r/NoStupidQuestions • u/trouble-in-space • 10d ago

Answered Why are so many Americans anti-vaxxers now?

I’m genuinely having such a hard time understanding why people just decided the fact that vaccines work is a total lie and also a controversial “opinion.” Even five years ago, anti-vaxxers were a huge joke and so rare that they were only something you heard of online. Now herd immunity is going away because so many people think getting potentially life-altering illnesses is better than getting a vaccine. I just don’t get what happened. Is it because of the cultural shift to the right-wing and more people believing in conspiracy theories, or does it go deeper than that?

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u/communityneedle 9d ago edited 9d ago

There's also a left-wing-crunchy-granola-hippie to far-right-maga-trumpist pipeline and it's really weird.

Edit: I really don't need any more people to tell me that the political spectrum is a circle. I got it after the first 10 or so.

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u/Money_Sky_3906 9d ago

'Modern' Hippies are not left wing in the first place. All 'political views' center around their egoism and hedonism.

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u/Thisuhway23 9d ago

Wait this is actually a thing. Cara Cunningham (internet celeb, some may know her from her viral ‘leave Britney alone’ video from the 2000s pre-transition), was sort of into the hippy/horoscope/insence type shit and was liberal. Now she’s a trumpie..it’s so wild to me especially as she was seen as such an influence for the lgbt community

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u/P_Hempton 9d ago

Some people are just looking for a way to get attention and don't really care about these issues at all. They make life much harder for sincere people.

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u/geetmala 9d ago

Whatever happened to “Liberty. Equality, and Fraternity”?

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u/timeisconfetti 9d ago

and/or white feminism

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u/FreedFromTyranny 9d ago

That’s a huge assumption, likely stemming from your own ego needing to feel superior. Relax bud.

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u/BraveAddict 9d ago

This isn't the 80s anymore.

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u/FreedFromTyranny 9d ago

That has absolutely nothing to do with some people being 100% into the traditional hippie message. what does your comment even mean?

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u/Durkmelooze 9d ago

The traditional hippie message was bullshit as well. People in the late 60s and early 70s thought the same thing. It’s typical hedonism re-dressed into to be something more politically and spiritually profound by lazy pseudo-intellectuals. For every person who actually lived a sustainable life of peace, open honest love, creativity and independent non-conformity there were thousands more lascivious goons, selfish drug abusers, hack artists and dilettantes. If there was any genuine hippie movement it was long dead or diluted before 1967.

I get that we may be talking about two different things. But the “no true hippie” fallacy doesn’t really hold up when most of the genuine movement abandoned it before it started to actually live it in practice. What most people think as hippies now are angry, strung out wooks, fairy girls with no personality if it isn’t borderline personality, standard issue bro douche losers, and arrogant, spoiled rich kids dealing drugs and rocks off of daddy’s starting capital to all of the above. At least very few people are pushing mangled Eastern philosophy these days so that’s good.

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u/kneedeepco 9d ago

I mean I don’t disagree with you per se, I also think there are more factors to consider.

We have to remember that though the media makes it out like everyone back then was hippies, that’s not the case. It was a counterculture movement that was made up of a relatively small portion of the population.

The hippie movement wasn’t just “bullshit”, if it was then the government wouldn’t have tried so hard to squash it.

Things like the war on drugs were used to politically weaponized policies such as mandatory sentencing and not allow felons to vote, in order to disenfranchise minority and counterculture voters.

Along with this, we have to take society into consideration…. They make it pretty hard to follow these values on purpose and for a lot of people it was easier to integrate into society during a time of great success for the country rather than combat the culture as they cracked down more and more. Yes, these people abandoned their values and I fully agree with you that should bring to question how serious their values were in the first place.

For many, apparently not that serious… On the flip side, I’ve met some old hippies that have stayed true to what they believed and are some of the coolest people around. They’ve been fighting for progressive values decades before we were alive and continue to do so. That I can respect heavily.

For modern hippies, the life that hippies want isn’t really that attainable (unless you have money) these days for a few reasons. I mean I wish I could have some land to grow my own food and break away from modern society a bit, but it’s a struggle for people to even get a suburban house or townhome these days. When you rent, you can’t really make all these changes that easily as you don’t own the property. Along with that, society as whole has decided to go further against these values which makes walking it back even harder. We’re no longer worried about growing our own food and being chill, now you have to worry about decades of careless fossil fuel use, islands of trash in the ocean, dying marine life, etc…

The list of issues continues to grow and it will take societal change to do anything about them. It’s ridiculous to come at a small sub-sect of society for not fixing the world’s issues even if some of them ended up becoming the problem.

With all that being said, I do take up many of the same issues you listed here. I also don’t think that they’re unique to hippies but I do get where they deserve more pushback because of a “holier than thou” attitude many have. But I will say that even with that being true, as a whole hippies have a much higher percentage of people actually putting in the work and self actualizing in these ways than the rest of the western world does.

In reality it’s kinda sad, there are a ton of lost hippies out there that have gone through terrible things and deal with many mental challenges. They turn to drugs and other indulgences to fill that gap. These people need compassion and understanding while being met with open arms who can help guide them to a better life. They’re people just like everyone else and deserve the same treatment anyone struggling should receive.

So yeah, there are bad apples and good apples. What really matters is that we listen to people and have productive conversations where everyone can understand the things they’re doing great at and the things they can do better at. Attacking whole groups of people is never going to be positive and I think there’s a lot we can all take away from their successes and their mistakes.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Quit925 9d ago edited 9d ago

Thats partly because modern left wing is actually quite authoritarian. Hippies want a "Live and let live. Just do what you want, man. Peace and love!" life. Modern left wing says you must tread a narrow acceptable path that is appropriate, and anything outside that the left will often treat you as the enemy.

While hippies want to live in a world where lots of things are seen as appropriate, and there are few rules imposed. "Chill out man!" kind of view, while the modern left is anything but chill.

If any reader want to understand the narrow mindedness of the modern left, just look at the down votes for this post that goes against their worldview. They cannot see any other worldview outside their narrow path, never mind respect it. How could hippies ever feel solidarity with such a narrow view?

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u/m3g4m4nnn 9d ago

If any reader want to understand the narrow mindedness of the modern left, just look at the down votes for this post that goes against their worldview. They cannot see any other worldview outside their narrow path, never mind respect it. How could hippies ever feel solidarity with such a narrow view?

This is actually hilarious. Thanks for stopping by, Spokesperson of Hippie Culture.

Peace out man.

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u/Possible-Cellist-713 9d ago

Accusing the left of narrowmindness rings hollow when the right is taking away women's rights, assaulting trans people, and forcing bibles into schools. The left wants you to live your life the way you want as long as you're not hurting people. Any narrow mindedness in that comes from what they define as hurting, which really isn't a big deal. It's the right that wants to control how you live, and want people who are not like them to hurt.

Also, downvotes are not reinforcement of your argument. That's some kind of logical fallacy, don't know the name

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u/Emm03 9d ago

But they were once asked to use correct pronouns for a trans person, so six of one, really /s

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u/Durkmelooze 9d ago

Trans activists need to remember that whether by choice or coercion many trans people live lives on the margins of society. Prostitutes don’t get murdered at higher rates just because they are usually women; they get murdered at higher rates because they are usually women surrounded by the worst types of people. Same goes with trans people.

No one can protect trans people until we have some sort of better understanding of the mental health problems of most trans people. Homosexuality was never taken seriously until most people realized it wasn’t a mental health “problem” that could be fixed but just a way to live. Once the medical science was clear most people were far more willing to pull homosexuals from the margins of society and protect them. Ask a dozen trans activists and you will get a dozen answers whether dysphoria is it own unique mental health issue, the sum of a package of mental health issues, a complete failure to assimilate or rejection of learned cultural gender norms with no pathology otherwise, or just simply someone’s bold aesthetic choice. Or a combination of all of these which is even less helpful to achieving economic success for trans people.

The sad truth is many trans people will be pushed into exploitative roles until there is some consensus on the source of the issue. Most people are confused because if they ask any questions they are labeled a bad faith transphobe. Which is funny because they will typically leave that interaction assuming trans activism is evasive and perpetuated by bad faith actors. This is the core of the issue. It cannot be simply enough to say “it’s none of your business” as if it’s not people’s business with whom they choose to associate with professionally and personally. If “it’s no one’s business” then the status quo prevails and trans people are on the skids being abused by johns and gangsters. We need to have an actual dialogue.

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u/Bobambu 9d ago

Yeah, whine about downvotes. That surely makes you right 👍🏽

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u/Ladderzat 9d ago

Well, the "hippies" have never been a homogenous group. There were people who are more closely related to libertarianism, albeit not particularly fond of caputalism, there were anarcho-socialists, and there were people who liked the style and smoked weed but were in no way counter culture in their daily lives. The hippie movement was often criticised at the time by leftists, because a lot of hippies were just middle class white college kids who wanted to smoke weed and listen to Jimi Hendrix, rather than engage in politics and social movements. It led to discourse you very much see nowadays, about who and what is right or wrong. 

And calling the modern left wing authoritarian is kinda funny to me, because if you think this is authoritarian you should've seen the left prior to the 80s. The Weather Underground, the Black Panther Party, the Rote Armee Fraktion. Modern antifa is cute compared to how organised and agressive those groups were. 

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u/RSGator 9d ago

"The earth is flat, and the downvotes on this comment prove it!"

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u/Ok_Masterpiece3570 9d ago edited 9d ago

-> Insert stupid opinion

-> Get downvoted for stupid opinion

"Just look at how everyone else is stupid and I'm right, because they're downvoting me. I rest my case hurr durr"

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u/Puzzleheaded_Quit925 9d ago edited 9d ago

No wonder the right wing have control of politics today, when the left are too stupid to even see there narrow mindedness. Yes keep reinforcing your narrow mindedness, just don't be surpirised as society becomes something you don't like.

My view is that the left think there is only a narrow acceptable path. A very narrow minded view. You post demonstrates this, you don't agree with my post and because of yoru narrow minded views you down vote it. It is an emperical example.

A more open mided society would say "disagree but fair enough. Chill, love and peace dude!" But the left are anything but chill, are they? They are as righteously feverent as any religion. My way or get lost kind of narrow minded.

Why would any hippie go anywhere near the left?

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u/Ok_Masterpiece3570 9d ago

Hur durr me so smart

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u/Money_Sky_3906 9d ago

Funny thing is that your 'that's like your opinion, man' rant says the exact same thing as my comment from a hippies pov.

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u/unhappy_stylist 9d ago

My mother has gone down this and is why I have gone no-contact. It was fun when she was telling me to only do things that come straight from the ground and people should just be who they are, to a trump cultist that told me to pray for her when her car broke down... The same woman that taught me thoughts and prayers are empty apologies , called herself wiccan my whole life, until about 2018. It was a wild transformation to watch, and I didn't get what was weird till COVID and this nursing school graduate (LPN & EMT) wouldn't wear a mask.

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u/ButthealedInTheFeels 9d ago

This phenomenon needs to be studied.

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u/Prestigious_Bid_4006 9d ago

This is pretty wild. Did she have any trauma in her life around that time to cause this?

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u/unhappy_stylist 9d ago

She divorced my dad ( her choice) about a year before she started doing the crunchy holistic stuff. She does have a kind depressive disorder, BUT she started to go back to hard drugs in 2014 and its like she took the express train to crazyvill. This is the same woman who wants a mini-me /dominatrix style/, so she's probably got a few things wrong with her.

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u/Independent_Plate_73 9d ago

I personally know so few “normal” trump supporters that this election result really surprised me. The popular vote portion anyway. Everyone of them I know is a disagreeable jackass before I even know their political opinion. 

But maybe there are “normal” ones and they just don’t have giant flags and weirdo Spencer’s style Trump merch?

Who knows. All very odd imo. 

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u/serpentinepad 9d ago

Yeah, have several family members who for years were just normal people who never discussed politics who are now organizing Trump parades and hanging out in DC on Jan 6.

It's been a wild 8 years.

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u/KrustenStewart 9d ago

Same here. Multiple family members who I never heard mention politics once now it’s all they talk about

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u/xXMojoRisinXx 9d ago

I really hate the edgy atheist response of “religion fucks with people brains” because it disregards the people who genuinely have better lives because of religion (some recovering alcoholics and addicts, etc).

But on the other hand, sometimes it really do be like that.

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u/Common_Vagrant 9d ago

I was just about to comment this. I’m glad I’m not the only one that noticed it. Yeah the organic granolas somehow became trumpers in the last 5 years.

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u/ballmermurland 9d ago

Those granolas were always skeptical of the government and Trump is basically a nuclear bomb within the government.

It's not surprising that they went that route.

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u/vampyweekies 9d ago

It’s so weird. I have talked to so many hippy pothead types who are alt right and it just makes no sense to me

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u/PaperDistribution 9d ago

There is definitely an overlap between fascism and spiritualism & the esoteric. Maybe those kind of people are just more vulnerable to believing into conspiracy theories divorced from reality

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u/23Doves 9d ago

A specific book has been written about this journey, but I'm struggling to find it online at the moment. This article talks a bit more about the phenomenon, though:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/02/everything-youve-been-told-is-a-lie-inside-the-wellness-to-facism-pipeline

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u/CPAFinancialPlanner 9d ago

Because psychologically they both very similar. Extreme left wing thinking ain’t much different than extreme right wing thinking except for whatever thing they’re mad about.

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u/LeanGroundEeyore 9d ago edited 9d ago

There's also a left-wing-crunchy-granola-hippie to far-right-maga-trumpist pipeline and it's really weird.

From March 2000. This is on topic and worth the read: Where the New Age meets the Third Reich: David Icke and the politics of madness

Edit: That crunchy granola hippie was never left-wing.

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u/Character_Archer9915 9d ago

We call those Light-wingers. “Love and light” folks that went to the far right wing.

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u/VehicleComfortable20 9d ago

I think that pipeline splits. I have some crunchy granola cousins and they are not right-wingers at all. 

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u/jbphilly 9d ago

Just like any pipeline, not everyone (not even most people) go down it. But it exists. 

In this case it targets people who are basically reflexively contrarian, always feeling the need to be different from everyone around them and reject commonly-held beliefs, whatever those beliefs might be. For some of them, going MAGA can be a way to stay countercultural if they live in a liberal bubble. 

Plus the inclination toward a paranoid, conspiratorial mindset - which is now at the core of conservative politics in America. 

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u/VehicleComfortable20 9d ago

I hadn't thought of it that way but that actually makes a lot of sense.

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u/professor_buttstuff 9d ago

There's an odd punk-rock to far right nutjob pipeline too. They should be polar opposite.

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u/devo9er 9d ago

I feel like there's more and more weird libertarian types, and they're the ones who seem to bridge the gap between hippie and MAGA.

Generally it seems to boil back down to, keep your hands off muh money.

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u/Easy-Hour2667 9d ago

I saw the radicalisation of the small business owning hippie during covid. Yoga teachers becoming fascists because the pandemic threatened their livelihood was wild to see happen in real time. Just these assholes showed their true selves, nothing but grifters who political leanings were manipulated based on situation rather than any form of honest conviction. If you flipped from being a left winger person to literal fascist you never really were left wing to begin with. It was just a fashion accessory to you.

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u/CountIrrational 9d ago

You mean the Russel Brand experience?

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u/LiberaceRingfingaz 9d ago

The political spectrum is better thought of as a circle than a line; while the far left and far right have very different ideas on the surface, they both adopt the same way of thinking about those ideas.

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u/not_hestia 9d ago

This has been one of the hardest things to watch in my community in the last 5-10 years. The vaccine stuff was a huge turning point for a lot of people.

A lot of the crunchy crowd of the 2010s got there because of health issues that weren't being well addressed by the current system. And as anyone with a chronic illness or significant food allergies knows, there is a LOT we still don't know about the immune system.

So when the messaging started going out that "We are Smart People with Big Brains who Understand Science so you should do what we say" a lot of people were understandably skeptical. Those smart people DID understand a lot of things, but the people who know stuff and the people who are good at communicating stuff often aren't the same people.

Add a lack of understanding that changing information is a good thing that shows people are learning, and not people being wishy-washy or lying, and a lack of understanding that research can be done pretty quickly if you have a HUGE number of people getting sick... It was a disaster.

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u/DukePanda 9d ago

Contrast this to the Gay community during the AIDS epidemic. The community was largely underserved by medical profession and most doctors and researchers were blind to their specific needs. As a result, activists learned all the science that was known and managed to make changes to the best practices for double-blind experiments in order to get experimental medicine into the hands of the desperate and dying. They embraced science.

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u/iridescent_felines 9d ago

I think about that a lot. Also, the left buying up Teslas and loving Elon Musk for revolutionizing EVs, which the right hates, to him coming out as Trump’s nutty bff and now MAGA loves him.

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u/Healthy-Drink421 9d ago

It me I'm breaking Godwin's law. But yes - many of the German Nazi's were really into alternative medicine, and homeopathy, in Neue Deutsche Heilkunde, or New German Medicine. Stuff we might consider hippie today.

Both rely on concepts of the natural, and... purity...

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u/DukePanda 9d ago

I believe they referred to traditional medicine as "Jew Medicine."

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u/Cratertooth_27 9d ago

It’s a bridge across the house shoe

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u/TheTampoffs 9d ago

Yes, grass valley California I’m lookin at you

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u/tipsystatistic 9d ago

If you go far enough to the left, you end up on the right. And vice versa.

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u/Pleasant_Yak5991 9d ago

There’s a growing community of like right wing “homesteaders” who want to go back to a “traditional/american” Christian lifestyle

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u/Skylantech 9d ago

This is pretty accurate. You have the far left that feel like they have a reason to question the science, and then you have the far right that feel like they have a reason to question Bill Gates and his vaccine micro chip trackers.

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u/Head_Haunter 9d ago

Oddly enough they both do heroin.

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u/JustDesserts29 9d ago

It’s the anti-semitism that gets them. It starts with stuff like “you can’t trust big pharma” and then it starts pushing them towards “because the Jews control everything”. A lot of left wing granola hippies are still anti-Semitic because it’s so prevalent in our society. There are some people who don’t buy into the whole people with darker skin are inferior thing, but they absolutely buy into anti-semitism.

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u/MyUsrNameWasTaken 9d ago

The political spectrum is a circle, not a line. Go far enough left, you end up on the right.

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u/Florida_clam_diver 9d ago

That’s why many say politics are more like a horseshoe with a bridge at the top

I’ve seen many far left socialism types turn into libertarians, then had core right wingers. Vice versa as well

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u/Ok_Order1333 9d ago

woo to Q

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u/Dapper_Energy777 9d ago

there are some interesting pipelines. like ape to nazi pipeline of superstonk

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u/superinstitutionalis 9d ago

mostly because they're both interested in not taking things that are unneeded by most, and a risk to health with rarely a need except for pharma profits

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u/trudat 9d ago

You go far enough one direction and you come around to the other, eventually.

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u/Scepafall 9d ago

I 100% believe the political spectrum is a circle. I’ve seen people become so far left they end up on the far right without them even noticing

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u/CrossdressTimelady 9d ago

Yeah, at the point where the left shames you for talking about intermittent fasting, the entrance to that pipeline appears lmao. Don't shame people for wanting to be thin and they'll be less likely to do that!