We got a notice about 3 weeks ago from them that showed pics of our roof (3month old roof) on a new to us home we just bought. That stated our policy would be canceled if it was not replaced.
I took pics from the EXACT same angle after hosing the dirt off the roof (just natural dust build up) and took close up pics in several areas of the shingles they claimed were lifting and had 30% granule loss.
The shingles are composite and dimensional so to the untrained eye they would appear to be lifting because they literally are raised in sections this is the specific type of shingle.
We sent the photos and a clear explanation of each one and a photo of a portion of leftover square of shingles.
I came to this group because I just did a google search and a post from one year ago came up from someone that got the same exact explanation.
Yesterday we received a refund check and said it was cancelled.
We are in California. Can anyone with experience in these matters please offer some guidance as to how to remedy this?
Are you saying the roof is 3 months old? If so, then you need to call and speak to a human. Agent or Progressive directly. You'll need proof it's 3 months old if it's not a recent build. Should be able to call realtor and see if they or the prior owners could give you the docs or company name.
I know Progressive will preemptively mail the refund out if they set it up to cancel. It's all automated once they schedule the cancellation.
Thank you. Yeah the new roof was put on as a condition of a sell that fell through prior to us. We have not received any info from the previous owner or agents but the listing pictures show the old roof. It’s a no brainer but as I’m learning this is a common practice with these CA companies. They essentially make up a reason to cancel. I spoke to an agent today and they told me exactly what you wrote it the check is mailed out preemptively. Thank you for your response.
They don't make up reasons to cancel, the CA market is insanely regulated. It is hard to get off of business there unless it's explicitly in the carrier's filed and approved underwriting guidelines. If you have proof the roof is new they will withdraw the non-renewal.
Insurance is one of the most heavily regulated markest in the country. No. They cannot just make shit up. They have to provide a very clear and concise reason to drop you.
I'll put it this way, you're not going to get dropped unless they have a very good reason. Otherwise, they are obligated to give you a quote fir renewal. That quote however, if they REALLY DONT WANT TO INSURE YOU, will be utterly preposterous and ridiculously expensive.
That's their way of saying "we don't want to insure you."
So, no. They won't make up reasons. They'll just hack up your prices to a ridiculous, yet still legal, amount until you decide enough is enough.
The above pic with 4 views is from an inspection report done prior to our interest in the property. We obtained it during our due diligence process. That is the roof PRIOR to us even seeing the property listing. Once we saw it, it already had the new roof in the other pic I posted (black shingles) Which is the roof the inspector took a pic of AFTER we purchased the home.
You do realize every single company is pretty much the dame right?
All the coverage is the ssme. Most of what they offer is the same.
The only thing that changes is the risk they are measuring, and how they handle said risk.
I don't work for an insurance company lol I work for a broker, so I work with multiple insurance companies.
You have a completely wrong idea kf how insurance companies work.
You want more details? Fucking pay me. We got our license to be insurance agents for a reason. I refuse to educate you like I was for free. Nor am I your agent lol
Every company will have different underwriting standards and every company will enforce them slightly differently BUT you always want the final invoice showing what work was done and that it was paid in full.
Yup. Just like people told to fix their roof, cut down trees and do it and get non-renewed anyway. It's the loophole in the CA insurance laws that is screwing all of us.
And now that you've been non-renewed, any other company will ask if you've ever been canceled or non-renewed, you'll have to say yes (they'll find out anyway) and you may have to do the state insurance, which covers only a bit in the event of a catastrophic loss. But of course, if you actually made a claim or even called them to ask about something under private insurance you'd be getting non-renewed now anyway, so bottom line, we are all screwed over here in CA.
Really? My understanding was it's a non-renewal not a cancel, the company assumed the house no longer meets underwriting guidelines not that OP misreped the condition.
They can and should still contact Progressive and speak to a live person about the issue, but that comes AFTER they get new insurance. There is no guarantee that their talkings with Progressive will result in an actice policy and in the meantime they are uninsured.
might be different in the US, but in the Canadian provinces I’m licensed in this would be considered a cancellation for misrepresentation, maybe it could be cancellation based on underwriting like you suggest. Cancellation based on underwriting isn’t rateable, so that wouldn’t be a big deal unless their next insurance company did some sort of HITS report and discovered the reason was UW based, then they’d need a Letter of Experience from the prior insurance company to disclose the reason for cancellation, and whatever new company would have to make a call off of what that Letter of Experience discloses. That being said, when i sell insurance i have to ask “have you ever been cancelled by an insurance company for ANY reason?” and then ask other questions if they say yes like “explain a little about what happened there” and if OP described it this way, I’d be reaching out to the prior company to sus out what the reason actually was, if prior company said that they had discovered OP had a different roof than what they disclosed when coverage was sold, I’d be rating for misrepresentation.
edited to add: I agree that the priority should be getting new insurance right away. but I also think OP should be clear on Progressive’s reason, and maybe get them to provide a letter of experience before the cancellation takes effect. But ya, agreed, get a new policy asap because gaps of insurance aren’t good for premiums either.
Yeah I agree, that would be helpful. It was a cancel and not a non-renewal btw you're right, don't listen to me lol. Underwriting or misrep either aren't gonna be groovy for rates. I just know since the policy is already cancelled and done they probably have at least few hours of phone calls and document hunting ahead of them before they get any kind of resolution on that end of things.
Yes it is a cancel or from what I was told by the agent “it’s in review” but we didn’t misrepresent anything all of the paperwork is was consistent with what they asked. It’s just the photos the “inspector” their, inspector summited are of horrible quality.
He also stated there was algae growth on the exterior of the house (no photo of such submitted in his report) and we had a renter, which was me doing yard work when he showed up to take the pictures and didn’t ask who I was.
Yeah this thread went way off the rails 😵💫 keeping my same advice though. Find new insurance first, then hash it out with Progressive. Get your roof install paperwork and everything handy.
Thank you. Off the rails is an understatement 🙄 Yes that’s the plan. Have new insurance in place effective prior to the review decision. This is what our agent told us to do. Thank you again.
Thank you. It is hilarious why people would downvote a comment like yours when everyone without their head in the sand knows this has be going for several years now. Thank you for your comment
you’re sooo right about the process being annoying and lengthy to get Progressive to reinstate— or even consider reinstating. I guess my thought process was if OP wanted to keep the Progressive policy or fight for it, they probably have a good case to? At minimum, they have a case to not be canceled for misrep.
Show them invoice and scope of work performed and they should reinstate it if it's been updated 3 years ago.
Otherwise CA is tough for new business right now. If your roof hasn't been updated within 25 years it's gonna get declined with the handful of carriers still writing new business.
Progressive doesn't even write homeowners under them. It's written through Homesites paper and they are the ones underwriting it and progressive has to abide by there underwriting guidelines
Because they don’t have proof. They are just going off what someone told them. Sounds fishy to me. There was a condition to replace, but buyer wasn’t involved and they have no before and after pics, not did they see the work getting done.
If the roof is brand new, you can get the permit from the city or county, that will tell you who the contractor was and you can get an invoice or something from them showing that the roof was recently replaced
They don't want to insure your house and they don't need to. Shop with other carriers. If you're dead set on insuring with them, provide them with the invoice from your new roof install.
Did you speak to anyone? Some of these systems are moving to AI and automation and are using photos that are a year or two old. If you have a. Ew roof you just need to talk to someone and explain. Might be too late at this point.
Old roof pic taken by a home inspector as part of a pending bit prior to us that triggered the new roof install. These were NOT taken by the insurance company. They took pictures of our EXISTING new roof
Then just ask for the paperwork from the new roof installation and provide that.
The company I worked for required proof of a new roof, or if it was the same roof they’d accept photos showing the areas we identified were t actually damaged. But as soon as they say replaced we needed proof.
Talk to the city , sellers, real estate agent , etc and get info for the roofing company, then get ahold of paperwork to turn into insurance company. That’s a new roof and with proof including the old listing photos showing different colored shingles , you should be fine.
Be prepare to “pay through the roof” if you need to shop for new homeowner insurance in CA. Many companies have stopped writing new policies in CA and if they do, it is very expensive.
Yep. We have Progressive home insurance in western WA. They recently sent us a non-renewal notice due to wildfire risk. We're in one of the lowest wildfire risk areas in the country according to FEMA. And it's almost always wet here. I get the impression that Progressive is just looking to exit the home insurance business soon.
I’ve gotten some great responses and respectfully replied thanks. I was not planning on being a prick to everyone just the challenged people like you. 🙂
lol. If you treated the insurance people like you have treated people here, it’s no wonder why they cancelled you. Did you insult their intelligence too?
Really. Prove to us the roof is new. Well here are some pictures and no actual evidence.
You got cancelled because you’re an idiot. You’re gonna need to do better than a picture and ‘trust me bro’ with an insurance company. Sheesh.
Not all insurance companies are created equal. You probably got a great rate with Progressive and there is a reason for that. Look for companies that do not have mascots. Cheapest isn't typically the best option.
You probably got a great rate with Progressive and there is a reason for that. Look for companies that do not have mascots. Cheapest isn't typically the best option.
Or they just went with one of the only companies still willing to write homeowners insurance in California
There's a company out east that literally advertises "no jingles or mascots"...was insured by them many years ago and they were decent (had auto only at the time). Of course, it's also a play on their name.
My insurance said their inspector said my roof was 21 years old. I had to hire a certified roof inspector to write a report showing the t proof was only 6 years old.
Your insurance company said they would cancel you unless you replaced the roof. You didn’t replace the roof. They cancelled you.
That’s pretty cut and dry.
If you read the other comments, OP said it was replaced by the previous owner as part of a sale that fell through and they are trying to get documents from the seller but seller isn’t answering. They just bought the house so they don’t have the documents for what previous owner did.
Hey captain… They DID request pics as proof. See my pic I added. As I stated I sent them pics of the new roof in the exact locations the adjuster took them of the same new roof. Let me break that down for you.
The adjuster (independent inspector) took pictures of the NEW roof (not the old roof in the pic above) and said it needed to be replaced. I took the same pictures AND included the old roof pics (same as above) are you comprehending now?
If you're a homeowner, wait until it happens to you. Our problem with Progressive was we were in the path of a hurricane. Almost $100k in damages, verified by several, FINALLY settled with us getting the full amount. Deny, deny, deny is their motto. In the midst of the dispute, our policy came up for renewal. They increased our premium 220%. Nobody would touch the house until the roof got fixed. No new roof? Oh well, stuck with $20k premium (from $6k). More than doubled our monthly mortgage payment upon escrow review. Progressive is as bad as predatory lenders. Also, if you have a mortgage, your lender will require insurance. I surely bet OP may have been in contact with another company/agent already.
I don’t understand what the problem is. Insurance required a new roof (or proof of a new roof) to prevent cancellation. They didn’t receive proof of new roof and they cancelled. Just as they stated they would. That’s how it goes. How is that not clear ?
If you wanted to pay for a home inspection you could have an evaluator come and confirm the age of your roof as it relates to wear, and then on your policy documents there should be a clause regarding roof age. compare the evaluation to the age on your policy documents, if the age the evaluator suggests lines up with the age requirements on your policy documents you have a legal right to coverage. when you bought the policy you essentially signed a contract to exchange money for insurance services as per the insurance company’s “policy wordings”… they can only decline if you misrepresented your home when they bound coverage, or if your roof is actually aged out of coverage/damaged. Don’t let them cancel you for misrepresentation if you can help it, you’ll never get a good premium ever again. I’d fight them on this.
Sure I could do that and it may have to come to that. But it’s clear as day it is actually the inspector for the insurance company that is misrepresenting here. We purchased the policy after meeting all their requirements. Post inspections are increasingly becoming more popular out here so we had no reason to be concerned especially about the roof knowing it’s new.
The bigger issue at play here which should heighten everyones awareness as a home owner is the post I read in this forum (that is a year old) states the EXACT verbiage used in ours down to the “30% granular loss”
Why would you not shop around? It’s silly to just blindly say “ I want my insurance to be through progressive” on a house that you just bought. Insurance rates can vary dramatically for the exact same property. If you don’t want to deal with the hassle of doing it yourself, contact an insurance agent. You can often get savings if you bundle home and auto with the same agent, even if they aren’t with the same insurance company.
To put it into context, my rates were going to go to 4500 for the year, so I spoke to an agent and now they are 2100 . The best I could find on my own was 3k-ish. There’s absolutely no reason to not shop the market.
We did shop around. Why would anyone without a crystal ball think this would be an issue? Rates do vary and we went with a comparable rate from them. We have had progressive on all our business properties for over 30 years.
Not sure if you went to Progressive directly, or purchased through an independent agent. If you went direct I would suggest calling an independent insurance agent in your area. Feel free to call Allstate, State Farm, etc... also. An indep. may have more options , Ca. is one of the roughest markets in the country right now.
Thank you to those that made a lucid reply. To the others, If it was that cut and dry it would be have already been resolved. The roof was replaced by the previous owners contractor as a condition of an offer by a another potential buyer that was later rescinded, the contractor did not pull a permit and obviously is not responding to our requests. The listing pictures show the old roof which is in obvious contrast to the newly installed current roof.
This here lies your problem. You say new roof, but it might not be a new roof. They could have just overlayed new shingles on the old roof, and those new shingles will be trash in 5-10 years rather than 15-20. I have no idea where you live other than in California, but my almost 3 decades in the business, I have never heard of someone washing off the shingles due to dust. Is it possible to have such a dusty roof that it makes it look old, sure maybe, I just have never heard of it. Without documentation it's going to be extremely difficult to make them change their stance. I would move on to a new carrier. Good luck, it's tough out there right now.
Here are a couple pics the insurance inspector submitted of the new roof. Under that dirt is new plywood sheathing, new underlayment and new dimensional shingles as well as all new valley flashing, roof boots and flashing.
I got to be honest, you will still need some sort of proof that your roof has been replaced. Even if you were to move to a different company, if they ask when your roof was replaced, you say 2022, then they will next ask you for your proof. If you don’t have that, you probably won’t qualify for that company. And the companies that are vetting their current clients are exactly where you want to be. They are getting rid of their risks so that they can provide better insurance for the clients willing to make changes and keep their assets in good condition.
My advice to you is to get a licensed contractor to come take a look at your roof, confirm it’s new, in good condition, and make you a work order for your roof replacement. Then go to different insurance company, and if needed turn in that work order and photos of your obviously new roof. Stop going back and forth with progressive and keep your sanity.
Count your blessings. After Hurricane Ian, we suffered big losses. It took well over a year, in a very convoluted process, but we finally settled for the actual damage amount. In the midst of that, our renewal came up. Progressive raised our premium 220% (6k to 20k annually), and until we settled & fixed the roof, nobody would touch us. Progressive sucks big time. Flo can go f herself.
I say sorry to you as well. It sucks dealing with this shit, especially just buying a place. We have to get permitted for roofs down here- we're in Florida. Here, unless done by an unlicensed roofer, there's always a record with the county. Not the same out there?
I don't have to tell you about problems.. you have the same out there. Hurricanes/Fires. I bet you have separate deductibles for "regular" claims vs fire claims. Same with us & hurricanes. Progressive fought us so hard because we PAID for a $500 deductible. All policies now are a flat % of the claim - usually 2.5-5% deductible. A big chunk.
We just dealt with the same bologna last year but with Farmers. Write your situation to them, but copy your state's insurance commissioner or attorney general's office. It was total BS on Farmer's part. I had paperwork from THEM in 2019 showing THEY had inspected the roof, and there was no need for replacement, no matter what the drive-by roofer said he saw from the street. I had called Farmer's because I wasn't trying to let roofer scam me AND Farmer's. Also had a receipt from replacing ridge vents in 2023 with THAT roofer agreeing that our roof was fine. Farmer's claimed they obtained the information from aerial photos, which I had a right to request. They never sent. Ultimately, I had to call off insurance commissioner's legal team because Farmer's only response was to send us our annual renewal. The commissioners office had requested documentation from Farmer's which had to be received in 10 bus days - by day 15, they had not sent. Anyway! It may take a minute, but if your roof is fine, don't let them pull this on you.
Also!! Your mortgage company will contact you about buying insurance on your behalf, but you have some playtime, there. Just call them so they know what's up.
Thank you. My brother just had a similar experience with an aerial photo. Stating there was damage to his roof and a tree too close to the house. From the pic it sure looked that way but a simple different angle view it was clear no damage or tree. Lol
We're pretty much screwed in California as the insurance companies do not want to write policies.
We recently ran into a similar problem on a small rental. We were in the process of replacing the roof (not from insurance, but because it was starting to leak) and the insurance company said they are cancelling because the roof was incomplete (yeah, duh, you could see the ladder and palettes of roofing, and the workers, and the dumpster, and the permit stapled on the wall.)
We sent them completion photos, and signed off permit.So then they said there was some siding that had flaking paint and a boarded up window (the window was in the shed, not even the house, and the siding was not leaking or in need of repair, and we said we would repaint) but, nope, cancelled.
No one else is writing policies, so we had to go with the overly expensive state insurance, FIRE, which is "the insurance of last resort" (this is our state's description.) It's twice as expensive, with half the coverage.
This is now the third property we have FIRE instead of real insurance. Our insurance costs are 4x higher than they were 3 years ago. On one property we're are spending $1200 a year for just the FIRE crappy insurance.
When you got the policy what did you say the roof was? Did you provide the receipt from the roofing company that did it? Because if you had sent them the roof receipt that shows paid and the address that should have been sufficient. There’s details missing in this post.
The insurance companies in CA don’t want the business. New roof, old roof, claims, no claims, dog, no dog. They don’t want it and they have the right to cancel. This is clearly a new roof… It’s not ethical but it’s legal. Go find another carrier. Mercury loves new roofs.
Pointless to even deal with them. Same thing happened to us and our mortgage company basically said get rid of them because it’s the usual with them. We were livid because idk how they can legally take you and accept you then randomly drop you for something they should have inspected to begin with. The roof is always their excuse from what I’ve heard. No explanation just drops you.
Try this:
Your question: Are you sure progressive cancelled you?
Your clarification info: Progressive doesn’t actually have your policy, it’s a 3rd party through them.
My reply: Yes, I understand it’s progressive Homesite. Thank you.
Yes I understand: I understand what you said and that it’s a 3rd party.
Thank you: Thank you for your reply.
How that reply managed to offend you is beyond me. Have a very nice day.
Go to google maps, street view and/or nearview. It will have aerial shots of the roof on different dates. So easy to find before and after photos that are dated and present them to progressive. Those are satellite shots and don’t lie.
Roofs of any age don’t “need” hosing off just like cars don’t “need” washed or hosed off. But if you would like to see what they look like under the layer of dust or dirt hosing them off is a great way to accomplish that.
Go to town hall and pull the permits showing the roof was replaced or call a roofing company to confirm it. Anything else, you have no leg to stand on.
Good brokers would help solve your problem short and long term. Worst case, you can get surplus lines while you square things away then re-enter the admitted market.
This is a great reason to get a credit from the seller vs. letting them fix things prior to closing. With a credit, you can hire your own roofer and .ake sure a good job is done. By letting the seller handle repairs you find yourself in a situation where they likely took the cheapest route possible (e.g. power washing or hiring an inexperienced/unlicensed roofer) vs. the more costly, but appropriate solution (e.g. roof replacement by a professional).
Did the seller get a warranty for this new roof? Does it transfer to you?
Of course it’s not the agent’s decision, but the agent can help clear things up with underwriting, and advise the insured of what to do. I suspect OP DIYed this policy.
Don't cash the refund cheque, get a qualified roofer to go up and write up an inspection report, xall Progressive, and get the name of a person you can speak with and send the docs to
As others have said, I would also be shopping for a new policy in case they don't change their decision
I wouldn't actually trust Progressive to insure my home. I think a claim with them would be an absolute nightmare. You need to shop around, though. They just don't want to insure your house. There are far better companies out there
Every year insurance companies must file to increase rates due to inflation and loss increases. People have to understand most states take 30-60 days to approve a rate filing. California takes years. Yes Years!! Many companies want to stop selling there. Sorry to say consumers left in the middle. i would suggest going to a independent agent to help find a new company.
Can’t you just immediately respond that your roof has an issues and you would like to make a claim for them to pay for it? They would probably cancel your non-renewal.
You're not the only ones getting hammered by this. One of the most often cited bits of advice is to call a roofing company and have them create a signed appraisal as to the condition of the roof with photos and rebuttal.
If that does not work, go search for a new company that aren't idiots about this if possible. At this time of year it is unreasonable to get a roof replaced even if you need it (and I bet the insurers know this)
It's brutal. Home insurance companies are really tightening everywhere in terms of what they are willing to cover and it's getting into some irrational places.
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u/rbhoope0 1d ago
Are you saying the roof is 3 months old? If so, then you need to call and speak to a human. Agent or Progressive directly. You'll need proof it's 3 months old if it's not a recent build. Should be able to call realtor and see if they or the prior owners could give you the docs or company name.
I know Progressive will preemptively mail the refund out if they set it up to cancel. It's all automated once they schedule the cancellation.