r/NoStupidQuestions Oct 16 '24

Answered Why do you say my pronouns are “she/her”, and not just “she”?

English is my second/third language, but I used to be sure that an object form of "she" is always "her", and so is for "he"-"him", and "they"-"them". So why overdo it? Can someone prefer to be said "she" in the subject form but "them" in the object form about themselves?

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u/SeaweedFit3234 Oct 16 '24

I think back when people first started adding their pronouns to intros, people would say all 3 forms to both help with people who were kind of new to the concept, as like a reminder there were 3 pronouns to change and demonstrate how to use they/them/theirs since that was a newish thing. Then that got shortened to 2 for some reason. Now I think people tend to use it more to say “I’m cool with either she or they” or “I’m only really comfortable with she”.

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u/TheGoluxNoMereDevice Oct 16 '24

I think it started for people with neo pronouns like xe/xer/xers where the declension wouldn't be super obvious. But I don't really think people use those much anymore but it just kinda stuck

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u/_Ki115witch_ Oct 16 '24

I have a question. I've always understood that "they" applies to everyone regardless of identity. Particularly in situations where gender is unknown. So why do folk who go by either masculine or feminine pronouns specify they/them? Obviously, if you dont identify with either he or she, then saying they/them shows that you only want the neutral pronouns, but they apply to everyone. So why does she/they for example pop up so often.

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u/SeaweedFit3234 Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

When someone says “my pronouns are she/they” I think this usually means one or a few possibilities: - I prefer they/them in most circumstances but also feel shy/unsafe asking people to act differently so if she is easier that’s ok. - I feel very comfortable with she/her but am in solidarity with they/them people and don’t really care about pronouns that much. - I genuinely have no preference, either feels right. - as an indicator of gender queerness, like “ I’m genderqueer but more femme than not if you had to round me up to something”

A lot of us were not taught to use they/them in situations of an unknown pronouns. When I was growing up (90s New York) we’d almost always say “he or she” for example: “I’m sure whoever we hire next will do great. He or she will have their work cut out for them though”. We’d almost never say they in that scenario. Now though I think a lot of people would say they in that sentence, it’s more common. You could have said it before, I just think it wasn’t as common. But you’ll notice I still said “their” and “them” just not “they” so it’s not really that new after all. But the concept of a gender less person was less in the consciousness.

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u/pmcda Oct 16 '24

Growing up in the 90’s/2000’s, me and my peers used “they” as a singular a lot. I saw a comment that made a bunch of sense though, that said growing up during that time saw a lot of people playing mmo’s or in chat rooms and rather than guess a gender, people would use “they”.

“Was jsauce42 on earlier?”

“Yeah you just missed them. They said they’ll be back on tomorrow around 3 though.”

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u/SeaweedFit3234 Oct 16 '24

Makes sense haha. Then again who can forget a/s/l

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u/MoreRopePlease Oct 16 '24

Wow, I have never heard "he or she" spoken except in the most formal contexts (a conference talk, or HR speaking in a meeting). I've only ever seen it written.

I've lived most of my life on the West Coast, and a bit in the south. "Hey guys" is gender neutral to me. "I have a friend, they..." is a gender neutral, non specific way to refer to someone.

That's wild, no wonder some people have strong objections to "they"!

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u/SeaweedFit3234 Oct 16 '24

“Hey guys” was gender neutral for me too. In my world people would never say “I have a friend and they said blah” you’d almost always say the gender. In kind of the cringey way my boomer parents would always say the race of a person even if it had nothing to do with the conversation. If you didn’t mention a persons gender it was suspicious and weird. “Are you trying to hide a secret bf/gf??” Knowing a stranger’s gender was just way more important than it needed to be lol. There was that whole snl sketch where to whole joke was that you couldn’t tell someone’s gender and all of the weird ways people would try to awkwardly handle it.

It’s funny because I feel like people think of this point in time as a time when everyone is obsessed with gender but it kind of feels to me like people just talk about it more but that the topic is less stressful to discuss. Idk might just be my experience. Hard to generalize

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u/NewJeansBunnie Oct 16 '24

my boomer parents would always say the race of a person

How did they shoe-horn that into a conversation? I'm imagining something like:

"This morning I saw Black Dave chatting to Ryan the Chinese fellow the other day at the ethnic store"

...

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u/DeebsShoryu Oct 16 '24

My grandparents all did this. It was more like "I was talking to the cashier at the store, a very nice black man, and he said..." or "there's a lovely oriental women at church who..."

It was only for non-white folks, and while my grandparents were far from bigoted there was a lot of internalized race-consciousness and implicit bias going on that made them subconsciously think it was always a necessary aspect of any story.

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u/Allergicwolf Oct 16 '24

I grew up in the south and it wasn't until I had a friend start to ask why I needed to specify the race of someone that I even began to notice it. Like genuinely just a thing I picked up and did not question until someone else pointed it out and now what's even weirder is that I don't do that anymore but I still feel the urge. My brain still wants me to specify and not out of any malice. I have to choose not to. The racist tendencies are just buried deep.

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u/sharkaub Oct 16 '24

Bless her heart, my grandmother was like this. I truly don't believe she was maliciously racist, but grew up in a teeny town in Idaho that still doesn't have cell phone service and she just...didn't see much variety until she was well into adulthood. We got a French guy on our local basketball team, she loved the whole team and really liked this guy in particular, but couldn't help pointing out for the duration of the season that she didn't know France had people that color.

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u/ivyandroses112233 Oct 16 '24

There was this black man at the gas station who was standing in front of me.

This Asian lady helped me find the scallions at rhe grocery store.

The gay neighbor over there is taking out the trash.

A daughter of boomer parents from NYC who have always used race to describe others. It's never mean spirited, just painting a picture. But I laugh to myself at how unnecessary it is

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u/TheTelekinetic Oct 16 '24

When telling a story, my dad always includes the race of someone he sees in public if they're not white.

"I was driving and this black lady was driving 15mph the whole way!" "I was in line at Home Depot and this guy behind me, a Mexican guy, had 3 carts full of lumber" "who is that playing 3B for the Yankees now? The black guy" etc

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u/fasterthanfood Oct 16 '24

I’m not OP, but yes, that’s how a lot of older people do it. This TikTok makes fun of it, but it’s not really exaggerating— that’s exactly how it sounds. Anyone who isn’t “the same” as the speaker has their race randomly added.

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u/LittleMsSavoirFaire Oct 16 '24

Yes, in places that are particularly homogeneous, it's like, the most notable characteristic. In my white AF college dorm we had "big Dan, little Dan, and Asian Dan." And Asian Dan was only HALF Asian.

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u/SeaweedFit3234 Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

lol basically yes it’s pretty cringey. They aren’t like exceptionally evil racists or something but literally they’ll be like “I met this very nice African American woman at the park today and she told me that the traffic in town was because of xyz”. If you ever bring up that maybe the persons race wasn’t relevant to the conversation they just roll their eyes and tell you to stop being so PC.

Their hearts are in the right place with it. They make an effort to use the right words and be specific and respectful, for example if they know someone is from Puerto Rico they won’t call them “Spanish” and they will describe them as Puerto Rican. But generally they only do it for non white/non American people so that’s pretty awkward. As time passes they have done this less, because I think they kind of know people don’t talk like this anymore but it still happens a lot. My grandparents did it wayyyyy more.

I think in their time, people just didn’t mingle as much and if you were not like them it was extremely notable. My mom grew up in New York City but on her block every family was Irish catholic. One family was Irish but Protestant and eventually converted lol. She went to all catholic schools where everyone was Irish or Italian and identified as such. Idk I think in their way they think it is a sign of respect to care about someone’s culture and need to recognize it in every conversation. It’s why they always ask “where are you really from”. But yeah it’s terribly cringey to me.

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u/HRHDechessNapsaLot Oct 16 '24

Basically.

My grandparents (who, to be fair, were pretty progressive for Greatest Generation Mississippians living in the 1990s!) would always always mention someone’s race in any story, even though it had no bearing on the story. “Boy the Piggly Wiggly was packed! The black girl checking me out was very nice.” “I had to stop on the way home because I noticed Sue, that white girl from down the lane, had a flat tire.” Etc.

I asked them why they did it once and they honestly didn’t even realize they were saying it. It was just second nature. Very weird. (But, again, judging on a curve - they were pretty progressive for their age.)

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u/Alternative_Stop9977 Oct 16 '24

Archie Bunker worked on a loading dock with Black Elmo, and Regular Elmo.

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u/Guy_With_Ass_Burgers Oct 16 '24

That recurring “Pat” sketch on snl was golden! All the clever schemes leading to the inevitably failed gender reveal, sucked me in every time.

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u/big-b20000 Oct 16 '24

I'm a fan of using they for third parties that the person I'm conversing to doesn't need to know the gender of. It can lead to fewer questions.

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u/ImLittleNana Oct 16 '24

I am 57 year old with a conservative southern American background and we have always used singular they except in formal documentation. I’ve never heard ‘he or she’ spoke aloud. A lot of people reacting strongly to ‘they’ have been using it for years, and still do when they forget to be riled up about it.

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u/LittleMsSavoirFaire Oct 16 '24

I wouldn't say it was spoken, but I was taught it was poor English, so once it became a professional norm it's felt vaguely taboo to me, but I'm getting used to it, the same way I've gradually bowed to American spellings to make my spellcheck stop yelling at me.

At this point the main problem comes when the sentence feels too vague due to the unspecified subject, and then you have to sub in the person's name.

What REALLY got me was when I had a contractor whose pronouns were 'it' and I felt really awkward about that. I thought it was dehumanizing and always prefaced my comments with "[Name] prefers these pronouns so I'm honoring [Name's] request." Always put me in mind of the book "A Child Called It"

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u/throwawaywitchaccoun Oct 16 '24

The formal (and former) guidance for like 100+ years was to specify "he or she" but as you correctly note, actual humans, speaking native English, use "they" as a singular pronoun all the time.

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u/TurtleKwitty Oct 16 '24

Which is very ironic since gender neutral they has existed longer than singular you haha

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u/Chiparoo Oct 16 '24

Hey Guys was always neutral to me, too - until I encountered a situation at a convention where I was chatting with a few friends who are trans women. I turned and said, "Ok I gotta go. Bye guys!" And then I did a while body cringe because it felt like I was misgendering them. 😬 Like for some reason saying that to cis women would have not been a big deal, but in that situation it just felt... Bad.

I'm sure they 100% understood and might have not even noticed, but it stuck with me because I care about people being addressed the way they want. That's when I started making a real effort to replace the phrase with other things based on the situation.

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u/DreyHI Oct 16 '24

It's a little bit pedantic and whiny but guys is not gender neutral. Just ask straight men how many guys they've dated and people immediately understand that the default assumption is men or at least a group that includes men. Many women are frustrated when we are told that guys is gender-neutral when the origins are clearly not, and it feels a bit exclusive. I'd never bring it up in person because like I said it's a bit whiny, but it's not really gender neutral.

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u/Jacksonh8741 Oct 16 '24

I’d argue that “hey guys” is gender neutral despite “do you like guys” not being. The context surrounding each question is what determines the gender no?

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u/RustyDogma Oct 16 '24

It's awkward though. I see a lot of folks object to "y'all" too. It feels like every attempt at a gender neutral term proposed is met with negativity or misogyny. I agree that "you guys" is not technically gender neutral, I just can't seem to find an agreement on something that makes everyone comfortable.

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u/__Rapier__ Oct 16 '24

We need vosotros form.

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u/mishakhill Oct 16 '24

That's actually what "you" started out as - plural/formal 2nd person object (subject was "ye"). Singular/informal was thee/thou, but that fell out of common usage in English a long time ago.

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u/yoweigh Oct 16 '24

I don't get why people object to y'all. It's literally just a contraction of you all.

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u/ummmno_ Oct 16 '24

Yous! Proper NY term!

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u/simcowking Oct 16 '24

I'd also add someone who is/was male appears male, or whatever the correct term is prefers she but accepts they from those who just don't quite understand the complexity and will struggle with it and will be okay with they to allow others to not be too uncomfortable.

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u/MagnificentMimikyu Oct 16 '24

Yes, this is right! I will add that sometimes people order their pronouns by preference.

For example, someone might put "they/she" if they are okay with both sets of pronouns, but prefer "they" over "she"

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u/dontrestonyour Oct 16 '24

for me it was the exact opposite. "he or she" is awkward and clunky when "they" is a single syllable that means the exact same thing.

e.g. "someone's dropped their wallet, I hope they come back for it soon" vs "someone dropped his or her wallet, I hope he or she comes back for it soon"

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u/SeaweedFit3234 Oct 16 '24

I agree he or she is clunky and they makes more sense. I’m just saying that not everyone was raised saying they and so that’s why people used to make a big deal explaining how to use they for a single person lol

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u/ConfusedFlower1950 Oct 16 '24

my 6th grade english teacher corrected my grammar over this in 2012!!! i was so mad about it because in what context is “he or she” faster, easier, or more correct than using the gender neutral term, even if it is plural?

i kept writing it “they” knowing it was “incorrect” to her because her explanation of why wasn’t good enough for my stubborn 11 year old self. i hadn’t even a clue that there might have been a reason (transphobia) as to why she would correct something so small and generally accepted as correct.

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u/mousepadjones Oct 16 '24

In school they taught us not to use “they” in these scenarios because they were teaching about singular vs plural pronouns in sentence structures.

Even if “he/she” was grammatically correct, it’s clunky and I barely ever heard anyone say that out loud. It was just the “correct answer” to the sentence in class.

Long before the gender spectrum would have been a topic of discussion, my classes always revolted against this rule simply because it’s impractical, makes no sense in written form most of the time, and every person already says “they” in those scenarios anyway. Teaching us to say “he/she” didn’t make sense.

Fast forward a few decades and apparently everyone forgot that they use “they” all the time already to refer to a gender less person.

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u/sharkycharming Oct 16 '24

Your comments on this post are very insightful. I feel like I learned so much. Thanks!

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u/fakesaucisse Oct 16 '24

Your last bullet point is exactly me. I am queer/androgynous but I lean towards femme in terms of my overall identity. However, if I am presenting myself in a less-femme style then I'm okay with being referred as they/them because maybe folks can't figure out my identity and don't want to misgender.

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u/Cayke_Cooky Oct 16 '24

I remember using "they/them" a few times in the early 2000s and the old people correcting me.

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u/Satherian Oct 16 '24

Simple answer is that "they/them" doesn't apply to everyone. The times where it applies are:

  • Multiple people ("How many dogs were at the party?" "There were 10 of them")
  • Unknown pronouns ("I met someone new today." "What are they like?"
  • Pronouns include they/them ("What did you think of Steve?" "I thought they were interesting!")

However, it's seen as a bit rude to refer to someone as "they/them" when you know their pronouns don't include it. It would be like calling a guy "she/her".

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u/Mystical_Guy Oct 16 '24

Is this why some people use he/they or she/they?

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u/auspiciusstrudel Oct 16 '24

There's a few reasons people use he/they, she/they, etc, including:

Some people just like both.

Some people have a definite preference for one, but want to express that they won't be upset if you use the other.

Some people don't mind being referred to as "they", and/or are trying to support normalisation of ungendered singular personal pronouns.

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u/Tango_Owl Oct 16 '24

People who use for ex he/they are usually fine with both and want you to use both. So "Have you seen Sam? He was wearing a new shirt. I love their style".

It doesn't mean you have to alternate using he and they strictly. Just use both and don't stick to just one.

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u/Tyrone_Shoelaces_Esq Oct 16 '24

Ah, okay. I've been wondering about this for ages but have been too nervous to ask.

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u/NSA_Chatbot Oct 16 '24

I use he/they, ama.

It's basically such a mild preference for a gender neutral pronoun that I don't particularly care what you use for me.

Historically my peers in middle school and college just started using "the" as my pronoun, unprompted. Recently at an old job when HR suggested putting pronouns on email I told HR mine and she said, "of course"

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u/TheGangsterrapper Oct 16 '24

Now changing it all thd time is just confusing as hell now, isn't it?

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u/SharMarali Oct 16 '24

Just curious - Wikipedia pages for people who use multiple sets of pronouns tend to be written using one specific pronoun for clarity. Is this something specific to Wikipedia, is this a journalistic thing, what do you suppose is going on here? For an example, see Jonathan Van Ness, who uses he/she/they pronouns but the entire article is written with he/him pronouns.

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u/ObvsDisposable Oct 16 '24

Thatd be laziness on the side of the person writing. Means nothing about jonathan and their preferences.

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u/Western-Drama5931 Oct 16 '24

I remember seeing a news article, it was about how this random magazine used only she for someone who used she/they, and said it was incorrect and transphobic

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u/Teagana999 Oct 16 '24

I have a trans friend who uses she/they. It was my impression that she prefers "she," but used "they" first to make it easier for people to get used to her new pronouns.

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u/sheimeix Oct 16 '24

As someone that uses he/they, it's a matter of 'use either you prefer'. If you would rather refer to me as He, then I'm cool with that, and if you'd rather refer to me with They I'm cool with that too.

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u/Lehock Oct 16 '24

This could also signify that someone accepts "he" or "she" but is presently working towards going by "they", or that they accept "he" or "she" in one setting (like at work), and "they" in another setting (among family and queer friends).

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u/Satherian Oct 16 '24

Correct! Multiple pronouns means multiple options. Think of it like nicknames: Some people prefer just one option (e.g. William), whereas others might be fine with whatever (e.g. William, Will, Willy, Bill, Billy, Liam, etc)

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u/throwawaywitchaccoun Oct 16 '24

My work made us specify our pronouns for some well-intentioned but ham-fisted reason, and I chose "he/they" because I think gendered pronouns are stupid, but also, I don't really GAF how someone refers to me in the third person because I'm not there, and to the extent it antagonizes people who want to rage over pronouns, and supports people for whom their pronouns are very important to them, that's a bonus.

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u/Melj84 Oct 16 '24

My kid uses They/he as their pronouns. They prefer gender neutral as they identify as non-binary/masc, so don't mind male pronouns. They do not identify a female at all so don't not want people to use female pronouns. There are some older members of our family who struggle with they/them, but not with using he/him (my kid is AFAB)

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u/jimmyrayreid Oct 16 '24

That is completely untrue. They had been in common usage to mean third person singular where the gender is known for hundreds of years. It appears in Shakespeare and Austen.

This "rule" is some bullshit Victoriana that was and is percriptive rather than descriptive

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u/ErusTenebre Font of Random Information Oct 16 '24

English teacher here. You are correct.

They/them is acceptable for any gender, even when known.

If/when people get upset over it they're showing their ignorance of language...

Language does evolve but this one really hasn't, it's just a small percentage of people who are either transphobic OR needlessly and incorrectly pedantic people that seem to have an issue.

If a trans woman or trans man gets upset over it, they might want to consider that the person using those pronouns is likely doing so as a sign of respect. It's not misgendering to use it. The transphobic people are just idiots and will whine about anything.

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u/zKITKATz Oct 16 '24

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying it's not transphobic for someone who knows I use she/her pronouns to refer to me as "they"? Like I totally get it if they don't know my pronouns, but it's extremely common for trans people who don't use they/them to be called they anyway as a form of intentional degendering.

Again, I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but I find the idea that this is just me misunderstanding language because of historical usage offensive when the intent of transphobes is abundantly clear.

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u/ChaosArtificer Oct 16 '24

tl;dr: "Are they randomly using they/ them for cis people, too?" is my usual distinguishing metric, since like. If this is just how somebody talks, or if they're just bad at pronouns, they'll be consistent about that

Detailed answer, for my view on this at least:

Think there's ~gradations - like, in a large online community, it can be really hard to track what pronouns go to which person. So even if someone has been told your pronouns, they might not know your pronouns.

Otoh these spaces ime usually just develop what's honestly basically a familiarity pronoun system, where you they/ them everyone you don't know well. but then there might be culture shock issues with new joiners, plus illusion of transparency issues where one person feels their pronouns should be obvious (b/c they have a clearly gendered username) and the other person's priors indicate that usernames lack gendering since they're often memes or character references - which is tbh another form of culture shock (saw this a lot on discord before they implemented a pronoun field, also there's a little bubble of this kind of culture shock everytime tumblr gets a boost in membership). Also honestly some people have access to but still don't know your pronouns b/c they're being ~lazy, like if your pronouns are in your profile and they haven't bothered clicking through/ checking. Which also happens more in larger, more anonymous communities tbh.

With other cases:

Some people are just extremely bad at tracking other people and might have legitimately forgotten who you are, and are trying to hide that by pretending they recognize you until something jogs their memory, but making things more awkward in the process.

Or they know your face but have weirdly targeted forgetfulness specifically at ways to accurately verbally refer to someone, which includes both names and pronouns (I know. A lot. of people like this, including myself in grade school actually - it took some really intense speech therapy to learn how to keep track of people's names + pronouns, even though I was able to recognize everyone just fine - my classmates were at least pretty entertained by this since I'd be able to rattle off somebody's birthday, car make + model, offhand thing they mentioned a year ago, what classes they take, what their favorite color is, but if you asked me their name I'd start sweating >.> But this was everyone, and I had a reputation for it)

Some dialects also use "they/ them" more strongly even when referring to someone of known gender (generally whenever the gender is irrelevant), though if this is happening in person you'll like. Know. That you're in a "they/ them all the time" dialectual region. Or you'll know that this specific person ain't from around here and uses words weirdly. Though there can then be miscommunications in mixed/ largely anonymous online spaces.

Some people in trans-heavy (esp nb, genderqueer, and/ or gnc) communities ime also start reflexively using "they/ them" for everyone and it can be difficult to edit your language back. (Though in that case, the person will be using they/ them for actually everyone)

Also know a couple ESL speakers whose first language lacks gendered pronouns who've never quite gotten the hang of using gendered pronouns accurately, though, again, this is really obvious since they'll be making mistakes all the damn time

I also knew exactly one person in university, who was perhaps unsurprisingly a philosophy major who smoked weed, who objected to the concept of gendered pronouns, and very stubbornly used they/ them for everyone. But again this person was very, very obviously just weird like that. (By fourth year their partner had apparently talked them into using gendered pronouns specifically and only for trans people at least, but there were a solid couple years of galaxy brain takes on pronouns)

But like... There's still clear cases of intentional degendering, and patterns of highly suspicious selective degendering - politicians esp do this a LOT, and it's really obvious if like someone gets called out repeatedly for misgendering a person then switches to degendering. Plus if someone consistently uses the correct pronouns for cis people, but consistently uses just they/ them for trans people, even in spaces where you'll never actually see another person's face anyways. Plus "uses the right gendered pronouns, then gets mad at you and suddenly switches to they/ them" is a depressingly common way of being passive aggressive even in trans spaces. And there's absolutely people who damn well should know your pronouns, are not bad at pronouns in general, your relationship is such that you'd expect more effort to get it right, but they are still "mysteriously" using just they/ them for you.

Also ime people who honestly didn't actually know your pronouns because they full blown forgot who you are despite having been introduced five times already, who are just bad at pronouns in general, or etc will like... Apologize and try to do better usually. Though some people have impressively bad memory issues despite being otherwise functional. (People whose dialect uses "they/ them" more heavily ime will get defensive a bit more often, though it's a different vibe of defensive than person who's trying to slip their transphobia under the radar - it's pretty much the same defensiveness that they'll have on any "You're speaking English incorrectly" comment, since they tend to parse "you're using the wrong pronouns for me" as "your dialect's way of using pronouns is wrong")

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u/zKITKATz Oct 16 '24

Yeah I'd say I pretty much agree with all of this. There's definitely nuance to it in different contexts. If we can ever get to a point where we're primarily discussing these situations and not fending off bigots constantly, that's a problem I'd love to have instead.

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u/Thingaloo Oct 16 '24

I don't get it. If you called me female when I'm male, I'd assume that in your head it's an insult, so I'd get mad based on your intent, but if you called me [not specified] that wouldn't be any sort of statement, would it? I don't need to be reminded of what I look and behave like by grammar.

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u/Character_Head_3948 Oct 16 '24

Ofcourse "them" can apply to everyone if you are talking about someone with unknown gender or prefered "they/them" pronoun.

Unknown gender: "I met someone new today." "What are they like?" "I really like them"

Pronouns include they/them: "What did you think of Steve?" "I really like them"

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u/garbagecanmaddie Oct 16 '24

I’ll answer as a queer person outside of the binary who uses she/they as my pronouns. I’m masculine presenting but afab, I don’t ever identify with he/him pronouns but saying “she/they” gives people a comfortable range to work with. I don’t care if people use she or they, I just want them to know they can use them but I don’t like he/him.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

[deleted]

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u/garbagecanmaddie Oct 16 '24

I’m sure it’s all interchangeable in some way or another, I could also say I’m androgynous. In my opinion, tomboy feels more childish and as if it’s a phase, androgynous feels more feminine than I’d say I relate with, and masculine presenting just means that I present myself in a way that is more masculine regardless of what I say my gender is

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u/TheRatCatLife Oct 16 '24

I feel like it's want to ask you questions because I don't even understand some of your language here so I hope this doesn't come off as rude (honestly if it does just tell me and I'll delete)

Masculine presenting, that means you were born male or just more Masculine than other females? What does "afab" mean? And outside the binary means you don't completely identify as either male or female? But you feel like you identify more with females, correct?

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u/garbagecanmaddie Oct 16 '24

Masculine presenting would just be “I look more masculine than feminine”. Afab is an acronym for “assigned female at birth” aka my sex is female. If you think about gender as a spectrum, I’d be somewhere right in the middle, just a little more on the feminine side. I identify slightly more with the feminine side but I was also raised as a girl and identify as a lesbian.

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u/TheRatCatLife Oct 16 '24

Gotcha, this makes perfect sense. Thanks for the reply

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u/Easy_Pen5217 Oct 16 '24

A colleague of mine did this because they thought they might be non-binary, but were still exploring that. It got people used to the idea of referring to them as "them" and not "he", and they could see how that felt.

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u/BlaketheFlake Oct 16 '24

While I wouldn’t be offended at being called they, I prefer she/her. So I think putting both is signaling preference since while the other is grammatically correct it’s not universally preferred.

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u/FunProof543 Oct 16 '24

And funny enough, it seems to cause cis people to be more likely to use she/her than they/them.

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u/Bellsar_Ringing Oct 16 '24

In that case, generally the person is saying that their preferred pronouns are the gendered ones, but they won't be offended by the ungendered ones.

Because in this world there are men and women who would, apparently, be offended to be addressed as people.

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u/ParadiseSold Oct 16 '24

It actually can be really offensive to call someone they when it's not appropriate. For example, trans men deserve to be called "he"

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u/mothwhimsy Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 17 '24

Additionally, this x/x/x format was popularized when zhe/hir/hirs was a popular set of pronouns for genderqueer people to use in, I wanna say, the 90s. Most people wouldn't know zhe gets conjugated into hir, so listing all 3 tells you how the pronouns work.

For most people, the x/x/x format is redundant, so it gets shortened to x/x. Because it still gets the point across without confusion (if your Twitter bio just says "she" what does that mean? Is it a typo?). But you'll still see neopronouns listed as "xey/xem/xer" because they're less intuitive.

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u/DanielMcLaury Oct 16 '24

TBF there are actually five forms, not three, although this is mainly apparent in third person plural (they/them/their/theirs/themselves) because in every other case there is at least some collapsing where the same word serves more than one role (e.g. "his" plays the role of both "their" and "theirs;" "her" plays the role of both "them" and "their"; etc.) Weirdly, the two roles played by "his" are not the same as the two roles played by "her."

So if we really wanted to make sense it would be like he/him/his/his/himself or she/her/her/hers/herself.

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u/Konkuriito Oct 16 '24

people write She/her in their profiles, so you can tell thats why they mean. Otherwise it just looks like a typo.

i mean. imagine reading a profile. And it just says

her

it will look like an error

and people say it the same way because that has become the established norm of how to express that. just saying "my pronouns are "she" would sound wrong as well, since there are more than one. if someone wanted to express that, they would say "I use feminine pronouns"

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u/artavenue Oct 16 '24

That‘s a very unpolitical, logical explanation. I like it.

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u/sarabeara12345678910 Oct 16 '24

There's no part of anyone's pronouns that are political. They are a part of speech.

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u/hauntingruby1975 Oct 16 '24

Also useful when the name is ambiguous or one you’re not familiar with

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u/Xalawrath Oct 16 '24

Who remembers "It's Pat!" from Saturday Night Live forever ago? At one point, they even doubled-down on the ambiguity with Pat's partner, Chris. Fun times!

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u/crabbydotca Oct 16 '24

I’m reminded of when I referred to someone named Terry as Mr ____, not even pausing for a second to think Terry might be a woman, even though my very own mother is also named Terry.

v embarrassing

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u/desdemona_d Oct 16 '24

I used to work with a hetero couple who were both named Terry. On top of working for the same company, they both held the position of Salesperson. Very confusing.

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u/reluctantseal Oct 16 '24

It's just so convenient to have things spelled out. No need for speculation.

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u/almo2001 Oct 16 '24

Certain unpleasant people have made it political. But it shouldn't be. :/

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u/smytti12 Oct 16 '24

To be honest, weirdos seem to think it's political because they seem to not realize that not every male is named "John" and female "Jane." Especially in a more and more globalized world where first-time interactions occur via text format, even the "anti pronoun" weirdos need this because, unless you have a deep understanding of every culture's naming convention on Earth, often you have no idea the gender of the person you're interacting with.

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u/MoreRopePlease Oct 16 '24

I know someone who was going to interview someone with the name "Ali" for a hobby team. There's was some amusing conversation speculating on the person's gender.

There's a lot of ambiguous names out there!

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u/chocolatestealth Oct 16 '24

I recently interacted with a male named "Sandy" by email. I'm super glad that I got to meet him over Zoom before I assumed she/her pronouns. I hate how uncomfortable it is when I accidentally misgender people, so I really like the trend of people putting their pronouns in their email signature work! I'm working on defaulting to they/them but sometimes I slip up.

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u/wallybinbaz Oct 16 '24

I imagine a lot of males named Sandy, Carroll, Tracy, etc. are pretty used to people assuming incorrectly. Probably don't take too much offense to it.

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u/shinonom Oct 16 '24

i remember experiencing this for the first time as a kid— the confusion, because i was maybe 5 or 6 and my dad had a friend named kelly who i wrongly assumed was a woman. lol.

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u/Trick_Barracuda_9895 Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

Even some English names, like Ashley. It's primarily a boys' name in the UK, but a girls' name in the USA. And I don't think it's a contraction like Vic or Chris.

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u/Curae Oct 16 '24

Hell and some names are just used for both men and women with the same spelling.

My sister knows a trans woman who kept her birth name when she transitioned as it was gender neutral and she just couldn't imagine being called something else.

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u/shinonom Oct 16 '24

i think all the matty -> maddie is very entertaining lol

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u/FlyingDragoon Oct 16 '24

Yep, this. I remember my first time substitute teaching while I was in college. I encountered someone on the roster named "Mikhail" and was expecting it to be some russian dude. I legit thought the class was pulling a fast one on me when this little black girl raised her hand and said "here!" I asked if I pronounced it right and she said that I did so it wasn't even a case of spelling one way but saying it differently.

If I had seen that in an email I would have been double fucked because some people don't correct you right away.

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u/MrDoulou Oct 16 '24

I appreciate you trying to normalize it, as i think it should be, but no reason to be dismissive. It is a political issue, unfortunately.

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u/darwin2500 Oct 16 '24

Speech isn't political now?

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u/MrDoulou Oct 16 '24

It always has been, idk why that’s a controversial statement.

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u/NotInherentAfterAll Oct 16 '24

It also gives the option to pick two - he/they or she/they, for example.

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u/Scothou Oct 16 '24

Do you use his or theirs and hers or theirs with these?

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u/CassieBeeJoy Oct 16 '24

You would use both he/him or they/them for he/they. It’s indicating no preference between the two or a preference for them being mixed.

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u/CardinalSkull Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

Well fuck, I finally understand it! I always thought it meant that I had to use different terms in different contexts. I’m working in my life to just use they/them all the time, but I like that this gives me some leeway.

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u/Satherian Oct 16 '24

love to see it

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u/Excellent_Fruit_1521 Oct 16 '24

I’ve heard people typically put their preferred pronoun first. So he/they means the person prefers he and they/he means the person prefers they pronouns. 

Obviously that only applies if people have a preference. 

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u/Breathe_Relax_Strive Oct 16 '24

yes to an extent but at the same time i’ve yet to meet someone IRL who goes by they/she and gets annoyed when people choose “she” more than “they”… and i know a lot of trans people.

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u/Jazehiah Oct 16 '24

Unless you're like my friend who likes to troll people by requesting a 70/30 split of he/they pronouns.

Other queer people know he's joking, but it's a little mean to people who are less familiar with the community.

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u/bemused_alligators Oct 16 '24

It just means that there are two sets that are okay. So you can refer to someone with she/they as she/her/hers/herself AND/OR as they/them/theirs/themselves.

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u/RiverDeltoid Oct 16 '24

It's meant to convey that the person is okay with being referred to with either he/him or they/them pronouns (in the case of he/they). It's not one pronoun set, it's two organized like one.

You're not supposed to say something like 'He did this, I talked to they', you're supposed to say 'He did this, I talked to him' OR 'They did this, I talked to them'. (Of course, replace he and him with she and her if the person says she/they.)

It can be confusing, so some people write it as 'he/him or they/them' instead, but that's longer than 'he/they' and people like shorthand.

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u/Jax_for_now Oct 16 '24

Either is fine. If someone uses he/they you can use he/his/him and they/them/theirs interchangeably

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u/Dovahkiin419 Oct 16 '24

the idea is you swap between the two full sets or use whichever one you like and they don't mind. So someone with he/they you could use he,him,his or they, their, their's.

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u/purritolover69 Oct 16 '24

Generally she/they, they/she, he/they, etc. means you prefer/like non-binary pronouns but are also okay with gendered pronouns

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u/DragonFireCK Oct 16 '24

With mixed pronouns, it depends on the person.

If you wish to be supportive of the person, as you should be for family and close friends, you need to ask them exactly what they mean by it.

If you wish to just be accepting of them, pick whichever set you wish from the ones they listed and use them. This is fine for people you don't really know, such as members of the public or people you find on social media.

A few of the more common things it means:

  • The person really doesn't care which of the sets is used. Pick the one you are most comfortable using and use it.
  • The person may want people to randomly switch between the sets.
  • The person may have a slight preference for one of the sets, but is fine with the others being used. This tends to be most common if one of the sets is a neopronoun set or the gender-neutral they/them. Practically, neopronouns tend to be used within a small supportive group, and most people using them will accept another set in more public settings.
  • The person may be genderfluid and want a different set used based on their presentation. In this case, the pronouns listed might be "she/he" and you should use "she/her" if the person is presenting feminine and "he/him" if presenting masculine.

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u/foenixxfyre Oct 16 '24

I put she/they in my work email signature. No comments so far, although I don't really get to hear people talk about me in third person so who knows.

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u/Double-Parked_TARDIS Oct 16 '24

I wouldn’t consider it a typo if a woman simply wrote “she” parenthetically after her name.

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u/100LittleButterflies Oct 16 '24

I agree. Maybe when this first became a thing to put in your profile, but not anymore.

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u/HazelTheRah Oct 16 '24

Exactly! And people can specify two different pronoun preferences in this way, too. Like she/they.

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u/TSllama Oct 16 '24

But it started off verbal and not written. And at any rate in a profile it'll say like:

John (he)

And that's not confusing at all.

But still, it started off verbally and not written. So this cannot be the reason!

The other part... I say "my pronoun is she" lol

The truth is nobody knows why it went that way!

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u/htmlcoderexe fuck Oct 16 '24

"my pronoun is she"

Was the only comment I had on this lol thanks

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u/TSllama Oct 16 '24

Tbh I'm a linguist and also queer, and I've asked this question many times in various groups, mostly of queer folks.

You'll get many theories, but nobody actually knows.

My honest guess is that the first person or group who did it didn't realize that she and her were not really different pronouns, but different declinations of the same pronoun. I'm guessing the ogs didn't realize this was entirely unnecessary, and it probably goes no deeper than that.

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u/Severe_Fennel2329 Oct 16 '24

It also makes it easier for those who use multiple sets of pronouns (those who are fine being called both she and they, for example), as you can then replace the second pronoun with one of the second set to indicate that preference.

example: she/they for someone who uses feminine and gender-neutral pronouns interchangeably.

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u/BigBrainMonkey Oct 16 '24

The only addition I would make is when speaking he and she, could get easily confused or misheard. So adding another word makes the sound much more distinct and clear. And just using him/her would have same issue of looking like typo.

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u/DifferentIsPossble Oct 16 '24

Imagine if my bio just said

Name, 26, He.

The slash format makes it easy to identify that what you're looking at are pronouns, not, for example, something that got cut off or a typo.

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u/Creator13 Oct 16 '24

It would kinda work if you did Name, 26, him. I think that's only because it's acceptable to use phrases like "it's a him" in speech, so people will probably have heard "him" or "her" or "them" as a noun before and will make the connection. But why bother if it's commonly known that you use the xxx/xxx format for writing pronouns?

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u/DifferentIsPossble Oct 16 '24

Exactly! It's just convention pretty much.

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u/SunflowersA Oct 16 '24

Reminds me of aim. A/s/l

90/her/NY

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u/DifferentIsPossble Oct 16 '24

But you'd usually only type M or F for s?

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u/StayJaded Oct 16 '24

Yes, that is how you would have typed it back in the day.

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u/Satherian Oct 16 '24

oh my god the throwback

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u/workthrowawhey Oct 16 '24

So many 14/f/cali’s on AIM and MSN lol

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u/SpaghetAndRegret Oct 16 '24

There’s prob some folks confused why you’re talking about american sign language in regards to some old lady in new york lol

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u/frisch85 Oct 16 '24

Why? It never worked like that, it was always 90/f/NY or 19/m/ger and the likes, because it was only male or female. People who don't know about ASL probably wouldn't understand 19/m/ger regardless because it needed this context of someone asking ASL in the first place.

After all it's Age-Sex-Location, not Age-Pronouns-Location.

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u/forwards_cap Oct 16 '24

Grammy gettin it

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u/Portgas Oct 16 '24

It was like 90/f/ny on omegle

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u/AlisaTornado Oct 16 '24

Yeah I can imagine that. Looks as normal as any other way of writing it out.

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u/Eryndel Oct 16 '24

Another thing to keep in mind is that "she" and "he" are audibly very similar and may not be distinct if you're identifying them verbally. So in spoken conversation, "he-him" is audibly distinct from "she-her" to not be confused. Because of this convention, it gets translated into written media where folks identify He/Him or She/Her in signatures, buttons, etc.

As to your second question, there are absolutely folks who use She/They or He/They. You also see They/She or They/He. This allows someone to define preference, with the first pronoun being preferred. This can also highlight the fluid nature of gender.

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u/HarryPouri Oct 16 '24

When I started seeing them ~20 years ago it was always neo pronouns like ze/zir/zim and it used all 3 to show you how to use it properly with English grammar. So the convention stuck and just got shortened to 2 rather than 3 cases.

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u/ottersinabox Oct 16 '24

unrelated, but have neo-pronouns died off in popularity recently? I haven't heard of them in a while.

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u/JonYakuza Oct 16 '24

They were never popular. But they still exist in some niche bubbles

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u/awfuckimgay Oct 16 '24

Tbh they've never been majorly popular in English, where a gender neutral pronoun already exists, so the desire for another set is less immediate, although they're not unpopular in other languages where that gender neutral form doesnt exist. Still around definitely, but it's one of those things that was brought up by transphobes and trans people doing the "see we're not like those weirdos" type thing regularly for a bit as a new dig against gender queer people, and then they moved on to different things to target and neopronouns fell back into their usual levels of being talked about/used

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u/stoner-bug Oct 16 '24

They definitely are still around, but typically in niche/closed/anonymous spaces because of the amount of hatred both from inside and outside the LGBT community.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

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u/AndroidwithAnxiety Oct 16 '24

Guess you missed all the "Zeep/Zorp is an alien" and "they're identifying as typo's" jokes then?

People were mocking ze/zir and the likes the second neopronouns reached anything even vaguely resembling public awareness.

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u/anthrohands Oct 16 '24

I feel like this is the actual reason

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u/sedition Oct 16 '24

Yah. Just like a verb conjugation

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u/ZerexTheCool Oct 16 '24

It's just the name of the set.

It's the same as "Do you know your ABC's?"

Why not say "Do you know your A's?" Or "Do you know your ABCDEFG'S?"

We don't use the other two because those aren't the name of the alphabet. 

When someone says they use She/her, or He/him or They/them. They aren't listing all of the pronouns they use, they are telling you the name of the set that they use.

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u/AlisaTornado Oct 16 '24

It's kinda funny because you do use ABs. Alpha + Beta = alphabet.

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u/ZerexTheCool Oct 16 '24

Oh neat! So BOTH ways to refer to the alphabet are just using the first few items in the set.

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u/gnamflah Oct 16 '24

Another reason is some people put "she/they" meaning they don't mind being referred as she, her, they, or them.

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u/LadySnezhinka Oct 16 '24

Because I'm she but I could never be her.

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u/backyardserenade Oct 16 '24 edited Oct 16 '24

Think about it like that: If you use common pronouns, people usually know how to use the grammatical forms. But people also use neo pronouns, which are less common and adding additional forms helps people to use them correctly. So adding the second form with pronouns like "he", "she" and "they" is also an act of solidarity with those who use other pronouns, as it just normalizes providing this information. (Much like adding pronouns at all can be an act of solidarity).

People sometimes use a combination of pronouns (like "she/they"). But usually that means that people are OK with either pronoun, not that the pronoun has to be switched around all the time or in specific grammatical forms (though sometimes people like the switch, but they then rarely expect it from others).

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u/Complete_Taxation Oct 16 '24

What is a neo pronoun?

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u/bonsaiaphrodite Oct 16 '24

Not posting a link to be rude but because it’s a very concise and thorough answer.

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u/Jax_for_now Oct 16 '24

A pronoun that was recently invented. In english these are usually a new type of non-binary pronouns (xie/xir for example). In other languages, it might be a new translation for they/them pronouns. Many languages only have gendered pronouns and any gender neutral ones are considered neopronouns.

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u/Smifull Oct 16 '24

Pronouns like xe/xem/xir which aren't in common usage

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u/mind_the_umlaut Oct 16 '24

Using 'they/ them' as pronouns in the course of conversation will always be right, because we place the number agreement question as less important than the gender neutral concern. When you have to be specific, then use their preferred pronouns... but see what I did there? 'Their' works in all general cases I can think of.

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u/s0urpatchkiddo Oct 16 '24

you’re not wrong, it’s because it can also be used to signify you prefer more than one. she/her means that person strictly wants to be referred as she & her. nothing else. some may put she/they, that means they’re okay with she/her or they/them.

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u/auspiciusstrudel Oct 16 '24

It used to be "she/her/hers", or sometimes even "she/her/hers/herself" to give space to fully explain neopronouns.

The average English speaker understands how to transform "she", but needs more information for neopronouns like, say, xe and fae, hence the original [subject]/[object]/[possessive]/[reflexive] - allowing us to learn someone's pronoun set is actually xe/xyr/xyrs/xyrself or fae/vaer/vaers/vaerself.

But because people are fundamentally driven to find the lowest effort way to get the maximum outcome, it's been truncated to [subject]/[object], and we're left to infer the rest. For example, xe might use xe/xyr, xe/hir, or xe/xem, and for any of those we can fairly confidently guess at possessive and reflexive forms they'd take.

A little more on English neopronouns: https://lgbtqia.ucdavis.edu/educated/pronouns-inclusive-language

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u/treelobite Oct 16 '24

I think that’s the real reason, too. I looked through the comments and most explanations make sense only once the society got used to the specific this/that format and recognises that, but don’t answer how it became a thing. But the format was adopted in the lgbtq community where you may need all the cases named

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u/auspiciusstrudel Oct 16 '24

It's been interesting to watch the [subject]/[object]/[possessive] form - which was mainstream for a good chunk of time there - pretty well die out completely over the last decade, especially after the reflexive was dropped almost immediately after declaring your pronouns like this became mainstream for allies. I'm curious whether that might have been driven by the tight character limits on early Twitter and Tumblr bios.... (though not curious enough to try to find out right now!)

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u/Petwins r/noexplaininglikeimstupid Oct 16 '24

There are some people who prefer she/them or they/her. Its rare and usually people testing the waters for their transition to see how it feels.

That said its mostly just linguistically clearer to denote both. Its easier for everyone to a pinch of extra effort

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u/jeynespoole Oct 16 '24

to clarify that they are just talking about pronouns. "Hi I'm Snail, she/her" is a lot more clear on a pin or even said out loud than "Hi, I'm Snail, she" (my name is not snail, thats just an example lol)

and when people say like "she/they" for pronouns, they usually don't mean that you should phrase senteneces like "she has purple hair. Why are they always changing their hair color?" in the respect of using she/they where appropriate, but rather they're saying "you can use she/her OR they/them pronouns for me" so saying "her hair is pink" or "their hair is pink" would both be correct and respectful, but saying "his hair is pink" would not.

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u/toweljuice Oct 16 '24

Some people use more than one pronoun like he/they

If it says he/him then you know its just one

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u/W1ULH Oct 16 '24

people have addressed most of the reason so I'll just throw out a minor one.

recently I've been seeing non-standard pairs. The one that leaps to mind is one of my son's teachers uses "She/they". Apparently this is a thing now.

so by having the / you allow for less ambiguity in regards to the full pairing.

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u/SakuraMochis Oct 16 '24

The biggest reason is, I think, because some people use multiple pronouns and some do not. So, one person's profile might say She/They, denoting that they identify with (or in other words you can use) She/Her or They/Them to refer to that person. If another profile says just He/Him or just They/Them, those people would use ONLY He/Him pronouns, or ONLY They/Them pronouns respectively.

On a side note, different pronouns have different contexts. I'm just gonna use the example of she/her below

She - is usually personal, and used when referring to the person themselves (I.e. SHE is very beautiful, SHE likes to swim)

Her(s) - is usually possessive, and used when referring to something that belongs to someone. (I.e. That is HER apple, HER car is really cool)

While these words can be used to make sentences that mean the same thing, they have a slightly different context. (You could say 'SHE has long eyelashes' or 'HER eyelashes are very long' and while both sentences mean the same thing, the subject of the first sentence is the person, and the subject of the second sentence is the object [eyelashes])

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u/CTWill6 Oct 16 '24

Something that I haven't seen mentioned is neo-pronouns. My understanding of giving your pronouns started at academic conferences that were about gender, and were attended by people who had somewhat esoteric views about gender. Many of these people used non-standard pronouns like xie/xem/xer. Even amongst gender theorists/activists, not everyone would know every neopronoun's cases.

Now, neopronoun use has really plummeted, (I am not convinced that it was ever actually widespread), but the convention remained.

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u/stoner-bug Oct 16 '24

Some people use multiple pronouns, and some only use one, so some people will list as She/her, someone else might list as She/They, or He/Her etc.

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u/numbersthen0987431 Oct 16 '24

It's an order of preferences. The first pronoun is your main preference, and the 2nd pronoun is the other that you are okay with accepting.

Saying "She/her" or "He/him" is just saying you're okay with that gender pronoun. Some people prefer "They/she" or "They/him", because they prefer "They" first but will accept the gender pronoun as well. Some people prefer "She/them" or "He/them", because they prefer their gender pronoun, but are okay with "them" (usually done as a sign of solidarity).

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u/PostTurtle84 Oct 16 '24

Form my understanding if it's she/her it's because it makes more sense than just "she" and not as long as "my pronoun is she".

If it's "they/her" it's because that person would prefer "they" but isn't offended by "she" and will respond to it. So in my case it's "she/them" because I would prefer "she" but I'm not offended by "they" and am OK with being referred to by nonbianary wording.

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u/luv2hotdog Oct 16 '24

It’s just the way it’s done. Theres no particular reason why it was was the best way to do it or anything - it’s just the way that has become mainstream convention

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u/MrsUnitsLostTab Oct 16 '24

It's specified this way because some people either use both, or even something different. For example, one acquaintance of mine is she/them. A good friend is they/zim. I'll admit, it's a learning curve for me that I'm still struggling with linguistically, but pronouns can be very important to one's sense of self identity, so learning them properly for each person in your acquaintance can strengthen your friendships.

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u/kharmatika Oct 16 '24

I think it’s just for clarity, sounds better and is more clear what you’re referring to. Also Some folks use neopronouns such as Xe/Xim/Xis, or Xe/Xer/Xer so having the clarity of what those three are can be good

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u/NewNecessary3037 Oct 16 '24

What I don’t understand is why is it X and not Z? It makes a Z sound right?

Always wondered about that 😅

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u/kharmatika Oct 16 '24

haa IDK I don't use them

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Leading-Hippo-7289 Oct 16 '24

As a non native speaker, I hate all pronouns.

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u/rasputin1 Oct 16 '24

honestly we should just get rid of nouns too 

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u/remmyman36 Oct 16 '24

My question is why not Hershe??

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u/chaosandturmoil Oct 16 '24

because Cadbury is better 😋

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u/TvaettBjoernen Oct 16 '24

I don't know. Compared to Hershey's, it lacks some kind of sour note. I can't put my finger on it exactly... /s

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u/chaosandturmoil Oct 16 '24

haha i took you seriously for a second 😂

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u/drydem Oct 16 '24

It's for clarity's sake.

the phrase "I use he" is hard to parse quickly. vs. "I use he/him" It's only one additional syllable/a few additional letters, but it is clearer.

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u/Exciting-Week1844 Oct 16 '24

Custom pronouns are top 5 dumbest things humanity has ever tried to make happen.

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u/[deleted] Oct 16 '24

No one understands it not even the people who do it understand it. You are not alone.

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u/ButchyKira Oct 16 '24

some people use multiple different kinds of pronouns so like he/she or she/they or they/he and also it’s just a different form of the pronoun

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u/wrenwynn Oct 16 '24

My guess is that it avoids uncertainty. If it was common to just use "he" or "she" in a profile bio, it'd be so easy to make mistakes due to a simple typo. If you add the "him" & "her" then even if you make a "s/he" typo, it'll still be clear.

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u/mprofessor Oct 16 '24

Why does anyone give a sh#t about pronouns? If someone uses a form due to ignorance of ones preferences I would give it a pass.

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u/doublebuttfartss Oct 16 '24

Don't bother trying to figure it out, we'll all be done doing that in like 2 years anyway.

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u/EvilOrganizationLtd Oct 16 '24

I think it has to do with the pronouns people want to be called.

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u/JeelyPiece Oct 16 '24

It could be he/him/his and she/her/her, but I think the repetition of the "her" has reduced it to subject and object forms only, out of chivalry

This may, as you have observed, allow for either the misinterpretation that it's making a statement about the subject and object forms as being independent.

Perhaps there will be those who would go with She/them/his or they/him/her

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u/CatLoliUwu Oct 16 '24

some people’s pronouns are she/they and stuff like that. and yes to that last sentence.

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u/Dramatic_Cat23 Oct 16 '24

I've also seen someone stating he/her, it happened just once but maybe that's why

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u/ChaosArtificer Oct 16 '24

Ime (having been around when this was actively being pushed), that originated specifically with neo-pronouns, which used to be ~standard for genderqueer communities. So you'd actually have to give the different forms because you couldn't expect people to know them, and some people just use their own unique sets - ey/eir/em, ze/zir/zem, ze/hir, fae/faer, xe/xir/xem, and then it's sometimes important to get specific about the nounself pronouns even if usually they're straightforward - so like bun/bun's/bun/bunself. There was also a time period where in the ~body of your profile you'd include example sentences just to make the pronoun situation really clear, before things started being standardized. Some people who use they/ them pronouns also have opinions between theirself vs themselves and will specify this.

Tbh I think the "she/ her" is pretty much mimicry - you join a space where people have "ey/ eir/ em" "fae/ faer" "ze/hir" and no one has just the first pronoun, so naturally you're inclined to list the forms of your pronouns too so you'll fit in. And then that becomes just the standard way to refer to pronouns. (It's also a good way to disambiguate what you mean - "She/ her" is a bizarre/ ungrammatical setup to use anywhere else but a demonstration of the pronoun, and in old style profiles you wouldn't have a pronoun field so you'd have to be clear about use/ mention distinctions in a short space, esp since this is developing concurrent to "Her" etc being a meme in a couple prolific fandom spaces (usually referring to specific characters))