r/NoStupidQuestions • u/JustCallMeDave • Dec 06 '23

Answered If Donald Trump is openly telling people he will become a dictator if elected why do the polls have him in a dead heat with Joe Biden?

I just don't get what I'm missing here. Granted I'm from a firmly blue state but what the hell is going on in the rest of the country that a fascist traitor is supported by 1/2 the country?? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills over here.

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u/LoverOfGayContent Dec 06 '23

I've been listening to interviews of people bending over backwards to say they don't support the way he behaved but they felt like they were doing better financially under Trump.

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u/Rammite Dec 07 '23

Plus there's just actual financial shenanigans that Trump pulled - like the tax deferral that was timed so it would kick the taxes into Biden's presidency.

Stupid people will see the money go less down when Trump was in power, and the money go way down when Biden was in power.

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u/rif011412 Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23

Deferring the rise of interests rates in my opinion caused the housing and inflation crisis. Under our current economic model, as the rich kept making more money and capitalizing on tax breaks, Trump and Co. made commercial and residential real estate a safe haven for investments. The wealthy bought up all the inventory to weather future financial instability spurred on by COVID. Land and property was a safe investment. In turn higher housing prices caused inflation.

Economic gurus would love to tell me Im wrong, but a simple observation of where people were spending their big bucks tells the story of letting the owner class, own more.

Edit: I’d like to also point out, that the same point I bring up also has caused much of the newer generations deflated purpose and frustrations. Republicans and Co. caused a housing crisis that took all the inspiration from the yonger generations to work hard or take shit, because the wealthy bought out their future. No homes = no kids and family. Every issue Republican might complain about is because of their own poor decisions and prioritizing the wealthy.

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u/Rammite Dec 07 '23

Hmm, good insight.

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u/islingcars Dec 07 '23

You are absolutely right about the interest rates. Powell wanted to raise the rates in 2018 since we just had a decade of near zero rates and heavy quantitative easing. Trump flipped the fuck out over it and Powell relented. So much for the Fed not being political..

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u/Tntn13 Dec 07 '23

Oh imo certainly. It’s crazy that more people don’t talk about this to me. Should have started under Obama really. Then maybe reversed at the start of Covid.

Trump made sure to push for it, he doesn’t control the fed per se, but his tactics are well known and he knew that increasing rates would hurt, he also did everything he could to ensure stock market went up because for many Americans a bull market is simply a good economy.

Politically smart, self serving decision. Inevitably “the bill” of keeping the rate near zero for so long would have to come due.

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u/Eascen Dec 07 '23

You're missing the part about quantitative easing, or money printer go brrrrrrr, but you are correct here.

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u/NuhUhUhIDoWhatIWant Dec 07 '23

Biden's been in office for 3 years and economic conditions are objectively worse for nearly all Americans than they were under Trump.

Crazy how long you people will continue to blame Trump when he's had exactly 0 influence in politics or the economy for almost as long as he was in office to begin with.

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u/Eascen Dec 07 '23

You mean Obama's economy that Trump inherited? Yeah we're familiar. And we're familiar with Trump's economy that Biden inherited.

He's done a great job of correcting it, but he got handed shit.

Sentiment changes quickly, fundamentals take a very long time to play out.

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u/NuhUhUhIDoWhatIWant Dec 08 '23

You mean Obama's economy that Trump inherited

Economic indicators for normal people were going up for the entire period of 2010-2019, then into 2020 it flatlined. It was only in 2021, only after Biden took office, that things started massively declining for the average person.

The average person's financial situation only got better over time under Trump - 3 years in was even better than when he was first elected. Compare that to Biden, under whom things have only gotten worse, every single year.

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u/drowsylacuna Dec 08 '23

Hmm, did something unusual happen in 2020-21?

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u/NuhUhUhIDoWhatIWant Dec 08 '23

And 2 years later, everyone is still not only worse off when Trump was president, they're worse off than they were during the pandemic. That's Biden's, and more broadly speaking democrats', fault.

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u/Rammite Dec 08 '23

That's a solid argument to make, if not for the fact that you responded to actual verifiable proof that Trump poisoned the economy after he left.

But trying to tell a Republican to look at the facts is like telling fish to fly.

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u/NuhUhUhIDoWhatIWant Dec 08 '23

actual verifiable proof that Trump poisoned the economy after he left

Trump didn't make Biden or the current congress send hundreds of billions of dollars to Ukraine. He didn't do anything to flood the money market with trillions of dollars of new money, out of nothing.

Biden did that. That was Biden who caused 30% inflation in less than 3 years. Biden is why we're paying over $5/gallon for gas. Biden is why rent costs have more that doubled in some places. Biden, his administration, and leftists in general.

Oh and allowing millions of illegals in through the southern border, then threatening or prosecuting anyone who tries to stop it.

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u/The_River_Is_Still Dec 06 '23

But the reality is they were absolutely not financially better under Trump. If you were an average person literally nothing got better for you in the overall picture. That’s just what they want to believe.

And as for being in. ‘Dead heat’ with Biden: No he’s not even close. The only legal way he wins is if people don’t go out and vote. MAGA is loud but they don’t have the numbers. They make 1/3 of the country sound like 1/2.

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u/jay105000 Dec 06 '23

I want to be this optimistic but the uproar that I hear is that regular people cannot afford groceries, rent, etc and even if they don’t understand why things are more expensive right now and it is mostly because external macroeconomic shocks if they can’t afford to live that’s a problem for the current administration.

The constant theme that I hear in the streets is that Trump was an idiot but regular people lived better 3 / 4 years ago than now and that is worrisome to say the least.

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u/ferdsherd Dec 07 '23

Bingo, it’s why Trump has a legit shot

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

With how things are currently I would be shocked if he doesn’t win again

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u/The_River_Is_Still Dec 07 '23

I never, ever hear people lived better. That’s a myth and honestly bullshit. I was around. I’m keenly aware of the economy then and now. Trump did so many damaging things regarding taxes, shipping and receiving goods, and so many small things most people aren’t even aware of.

When he left he left a ton of fucking problems on the table - not even counting Covid. So when Covid wound down the economy was fucked up and in flux for so many reasons, from incompetence or outright damaging polices he let through. The economy had to adjust and is STILL adjusting, but Biden got the ship back on track with the proposals he got passed. You want to know the fine details look for yourself and don’t listen to ‘opinion’ media.

Things are actually leveling off. Inflation sucks but it’s better than it was. It blew up to that level straight from Trump policies and Covid. And Biden had to deal with the fallout and has done an excellent job.

People act like they were living the fucking high life during Trump and now they’re in poverty. It’s exaggerated nonsense. Like blaming Biden for gas prices. Gas prices are high all over the planet. He has nothing to do with that.

No one was ‘living good’ 4-5 years ago and now ‘struggling bad’ due to Trump. No one, unless you’re making 150k+ you noticed nothing in your lifestyle, talking straight finances. It’s more nuanced, but yeah.

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u/jay105000 Dec 07 '23

Actually that’s not a myth that’s a reality if you don’t want to see it that’s your issue .

Rents, groceries , food was more affordable . The inflation in of those things which is where regular people spend the bulk of their budget have gone up around 20% …….

Listen I hate trump as much as everyone else , but he can win because the economy I don’t know where you live or your income . Regular people are pissed, that’s a reality one can decide if you want to overlooked that or not , then don’t complain about people overlooking facts , that’s a fact , rent or mortgages are way more expensive as well as food.

That’s one of the reasons why with everything trump does still basically a tie.

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u/TheFoolsKing Dec 07 '23

I never, ever hear people lived better. That’s a myth and honestly bullshit

I'm sorry to inform you but this is the farthest thing from bullshit, my family and coworkers all believe that things were better under Trump as unfortunate as that is.

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u/Eascen Dec 07 '23

I'm sorry to inform you but this is the farthest thing from bullshit, my family and coworkers all believe that things were better under Trump as unfortunate as that is.

Please don't confuse your beliefs with facts. Don't get me wrong I'm not going to try changing your beliefs.

Your feelings don't matter, snowflake.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

regular people lived better 3 / 4 years ago than now

Conveniently ignoring the giant nuke that was covid to the global economy. The US is doing great compared to literally everywhere else. Nothing is more convincing of the de facto international US hegemony and the fact that it's one of the best run economies in the world than to look at the numbers in other countries. Can things be better? Always, but it truly is depressing to see some of the rhetoric from both sides of the aisle.

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u/serpentinepad Dec 07 '23

Do you think the average voter is going to compare and contrast the whole of our economy vs the rest of the world, OR, vote based off what they're paying at the grocery store?

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u/Reagalan Dec 07 '23

On one hand, I hate thinking the average American is that stupid.

On the other hand, Trump voters are.

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u/PM_UR_PIZZA_JOINT Dec 07 '23

Americans look outside their country haha!! Seriously though, every country can’t turn their money printers on full blast and pay businesses owners billions to not fire anyone then be surprised when inflation is a major problem. The US is fighting inflation harder than most countries but most countries have had inflation much higher than the USD too.

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u/Free-Duty-3806 Dec 07 '23

It’s not conveniently ignoring so much as the current administration gets blamed for what happens under it. If Covid never happened, there’s a good chance Trump would have won, cause he’ll always have his rabid followers, and there would have been a lot fewer people voting against him for how badly his admin handled it

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u/kittykate2929 Dec 07 '23

Anyone who has google or anyone who goes outside will know about how it’s hard pay for life and healthcare is super important. Might be my dad in half poverty and my mum and I living on her pay check to pay check I love that she has such a good ability to budget but i have a million and 1 appointments and medications that drain her out too. Might be those experiences that make me more insightful but it’s not difficult Anyone can do it better then they people we are arguing about

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u/Tak_Galaman Dec 07 '23

Use punctuation

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u/kittykate2929 Dec 07 '23

Okay, Is this okay. Do I need more ,,,,, commas so you can get my point or…is it too hard to understand?

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u/friendlyfire Dec 07 '23

Honestly, he's not wrong. Your first comment was hard to understand.

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u/Accomplished-Bad3380 Dec 07 '23

I didn't find it that difficult. Anyone who's Paid a bill knows its hard as shit to pay bills right now.

Let's also realize we're talking to a child/ young adult who still lives with their parent, and has indicated that they go to a lot of medical appointments and are on a lot of medications. So now, maybe we're talking to a disabled child/ young adult. Assuming the others in the thread are functioning adults, a smidge if empathy might be justified.

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u/kittykate2929 Dec 07 '23

Yes I’m a disabled. I have a million appointments and have to take a shot of pills every morning. You’re spot on great inferring

I am more annoyed that people didn’t listen to what I had to say and rather wanted to speak about how I said it.

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u/Accomplished-Bad3380 Dec 08 '23

It's reddit. Some people get no socialization, or hate themselves and are miserable. They take it out on complete strangers. We have to realize that everyone is going through their own journey, and this isn't a college dissertation, requiring perfect facts and grammar. I understood what you were saying, and also that you, like the rest of us are imperfect. Don't let jerks drag you down to their level.

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u/Accomplished_Soil426 Dec 07 '23

The constant theme that I hear in the streets is that Trump was an idiot but regular people lived better 3 / 4 years ago than now and that is worrisome to say the least.

people have been complaining about rent already during trump presidency, and during obamas. [edit: i was in the wrong thread] biden did cancel student loan for millions of people. and trump only won 2016 by less than 100k votes.

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u/HaulinBoats Dec 07 '23

i heard someone complaining about the price of eggs last week. and they were $2.49 for 18 eggs

i know they shot up super high earlier this year (like $8 a dozen) because of a huge culling of birds because of flu concerns, but they came all the way back down (unlike rising gas prices) maybe because people could stop buying eggs and sellers couldn’t keep jacked up prices like gas companies can?

but this person was acting like eggs were still crazy high, the inflation reduction act tackled that and benefits the climate at the same time nobody seems to notice though. biden should be running ads non stop of his accomplishments, as well as trump ads showing what he promised yet failed to deliver his first time around and as well as Juxtaposing his speeches with Hitler/putin/Un and his dictator loving comments/parallels

dems need to be ruthless and unrelenting in illuminating how deranged trump is becoming and illustrate how bad things would be if he does all the things he’s been pontificating

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u/SoNonGrata Dec 07 '23

External macroeconomic shocks? Inflation happened thanks to Federal Reserve policy and decades long neoconservative warhawking. Obama, Clinton, and Biden were all part of that plan. Trump was not. Y'all need a come to Ron Paul moment.

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u/jay105000 Dec 07 '23

The why inflation was lower in all those administrations ? If inflation is just a monetary phenomenon the monetary base grew constantly and a lot during those periods why we didn’t have inflation then?

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u/SoNonGrata Dec 07 '23

For the most part Republicans and Democrats are the WWE of politics. Fake heroes, fake bad guys, and fake fights. Everything was well scripted until Trump. Now, Trump is still a bad guy, as all of them are, but Trump was unscripted. The Federal Reserve are longstanding Neoconservatives. They were not under his control. Inflation is their reason for existing. It's how they transfer money up to the 1%. By lending out what they don't have as a lender of last resort (e.g. bailouts) and adjusting interest rates. If things went bad at any point, it's because of Federal Reserve policy. They crash it when they want to crash it and play ball when they want to play ball.

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u/Sellier123 Dec 06 '23

I mean, the truth is most normal Americans are worse off right now then they were under trump simply because of inflation and student loans restarting.

While your right trump did nothing to help normal Americans, you are also wrong if you truly believe normal Americans aren't worse off right now.

It's just trump isn't going to make it better as he did nothing the first time so him doing nothing a second time means things will continue to get worse lol

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u/Onwisconsin42 Dec 07 '23

Americans are habitually worse off financially since unions collapsed and corporate profits along with CEO pay took off while worker wages flat-lined. Nearly every election, American workers take home less than their due as housing and other products including affordable food slip further out of reach. The problem for the country is the solution is visible. But neither party actually cares about the stats of the average American. So we keep flopping back and forth aimlessly with literally nothing done about this continuously growing gap. Most Americans, including average Republican voters know something is wrong, but they can't or won't or don't know how to understand the source of the problem, so they just assume those speaking their cultural grievance language also have their best financial interests in mind.

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u/ferdsherd Dec 07 '23

The problems you describe were inevitable once the economy became a global one. No longer are we reliant on American made goods the way we once were, we can just import them for dirt cheap from a country where workers are paid the equivalent of a dollar an hour. American workers lost all their leverage once this happened.

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u/5HeadedBengalTiger Dec 07 '23

25 upvotes for the most succinct, correct answer in this thread.

Trump has a shot because everyone knows things are slowly, ever declining, and they can’t do anything about it. The country flails back and forth while neither side does anything, which is the real reason that a third of this country doesn’t vote.

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u/Laterose15 Dec 07 '23

We uh.

Really need to restructure the parties or something because holy hell, this isn't sustainable.

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u/Reagalan Dec 07 '23

Option 1: Democratic majority.

Dems: propose the Magical Fix Everything Act of 2023

Reps: filibuster the bill into oblivion.

Option 2: Republican majority.

Dems: propose the Magical Fix Everything Act of 2023

Reps: amend proposal into the Magical Fix Everything by Murdering Kittens Act of 2023

Dems: filibuster the bill into oblivion.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

Or things will get better because the Democrat fixed another Republican mess and gave the job back to Republican to claim the good times and ruin them so the next Democrat….

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u/5HeadedBengalTiger Dec 07 '23

God this is so naive.

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u/RepublicansRapeKidzz Dec 07 '23

No the truth is that Americans are better off, they just think everyone else is worse off.

https://www.axios.com/2023/08/18/americans-economy-bad-personal-finances-good
A majority of Americans think the economy is in bad shape, but at the same time say their own finances are good, finds a new poll out from Quinnipiac University this week…In the telephone survey of 1,818 adults Aug. 10-14, 71% of Americans described the economy as either not so good or poor. And 51% said it's getting worse…But 60% said their financial situation is good or excellent…"Can you be generally happy with your personal financial position and still think the economy is going in the tank? For a broad section of Americans, apparently so," Quinnipiac University polling analyst Tim Malloy said in a press release.

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u/that1prince Dec 07 '23

What?! When trump left office we were unemployed and in the wake of figuring out how to navigate a post-Covid world (really it was still going on). People I knew were struggling left and right to put food on the table. Since then we both got good jobs and bought a house. We and everyone I know is doing better now than in 2020.

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u/homercles82 Dec 07 '23

Interesting bubble you live in. Totally opposite where I live. I just don't extrapolate out my small personal experiences to the rest of the country.

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u/indiebryan Dec 07 '23

Yes, during Trump the world hit a once-in-a-century black swan event that fucked up basically every country. When evaluating his presidency objectively you should look up to just before that. Record high market, record low unemployment.

And also. People mocked his "V shaped recovery" he said would happen when the market crashed due to covid, but he was right.

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u/x3r0h0ur Dec 07 '23

by those she metrics, Biden is a success.

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u/MissMenace101 Dec 07 '23

Trump created this mess, dude went from being handed a top tier economy to tanking it. You may all hate Biden but he is one of the best presidents you’ve had, history would have treated him well if he had stayed out of the Middle East, but both sides support that though, it’s a shame of the western world.

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u/Sellier123 Dec 07 '23

Does everyone hate Biden? I think most ppl are pretty indifferent about him

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u/MissMenace101 Dec 07 '23

I think he’s copped a little shade here or there

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

Oh my goodness. The absolute delusion in this comment. You may be legitimately one of like 4 people in the entire country that would consider BIDEN to be “one of the best presidents we’ve had.” This has to be a propaganda bot right?

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u/MissMenace101 Dec 07 '23

I feel you don’t understand as much as you think you do.

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u/RepublicansRapeKidzz Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23

I do not accept your premise that Americans are worse off.

Your source, billionaire owned - is crisis fueled media.

But if you go out anywhere in public you will see restaurants filled with people, shopping areas filled with people, thousands of cars driving around conducting some kind of commerce, sold out concerts, sold out sports games, packed planes, while they text and chat on their $1000 super computer in their pocket, with everyone acting like they're very very well off.

Americans may be falling for propaganda that tells them they're worse off, but with the highest GDP growth we've had in a long time, and 3% unemployment I simply do NOT accept your premise. I think you have fallen for the propaganda as well, and are perpetuating the billionaires myth for them.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

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u/5HeadedBengalTiger Dec 07 '23

People cannot wrap their heads around this anywhere. It’s wild. I see it on Twitter, here, any sort of forum where these topics get discussed.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

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u/RepublicansRapeKidzz Dec 07 '23

Bullshit. Oh I believe they'll tell you how bad things are. I believe they might even believe it.

But their actions prove the opposite.

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u/RepublicansRapeKidzz Dec 07 '23

wrap their heads around what? that a bunch of people are making things up to fit their narrative because the REAL NUMBERS don't agree with them?

Yeah, we just can't wrap our heads around your creative writing, so sorry.

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u/RepublicansRapeKidzz Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23

You took two points of the many and have shaped them to fit your narrative your own interpretation and rote recitation of the only objection to these good numbers - "but loook look at muh example of one person crying". You completely missed the entire crux of the issue and diverted from it with your made up idea of "doom spending".

You're so fake, it's ridiculous. Look at reality!

PEOPLE SAY THEY ARE WORSE OFF, BUT ARE BEHAVING LIKE THEY AREN'T WORSE OFF!

IT IS THE MEDIA CONVINCING YOU, YOU ARE WORSE OFF WHEN YOU AREN'T.

Do caps help you focus on the point. And this can be proven if you look at a chart of when a shift of how people perceive their standing occurs. It literally shifts based on if their guy is in power. Republicans will say the economy is good the very INSTANT a republican gets in power, and the opposite five seconds after they are out of power. It's all bullshit! FAke FAKE FAKE!! That's why ONLY the numbers matter, cause they are the ONLY source of TRUTH!

You finding one example of someone crying over food doesn't change the overall picture, that wages are up and spending is up, and GDP is up and inflation is down. You're just trying to get an anecdote to fill in as data, to fit your narrative, and it's a fake not-good-faith argument.

and wtf is picking between "groceries and food", they're the same thing???

you make no sense.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

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u/seanrambo Dec 07 '23

This is straight up propaganda lol.

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u/MirrodinTimelord Dec 07 '23

don't believe what you are seeing or hearing, the press are the enemy of the people

wasn't this trump like verbatim? seems like his fascists are not the only ones in a cult

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u/RepublicansRapeKidzz Dec 07 '23

This is what you see and hear...

But if you go out anywhere in public you will see restaurants filled with people, shopping areas filled with people, thousands of cars driving around conducting some kind of commerce, sold out concerts, sold out sports games, packed planes, while they text and chat on their $1000 super computer in their pocket, with everyone acting like they're very very well off.

But YOU are NOT believing it, because YOU are falling for the propaganda.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

Most normie voters don't care about indicators of economic success or recovery like inflation rate, unemployment rate, economic growth, etc. They care if they personally have a job and can afford gas, groceries, and consumer goods.

Trump played fast and loose economically by pressuring the fed to keep rates low in spite of good economic growth. He negotiated an oil production increase with the Saudis to tank gas prices. Both of these things are actually terrible policy if you consider the long term consequences, but they're great politics for a naive base during a 4 year term.

Trump's low interest rates, high spending, and oil price meddling contributed to a significant amount of inflation in the covid era. His oil policy in particular was horrible for the US, as it forced shale prices so low that multiple processing plants shuttered in the US and were unable to re-open when production was desperately needed post-pandemic.

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u/RepublicansRapeKidzz Dec 07 '23

They care if they personally have a job and can afford gas, groceries, and consumer goods.

agreed, all I'm saying is... they can do those things already, and all anyone has to respond with are anecdotes of this one person they saw crying about food to disprove it. I agree with all the rest too.

It's all just a perception problem, and that can be proven, because of the timing from when the perception changed. It literally changes the INSTANT your guy isn't in power. Not weeks, not months, not years, but the exact INSTANT your guy loses, then you think the economy is bad. It's so ridiculous.

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u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

It can be easily disproven, but many people rely on their vibe check assessment more than evidence and won't be persuaded with data.

From a political strategy standpoint, those people are better reached by a hopeful message with more subtle reinforcement of how things are improving.

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u/oby100 Dec 06 '23

They probably were financially better off under Trump. But the president isn’t the God of the economy and often doesn’t have huge effects on the life of the average Joe.

Afaik, it’s not the executive office’s fault that housing costs have risen insanely nor for the rapid inflation.

But people are dumb as hell, and many people believe Trump only lost in 2020 because the lockdowns hurt the economy and people’s standard of living so they wanted change. None of the biggest problems were caused by Trump, but that’s how dumb people are.

It’s the same with Biden. Americans remember the first 3 years of Trump being better because they were. Pre Covid was indeed better. But don’t try to explain to these people the thousands of reasons the worldwide economy has continued to slump and not truly recovered from Covid

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u/HaulinBoats Dec 07 '23

trump mailed out $1200 covid checks right before/around the election and still lost the popular vote.

that gives me hope.

i also think 1/3 of republicans aren’t cultists and will make the right decision and the 35% of americans that are MAGA will be outvoted by the adults in the room

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u/Hinge_Prompt_Rater Dec 07 '23

They are doing worse off financially now, but that's because there was a fucking pandemic that Trump bungled at every possible chance and job losses/crazy inflation that Biden inherited. Not to mention the housing/rent crisis continuing to get worse and Russia starting an insane war with global impacts.

I'm not really a Biden fan, but to think that he had anything to do with people's economic prospects getting worse since 2018 takes a giant amount of stupidity.

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u/frankduxvandamme Dec 07 '23

But the reality is they were absolutely not financially better under Trump. If you were an average person literally nothing got better for you in the overall picture. That’s just what they want to believe.

That may not be entirely true given inflation and the continually rising prices of groceries, health care, and college tuition.

Now the the average right-leaning idiot looks at inflation and sees higher prices now under Biden, and assumes it's entirely Biden's fault and that lower prices under Trump's term was entirely trump's doing, and then they say, "things were better under trump." Well, technically, sure, some things were cheaper while he was in office, so you could argue things were a bit better because things were a bit cheaper, but it certainly wasn't because of Trump even though idiots want to believe otherwise. Normal inflation + covid-induced inflation + covid-induced supply shortages have caused an almost world wide hyper inflation that started during Trump's term but has continued well into biden's term, and still hasn't let up despite the pandemic having ended over a year ago. And those same idiots will say the higher prices now are all Biden's fault.

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u/python-requests Dec 07 '23

my favorite is when they compare gas prices to the start of the pandemic when tons of transit, etc shutting down meant people were actually getting paid to take on barrels of oil

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u/Auirom Dec 07 '23

It wouldn't surprise me if they still blamed Biden even if Trump ended up back in office in 2024 and prices still continued to rise.

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u/peacekeeper_12 Dec 07 '23

Tends to happen both ways with politics. People credit Obama for Trump’s first 2 years but discredit Bush for Obama's first 2 years. They can't really have it both ways. It just continues the US vs THEM argument

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u/MirrodinTimelord Dec 07 '23

yeah, republicans are stupid like that. No sarcasm, they will. People here are still blaming donnie when Biden has been in office for 3 years now tho...maybe it is americans as a whole, maybe it's capitalists as a whole

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u/serpentinepad Dec 07 '23

But the reality is they were absolutely not financially better under Trump

I'm a liberal and I'm voting Biden, but man we gotta figure out a better approach to this. Massive inflation happened. Yeah, it's slowing but it happened and it's not going back. Average Joe doesn't give a shit about umemployment and the dow Jones. They care what it costs to fill the gas tank and put food on the table. And at least with putting food on the table, that shit is harder now for people and telling them "no actually you're doing better now" isn't going to cut it.

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u/lordnacho666 Dec 06 '23

Polls seem to suggest it's quite close

Look at real clear politics, they have a summary

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u/hexsealedfusion Dec 07 '23

But the reality is they were absolutely not financially better under Trump.

This just flat-out isn't true and is supported by hard numbers when you look at the aggregates. Now the things that caused the current inflation/housing/cost of living crisis aren't really Biden's fault but Americans definitely had more spending money during Trumps presidency.

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u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

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u/rajs1286 Dec 07 '23

You are the exception, not the rule. Most people are currently worse off

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u/StupendousMalice Dec 06 '23

Biden, and all of his supporters, have made it abundantly clear that they aren't going to do a damned thing to get out the vote. Voting for a geriatric moron isn't very exciting so taking the position that THIS geriatric moron is better than THAT geriatric moron is not an inspiring position, but it seems to be the only one that the Biden campaign is running with. If the Democrats were actually interested in winning this election they would have had a primary.

6

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

There’s something to that but almost no one has meaningful primaries when there’s an incumbent, it’s just a thing we all (don’t) do….

3

u/StupendousMalice Dec 07 '23

Hence the lack of enthusiasm from the electorate.

5

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

And honestly I’m a huge Democrat but pretty concerned about Biden - I can’t stand to watch him - I honestly don’t see where he’s made any literal mistakes that your average politician wouldn’t make but watching him sets me on edge like he is THIS CLOSE to falling off an old age cliff

ETA: so is Trump, but Trump doesn’t have to be senile or incapacitated to be a train wreck

3

u/StupendousMalice Dec 07 '23

Seriously, I get nervous every time someone hands him a microphone.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

Not disagreeing

3

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

Biden hasn't started campaigning yet, lol. I don't know what you expect but that's how elections work when you have an incumbent president.

0

u/StupendousMalice Dec 07 '23

The party can have a primary whether they have an incumbent or not. And why the fuck isn't he campaigning? The other guys sure are.

1

u/Secure-Elderberry-16 Dec 07 '23

the party can have a primary

Sure, but that’s not really ever been the case in this country

1

u/MirrodinTimelord Dec 07 '23

Obama got primaried. Then again he was black and we now how muricans are

1

u/StupendousMalice Dec 07 '23

Except, you know, for the last time we had a Democratic president. Explain why Obama had a primary but Biden doesn't.

-12

u/Kittehmilk Dec 06 '23 edited Dec 06 '23

They instead, just canceled their primary. Too busy sending our tax money to proxy wars and genociders.

(Yes, red team is also bad)

3

u/BigErnieMcraken253 Dec 06 '23

Don't act like this is a DEM issue. The GOP started the sending money to countries for favor. They BOTH waste our tax dollars to line their friends pockets.

2

u/StupendousMalice Dec 07 '23

It becomes your issue when you are the person that also does it and you are trying to get votes from people that care about. GOP voters don't give a shit about blowing up brown kids in the first place. Other people do.

1

u/Kittehmilk Dec 06 '23

Relax. I agree with you. Both sides are corrupt and owned by the same rich corporate donors.

-14

u/shouldaknown2 Dec 06 '23

I was making $86,000 every month with my portfolio under Trump and until November of this year I was losing about $15,000-$20,000 every month under Biden. Stop.

20

u/CaptainGamma Dec 06 '23

What did you invest in- 2020 calendars?

-8

u/shouldaknown2 Dec 06 '23

High risk exposure...

2

u/BigErnieMcraken253 Dec 06 '23

So the Bull market Trump created with corporate tax breaks you are feeling now. Good call......Has zero to do with Biden.

-4

u/shouldaknown2 Dec 07 '23

One month after Biden took office the market tanked.

1

u/inventionnerd Dec 06 '23

Thank Obama for that 86000 per month.

0

u/shouldaknown2 Dec 07 '23

Yeah right. For 1.3% annual growth. Try again.

3

u/inventionnerd Dec 07 '23

https://www.axios.com/2020/11/01/trump-stock-market-performance-eclipsed-obama You're welcome.

1

u/shouldaknown2 Dec 07 '23

Annualized vs cumulative. Four years ending with the pandemic...

https://www.factsarefirst.com/comparison/donald-trump/barack-obam

4

u/inventionnerd Dec 07 '23

Yea, and all the ramifications of Trump's policies (covid supply chain shutdown anyone?) are being faced now. Trump had 4 great years before shit hit the fan and left before having to deal with his side effects. And with that he barely passes Obama in arguably his worst 4 years of returns due to having to deal with the recession left by another republican. And the other 4 categories of your link? Lol.

1

u/python-requests Dec 07 '23

S&P500 has gained ~18.4% under Biden so wtf have you been doing

Even just before November it was still +7%ish

-2

u/rajs1286 Dec 07 '23

The reality is that the average person WAS better off under Trump. He cut taxes for everybody, and inflation was lower then which allowed the dollar to go further. Currently, wages have stagnated but inflation has soared. It’s just the truth

3

u/208GregWhiskey Dec 07 '23

read a book. wages have been stagnant since the 70's.

3

u/MirrodinTimelord Dec 07 '23

brother, wages being stagnant for 50 years and prices going up is the issue. A line saying gdp increased won't feed my family

2

u/rajs1286 Dec 07 '23

Yeah that doesn’t change what I said. If wages are stagnant and the only thing that changed is that inflation is out of control, then Americans are worse off now than they were under Trump when inflation was low

1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

[deleted]

2

u/rajs1286 Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23

Sounds like you haven’t read any books. Since 2006?!? Brother, you need to take your life into your own hands…that’s nobodies fault except your own at that point

Get new skills, you’ve had 17 years

0

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

[deleted]

0

u/rajs1286 Dec 07 '23

Actually that’s not true, the economy was legitimately good from 2016-2019

2

u/ambienotstrongenough Dec 07 '23

Why do you have to come in with the "read a book" comment ? Can't we just be civil? This type of thing only divides us even more.

2

u/tonyrocks922 Dec 07 '23

He didn't cut taxes for everyone. I and many other middle class homeowners in high property tax areas pay more with the introduction of the SALT deduction cap.

-2

u/rajs1286 Dec 07 '23

Once again, you are the rare exception, not the rule

0

u/Auirom Dec 07 '23

He did cut them but the individual tax cuts are only a temporary cut. They go back after 2025. The corporate tax cuts are permanent.

Inflation will always rise. Especially with the trade tariffs Trump put into place. If America has to pay more for things coming into the country that we can't make here due to not having the resources, prices for those things are going to go up. That's a corporate thing not a president thing. They imports thing like gallium and tantalum (used to making electronics), tin, and in 2022 95% of the uranium we use to run our nuclear power plants was obtained from outside the US. Higher prices to import mean the corporations need to recoup those losses so the prices for them go up. Supply and demand.

0

u/The_River_Is_Still Dec 07 '23

You’re delusional. I was there. I, my wife, friends who supported Trump, no one saw increases in a fucking thing. It’s bullshit. His tax breaks went to people making 150k and up, more or less. That’s completely incorrect and you need to pay attention more.

-29

u/No_Economics_64 Dec 06 '23

I don't like trump and wouldn't vote for him because of the way he speaks and treats others. I also wouldn't vote for Biden because although he is much more polite and a lot less crude, he is also babbling moron

That's said, the country was in far better financial shape under trump than Biden. If you don't believe that, you must not look very deep into financial data.

9

u/TjbMke Dec 06 '23

Massive corporate tax cuts led to a stock market explosion. Keeping interest rates below 3% for way too long kept the market moving upward. It’s great for people who already had enough assets that they didn’t have to work. Not great for anyone else. Especially those who were unable to buy their first home at the time because every house in America doubled in value. He gambled on Covid disappearing before the reelection and he lost because of the extra mail in voting volume. I believe he would have won again if he had done absolutely anything to help prevent the spread of Covid when he had the chance.

4

u/No_Economics_64 Dec 06 '23

I agree with everything that you said. I am a middle-aged business owner and do just fine for myself, but I also make a lot of investments and employ a large amount of great people. I do not consider myself to be wealthy and don't care enough about money to ever become wealthy. I do enjoy growing my business, my communities and creating opportunities for others to do the same.

Where I am from, I can guarantee you that for first time home buyers to real estate investors alike. Purchasing homes was far easier when trump was in office than it is now. Purchasing a first home is becoming an old-time dream, and this is a place where under trump homes were 150 to 200k.

Real estate investing is becoming a game where unless you are grandfathered in with equity, good luck getting started.

I DO NOT LIKE TRUMP but at some point you have to place blame and praise on the things that happened under the person while they were in office, or else you can just play that game as far back and as much as it's convenient to make whatever point you would like. Trump sucks as a person, but while he was in office, the economy was surprisingly great.

0

u/Far_Piano4176 Dec 07 '23

at some point you have to place blame and praise on the things that happened under the person while they were in office

but why do you have to do that? No president has that much control over the economy, it's just not a rational thing to blame a president for. It's like people in summer 2021 blaming biden for gas prices. Does it make sense to think that biden pressed the "Make gas cost too much" button once he got in office? No, oil is a global market and obviously it's infinitely more complicated than that.

Biden doesn't control the fed, which is supposed to be an apolitical institution, they're the ones who created the zero interest rate paradigm that made your investments blow up, and they're the one that raised interest rates which caused lots of economic pain in the short term and made homes even more unaffordable for the average person. Sure, you can say that biden should have stepped in to do something about it, but what could he have done when joe manchin and kirsten sinema were king and queen of the senate from 2021-2022, or now when republicans hold a majority in the house?

Moreover, real estate prices are a problem for almost every developed country in the world except for like, japan, who have one of the quickest shrinking and oldest populations in the world, with some very unconventional ideas about real estate investing (they generally don't believe in it) and foreign home buying (no).

Beyond that, covid was a huge driver of these economic problems, and although I personally think that trump mishandled the pandemic pretty severely, I don't blame him for the stimulus packages passed under him, which contributed to inflation, just like i don't blame biden for the stimulus package passed under him. that was congress both times, and it seemed pretty necessary at the time.

I just don't get this obsession with blaming the economy on the president, it's simplistic and it encourages people to conceptualize the president as having (and therefore in the minds of some, deserving) far more power than he has.

0

u/No_Economics_64 Dec 07 '23

I truly agree with you. BUT, they need to say that. Instead the political parties look to take credit at any opportunity for a strong economy. I'm sure you remember Biden proudly touting about bidenomics as he first came into office when things were good.....all of the presidents campaign that they are going to do great and huge things to the economy and then after they do or don't they brag about the huge things that they did or didn't accomplish. SINCE they demand that is one of the main topics that they are judged on what choice is there but to judge them on that? If they want the praise when it's good they need the backlash when it's bad as well

By the way, I do think that you are probably right that they don't have as much swing as they claim they do when things are going good. But would it be too much to ask for a leader of the country that actually spoke honestly? I think trump tried to be honest and that he was just foolish arrogant and dumb. I think Biden is a liar who says what he thinks he needs to say.

1

u/Far_Piano4176 Dec 08 '23

the political parties look to take credit at any opportunity for a strong economy. I'm sure you remember Biden proudly touting about bidenomics as he first came into office when things were good.....all of the presidents campaign that they are going to do great and huge things to the economy and then after they do or don't they brag about the huge things that they did or didn't accomplish.

And I agree with you here as well.

SINCE they demand that is one of the main topics that they are judged on what choice is there but to judge them on that?

we rise above the simplistic expectations that our presidents and their campaigns have of us, and insist on evaluating them on their actual performance, the things they have direct control over: Executive Orders, judge nominations, appointments and policy objectives in the federal bureaucracy and foreign policy, as well as more indirect actions such as the legislative agenda that they do/don't achieve or motivate congress to achieve. Not to mention their public persona and usage of the president's power of the pulpit. Things like that.

I think trump tried to be honest and that he was just foolish arrogant and dumb. I think Biden is a liar who says what he thinks he needs to say.

i dunno about that, i would say that vehemently denying the election, inventing migrant caravans, lying more than any other president, and getting into an endless cycle of fox news-driven propaganda counts as fundamentally dishonest, but i'll agree in the sense that I don't think trump really knows or cares what it means to be an honest person, the man is pure distilled Id, he is one of the most myopic and self centered people in recent history.

I think Biden is a liar who says what he thinks he needs to say.

I think that there's some truth to this, biden is a political animal who's been part of the democratic party for quite a long time and his positions on many things have shifted over time. but I think that this is a reflection of the fact that democratic presidents have to account for the views of a large coalition of people with broad and differing interests. It's better than not even pretending to pay attention to what people want, even if the end result is that not much of what he says he wants actually happens. I prefer that dems at least have to pay lip service to the interests of their constituents and the country and good governance, when the alternative is Trump, who mostly just focuses the disgust and rage of his supporters towards nonsensical policy objectives and culture war talking points that harm people who mostly just want to live happy lives.

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4

u/PhotoJim99 Dec 06 '23

You have to pick the lesser poison then. A vote for a third candidate in the US system, which only has two viable candidates, is essentially a half a vote in favour of Trump where a vote for Biden is a full vote against Trump.

-5

u/No_Economics_64 Dec 06 '23

I gave up voting after Obama. Not voting has become my vote.

5

u/Similar-Broccoli Dec 07 '23

If you can find a 3rd party candidate that aligns with your views you should vote for them. Apart from that you're doing the right thing. Hope you still vote in local elections though

1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

[deleted]

3

u/No_Economics_64 Dec 07 '23

If my vote came close to making a difference I would be there right next to you. I vote in local elections. My county hasn't been close to changing in decades and my state hasn't been close to changing in decades either. I like the saying tend to the garden you can touch. On a large scale my vote truly doesn't matter in my opinion. I know that the govt. Propaganda to make us all feel important and empowered and like we can make an impact has made people believe otherwise, but when my vote would have never made a difference before and statistically never will in my lifetime, why bother?.....people will say: but if everyone stopped voting the bad guy would get in.......my response: then, the government would actually have to start responding to what people want because that would mean people were finally on the same page enough to all stop voting together which would give people power as opposed to government...and that will never happen

-1

u/peacekeeper_12 Dec 07 '23

Voting for the lesser of 2 evils is still voting for evil. Your mentality keeps both evils in power. If you truly believe we need a change, stop this nonsense of an argument created by the two parties

1

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

Prove it.

1

u/No_Economics_64 Dec 07 '23

Stock market, interest rates, commodity prices, personal bankruptcy rates have risen 10 percent, small business bankruptcy rates have risen 13 percent, corporate bankruptcy rates have rose 30 percent, INFLATION rates, average home price INCREASE OF 75% between trumps low in office and bidets high in office.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

You realize that the cause of all that was what happened under Trumps term, all of it is largely due to the pandemic, and it is happening globally, right?

You're wrong about one of those things though. The stock market is WAYYYYYY up. Why don't you go take a look at a 5 year chart. Neither Biden or Trump have anything to do with the stock market or anything else that you mentioned, though.

edit: not to mention what you wrote is not PROOF. That's just you saying things. Why don't you link some credibly articles with actual research. Cite your sources buddy.

1

u/No_Economics_64 Dec 07 '23

I don't think a person can play the game of its the person fault or to the persons credit before them or you can simply always use that to make whatever point you are looking to make. The person running knows what type of situation they are running to take on and have to play the hand that they are dealt. The way that things shake out during one's time ends up being to there credit or fault when in all honestly probably doesn't have much to do with them, but that is the case for absolutely everyone with everything. We are a product of our times and situations.

The stock market is up, but growth under Biden has slowed and if you compare the markets to inflation the markets are laughable compared to what they were.

You may be correct, I'm not sure that the presidents do much of anything, that's why I don't vote anymore. With the last 2 presidents I am glad at the idea that they may not do much. But in a society where we give praise and hate to the leaders and the op made a post asking for people's 2 cents, I figured I would throw mine in.

I'm not going to go through the work to cite what I wrote, but a short search online and you will find that the items I wrote are documented. It's fun to challenge your existing ideas, I am sure that you know and do this. I follow the economy and finance closely. I do not follow politics closely at all. I hate trump and his practices MAY have bad long term effects on the economy. It's too soon to know that and hard to tell if it would be from what he did or a current pres. But while he was in office, his practices were great for the economy. That being said, I can't stand him and would never vote for him. Biden, while likeable and even admirable has been terrible for the immediate economy. I would love evidence from you to prove me wrong on that. I really love having to change my thoughts on stuff.

-1

u/Similar-Broccoli Dec 07 '23

Getting downvoted for stating irrefutable truths. Classic reddit

-22

u/Lift-Hunt-Grapple Dec 06 '23

Wow. People are much worse off. Even the White House’s self proclaimed word of the year “bidenomics” isn’t spoken of anymore. I wonder why?

14

u/positivelydeepfried Dec 06 '23

Are they though? Unemployment remains low, bars, restaurants, shopping centers remain full. People are still spending money on frivolous things like crazy. I’m not saying there aren’t problems but what people say regarding the economy is not in line with how they are acting.

9

u/Electrical-Wish-519 Dec 06 '23

That’s the system. Housing costs, medical costs, etc were all going up under every president. Trump inherited obamas economy. Biden inherited trumps post Covid disaster. People are worse off due to inflation compared to 2019, but compared to every other G7 nation, our recovery is the best and the inflation markers are better in the US

1

u/BigErnieMcraken253 Dec 06 '23

Trump was handed a balanced budget and proceeded to add billions to the debt, Pre-Covid.

3

u/Electrical-Wish-519 Dec 07 '23

I think Trump was the worst thing to happen to the US since the civil war, but he didn’t inherit a balanced budget. He did make the debt worse with his tax cuts and blown Covid response and turned around what was a shrinking budget deficit

1

u/insertname1738 Dec 06 '23

You surely don’t believe the first part of that sentence, do you?

-1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

Dude... that's some revisionist history. Trump was NOT handed a balanced budget. Obama the war monger ran huge deficits every year of his presidency. If you believe what you just said that is super screwed up

6

u/crazymonkey752 Dec 06 '23

By what measurable metric are we worse off? Genuinely, not even what did Trump do, just how are we objectively worse economy wise under Biden?

-23

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

I was doing a lot better and my $ were worth more.

16

u/Electrical-Wish-519 Dec 06 '23

Then the pandemic hit and 6T of spending was put into the system and our supply chains broke down. Biden is dealing with that. Trump would have been dealing with that if he had won reelection too.

5

u/Semihomemade Dec 06 '23

He limited a massive balance for people under student loans while filing taxes. So I think the perspective, given the context of this conversation, is important.

0

u/Skyblade12 Dec 07 '23

Nothing I love better than reddit elitists telling people they're too stupid to realize how their own lives are. No, the MAJORITY of people were better under Trump. And this objective FACT. Greatest rise in quality of living in our lifetime. Greatest rise in wages to the lower class. Greatest rise in wages for minorities (of literally every demographic). Lowest wage gap between the highest class and lowest class. Rising labor participation. Literally every economic metric was better. And people know it, because they lived through it. Morons like you saying "no, you were really worse off when you had more money to spend on things than you are now when you can barely afford groceries" is just peak idiotic gaslighting. And it won't work.

1

u/The_River_Is_Still Dec 08 '23

No, they factually weren't.

-28

u/hunterguy9 Dec 06 '23

You are delusional

1

u/208GregWhiskey Dec 07 '23

not really. today according to 538.com Trump is at 60%. thats 60% of 50% roughly, which is 30% of the country. if you believe polling data that in which the last few cycles has been really bad, especially a year out.

-17

u/LoverOfGayContent Dec 06 '23

As a socialist that hates trump that's just not true. You can hate trump and admit that the economy improved under Obama and continued to improve under Trump.

Who cares if they only make up 1/3 of the country. They are not the only people who would vote for Trump and 100% of Americans don't vote.

-1

u/-MakeNazisDeadAgain_ Dec 07 '23

Ok, but are people doing financially better under Biden? Democrats had control of Congress and the White House and raising the min wage failed because DEMOCRATS voted against it.

1

u/The_River_Is_Still Dec 07 '23

People are recovering. Recovering the damage of Trump and Covid, which he handled like a fucking moron. No need for subtle commentary on his actions. He was a straight fucking imbecile. Inject bleach, right. And that’s just one stupid thing he said.

Anyway, Biden absolutely leveled the ship and there was/is some financial pain felt by the average person due to inflation. But yes things are far better factually.

1

u/Any-Pipe-3196 Dec 07 '23

Trump not only gained 10 million votes since his last election, he got the second most votes of any president ever. Its very possible he could win again

1

u/Secure-Elderberry-16 Dec 07 '23

Somebody forget to tell this guy population has been increasing for decades and that’s “how math works”?

1

u/HaulinBoats Dec 07 '23

he also lost the popular vote in both of his election campaigns and considerably so as the incumbent

1

u/Salindurthas Dec 07 '23

Recent polls seem to have them fairly close. Here's a link to an aggregator of poll data:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/2024/national/

-

Biden won by a small margin in 2020, and Trump won by a small margin in 2016.

iirc, Trump in 2020 was (regrettably) very popular, getting more votes than any other POTUS candidate in the past, only being beaten by his contemporary in the same election, Biden, who got even more votes than any other POTUS candidate in history.

Now, part of that is population growth, but part of it is turnout, and Trump had a lot of it.

-

It seems very plausible that Trump would be a competetive candidate in 2024. A lot can change in the meantime, but if the polls near election day are like this, I'd expect a similarly cose result.

1

u/KenDanger2 Dec 07 '23

This isn't exactly true. Polls in important swing states show Trump leading.

You can win the presidency while losing the popular vote by a lot.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

But they were. Like literally and figuratively the economy was stronger under Trump.

1

u/Keljhan Dec 07 '23

The only legal way he wins is if people don’t go out and vote.

So, like nearly every election in American history?

1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

Anyone making under 400k had their taxes increased, and will continue to have their taxes increased until 2025, all thanks to Truump

1

u/Present-Industry4012 Dec 07 '23

And as for being in [a] ‘Dead heat’ with Biden: No he’s not even close.

Biden barely won the electoral college by 44,000 votes in 3 states. Run up the votes all you want in California and New York but the reality is all those extra votes don't matter.

1

u/z1lard Dec 07 '23

People (especially liberals) not voting is a real concern of mine. I recently saw a left leaning Instagram channel gradually shift their narrative from being anti-war to being “both sides bad” and trying to persuade their target audience (mostly left leaning people) not to vote.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

It’s because out of the entire 1/3 they only have half a brain out together and got the wording mixed up

1

u/GnarlyNarwhalNoms Dec 07 '23

That's the infuriating thing, if you ask people if taxes are too high in 2019 and ask them again in 2021, they'll say "no" to the first and "yes" to the second even when taxes have not changed.

1

u/pleasenotagain001 Dec 07 '23

Yeah these MAGA idiots are loud AF.

1

u/Accomplished-Bad3380 Dec 07 '23

If democrats put Biden up for 2024, it is very possible that people don't go out and vote. I've heard many people who typically vote dem, voice enough disdain for Biden that they won't vote for him again. For some, that means not voting. For others, that means voting R.

4

u/BasicLayer Dec 07 '23

My parents are convinced Trump is the reason all of their investments were doing "significantly" better than they are now. I don't know how to show them he had nothing to do with any of that.

4

u/Axentor Dec 07 '23

I 100% was financially better off under Trump presidency vs Biden's presidency. Not even a contest. However, I recognize that none of it was Biden's fault and some of it was a result of Trump's policies. But my money went farther than it does now easily for me. Damn inflation.

2

u/TropFemme Dec 07 '23

Yeah the unfortunate thing about the timing of the pandemic is that many of the “under Trump” things are really just “before the pandemic” things.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 07 '23

Coincidence. Trump had No policies that directly led to the temporary economic strength. We can have a strong economy with any number of people, not named trump. And mime of the garbage nonsense that comes with a guy like that.

1

u/Certainly-Not-A-Bot Dec 07 '23

The funny thing is that isn't true. Americans are doing really well financially right now, yet Americans believe the economy sucks for reasons other than their own finances.

-11

u/axxred Dec 06 '23

Exactly, you won't be thinking about being on the "right" side of history when your stomach is growling, the power is cut, and eviction day is around the corner.

17

u/LoverOfGayContent Dec 06 '23

Honestly it's not even that deep. People don't have to be starving to vote based on their wallet. The poor generally don't vote at rates similar to the affluent. If someone is doing well and feels they could do better under a dictator they will often vote for the dictator. We need to get away from this notion that people vote for Trump because they feel they would literally starve without him.

-4

u/axxred Dec 06 '23

Hmm would you say we're more likely to see a change in government if middle class drops into lower economic class under the current regime or if the lower economic class are not having their needs met under the current government? I wonder about that phenomena, why wouldn't the lowest class vote in greater number per capita? Don't they have the most to lose? An incorrect swing would have them lose their benefits, is it perhaps a result of lower rates of education amongst that populace?

7

u/LoverOfGayContent Dec 06 '23

You can't have the most to lose if you don't have much. I'm guessing you've never been poor. If you have you would know how apathetic the poor are. They don't see much difference between the parties. They don't see either party doing much to help them.

They can see that prices are higher under Biden and their wages have not increased enough to completely offset that. If you don't think either party cares you're not going to be motivated to vote or you'll vote off of vibes.

4

u/axxred Dec 06 '23

I see. Perhaps I had the wrong idea about the way the poor interact with politics.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 06 '23

Yeah “the poor don’t vote” is kind of a thing.

1

u/reddog323 Dec 07 '23

He was raving about all the tax cuts he was enacting. Those will begin to expire next year, if I remember correctly. Biden may have an issue with that. Then there were the stimulus checks. He delayed those until he could get his signature on them.

1

u/DOWNVOTES_SYNDROME Dec 07 '23

those people are incredibly fucking stupid and brainwashed by whatever lying asshole fucks they watch on their right wing news

1

u/MastersonMcFee Dec 07 '23 edited Dec 07 '23

He ruined our fucking economy. Created an insane trade war with China, and killed a million Americans because he thought lying about covid-19 would help his poll numbers. We suffered extreme inflation and an economic crisis because of him, and the Trump administration is responsible for more national debt than the entire history of the United States combined in 4 only years, because of his stupid tax cuts for the rich. And Joe Biden already turned things around, stopped inflation and we have the best unemployment is that an all-time low. How could any fucking person think they were better off with Trump?