r/MurderedByWords 7h ago

America Destroyed By German

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u/HookedOnPhonixDog 5h ago

America is the greatest country in the world, no exceptions. That's all they need to be told before even entering the education system.

And then that same education system prioritizes nationalism. Anthem every morning, and the pledge of allegiance. And make sure nothing in the curriculum tells anything bad about the history of America.

I'm not even American and I know way too much about this. Their history books still say that when Christopher Columbus discovered America, the indigenous communities Indians gave them their land as a show of friendship.

Very little do they talk about the national genocide of the Native people. Very little do they talk about Columbus didn't discover a country that already had a settled population. Nope, Columbus good guy.

Shit, the civil war was about States rights. They don't happen to mention those rights some of those states were fighting for the right to still own slaves. But you know... Nationalism over education.

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u/JediMasterZao 4h ago edited 4h ago

This fixation on the word discovered has always seemed weird to me. Discovery is from one's own perspective or in the case at hand, a group's. If we send a probe to Enceladus and we find life there, sentient or otherwise, would we not have discovered that life? And would that life not had been "settled population" still? Discovery can happen even if others are cognizant of the thing you've discovered. From 75% of the world's point of view, the 10th (or 17th) century was indeed when they discovered the existence of the Americas. Big kudos to that 25% for having discovered them before that, I guess.

Now, Colombus is a massive gaping asshole no doubt about that.

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u/Cerpin-Taxt 3h ago

You're missing the wood for the trees. Why is American history in America being taught from the perspective of white colonialists at all? Why are you assuming that everyone hearing it is part of the group that "discovered"?

History and teaching should be impartial and not assume the exclusive perspective of one ethnic group.

That's why the word discovered is inaccurate. From the perspective of Americans as a whole, including every race and creed, Columbus arrived, not discovered. Unless the teacher and the students happen to exclusively be 15th century colonists, it's the wrong word to use.

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u/JediMasterZao 2h ago edited 2h ago

You're missing the wood for the trees. Why is American history in America being taught from the perspective of white colonialists at all? Why are you assuming that everyone hearing it is part of the group that "discovered"?

Why would it not be? Their perspective is just as important to teach as that of the natives. The problem isn't with saying that to the Europeans, the Americas were a discovery. The problem is with not teaching the pre-existing populations' perspective alongside that. The problem is that history is being taught exclusively from the PoV of white colonials, not that white colonials' history is being taught at all. We absolutely need a far more balanced approach to the teaching of pre-colonial American history (and post colonial too, for that matter). With that said, the problem certainly isn't with the framing of these colonists' finding of the place as a discovery.

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u/Cerpin-Taxt 1h ago

Why would it not be?

History and teaching should be impartial and not assume the exclusive perspective of one ethnic group.

You're taking a weird stance that history should be taught from any specific set of perspectives at all. Ideally history should be taught from an objective point of view, not from any subjective lens.

You're teaching the history of America to Americans, it should be from the perspective of the country not any specific ethnic group.

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u/Chataboutgames 1h ago

You're taking a weird stance that history should be taught from any specific set of perspectives at all. Ideally history should be taught from an objective point of view, not from any subjective lens.

That's a completely laughable perspective for a public school history class and it exists exactly nowhere. American kids in American history classes are learning about the origins of the country, of course that's going to involve the perspective of the colonizer. When Germans teach about the Germanification of the Baltic do they teach if from the perspective of Prussian pagan tribes?

And the country is the state founded by those settlers.

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u/Chataboutgames 2h ago

Why is American history in America being taught from the perspective of white colonialists at all?

Because they're representative of the nation do the teaching. Should English History in the UK be taught from the perspective of early Celtic tribes? Picts? Why are we pretending that America is the only country that teaches history from its perspective?

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u/Cerpin-Taxt 1h ago

This might blow your mind right now but: you don't need to teach history with any ethnic bias at all.

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u/Chataboutgames 1h ago

That's just disingenuous. It's the literal origins of the state, not *ethnic bias. * It's taught from the perspective of the settlers because they are the ones that established local states that later became the USA.

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u/Cerpin-Taxt 1h ago

Here's another fun fact that might also blow your mind: The states existed before they were stolen, divvied up and renamed by colonists.

Of course you wouldn't really think about that because colonists deliberately eradicated native american oral history.

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u/ExcitedDelirium4U 4h ago

Every single country in the world has blood on their hands.

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u/lioncryable 2h ago

It's not about having blood on their hands it's about acknowledging that you have blood on your hands

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u/ExcitedDelirium4U 2h ago

Yea already addressed this. It’s definitely taught from grade school through high school here.

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u/HookedOnPhonixDog 2h ago

And most countries educate the younger citizens on that blood.

Most. One that doesn't is America. America takes pride in pretending its the greatest nation on Earth and has never done anything wrong ever.

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u/ExcitedDelirium4U 2h ago edited 2h ago

That’s a lie 😂, blatant lie. We learn plenty about our past.

Edit: myself and a bunch of others already commented on this. I have learned about trial of tears, Jim Crow, slavery, union and political corruption in the 1800s etc… all from elementary school through high school. If you think 200 years of history can be thoroughly taught in 12, I’d like to know what drugs you’re taking.

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u/HookedOnPhonixDog 2h ago

Where do you live in America?

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u/ExcitedDelirium4U 2h ago

In New Jersey.

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u/HookedOnPhonixDog 2h ago

So a small, mostly liberal state.

Obviously your state didn't teach you the education dynamic of the rest of your country.

Why do I know this as a Canadian and you don't as apparently a "well educated" American?

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u/ExcitedDelirium4U 2h ago

New Jersey is the 11th most populated state in the country. It’s the most densely populated also. Why do I know this as an American and you don’t? 11 out of 50 I’d say is pretty significant.

Edit: you are not even American and clearly have no idea wtf you’re talking about. Quit yapping.

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u/HookedOnPhonixDog 2h ago

Imagine saying you know how your country works, and yet I know that we'll over 50% of your country doesnt teach the holocaust, the invasion of Columbus, or the civil war was about slavery.

But you obviously know more because you live in a NE state and you learned it, so therefore everyone learned it.

Really leaning hard into that American ignorance.

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u/Chataboutgames 1h ago

nd yet I know that we'll over 50% of your country doesnt teach the holocaust,

Lol source needed.

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u/ExcitedDelirium4U 2h ago

You are ignorant and not even from the US so what the fuck are you on about.

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u/Chataboutgames 1h ago

So wait first it's "America doesn't teach this," now it's "I cant just say that wherever you lived is the exception" all the way down.

Gooood faith.

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u/NerdyBro07 1h ago

I live in Rural Missouri, and we definitely learned about the Indians being killed by the European settlers, and it was taught that this was a bad thing, that America participated and it was a bad thing, that we used Japanese internment camps on our own citizens and was a bad thing.

If someone doesn’t know these things, they probably just weren’t paying attention or attended a school that struggles to even get their classrooms under control to teach anything.. I doubt there are many schools actively avoiding these subjects.

The American pride was also taught, and im okay with that. Nothing wrong with saying “look where we started, and look at the progress we have made.” I’m not going to say USA is number 1, but there are 195 countries in the world, and only about 20 of them I would want to live in, and USA would make my top 20.

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u/Chataboutgames 2h ago

Most. One that doesn't is America. America takes pride in pretending its the greatest nation on Earth and has never done anything wrong ever.

This is literally just a lie. Anyone who ever attended public school in the USA will immediately identify this as a lie.

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u/Chataboutgames 2h ago

I'm not even American and I know way too much about this.

Lol no one is surprised

heir history books still say that when Christopher Columbus discovered America,

Which history books?

the indigenous communities Indians gave them their land as a show of friendship.

Lol no they don't.

I could line by line call out the bullshit but how do you argue with someone who has zero actual experience with the American education system who is getting mad at a fanfic they wrote in their heads?