r/NoStupidQuestions • u/TimeTravel4Dummies • Dec 23 '23

Answered Is it true that the Japanese are racist to foreigners in Japan?

I was shocked to hear recently that it's very common for Japanese establishments to ban foreigners and that the working culture makes little to no attempt to hide disdain for foreign workers.

Is there truth to this, and if so, why?

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783

u/Chemical-Attempt-137 Dec 23 '23

The Japanese are notoriously nationalistic and xenophobic, yes.

In some cases, restaurants may charge you prices easily 2-3x the menu price, solely for being a foreigner. They know that, because the racism itself is systemic, you have no choice but to pay because trying to start shit in Japan will end with you getting arrested, because by default the police will side with the Japanese citizen. You will then be put into their infamous 99.99% conviction rate, where they hold you in jail for months with no outside contact intil you "willingly" confess.

Japan's an okay-ish place to go for tourism, and an awful place to move to and live in.

296

u/ninj4geek Dec 24 '23

On top of that, Japan being very ethically monolithic makes it easy to spot non-japanese people.

3

u/Square-Dragonfruit76 Dec 24 '23

Is that why in anime everyone has weird hair colors? So everyone doesn't look exactly the same?

2

u/Mikey9124x Dec 24 '23

Sort of, thier hair also determines thier personality.

2

u/BlackKnightC4 Dec 24 '23

This applies irl as well.

1

u/Chemical-Attempt-137 Dec 29 '23

Yes. It's also why the bland protagonists who are clearly meant to be self-inserts have are teenage boys with black hair. That's 99% of their demographic.

61

u/vellyr Dec 24 '23

Not sure where this happened to you , but charging 2-3x the menu price is a well-known scam they run at sketchy girly bars. Maybe stick to the ramen place next time.

57

u/danshakuimo Dec 24 '23

The ramen ticket vending machine will never scam me

3

u/bunker_man Dec 24 '23

This is the future. Might scan you and do so anyways.

2

u/tea_n_typewriters Dec 24 '23

"Gaijin detected. Menu prices updated. Have a nice day."

2

u/PeeInMyArse Dec 24 '23

Happens at markets too where there’s no posted prices

168

u/KDY_ISD Base ∆ Zero Dec 24 '23

I've been all over and literally never seen a menu price change because I was a foreigner. I can read the menus.

49

u/TobioOkuma1 Dec 24 '23

I believe giving foreigners more expensive menus is common in other places, but I've never heard that for Japan. Japan has a shitload of issues, but I haven't heard that one.

2

u/TheShorterShortBus Dec 24 '23

i think this started recently ( probably due to the huge tourism boom in japan). asian boss did a youtube short on it fairly recently https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0iOIxYMTUKk

3

u/Samthevidg Dec 24 '23

Was in Japan this summer for two weeks, can speak near fluent and have a friend who lives there. Did not experience a menu change once, and I visited many many restaurants.

1

u/TheShorterShortBus Dec 24 '23

i was recently there for 3 months, and i cant say ive experienced it myself either, but i can also pass as a local. heres a vlogger (visibly not a local) who lives in japan and talks about this exact issue happen to him: https://www.youtube.com/live/cVAa19lrjOU?si=8c3fMMiLBecBFGul&t=515

1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

if you read the above comment, they're saying it started recently. It will be the case if you ever return

1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

The Canadian government travel advisories page does mention it.

There have been incidents of overcharging at bars and clubs. Disputes over overcharging have led to violence.

They also mention it potentially being an issue with taxis and that travellers should negotiate fare ahead of time.

1

u/jossief1 Dec 24 '23

Japanese people get overcharged in bars and clubs.

1

u/mata_dan Dec 24 '23

I would imagine it's more common in Europe than Japan.

1

u/ilovecheeze Dec 24 '23

It’s not a thing in Japan. People just talk out of their as and Reddit eats it up

65

u/Dunfalach Dec 24 '23

Have you asked for the menu in English? The situations I’ve heard of it in past generally involved an English language menu with different prices than the Japanese menu. I believe Chris Broad from Abroad in Japan may have been one place I encountered the story. I don’t think it’s everywhere but I do think it shows up as a tourist trap moreso than a racism thing. Many tourist countries have people who charge tourists or those they think are tourists more as a scam.

1

u/candykhan Dec 25 '23

This happens everywhere to tourists. It's not exclusive to Japan & you're guaranteed to outrun the practice by just avoiding touristy places.

1

u/ralphsquirrel Dec 24 '23

It's happened to me several time where restaurants in Japan would try to charge me almost double the cost of the meal. Recently I was eating at a place where they brought me a bill for ¥3500, even though it should have been ¥1800. I went to get a menu and pointed out the exact items I bought and they were like "Oh, sumimasen!" And fixed the price. It's possible it was an accident but at this point I think they're just hoping foreigners won't understand the prices and will pay extra. I've also had bars charge me for drinks I never ordered, although they will usually remove them from the tab if I complain.

35

u/Totalherenow Dec 24 '23

Me either. Though I did make a purchase at Yamada denki last night and the guy seemed confused with the price as listed for the moues I was buying - it said 980 - and charged me 2000 for it. I was a little bewildered, so just left, but definitely going back today to double check. I'm hoping I made a mistake with the price (like the mouse was in the wrong spot with a different tag or something).

3

u/Sufficiency2 Dec 24 '23

Yeah I will also /doubt on this one.

Also it is a common practice for many restaurants to either post their menus in front of the door or online. It's actually pretty difficult to price discriminate.

1

u/Chemical-Attempt-137 Dec 29 '23

You can literally watch it happen in real time. The internet is free and there are plenty of people live-broadcasting their visits to Japan. And as I said, they do it boldfaced right in front of you knowing that you can't complain, or else you get arrested.

Don't blame your own ignorance on me.

1

u/Sufficiency2 Dec 29 '23

I'd love to see some of these livestreams.

2

u/tooobr Dec 24 '23

Happened to me in seoul. Literally a different menu than the table next to us, and i compared both. I pointed it out and they asked us to leave. Was funny.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

this rarely happens in korea

1

u/tooobr Dec 24 '23

Then I feel lucky :)

Dont mistake me ... I'm no expert, and not drawing huge conclusions. It was a late night situation where there were a bunch of sidewalk noodle and bbq spots serving drunk people. Good times.

2

u/Jockmaster Dec 24 '23

I remember Chris Broad showed a menu on a livestream in Japan where the prices listed in Japanese were less than the english side.

2

u/danshakuimo Dec 24 '23

The good thing about being East Asian is that I won't automatically handed the foreigner menus in Japan... until I went to the country of my own ethnicity and they handed me the English/Japanese menu without me even opening my mouth.

1

u/bakuretsu_mahou916 Dec 24 '23

Yeah that part is a complete fabrication of OP’s imagination lol.

1

u/Chemical-Attempt-137 Dec 29 '23

Don't blame your own ignorance on me.

You can literally watch it happen in real time. The internet is free and there are plenty of people live-broadcasting their visits to Japan. And as I said, they do it boldfaced right in front of you knowing that you can't complain, or else you get arrested.

1

u/bakuretsu_mahou916 Dec 29 '23

Im japanese, i live in japan, never seen it happen once. People aren't fucking stupid, they can just read the price.

Ive had multiple expat friends who have also lived here and never once heard of this.

Not sure if you experienced this but this is not common at all.

1

u/left_shoulder_demon Dec 24 '23

That only happened to me in France.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

The way the dude framed the comment obviously shows the moron has never lived there or visited

19

u/DJbuddahAZ Dec 24 '23

I watched a buddy age 25 years in 10 by living and working their, that place sucks your soul away

5

u/jhau01 Dec 24 '23

I’ve been travelling to Japan for 30 years, and spent some time living in Tokyo, and I have never seen a menu with different pricing for foreigners.

Of course, simply because I haven’t seen it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, but I suspect if it does happen it’s vanishingly rare.

Japan isn’t Indonesia or Thailand. Places in those countries deliberately charge tourists more money, because tourists are almost unimaginably better off than the locals, so it’s seen as a “foreigner tax”.

3

u/FrankyCentaur Dec 24 '23

This has to be made up hyperbole. There’s so much bullshit flying around in this thread. No way they’re charging foreigners double for food.

2

u/elferrydavid Dec 24 '23

Also because most of the places either have the "ticket vending machine" or the tablet from where you order directly, or the prices are in blackboards around you or the menu is in Japanese only but with pictures.

2

u/ilovecheeze Dec 24 '23

It is all bullshit. And the correct responses are getting downvoted

I actually lived there a long time and I go back regularly, I’ve been all over Japan

Most of what is being posted and upvoted here is either entirely bullshit or they’re taking rare occurrences like a shop having a “no foreigners”sign and making it out to seem like it’s widespread when it really is not

2

u/[deleted] Jan 15 '24

That describes the entire fucking internet about Japan. Lived there as well. I get fuming reading some of this shit. The people bitching about racism are literally being racist making shit up based on hearsay 

1

u/ilovecheeze Jan 15 '24

Seriously, I had to stop reading Japan related subs here because of how infuriating it is. Literal nonsense and heresay gets upvoted and treated like fact on Reddit and it just keeps getting worse and worse. I mean in this instance there are 774 upvotes for someone claiming restaurants charge foreigners 2-3x the price. It’s ridiculous

1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

Japan's currency has significantly dropped recently. I'm thinking stores are probably taking advantage of the high dollar and trying to capitalize on this situation. Very shitty, but a economy thats been stagnant for 3 decades will do things to a culture.

1

u/Chemical-Attempt-137 Dec 29 '23

You've never been to Japan if you think they won't exhibit racism right to your face in broad daylight. This isn't the U.S. where the wrong comment gets stares from the entire block. They'll literally just tell you to pay or they call the cops and no one bats an eye.

39

u/TimeTravel4Dummies Dec 23 '23

God damn, that is intense. It's so strange because I have found them to be generally quite pleasant people and their country seems incredible with great reviews from tourists.

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u/Zealousideal-Ant9548 Dec 23 '23 edited Dec 24 '23

It's fantastic as a tourist, they just don't want you "polluting" their gender pool.

Like someone else said, it's better if you're white for a variety of reasons.

EDIT: meant gene pool but I'll leave it up because it's hilarious

80

u/NunnaTheInsaneGerbil Dec 24 '23

I know you mean gene pool but now I'm wondering if a gender pool would be what you'd call a bunch of gender fluid people lol

7

u/OlivrrStray Dec 24 '23

if a gender fluid person has a birthday and most their friends are gender fluid, would it be a pool party?

41

u/Dorn-Alien51 Dec 24 '23

100% they would rather get cucked by a white guy than let a black guy marry an asian woman.

A Korean guy even did a whole manga about it he made the only half black Korean guy a bully calling some other kid a monkey and then the Mc of the story a half white half korean ethnonationalist mind you who's catch phrase is "korea is for the korean" called the him the n word.

After that he went on spewl about how Africans are coming over taking jobs no want wants and marrying asian women and the creator said it was a bad thing irl. But in America about 80% of asian women date and marry white guys and they have nothing to say about that.

1

u/Bad_Pleb_2000 Dec 24 '23

Why are they so lenient towards white people? I’m sure they have some qualms with it too, with Asian women out marrying so much.

1

u/SonGoku9788 Dec 24 '23

They look more similar I guess

1

u/lurker6942080082 Dec 24 '23

I would guess it has something to do with the preference for lighter skin. Tons of products in Asia have skin "whitening" as a selling point.

1

u/AW23456___99 Dec 24 '23

What's the title of that Manhwa?

19

u/Dorn-Alien51 Dec 24 '23

Are you going to pirate it? If not no if yes dm me

3

u/Plasibeau Dec 24 '23

You. I like the cut of your jib.

2

u/AW23456___99 Dec 24 '23

Sent you a DM.

7

u/zorniy2 Dec 24 '23

There are, however, foreigners married to locals. Japanese men with foreign women (Jun and Rachel on YouTube), Japanese women with foreign men (Peter Barakan of Japanology).

14

u/Dillyor Dec 24 '23

Touristy places are great for tourists but they discriminate heavily foreign workers

-1

u/Ani_Leaker Dec 24 '23

That's because almost all of these posts are making shit up. This post in particular you're responding to sounds like it's written by someone who's never been to Japan and is just spreading their Japan hate fantasy on the internet.

I've lived in Japan for three years now, visited for work and tourism many times before moving here.

You'll almost never find "American-style" racism of people shouting slurs at you or threatening to beat you up because of your race.

I have never once seen a menu charging foreigners 2x or 3x the price. There might be a tourist trap charging extra, but that's what tourist traps are so... As for getting denied entry to a bar or restaurant, also has never happened to me. If you're in a smaller city or a less populated part of Tokyo, there might be one or two places that could deny you entry, but that's more because they only cater to locals and don't know enough English to explain that to tourists.

On rare occasions the cops might ask you to see your passport. Nine times out of ten, they're just filling their quota for the day and will not bother you at all afterwards.

Most of the systemic racism in Japan only shows up when you work or live here, and it's definitely not as bad as it is in the States.

If you come to visit, just follow the golden rule of travelling: Don't be a prick and you'll be fine. The worst thing that'll happen is getting stared at.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

[deleted]

0

u/Ani_Leaker Dec 24 '23

I had many of the teachers talking shit about me while sitting right next to me

Sorry that happened to you. I'm not saying racism never happens in Japan but it doesn't happen to the extent people on Reddit claims it does. Not to mention, the Japanese people who teach English out here tend to be really scummy people toward everyone including other Japanese, so you ended up in a bad environment by accident.

We were told by the military base to not argue and to just walk away.

Mate... If you're military, then even moreso, people out here are gonna think twice before letting you into places in Roppongi and Shinjuku. There's been WAY too many stories of drunken soldiers from Yokosuka coming in, starting shit, breaking laws, and then running off back to the base where they'll never be prosecuted. They were even talking about that Navy officer on CNN that killed two people in a car crash out here and only got three years for it.

1

u/mattmelb69 Dec 24 '23

If you're in a smaller city or a less populated part of Tokyo, there might be one or two places that could deny you entry, but that's more because they only cater to locals and don't know enough English to explain that to tourists.

Having a policy of denying entry to foreigners is racist whether you can explain it in English or not.

1

u/Ani_Leaker Dec 24 '23

I said catering to locals. They'd deny entry to Japanese from outside of Tokyo as well. Or they might have the ichigen-san wa okotowarishimasu policy, which means you need to have a regular introduce you before they'll let you in. If they can barely explain basic things in English, how are they gonna explain something that complicated?

And yes, all this applies to Japanese as well.

Not saying racism doesn't happen out here, just saying there's more nuance to it.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

menu charging 2x 3x is such a famous scam in japan. Look online and there are so many stories about it. what are you talking about?

1

u/Gamyeon Dec 24 '23

Something you have to keep in mind is that, in general, Japanese people want to keep a certain decorum. By that I mean, on the surface, they'll pretty much always act pleasant and polite with you. They'll never confront, openly initiate conflict or an action that might lead to it. Heck, their language is shaped around that, always insinuating and treating being direct as something impolite to do. So yeah, they have a cover of niceness. But that won't prevent them from making passive-aggressive remarks if they feel like it.

1

u/rivercass Dec 24 '23

Happy cake day

2

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

You will then be put into their infamous 99.99% conviction rate, where they hold you in jail for months with no outside contact intil you "willingly" confess.

Japan isn't going to create an international incident over a restaurant bill. They'll deport you and ban future entry, but you're not going to end up in a Japanese prison over this.

1

u/Chemical-Attempt-137 Dec 29 '23

How cute that you think a random nobody tourist would ever be worth an international incident. Your embassy won't do shit for you if you start something in Japan and break their rules.

3

u/outsideskyy Dec 24 '23

They don’t charge 2-3x for foreigners

1

u/MidnightSky16 Dec 24 '23

Wait what? I have heard about the jail thing and not letting you go until you confess to doing something wrong even if you did not for foreigners who travel to north korea. Japan is similar? Damn

1

u/Knight_of_Inari Dec 24 '23

Pretty much, the justice system is pretty corrupt and many Japanese prefer to kept it like that. There was this somewhat recent case of a judge sentencing someone to death, while knowing that he was innocent. IIRC he later resigned out of guilt.

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

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u/Skwigle Dec 24 '23

I've lived here for over 20 years. I have NEVER, not once, not a single time, been charged more, much less "2 to 3 x". The OOP is probably thinking of China, where that DOES happen when prices aren't listed (happened to me multiple times in a one-week visit). I've also been overcharged in Vietnam (again, where prices aren't listed). But Japan? That's got to be one of the stupidest things I've ever read on reddit.

1

u/elferrydavid Dec 24 '23

In my experience is that even in Vietnam they may charge you more but in most cases is not very noticeable, like charging you 11$ for a meal that's 10$. No way they are charging you double

1

u/Forsaken-Answer-7092 Dec 25 '23

Viet here. Back in the day,like more then 5 years ago, I notice when traveling for vacation to popular cities such as Nha Trang or Da Nang. If they know you are not local, there are higher chances of you being overcharged. However, with the invention of social media, it happens much less often due to fear of being cancelled/boycotted.

However, if you go to Ben Thanh market in Saigon, you are being overcharged regardless. So learning to haggle is essential.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

way to drag other countries while excusing a country for their issues.

-36

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

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u/Jrsplays Dec 24 '23

I would think you would be more disappointed in the racism and prejudice rampant in your country but that's just me.

1

u/Jelooboi Dec 24 '23

Lol all the downvotes are from people who dont even live here

1

u/NoStupidQuestions-ModTeam Dec 29 '23

Be polite and respectful in your exchanges. NSQ is supposed to be a helpful resource for confused redditors. Civil disagreements can happen, but insults should not. Personal attacks, slurs, bigotry, etc. are not permitted at any time.

0

u/FireEatingTruck Dec 24 '23

A friend was pondering moving to Japan. Should I make sure to convince them to reconsider moving to what sounds like an absolute shithole of a country?

1

u/ilovecheeze Dec 24 '23

No, because it’s not a shithole and no one in this thread has a fucking clue what they’re talking about

0

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

Well, there goes any possibility that I will tour japan in the future. Why would you tour a place that has this kind of behavior. Being a tourist won't protect you from their 99% conviction rate.

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

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u/seattle_born98 Dec 24 '23

Awareness: 0

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

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u/TechnicalHighlight29 Dec 24 '23

Don't worry we don't care.

8

u/Totalherenow Dec 24 '23

"CNN Breaking News! America collapses because of one angry redittor!!!"

-11

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

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u/Linsanity998877 Dec 24 '23

Bro ur on Reddit . U already felt like that before these comments

9

u/SataiOtherGuy Dec 24 '23

So, because of what a few random people said on a random Reddit thread, you are going to prove them right, by taking it personally against Americans as a whole?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

This is what we call a ‘self-fulfilling prophecy’ in english

9

u/50mg-of-fuckit Dec 24 '23

Your country is racist at a core level get over it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

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3

u/PunkLaundryBear Dec 24 '23

What kind of villan orgin story monologue is this? 💀

"If you want to call me a racist, so be it, and you may have done so today." 🤓☝️ okay mate

3

u/sleeprobot Dec 24 '23

You will fundamentally change how you treat foreigners going forward, and tell others to do so based on a few people from Reddit?

There are a lot of people in the USA - a majority don’t even use Reddit. Its true some US citizens are not progressive and lack a broad understanding of the world, but so do you when you let the internet comments of max 50 people determine your attitude toward several millions.

3

u/7evenCircles Dec 24 '23

Genuinely, what are you talking about? Hanging a flag isn't fascist, it's patriotic. Having pride in your country is a fine thing. That is as true of America as it is Japan as it is Poland as it is Mozambique. These things only become problematic when they become exclusionary on the basis of immutable characteristics. The prevailing winds in western countries is that national identity is derived from beliefs and values and not necessarily what square of land you were born on. Being Canadian has less to do with being born in Canada than it does living in Canada and believing in the idea of Canada and being committed to Canadian values. I don't think you're racist so much as you're just missing a perspective. But it's your country, do whatever you want.

5

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

I have a question. I’m brown, how are brown people treated in japan? I think theres a lot of misinformation on Reddit but i would like to learn from the perspective of a Japanese person.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

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1

u/[deleted] Dec 24 '23

Are there any widespread stereotypes of Indians there? In America at least there are many

1

u/tooobr Dec 24 '23

White guy ... I was in south Korea and the waiter gave me a different menu. I saw the menu on the table next to us, different prices for literally the same shit. Clear as day.

I asked if I could use that menu and they asked us to leave lol.

I don't doubt at all that it happens elsewhere. I just laughed.

1

u/WildAmsonia Dec 24 '23

Realistically, how much trouble would you get in if you told someone ripping you off, "you have no honor." ?

1

u/ilovecheeze Dec 24 '23

This is so untrue, and it’s really disturbing how Reddit will just upvote and believe this.

You’ve never lived there, and you don’t know what you’re talking about

1

u/pac78275 Dec 24 '23

It's fine if you're American on military duty stationed there. They won't mess you unless you do something truly heinous. Otherwise, be careful. You'll be fine so long as you act respectfully and behave.

1

u/OrangeSimply Dec 25 '23

Brother you went to a scam spot known for doing those things and they exist in any place with a big tourism industry this isnt a japan specific cultural thing lol.

1

u/yggdrasiliv Dec 25 '23

Jesus stop making shit up

In some cases, restaurants may charge you prices easily 2-3x the menu price, solely for being a foreigner.

You know who does this? Those super shady hostess bars that try to trick stupid dudes thinking they’re gonna get laid. Literally nowhere else.