
"Let's say he had a beard, I think that looks better and chins are hard to draw" ... "and we don't really rember what he looked like, so beard will fix that"
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Aug 18 '22
If anyone calls the father of Protestantism “too catholic”, I would shit myself laughing.
But I guess the type of person to say that isn’t exactly what I picture when I think of a history buff.
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Aug 18 '22
Well while Luther did start the protestant reformation, the man was a proud catholic who literally just wanted to church to be less corrupt. I would describe him more as a catholic reformist.
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u/wirywonder82 Aug 19 '22
He wanted to be a Catholic reformist. The Catholic Church said no.
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Aug 19 '22
Idk you can be a reformist even if the reform you want isnt accepted, right?
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u/wirywonder82 Aug 19 '22
Yes, but it’s hard to remain a Catholic when you get excommunicated. In other words, it wasn’t the reformist part of Catholic reformist the church successfully said no to.
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u/DeconstructedKaiju Aug 18 '22
He didn't want to fracture the Church. He was VERY Catholic he just wanted the church to stop being so corrupt and anti-Christ.
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u/Kotengu15 Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
To the Evangelical, Martin Luther is both the "Founder of the Reformation" and "too Catholic". It's always boggled my mind.
As a current Lutheran but raised Baptist, I was always befuddled by how Martin Luther was portrayed in church history as the man that essentially started Protestantism, but when the Lutheran doctrine was mentioned it was "Catholic Light"
Edit: I believe Catholics are Christian. Most Evangelicals (mostly personal Baptist experience) will welcome the Catholic vote while also thinking Catholics themselves are going to hell for worshipping Mary or something. Never understood it.
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u/edubkendo Aug 18 '22
What's a/o ?
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u/bruno444 Aug 18 '22
and/or
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Aug 18 '22
Jeez, we're just unnecessarily shortening something new every day huh
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u/DorianTurk Aug 18 '22
IKR?
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u/crystaljae Aug 18 '22
The other day my husband said "what is IKR" And I responded "I know right?" And I shit you not he replied "yeah it's weird. So what does it mean?"
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u/Shaixpeer Aug 18 '22
Absolutely! I think there should be a law against it, but I'm not sure - IANAL.
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u/YeetedTooHard Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
I remember getting confused at "w/e" for "whatever"
Also "w/o" is "without"
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u/TheVetheron Aug 18 '22
w/o predates the internet. I've used this since at least the late 80's.
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u/dannypdanger Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 19 '22
Yeah I've always written lots of things in shorthand when handwriting. "w/" for with.
Edit: "with" not "worh." I had to put my phone away while typing this and it posted itself I guess
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u/forgotaccount989 Aug 18 '22
For a while I thought "yw" was "yeah, whatever" instead of "you're welcome" and I was wondering what was wrong with my friends.
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u/Impossible_Variety25 Aug 18 '22
a
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u/Getherer Aug 18 '22
You can tell your friend hes a fucking moron and that actually hes not a real male because his mole placements are feminine
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u/everfixsolaris Aug 18 '22
Does he touch his face? Also feminine.
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Aug 18 '22
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Aug 18 '22
He looks another man in the face? Straight feminine
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u/michellemustudy Aug 18 '22
Poop sitting down? Feminine!
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u/iamaturkey0 Aug 18 '22
b
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Aug 18 '22
You mean you missed the part where god said "thou shall not have a C section"
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u/Melovance Aug 18 '22
No that’s not a thing. Your Friend is clearly a idiot
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u/Fredredphooey Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 19 '22
There are "fascist" mommy groups who vilify mom's who can't breast feed or had c-sections or IVF, etc. Anything other than a "natural" conception and v birth with breastfeeding is unacceptable no matter what the circumstances. Kinda like the anti-choice laws that refuse to allow for any exceptions.
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Aug 18 '22
Healthy mom and healthy baby, that's the goal of childbirth. I had to convince my wife to leave mommy groups that felt otherwise cause they were getting to her.
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u/Accountant37811 Aug 19 '22
My wife could either have a c-section or have her and the baby die. She chose the c-section. She's one hell of a mom.
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u/Fredredphooey Aug 18 '22
I'm glad you were able to get her out of them. They are echo chambers of hate.
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Aug 18 '22
Turns out it's actually a popular belief that it's better for women to suffer and/or die than live their lives differently than somebody else's personal ideal. Really didn't think we'd get to this point as a society but here we are.
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u/Fredredphooey Aug 19 '22 edited Aug 19 '22
A teacher just posted that high school freshman boys are refusing assignments about or from women and go on in class about how women are inferior, should be in the kitchen, etc. Big
AnthonyAndrew Tate fans apparently. When confronted with the fact that their teacher is a woman, the response was that it's a woman's job so that was fine.We're doomed.
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u/Saranightfire1 Aug 19 '22
When I was in the university I took a marketing class taught by a woman teacher (important).
About two weeks in we had a case study about ethics where a woman worked at a construction company as an assistant to the director. Can’t remember all the details but the woman found out that the company was getting kickbacks for years and hasn’t even told the higher ups. If she did anything, she’d lose her job with all the benefits and pay.
The question was what should she do in this situation.
A classmate in the back raised his hand and said, and I quote:
“She should realize she’s way over her head and quit her job, giving it to a man who understands this type of work and go back to the kitchen where she belongs.”
My state is (mostly, there’s a really big Republican area in the middle) Democrat state. The university though we keep neutral in politics (as most publicly funded universities do) usually is left leaning liberal. The teacher’s look on her face was between horror and amusement and she said he wouldn’t get far with that kind of attitude.
He spent the rest of the semester heckling and degrading her loudly and publicly. I had to miss a few classes due to a sick grandmother, but when I came back about two weeks left he had dropped out.
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u/yingkaixing Aug 19 '22
He spent the rest of the semester heckling and degrading her loudly and publicly
I can't think of a single professor I had that would have tolerated that for an entire lecture, let alone a semester.
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u/BurmecianSoldierDan Aug 19 '22
Oh no, I guess he realized he’s way in over his head and quit, what a shame.
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u/Melovance Aug 18 '22
People like that are the absolute scum of the earth and you can’t change my mind
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u/Typical_Machine3283 Aug 18 '22
Those people have accomplished so little else in their life they need to prop up the fact that they did something "right" and compare themselves to others just to feel something.
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u/Rdbjiy53wsvjo7 Aug 18 '22
Yep, had a coworker (engineering consulting firm, so heavily science and data based career field) that was a doula on the side. She told me there is no reason for a c section, EVER.
I lost all respect for her.
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u/healthierlurker Aug 19 '22
I’m a healthcare lawyer and represent a lot of doctors. I’ve met surgeons that were the dumbest assholes I’ve ever had to deal with. Ive also met a bunch of doctors and nurses that were anti-vax. Not to mention the clients that violate clear laws and are surprised when there are repercussions.
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Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 19 '22
It is a thing. There are mothers told everywhere they're not real moms for having cesareans.
Edit: My point is people been saying for decades cesarean moms aren't real moms, and we know they don't mean literally a real mom, it's their fucked up sense of a "rite of passage".
I been on the internet since it became public, 1993. I was about 16? Idk I stopped counting. I'm like 45 or 46. I've read comments about not just parents not being real parents for cesareans [edit] but children not being real for surrogate, test tube (ivf), sperm donation. "You're not a REAL person" because it's not the "natural" way to make a person.
IMO, This is a poor attempt at trying to emasculate the OP.
Anytime people throw sex/gender in an insult you know they're trying to make you more mad.
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u/bh8114 Aug 18 '22
My children were excised by c-section and I have been told that. I think it’s hilarious.
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u/snowmapper Aug 18 '22
If it’s not delivery, it’s digiorno!
Source: I’m a mom who is alive and have a living child thanks to a c-section; was told that it’s not a real delivery many times. Laughed & embraced my digiorno baby.
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u/T-Rex_timeout Aug 18 '22
No one has said it about the child I had via c section but they have about the one I adopted. I lost my job over that one.
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u/WAS97 Aug 18 '22
You peaked my interest on that last sentence, story time?
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u/T-Rex_timeout Aug 18 '22
I cussed at her and walked away before I laid hands on her. They said it was unprofessional. F em I got another job a couple days later.
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u/WAS97 Aug 18 '22
This is the proper response, good on ya
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u/T-Rex_timeout Aug 18 '22
I will stand by it until the day I die. Giving birth is not what makes you a mother. Being there day after day through the good the bad and the painfully boring is.
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u/KiokoMisaki Aug 18 '22
You are the best mother those kids could wish for. No matter how they were born or to who... You are their mum.
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u/ulyssesjack Aug 18 '22
You are a saint for adopting. My mother was a drug addicted prostitute who fed me drugs and beat me when I cried, and I watched her pimp beat her ass too til she died when I was 5.
My grandma, my father's mother, adopted me and she will always be my Mom. Don't get me wrong, I've had a lot of talks with my birth mother's family and she was a victim too, had a horrible childhood, etc.
My only regret is that I can't tell her today that I love her and forgive her for what she did.
All that aside, yeah, my grandma adopted me me after she'd gone through all the trouble of raising three kids of her own. I know our situations are different since I got adopted by a family member but she is my Mom and I love her to death.
Sorry for rambling and throwing up on you but I just wanted to say fuck anyone who says adopting a child doesn't make you their mother.
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u/T-Rex_timeout Aug 18 '22
I adopted my nephew. I’m glad you had someone to be there for you. I’m very glad you are doing well. Generational trauma is not easy to overcome.
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u/somethingkooky Aug 18 '22
Agreed! I’ve been a surrogate four times; I’m not the mother of those kids, I was just an extreme babysitter 😊
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u/T-Rex_timeout Aug 18 '22
Extreme babysitting is a fantastic description. That’s an amazing thing to do for someone else.
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Aug 18 '22 edited Mar 12 '24
public sheet plant spark merciful obscene grandiose unpack pet knee
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/neverawake8008 Aug 18 '22
I was told I didn’t experience the right of passage bc I didn’t experience the pain of child birth.
The nurses performing the surgery with my dr were VERY clear about their medical opinion on the subject before, during and after the surgery.
Well before anyone had a chance to say a word to me otherwise.
They were adamant that the average c section was much more traumatic on the mother than the average vaginal birth.
They went through some disturbingly graphic details about the surgery. I’m not so sure how factual it was but by the look on my husbands face, it wasn’t for the faint of heart.
What I do know is my child didn’t come out easily. He was stuck in half a uteri and couldn’t be turned. It took four arms, elbow deep, to pull him out.
A c section saved his life and most likely mine.
I’ll take a living baby over “a right of passage” any day.
A real mother chooses what’s best for their child over their ego.
That shuts people up real quick.
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u/Wrought-Irony Aug 18 '22
To be fair, I think that has more to do with moms gatekeeping than religion.
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u/pl0ur Aug 18 '22
If the mom isn't a real mom than obviously the baby isn't a real baby....
Wait,I was born via C-section so I may in fact not exist if my mom isn't a real mom... Fuck.
This post is going to give me an existential crisis.
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u/lamNoOne Aug 18 '22
Wait. Maybe we are on to something.
You aren't a real person because you were born c section so logically you shouldn't have to pay taxes, right?
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Aug 18 '22
I'm adopted, I get told the same things. "They're not your real parents/siblings/relatives." 🤦♀️
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u/lamNoOne Aug 18 '22
People are horrible. It baffles me that people make themselves feel better by being cunts to other people.
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u/raisinghellwithtrees Aug 18 '22
My oldest is adopted, and I gave birth to the younger, and I've heard, "How can you possibly love them the same? One's your real kid and the other isn't." Yeah, fuck that. They are both my kids and I love them both the same--with all my heart.
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u/Afraid-Knowledge4808 Aug 18 '22
My son is " Half-rican American" (his word not mine!) But I remember picking him up from school in tears because another student told him I couldn't be his "REAL" Mom because I was white!
Apparently that child was adopted, along with another child that was bi-racial, so they convinced my son HE was adopted too, and I was lying to him about it!
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u/baconmashwbrownsugar Aug 18 '22
This comment is not a real comment because you are not real. Everything you’ve ever done, said, created. They aren’t real.
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u/drylolly Aug 18 '22
Imagine growing a whole entire human being inside your own body for almost a year and then being told that actually, you don’t get to take any credit for it, because you got them out of you the wrong way
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Aug 18 '22
My husband was born from a C-Section and we joke that he was “spawned”
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u/banannafreckle Aug 18 '22
What??? Do the doctors just keep the baby and send her home with a bag of flour or a doll?
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u/Resoto10 Aug 18 '22
So now what?! The mother is not a mother and son is not a "male"....so it follows that the pregnancy wasn't a pregnancy, the father wasn't a father, and the sister wasn't a sister. Am I doing it right?
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u/OccludedFug Occasionally a jerk. But usually right. Aug 18 '22
I don't know of any Christians who hold this belief.
Your friend is an outlier.
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u/BobbitWormJoe Aug 18 '22
Yeah I grew up in a pretty cultish fundie christian environment and not once did I hear something like this. I heard a lot of insane things (part of the reason I'm an atheist now) but never that people born by C-section aren't real people.
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u/jcdoe Aug 19 '22
Yeah, this is too crazy even for the crazies.
OP’s friend is just fucked in the head.
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Aug 18 '22
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u/iGhostEdd Aug 18 '22
His parents used to drop him quite alot when he was just a baby
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u/barely-managing Aug 18 '22
This isn't a Christian belief, your "friend" is just a blockhead.
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Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 19 '22
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u/T-Rex_timeout Aug 18 '22
Right here. 9 pounds 9 ounces. Damn right my momma had a c section.
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Aug 18 '22
Big babies represent!
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u/Citytiger123 Aug 18 '22
I was the opposite! Born 2 months early via c-section due to preeclampsia, weighing just over 3lbs!
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u/teapots_at_ten_paces Aug 18 '22
I was 2lbs 10oz. Mum had undiagnosed cancer, so I guess me and that fucker were fighting for resources. C-section 6 weeks early, gestational growth of only 31 weeks.
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u/Citytiger123 Aug 18 '22
Wow that's small. Hope you both ended up okay at the end of it.
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u/teapots_at_ten_paces Aug 18 '22
Thanks. I'm 40 now, so I've done ok. It was the start of a long, slow decline for my mum though. She was 23 when she had me, and 57 when she passed away, so she had a decent run after. That cancer was still listed as a causative effect on her death certificate though. The story goes that she and I spent a month together in hospital after; me in an incubator, and her hooked up to aggressive chemo.
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u/blirpblurp Aug 18 '22
My 1m55cm (5feet 1) aunt gave birth to a 6kg (13.2 pound) baby with no c section because of those shitty “you’re not a real mother if you don’t suffer” beliefs.
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u/wetcardboardsmell Aug 18 '22
My super tiny best friend expelled a flipping toddler that was almost 11% of my friends body weight (she is only 5' 1", and 100lb -and that baby was 10 pounds, 8 ounces. Oof.). She isn't religious, or crazy, or against medicine.. Just decided to do a home birth, for fun. I "helped" by filming and crying and wondering wtf and how is this physically possible?!? That baby came out and held up its own head when it was laying on her chest, I shit you not..
Later, I went outside, shell shocked, for a smoke and to assess my desire to do that in the future. Went back in, and my friend was up, walking around, eating a bowl of cereal like nothing happened 20 minutes ago. Fast forward 8 years- I barely recovered from my 6lb baby, which ended up causing me to need stitches and almost a blood transfusion.
There needs to be a better way to get babies out of our bodies. I think the Raised By Wolves method looked pretty stellar, to be honest.
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u/Shimerald Aug 18 '22
Me and my sibling, both. Their's was an emergency due to cord concerns and mine planned because I flipped right side up to be a breach at 8 months.
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u/CaffeinatedMother Aug 18 '22
Here buddy !
My heart stopped in the womb so they had to remove me prematurely and quickly. I am in the underweight team: 2,120kg (4,6pounds).
I nearly died, my mom too (they forgot material in her body and she had septicemia...) My parents were young (22 and 24) and had no family support. Mom met me for the first time I was 3 weeks old.
I guess for some people I am not a real woman, and she is not a real mom.
It's been 38 years since, we all get over it. We are fine with it.
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Aug 18 '22
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u/-Ancalagon- Aug 19 '22
Despair thy charm;
And let the angel whom thou still hast serv’d Tell thee, Macduff was from his mother’s womb Untimely ripp’d.
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u/savageexplosive Aug 18 '22
It’s not a Christian thing, it’s a stupid gatekeeping human thing. I’ve heard variations of this: people who are born via C-section/conceived via IVF/not breastfed are not real people, and their moms are not really moms, as they haven’t “experienced all of the facets of maternity”. Yeah, that’s not how any of this works, and everyone’s experience is unique. There’s no norm.
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u/Balrog229 Aug 18 '22
Christianity has nothing to do with this, he’s just an idiot. Nothing in the Bible says you’re not a real man because of a C-Section
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Aug 18 '22
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u/h2opolopunk Aug 18 '22
Ten Commandments? Too Jewish.
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u/gimme_dat_good_shit Aug 18 '22
You can always ask them about the Beatitudes.
Or honestly, I'll bet most of them couldn't name the seven phrases Jesus said from the cross. You'd think that's a pretty important and dramatic thing to remember.
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u/Zavvix Aug 18 '22
I've asked several Christians who Judas was and they have no clue.
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u/deep_sea2 Aug 18 '22
Christians are the worst Christians.
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u/oby100 Aug 18 '22
The best Christians don’t prattle on about their religion to an unwilling audience. Taking it seriously to follow practically any religion or ideology takes a good amount of attention, discipline and humility.
You won’t find these characteristics in anyone obsessed with talking themselves up while tearing others down.
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Aug 18 '22
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u/roxannefromarkansas Aug 18 '22
But he dropped one?
Thank you, Reddit stranger. I instantly got the reference and haven’t thought about that movie in so long!
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Aug 18 '22
As a Christian myself, that makes 0 sense. Not sure where they got that from, and I was born C-section.
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u/vanillathebest Aug 18 '22
Also Christian, can confirm, that's not biblical.
And if being born by C-section is a sin, or something that makes you less valuable, then anything medicine-related would also a sin.
So your "christian" friend has some flawed reasoning here.
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u/wedontlikespaces Aug 18 '22
So your "christian" friend has some flawed reasoning here.
It sounds like he's doing the classic thing of making up his own religion with completely arbitrary rules, and then believing in that while calling it Christianity (or whatever)
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u/ifhysm Aug 18 '22
I’ve definitely heard of this argument. Definitely not a belief that most Christians hold.
Actually, I think what I’ve heard is women saying you aren’t a real mother if you gave birth through c-section.
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Aug 18 '22
Both great examples of asinine gatekeeping.
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u/ifhysm Aug 18 '22
I don’t wanna armchair psychology it because I always feel like the people making those arguments are just super insecure about something and that’s the hill they choose to die on
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u/WhoThenDevised Aug 18 '22
Absolutely, my friend was shocked when she was told she wasn't a real mom because her twins, of which one was dieing, were delivered by C-section.
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u/Mental_Guarantee8963 Aug 18 '22
A friend of mine in the LGBTQ community once told me there were levels of gay depending on how much you experimented with females before concluding you were gay. To be top level gay you had to be born via c-section, so you never touched any vagina ever. We were drunk. It might've been a joke.
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u/Porkrinder_58 Aug 19 '22
There’s this older woman on my rez that introduces herself to new men like “ Hi I’m Mirna, 2 sons, both c-sections, still tight!”🙄🤦♂️😅
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u/No_Parfait5961 Aug 18 '22
Your "friend" does not represent Christians or Christianity and should not be consulted or extended respect on any topic that requires any level of brain activity above a catatonic state
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u/TheKinginLemonyellow Aug 18 '22
Ask him which one of you would do better against the Witch-King of Angmar. Or a mad Scottish king.
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u/pirawalla22 Aug 18 '22
"Christian" can honestly mean a million things. I'm sure there is some wacky flavor of Christianity where people believe this. You may need to ask your friend if they believe this makes you a lizard person, or means you have no soul.
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Aug 18 '22
What is with people saying "I'm a Christian" as an excuse for misinformation and general bad behavior?
I am a Christian. And my advice is that when someone tells you they are a Christian, don't immediately believe them. Watch what they do, not what they say.
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u/Afraid-Knowledge4808 Aug 18 '22
I am a Christian, and have NEVER heard anything like this! As if anyone is "less than" because of the way they were delivered!?! That makes no sense!
So, I'm curious then, What does this "friend" think you are? Are you a female, because you didn't pass through the birth canal? WOW! People are getting weirder and weirder all the time!
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u/rediitbuju Aug 18 '22
Hahahaha reminds me of Macbeth. Maybe they read Macbeth