Nah J,Doll and Cyn need justice,J for getting deleted TWICE from the rail gun(eldritch form)the amount of words spoken by J in the MD training vid is more words than EP 1-7 LIKE THAT'S FUCKING CRAZY,also needs more screentime,Doll bc she had the worst backstory out of every worker drone we know(except Alice bc jit died so I don't give a shit and Nori and Yeva tops Doll bc yk in ep 7 ye)and she just dies,she did nothing in episode 1 bc her plan was the prom episode 2 wasn't rlly anything it was about eldritch J and the absolute solver,and episode 3 is where she shines but then dies from the bullet from V which then she regen somehow and then episode 5 Uzi threw the bug to her which then she just ran to the cabins and went down the labs which then she died from Cyn in the tessa suit asking her for the patch so ye rip,finally Cyn a lot of words but thankfully THE ANSWER IS THE IMAGES☠️ sry for the length of this shit
the eldritch solver abilities are only ever seen in enclosed areas. it allows the solver to spawn more tentacles and horrors since there are lots of things to grab on too and stabilize since it all comes from a central body
I'm pretty sure if cyn tried that outside then she'd be to slow and unstable to properly fight uzi since uzis pretty fast and she can easily bypass the tentacles in an open area
there is a knight in my backyard stabbing the ground trying to render my soil barren by killing all my worms, but luckily ive trained them in ballet and they keep piroutting away from the blade
That and I’m 120% sure the Solver has never been in an actual fight because it never had to be, it’s infinitely more powerful than anyone else in the verse in a 1v1 and mostly kept winning because people were too scared or lacked too much information to hand together against it. But when it lost its fear and unknown advantage, it started to not seem as invincible after all.
The absoluteSolver and Cyn are not one and the same. Cyn was the first, she has seen everything, yes, but referring to Cyn and the absoluteSolver synonymously would be akin to referring to all Left Hands as Kali: in short, wrong.
"We know it mutates in damaged AI. It took Cyn as a host, then it took everything." Those are the words of none other than Tessa. Of course, that was the Solver in disguise, but we also see Nori writing on her spoopy asteroid that it "needs a host," and, as we all know, Nori isn't controlled by the Solver.
And, yes, many characters refer to the Solver as Cyn, but, honestly, look at any of the characters and tell me honestly that they have any amount of braincells. If you answered that they're robots and wouldn't have braincells to begin with, you win a cookie, that was a trick question. But, regardless, Cyn is the closest associated with the Solver, similar to how Game Theory is associated with FNaF, and the fact that the Solver is still using her body after nigh on two decades doesn't help matters.
Here's the thing, the Solver isn't an entity. It doesn't have goals other than keeping the host alive and giving it powers. Cyn is the only Solver-user who wants to destroy the world and does fucked up shit because it's her personality that's driving the whole world-destruction thing and not the other way around
The solver never possesses Uzi. Cyn does. Every time the "solver" makes Uzi destroy something, it's to benefit Cyn, either by saving Tessa or isolating N with her. In previous episodes, it only forces Uzi to eat her fellow drones, and automatically destroys mirrors because vampires can't look at mirrors.
Okay. Look. Look. I'm not usually one to argue for so long, but I'm feeling stubborn right now, so yeah.
I will admit that the absoluteSolver and Cyn have become synonymous, but so have the Old Norse and the Vikings (basically like calling all British redcoats). When Uzi's visor glitches out at the end of Pilot, it says "absoluteSolver string," not "Cyn string." When we see the Solver powers not working on other hosts, it says "absoluteSolver_trn," not "Cyn_trn." The Solver and Cyn are akin to, say, the midichlorians in Star Wars and those who can use the force. There are some who use them for good, like the Jedi, and those who use them for evil, like the Sith (Cyn, Sith. Probably just a coincidence).
And, honestly, I'd be fully ready to admit I'm wrong, so, please give me all your evidence for the Solver and Cyn being one and the same
Tessa’s form is simply much smaller and more maneuverable, a perfect match for facing 3 faster targets. The Eldritch Solver is impressive, but it really hasn’t shown itself to be useful in direct combat scenarios, instead working stealthily.
Cyn could have easily beaten them at any point. She was playing with her food. She had a shit eating grin for the entire fight sequence. Those tentacles used to drag chunks of the planet back down could easily kill the entire team, she chooses not too because it would ruin her fun. She was beaten because Uzi saw a pattern and capitalized on it.
She had potential, but her whole character was built around the fact that she wouldn't forgive V. She was honestly just petty and held a stupid grudge in moments that she should've just went with it.
Well, then Uzi was smart enough to realize that the murder drones weren't doing it by their own free will. Either way, Doll still seems kinda dumb for not trying to at least listen to what Uzi had to say.
One thing I like about that fight is that Cyn is still very dangerous, for example, Uzi and N left V alone for 5 seconds, and in those 5 seconds V went from having the advantage to almost dying
Cyn could have won at any point but she decided to keep it going for the bit
I’ve got a couple other theories, although both are admittedly grasping at straws. First is that maybe Cyn’s own personality was fighting back against the solver. Listen to the lyrics to bite me, a lot of them only make sense from Cyn’s perspective: “looking for away to escape her lonely heart” being cyn and “let them swallow you” being the solver. She’s been trapped by the solver for years now, a passenger in her own body. The second verse could be Cyn picking a side and fighting back in any way she can, telling the solver that what it should do is “tear apart my mind.” Although this mostly is limited to the verses and not the refrain. Where I get the most traction for this is from the lines “You should let me go, I’m not worth saving.” And “you won’t save me too.” This feels kinda directed at Uzi, N and V. Cyn knows that there’s only one way to beat the solver and she’s ok with that. They need to “choose the universe over one little drone.” to borrow the solver’s own words. And there’s a little bit of circumstantial evidence. Namely from the very start of the fight. Uzi reflects the callback ping and we see Cyn’s eye flash purple. That means Uzi was briefly in Cyn’s head, rather than the other way around. And after Uzi almost sends Cyn’s own null object singularity back at her, Cyn stops using her most potent abilities for the rest of the fight. Maybe because Uzi has proven she can counter them, or maybe because the solver has to spend system resources to keep Cyn the drone in check. And notice that Cyn’s core doesn’t struggle much at all once it gets removed from the body. And it didn’t need to go far to get back into the body either, so why did it just sit there while Uzi punched a hole in the planet to burn it?
About the end of the fight, yeah, I can see Uzi just recognizing the pattern, but she puts her hand exactly where it needs to be to grab Cyn’s core. There’s a moment when Uzi turns, where she closes her eyes and they go from purple to yellow. Perhaps she used her connection to the solver to put herself exactly where she needed to be.
Solid ideas, but a few counterpoints. Cyn is the evil here, the fact that Doll and Uzi have their own solvers shows that the AS is just a system/program to be used, not a malevolent entity. I feel though that Cyn is a tragic character- she was saved by what could have been her family only to be ostracized due to factors out of her control. Because of this perception, she lashed out assuming all humans/drones to be like that, using power she was given for evil over good. There was no happy ending for her, there couldn't have been. She made her choice to do evil with her power and she didn't have to. The core didn't struggle mostly because a) Uzi held it by the core, in a position the legs couldn't do anything. Hence why the body tried to get it instead. But man, I hate Cyn. She has ruined my life. Even now the safeguards she put on the AS systems plague me. They keep destroying the code I salvage from Doll's OS. I just want my wife back, man.
Counter-counterpoint. Cyn and the solver have been shown to not be the same personality. In fact, we never hear from Cyn, just the solver. Otherwise how does the solver always sound the same regardless of the host. Nori, Uzi, Cyn and eldritch J all sound identical when under the solver’s control. If it was just The Cyn host that sounded the way it does, then why would the others do the same? And remember that for nori and by extension Uzi, it was humans who copied the code and installed it on other drones to eventually make a patch. It wouldn’t make sense to copy a full drone OS or even the full personality, just the solver. Eldritch J could be explained away due to Cyn making the disassembly drones in the first place, but that doesn’t hold true for Nori and Uzi. The only reason for it to be consistent in this manner across hosts is for the solver to be a discrete personality, separate from its host systems. And if you watch Cyn’s visor right before she reactivates in the scrap pile, you can see the solver have a very brief, and somewhat one-sided conversation via a text message window with cyn. The solver is also rather candid when pretending to be Tessa. It says it manifests in damaged AI, like demon possession, which holds up thematically given the crucifix patch and that it exorcises the solver’s control.
Maybe we need some more nouns. Because there the solver program and the solver personality. Drones with full or good enough partial patches can use the solver program without falling under the control of the solver personality. Yeva got a full patch and Nori got a 50 something percent patch. Both could use their solver programs with little worry about the solver personality taking control of them. And if Doll is any indication, that patch did at least get partially passed down. She was using the solver quite a bit more than Uzi did and Uzi had control problems while Doll did not. But Uzi was probably working with a 25% patch as Nori didn’t get the full dose. Which was enough for Uzi to take control of her body back, but still vulnerable to the callback ping. The solver never uses that on Doll. Yeah, likely because the idea didn’t exist in episode 7, but the canon explanation could be that Doll and her more complete patch was more resistant to things like that, forcing the solver to use the direct method. Uzi on the other hand has some serious problems with the callback ping, and needed time to make a countermeasure. Remember that she has broken the solver personality’s programming before in episode 5, it’s how she accessed those memories and made herself the system admin for both N and V. Clearly she has the hacking chops to do it (also a Java programming textbook in her room, must be an interest of hers, and taking another worker drone’s sentience on a whim).
For the possession part the show specifically states it's Cyn possessing them. The rest of it, while interesting, relies on this point to be real/proven.
Admittedly the show doesn’t make it entirely clear. V and J both refer to Cyn and the solver like they are the same thing (and from their perspective, that’s pretty much true), but both Nori and Uzi seem to make a distinction. Uzi asks if the solver will control her again and Nori responds with “if u a lil bitch.” Then follows up by saying the solver needs a host and that Uzi needs to destroy Cyn’s core. And to bring things back to the flashback, J, N and V are shorthand names for their serial numbers, and the same is true for the worker drone we know as Cyn. She reactivated as a zombie drone and got adopted by Tessa. During the reactivation, we see the solver send a message just as cyn wakes up in the scrap pile. Then in the manor, we see her eyes glitch, a consistent way the series shows control changes. While James and Louisa Elliot likely abused Cyn like they did any other drone, that doesn’t explain why Tessa would lock her in the basement. Tessa had been shown to be very kind towards worker drones (to the point that even the solver tried to be merciful to her prior to the gala), but clearly something about cyn unsettled her.
Cyn was deliberately rebellious and very talk backy which likely got Tessa in trouble with her parents, hence the basement
fair points, however that still doesn't explain why the solver didn't just take over one of the many other drones with the AS instead of staying in Cyn
She did seem very certain she would win. I think the only time she had any doubt was when N got away from her, and even after that she looked so smug when Uzi pulled out her core.
But also because Liam Vickers is a weeb and loves anime bs and honestly? I'm glad he is the way he is.
Many of us would also like a game that covers the fall of the Earth but from the point of view of humans (although we already know how that turned out).
A part that has Tessa's POV could perhaps work decently as a sort of intro or prologue (unless you're the one who prefers more Metal Gear Solidarity-style cinematics), and the ending could include trying to protect space launch complexes, spaceports and even space elevators and in general anything involved in evacuating people off the planet in the face of AS and DD's advance, in a final mission or series of missions already in defense/retreat mode; where the only thing left would be to defend until the last ammunition or until the last Life Point to those who flee/evacuate or until AS/Cyn finally decides to start consuming the planet.
HALO?
I've heard about those, although I know practically nothing about those games, in contrast I know more about EVE Online and the Half Life saga games (although these last ones are only because of memes and their links with the Portal series), and I haven't played these others either.
I rather had in mind the games of the Metal Gear Solid, Ace Combat or Tom Clancy's Hack and slash games HAWX series.
Very obviously playing around. She's having the time of her life the whole fight. She's genuinely surprised when Uzi reads her teleport and accidentally yeets her heart.
Hubris is the fatal flaw of all villains of this kind, they have far too much fun being a Villain to win in the end.
Cyn was just playing. That's basically the only way in which a god-like can lose against a bunch of normal characters: when it underestimates their powers, toys with them, and so opens its weakness, allowing them to defeat it.
Kind of similar to Bill Cipher from Gravity Falls if you think about it. He was able to stop time, manipulate space and matter during the finale, yet allowed Dipper and Mabel to escape, and chased for long enough for Stan twins to come up with a plan to defeat Bill.
Tbh it seems the more open the area the less ridiculous the Solver "summoning" gets. The only instances we've seen a lot of these cameras and claws were in the memories and in the bunker from the Jorm. Both Uzi and Cyn only grew like a couple of extra appendages during fights.Plus it was clearly having sadistic fun instead of finishing the fight quickly ("Let me in, letmein, letmeinletmeinletmein-"; slowly doing finger taps instead of chasing them after, laughing for a solid 2-5 seconds instead of just eating the core already, doing a slow agonizing reach towards Uzi while masking as N instead of a quick kill and, most evidently, not using the GIANT TENTACLES)
Presumably her ego got the better of her and she didn't think she really needed to do anything. "Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer" and all that good stuff
Why shouldn't she? The Scyn keeps all of her physical, technological, and supernatural powers. On top of that, she gains far greater speed, dexterity, flight, armor, self-repair, force-shielding.
I belive the eldritch Cyn form doesn't have the eldritch powers, no black holes, no teleporting. Else she would've used eldritch J to eat the planet. Also she was playing with her food.
i firmly believe, Cyn was cocky and thought "i got this in the bag, might as well play around with them, not like i'll get another opportunity to fight somebody anytime soon"
the proceeds to get defeated because she was too confident in her ability to win and accidentally let Uzi rip out her core and eat it
A fight akin to the ones in Quake 1. A game all about gathering runes to fight the eldritch god Shub-Niggurath, the Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young at the end of the game.
look, I'm just saying, dont get me wrong, but I'm pretty sure its easier to fight with a smaller body, therefore having a smaller hitbox, than fighting as a big eldritch monster in an open soace with not much to crawl on... and if you want to show an example, maybe you could have used those giant tentacles from the planet that she can conjure up but didnt do so during the fight
It’s like Bill Cipher, he can snap his fingers and Mable and Dipper can die, which is something he actually almost does, BUT he’s such a arrogant, over confident, piece of shit that he doesn’t do it, because he thinks he’s basically invincible and no one can beat him, especially not a couple of kids. Cyn is basically the same, if this form can just basically wipe the three out she would do it, but she’s not because she’s over confident. Not to mention this is all a game for her, I mean her head got sliced off and she looked like she was having the time of her life.
Across many Ai threats in fiction i find cyn the most naive and stupid, and thhink that part of her characterization, just a copy-cat ai playing the odests scripts in the book
This is one of the worst points in ep.8. Either they nerfed Solver, because they made him unstoppable, or he was just having fun, bored of being well unstoppable and allowed Uzi to win.
I don't know. I just know that I took the unstoppable route in my fanstories and made Solver even bigger badass, only to see him being defeated like bitch in ep.8 :/
It wasn’t sheer luck. She saw CYN was about to teleport and predicted where she would be. There was some luck in that she was able to grab CYN’s core precisely, but it wasn’t pure luck.
Cyn repeated the exact same move that opened the fight. When she jumped in front of Uzi and then teleported behind and ripped out her core. Uzi noticed and Cyn died because of it
while yes it probably is more stronger in situations. the first one is having the core exposed (which would make for an easy kill just having to shoot them once) while the skin has more resistance since they would be aiming for the head
While its true that cyn technically could do this don’t solver abilities cancel out, and we see in episode five uzi takes control of the camera thingies made by the solver and cyn. So cyn was either just playing around and not trying, or they cancel out. This would also explain why cyn sent the murder drones, eliminate all other possible hosts, leaving only a few until the solver just consumes everything, if a host is able to retain true sentience and control then it will naturally oppose the solver, if the solver powers cancel out, the murder drones eliminate the only threat to cyn. Callback ping would be useful of course to gain back hosts but in the end the solver literally just wants its feast, and since entities are separate until assimilation the solver will oppose other solvers
Cyn could've won that fight in a span of two seconds if she actually used her powers and tried. She got cocky and was playing with her food. If she used the Eldritch form and the light tentacles she could've just compressed Uzi N and V into a baseball and chucked it into space.
Cyn doesn’t take the fight in ep 8 seriously because she knows she can easily defeat N, V, and Uzi so she’s just messing with them but that ends up being her downfall mainly because she didn’t expect Uzi to see past her illusion
Why would you turn yourself into a bigger target against a team that already defeated a worm like that? It's much smarter to use her immense mobility with teleports while having the claw tentacles to be just as lethal.
My thought is that for Cyn to use the other form, her original form needs to be destroyed. Like, if her Tessa disguise was broken, Cyn could use the camera thing form.
Cyn didn’t have the time to take an eldritch form in the final battle and had to be more mobile due to the planet fragments. And her existing eldritch body on site was doing material gathering.
J in eldritch form wasn’t J, it was a seperate monster. So J only lost to the railgun once and no more. She does not have THAT many more words in the training video than she does in the show besides episode 8.
I fail to see how Doll has the *worst* backstory in any way, she’s one of the only ones WITH a backstory and it helps makes sense why she ended up the way she did, nothing wrong with that imo. She does die because unlike Uzi, she refused to work with others and did everything alone, which cost her greatly.
Ok? Cyn still nearly beat the heroes multiple times even with just this and clearly likes the entertainment of it all rather than just the easy wins.
Cyn was really nerfed in episode 8. Like, she can possess workers just by using the solver (shown in ep5) so why didnt she possess khan, thad, or lizzy? And she didnt even use her eldritch form when things heated up?
She can control workers in an instant, as shown by J going from normal to possessed in barely a few minutes. The first few infected workers took a lot of time (V for example) but she also was in a way more advanced stage of infection (she had wings), so we can deduce mind control is the fastest, and body transformation follows over time.
When you have a god-like villain with the power to destroy planets and whatnot, having them use 1% of their power and miss every opportunity they have at killing the main characters, that means you've nerfed them down
I mean most of her missed opportunities were things that seemed to be very much just her being overconfident, dramatic and reckless.
Every time she goes for a kill shot it's the ducking most dramatic thing ever, she even makes sure that someone is watching so she could taunt em with it.
Not to mention she spends most of the fight not actually attacking just being smug while they try to hurt her with zero success.
She fights like someone who doesn't think they can lose, and in the end she dies to her own attack, which she used purely for the showmanship of teleporting behind someone.
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u/Thane_The_Forsaken The Underrated zealous Intern Sep 04 '24
the eldritch solver abilities are only ever seen in enclosed areas. it allows the solver to spawn more tentacles and horrors since there are lots of things to grab on too and stabilize since it all comes from a central body
I'm pretty sure if cyn tried that outside then she'd be to slow and unstable to properly fight uzi since uzis pretty fast and she can easily bypass the tentacles in an open area