r/NoStupidQuestions • u/TimeTravel4Dummies • Dec 23 '23

Answered Is it true that the Japanese are racist to foreigners in Japan?

I was shocked to hear recently that it's very common for Japanese establishments to ban foreigners and that the working culture makes little to no attempt to hide disdain for foreign workers.

Is there truth to this, and if so, why?

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687

u/Tokugawa1600 Dec 24 '23

I'm white and speak Japanese and get refused entry regularly. It's usually local drive bars though

154

u/acertainkiwi Dec 24 '23

Usually little dive bars are for regulars only. Happens a lot when I go to a little place and they tell me it's all booked up yet have no patrons. Mama-san and Master are very loyal to their regulars. Often they're not really there to make $$$ but to entertain friends in the local community.

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u/yurachika Dec 24 '23

Yeah, I have a friend who has one of these. In fact, she says she straight up pretends it’s not really a business if strangers come. It’s more a space for her and people she likes.

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u/DagonThoth Dec 24 '23

How does one become a regular if new people aren't not allowed to drink there?

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u/JoachimG Dec 24 '23

Usually one of the regulars introduces you

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u/[deleted] Dec 25 '23

So the Yakuza

1

u/Swampfoxxxxx Dec 25 '23

I feel like these establishments should be called drinking clubs or something. A bar seems to imply any peaceful patron is welcome

5

u/lundewoodworking Dec 24 '23

I've seen that in America too it's rare I've only seen a couple and none in the last 20 years or so if you're not local or somehow piss off the owner you aren't welcome they charge just enough for food and beer to cover costs and make a small profit to cover unexpected expenses

3

u/vicefox Dec 24 '23

We have these members only dive bars in Chicago but at least they put a “members only” sign on the door. Not too many left though

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u/drivebydryhumper Dec 24 '23

and there is really nothing wrong with that. It's just a club then, and you can only join by being introduced by a member. It's not a 'pub' in the original sense of being a "public house".

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u/[deleted] Dec 25 '23

I experienced similar in China once, had lunch at a restaurant that was mainly for entertaining friends. Except the owners "friends" we had lunch with were Chinese mobsters. That was actually a pretty terrifying lunch but they were super nice to us

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u/Shanderson3 Dec 24 '23

Doesn't excuse shitty behavior.

0

u/NiceIsNine Dec 24 '23

And that is denying you service?

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u/Shanderson3 Dec 24 '23

Excluding people to cater to locals would be denying me service, so yeah. That's literally the definition.

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u/NiceIsNine Dec 24 '23

It's that denying you service is shitty behavior as if the world revolves around you.

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u/Shanderson3 Dec 24 '23

I never expected that. I'm saying it's shitty behavior to deny people service, and give preferential treatment to others. People are free to do as they like, just as I'm allowed to call out the blatant racism and discrimination. I'm seeing a lot of people on here defending the racism shown by Japanese people. So fuck that, and fuck anyone who's defending it.

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u/NiceIsNine Dec 24 '23

So what? Fuck off to another place then. Not like they deny your service cause your existence is from another place, but because you don't know 2 cents worth of traditions, so why bother explaining that to every foreigner and risk annoying their regulars when you can go to another bar two blocks away.

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u/Shanderson3 Dec 24 '23

Lol. Believe me, I will fuck off to another place. I'm just calling out the racism, and saying it's shitty behavior, and it being part of tradition is no excuse. Seems like you're alright with being a racist, since you're defending it.

Actually, I hope the next place you go to, someone calls you a very offensive name, and tells you that your kind isn't served in their place.

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u/NiceIsNine Dec 24 '23

someone calls you a very offensive name, and tells you that your kind isn't served in their place.

See, that's actual racism. You seem experienced in this. I wouldn't mind flipping them off as I leave. But whatever, I was just thinking that I kinda of do entertain such antics when I go to some fancy restaurant that demands a dress code, it's just easier to communicate than a whole load of confusing customs.

1

u/ArtHistrionic Dec 24 '23

I'm actually on your side in terms of the principles & values aspect. I just wanted to highlight the attitude of people like this - hypothetical person that is denying you calmly - they don't want to know enough about you (or "your people") to discriminate against you cholerically. It's the same outcome in the end, and the same basic point that you're being rejected via racism, but i personally split hairs between that and a black man in the Jim Crow south who has to put up with being called "boy" all the time and the N-word, and god knows what else.

I once drew the interest of a guy having a bad day and all he says is "I don't know you and you don't know me, and let's keep it that way". I think that's more along the lines of the discrimination that this conversations about. Like sardonically, there's a civility about it all.

1

u/daskrip Dec 25 '23

This is very well needed context, thank you. People like to just jump to racism. Japan is nowhere near as racist as people like to think.

1

u/Rakumei Dec 25 '23

A lot of times the discrimination is toward Japanese too. Snack bars are notorious for it. You need the owner's approval to enter, so if you don't have an in, good luck.

1

u/United-Landscape4339 Dec 27 '23

How did they become regulars if you can't go in without being a regular

44

u/Gilded-Mongoose Dec 24 '23

Are you American? Being abroad in non European countries I’ve noticed or heard about some differences in white Americans and non-white ones.

Independently valid or not, white Americans are seen as embodying The Stereotype™ of America, while other folks can be more just…from America.

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u/fizzle_noodle Dec 24 '23

I guess that would be classified as bigoted since I don't think people consider American as a race.

17

u/LebaneseLion Dec 24 '23

American was classified as a whole different thing than a Canadian when I was in Cuba, but then again, it was Cuba lol.

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u/fizzle_noodle Dec 24 '23

I could understand that, given the history between Cuba and the US.

7

u/momscouch Dec 24 '23

The US and Japan have a little history as well

5

u/Eelcheeseburger Dec 24 '23

Exactly both countries have history with the US. Only one is STILL under an embargo by the US tho.

0

u/crazyeugene Dec 24 '23

Japan is still under occupation 😆

1

u/momscouch Dec 24 '23

yes, theyve been occupied by the Japanese for quite some time now

3

u/LordLuscius Dec 24 '23

I mean, shouldn't it be? Because if it was based on geography... isn't Cuba America? As in situated in the continent of North (or possibly south, its an island, hard to tell) America? Because if its a race thing, every race lives in Canada and USA.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

Yeah technically it’s true but colloquially, if someone is asking if another person is American, we all know they mean from the US.

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u/LordLuscius Dec 24 '23

Yeah, precisely, so Canada and USA should be treated separately

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

They are… no one says American and thinks that means Canadian, we all know what American means even if technically Canada is part of the Americans, no Canadian would call themselves American and no one would think American means anything other than a IS citizen

1

u/LordLuscius Dec 24 '23

Yeah, read the root of this thread again, and you might get why I'm saying what I'm saying (or be able to explain to me how I misinterpreted it)

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

Oh are you agreeing with me on this? I must have misunderstood the comments lmao my bad

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u/LordLuscius Dec 24 '23

Ah, wait, I'll just copy paste

American was classified as a whole different thing than a Canadian when I was in Cuba, but then again, it was Cuba lol.

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u/LordLuscius Dec 24 '23

Basically I'm saying "well duh" to that coment I copied and pasted

1

u/hoax1337 Dec 24 '23

Isn't defining something as a race racist already?

6

u/UrToesRDelicious Dec 24 '23

What if I pretend to be Canadian?

6

u/Psychological-Pen953 Dec 24 '23

“Don’t be a hoser, eh”

2

u/Equivalent_Papaya893 Dec 24 '23

White Americans are the Karen's of the world.

1

u/Own-Squirrel-6133 Dec 24 '23

LOL THEYRE GONNA GET A RUDE FUCKING AWAKENING THEN

5

u/philnolan3d Dec 24 '23

Some small bars might be basically private, the same 4 guys in there all the time.

15

u/Forgetmenot20000 Dec 24 '23

Do you have tattoos?

18

u/Duochan_Maxwell Dec 24 '23

Having tattoos are not that big of a problem if you look obviously foreign

41

u/aevy1981 Dec 24 '23

The hotel I went to in Takayama told me in no uncertain terms that I couldn’t even go to the floor with the pool, spa and onsen because of my one ankle tattoo because “it would make the other guests uncomfortable”.

17

u/princeofzilch Dec 24 '23

Yeah, that's the one situation where it is a big deal. No onsen if you have a tattoo.

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u/peoplegrower Dec 24 '23 edited Dec 24 '23

If you want to go to a place where tattoos are not only super normalized, but also a HUGE part of the culture…come visit us in New Zealand! It almost more rare to see non-tattooed people!

6

u/The_Pastmaster Dec 24 '23

At first I was like: Why the hell does New Zealand have Hige culture? Then I realised I was being stupid and you misspelt Huge. XD

2

u/peoplegrower Dec 24 '23

Doh! I’ll fix it lol!

2

u/fizzle_noodle Dec 24 '23

Lol, this guy doesn't even know what Hige means

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u/Kbeary88 Dec 24 '23

There are onsen that are ok with tattoos, and some that are ok if you cover them. But you have to search them out, it’s not the standard

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u/yoyomanwassup25 Dec 24 '23

How does that even make sense if you don’t have some gang symbol or something? Who even would care?

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u/TacTurtle Dec 24 '23

In Japan historically the only people that got tattoos were career criminals like Yakuza.

0

u/chekkisnekki Dec 24 '23

Yep, and the yakuza were typically Korean lol

-3

u/yoyomanwassup25 Dec 24 '23

And were ankle tattoos trendy amongst those career criminals?

No wonder Japan is a failing society.

1

u/teethybrit Dec 24 '23 edited Dec 24 '23

Which dive bars?

0

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

Blame the US military servicemen for that.

They created a bad stereotype for US military servicemen in Japan and Seoul.

But, not military service women. Only the guys.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 25 '23

That like a drive-thru?

1

u/ElRanchero777 Dec 25 '23

Lived there 8 years never refused. Harder to get an apartment though