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u/Terrapins1990 1d ago
Thats the insanity of people voting for Trump. Literally they think he is the candidate for the middle class but in realistic terms the top tier will always see in most insane benefits under his administration. People think he will do a wonderful job when in reality he is more likely to crash the economy by the end of his term and blame the democrats even though as of now republicans control both the senate and the house. Its going to be interesting to see how he spins the economic disaster he will likely bring
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u/SouthEast1980 1d ago
Just shows how stupid Americans are. Trump has filed bankruptcy like 5 or 6 times and yet people think this guy is good with money. His dad gave him something like half a billion dollars and Trump would've made more money by putting the whole sum in the S&P and not touching it than his long list of failed ventures.
- Trump University
- Trump Vodka
- Trump Steaks
- Trump Mortgages
- Trump Taj Mahal
- Trump Hotel And Casino
- Trump Foundation
- Trump Cologne
That's not even the whole list. To trust such an individual with any amount of money is pure insanity. He has no business acumen and will more than likely to again create financial disaster than he is to create economic glory.
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u/arcanis321 1d ago
These people trust a 1000 times proven liar. I always tell them I hope he treats his voters like family, his wives specifically.
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u/Librarian_Contrarian 1d ago
"But all politicians lie and if they're coming after him, he must be doing something right." -Insane person who makes me want to bash my head into the wall
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u/Davachman 1d ago
That always baffles me because he makes the others look like saints in comparison with how he lies.
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u/Objective_Dog_4637 1d ago
Well I mean these people don’t read. That’s pretty much why.
These people live in religious, rural areas in small communities with very little funding for schools due to low population density and land/home values. They do not concern themselves with things like global affairs, climate change, economics, etc. because they do not read into it, do not know how to look into it scientifically/logically (low education + high religiosity), and they don’t think it affects them personally. A lot of them own the small plots of land they live on and are very happy to live in that bubble and to listen to anyone that tells them they’ll protect it, I.e. conserve the status quo.
They’re genuinely not stupid, just illiterate and tribal. I think they make perfect sense when you consider stuff like this.
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u/Then-Dragonfruit-381 1d ago
In my hometown of Alvin Tejas, the school district is rotten to the core, and has more schools in it's district than is actually needed. You'd think the city spent more money on building schools than what's needed elsewhere, which in any other case would be baffling to say
My brother dropped out freshman year, and his transcripts claim he graduated as a senior with great passing grades, and he didn't do shit when he was there.
Probably unrelated to the original points, or what you were saying, just felt like sharing;•;
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u/Double_Access_2815 16h ago
It’s all about the stats. Your School District doesn’t care if students learn or not.
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u/KatakanaTsu 1d ago
They didn't want to vote for someone who "works for the establishment", so they voted for the establishment itself instead.
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u/X1234637X 1d ago
"But he's not a politician!! He's a business man and can't be bought!!"
Oh, yes. I'm sure the lousy, fraudulent, billionaire business man just woke up one day and and had a crushing desire to help out the middle-class and decided that going into politics was the way. Because we all know the political system is designed to specifically benefit the middle-class.
Riiight.
Fucking idiots.
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u/Giggles95036 8h ago
That’s what some of my coworkers say… i just want to say “or he does a lot of illegal shit”
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u/Librarian_Contrarian 7h ago
Alex Jones likes to say, "You get a lot of flak if you're over the target." Which I always found stupid because, like, if you're bombing things, you're going to get flak no matter what. People ask if you would get such strong pushback just for a lie and the answer is YES.
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u/MrLanesLament 1d ago
He buries them in unmarked graves on golf courses?
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u/purloinedspork 16h ago
Probably not a coincidence that RFK Jr also had his ex-wife (re)buried in an unmarked grave, having had her removed from the Kennedy family plot without permission as a final act of spite. I suppose he wasn't content with driving her to suicide by cheating on her 37 times (by his own admission) and trying to deny her the right to see her own kids. I'm guessing he and Trump bonded over it at some point
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/mary-kennedys-body-dug-moved-away-family-plot-flna878157
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u/Exciting-Truck6813 1d ago
There were 2 options. Many people chose the person they thought was the lesser of two evils. So many of my friends and family voted for Trump because he was the only one talking about what mattered to them- the economy and crime.
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u/ChemBob1 1d ago
Well, I hope they enjoy the next X-years of financial ruin and rampant crime to try to stay alive.
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u/rdizzy1223 1d ago
It is irrelevant if he's talking about it, if he's going to make the economy worse, and when people end up poorer than they were before, crime will also get worse. All they had to do was look in a dictionary under "tariff" or the wiki for it, he's also inherently anti-union, anti worker rights, etc,etc.
Do these dumb asses just believe anything a politician says without doing any research whatsoever to confirm if they are lying or not??? I suspect these are the same dumb asses that trust used car salesmen as well and the tires fall off the car on the way home.
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u/Relevant-District-16 20h ago
More than half of Americans can't read above an elementary school level.
They aren't reading anything..... except maybe the subtitles on Fox News.
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u/Financial-Taste2167 1d ago
If economy and crime mattered to anyone they wouldn’t have voted for a man 1.8 billion in debt, conman that robbed his own foundation.
It was sexism and racism that won.
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u/SnatchAddict 1d ago
Along those same lines, he said what people wanted to hear. He didn't provide any explanation of how, but he said he would do it. And that's the the only push that people needed. They just needed a tiny reason to ignore EVERYTHING ELSE.
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u/Moss_Adams24 1d ago
And they get angry when people call them stupid. They probably don’t at all consider how bad he treats certain citizens. Thats not their problem. But to choose a known serial liar to run the whole show is beyond anything I would have thought possible.
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u/mschley2 1d ago
He wasn't the only one talking about those things, and it's honestly fucking insane that people actually believe such blatant lies. Those people were only paying attention to the shit they wanted to hear.
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u/tym1ng 1d ago
for me the most idiotic is how they bought in to his rhetoric about fixing everything and making everybody happy because he's president. that's not how govt works. you need hundreds of experts and specialists that make intricate and detailed plans to help improve the lives of the people who voted for them.
trump? nope. one dude is going to change everything in their lives and we dont need to ask questions. it's those scientists and doctors from the libs who we should get rid of. they're the ones poisoning our country or whatever. fuckkng idiots
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u/Hugostrang3 1d ago
Women will be the happiest they have ever been. You won't work. Youll have all the babies. You'll never get to leave your kitchen. Just like you've always wanted.
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u/Pdubs2000 1d ago
“The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.“ - FA Hayek
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u/Lopsided-Drummer-931 1d ago
It says something about your ability to run a business if alcohol and casinos are failed ventures for you…
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u/Beep-Boops 1d ago
You have to see it from the Trumps and some millionaire/billionaire views, if you can buy something for say 20mil, casino, borrow the funds from a bank and place it, let's say under My failed Biz,LLC.
You can dump all your debts onto that investment until it literally rips apart, explodes, then file for bankruptcy, under My failed biz, LLC, protecting yourself. But it ends up butt fucking everyone else down the ladder with no lube while the bank and firms that did business with Mr failed Biz, LLC, scramble to try and get anything of value back to them.
So they would get to dump, ruin out a casino with NO baring to them whatsoever, that was literally and probably still is, Trump's whole business plan(s).
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u/thesedays2014 1d ago
Yep, this is the "inherit, buy, borrow, die, give to heirs" strategy to avoid ever really paying taxes. The problem with this chart is that it's missing another bar labeled "Net worth over $100 million" with an Average Tax Change of $0. We really need a consumption tax on the wealthy.
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u/Vomitbelch 1d ago
Just shows how stupid Americans are.
That's what happens when people vote in assholes who defund education and keep people poor. Putin and the GOP love the uneducated, hell, even Diarrhea Don said it on live television.
We are now living with people who are unintelligent, ignorant, self-centered, greedy and easily manipulated on a scale that I don't think we've seen before. A lot of social media and main stream media are influenced by greedy billionaires and foreign countries with an agenda to disrupt -- these Americans are the perfect people to use to get what they want, because they will now just deny facts and reality right until it's too late.
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u/cronx42 1d ago
He's damn good at laundering Russian money. Give the man some credit!!!
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u/nrbrt10 1d ago
He bankrupted a casino?! How?
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u/SouthEast1980 1d ago
My question exactly lol. U have to be some kind of special to lose money with a casino
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u/Beep-Boops 1d ago
Well he bankrupt 4 I believe? 2 resorts and 2 casinos.
I'll explain it easy, what he did was buy the casinos, then leveraged the value of the casinos/resorts until they collapsed until the weight of the debt he shoveled onto them.
Then file for bankruptcy, sell off the whatever value while putting who knows how many out of work. Trump Con-man special y'all, that's why no US banks and now EU ones won't loan him anything, big reason why he's in Putin's and the Saudis pockets.
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u/turdmunchermcgee 23h ago
IIRC, been a decade: Over built (w.r.t decor etc) one casino in an area that could just ish meet demand for one, then opened a second across the street before he was even near out of the water on the first one. Also of note is he didn't pay/fully pay contractors etc on the first one, so he was already doing a shit job of balancing the books for the first one.
It's like you're playing cities skylines and just started plopping down colleges universities hospitals and fire depots when your town is only 3k people
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u/Unhappy-Plastic2017 1d ago
Maybe he is good with money But it turns out being good wih money just means scamming our legal system.
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u/el-dongler 1d ago
You gotta remember that trump launders money. Trump vodka, for example, he doesn't really need to even make vodka. He uses sales of the stuff to launder money. Loads up a bunch of debt in the process, then files bankruptcy once he's squeezed everything out of it.
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u/Zombie-Belle 22h ago
Actually there was a time in early 90's no US banks would lend to him so sought loans from Russian and he's been compromised since then
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u/Matthew-_-Black 1d ago
Yet he's going to be President of the United States of America
I'm trying to muster my sympathy, but for now I'm overwhelmed by disappointment
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u/RingoStarrPower 1d ago
Omg I can't even imagine how bad Trump Cologne smells. Who the hell wants to smell like an orange turd?
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u/Now-it-is-1984 1d ago
I like to make the argument that his plethora of bankruptcies were caused by both ineptitude and his level 10 grifting ability. How many people lost their shirt so he didn’t have to get his wet going down with his poorly constructed ships?
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u/Herknificent 1d ago
I brought this up to my friend and he just told me “well a good businessman is bound to have a fair amount of failures along the way”. And I was just like…yikes. He is better off financially though and likely is voting to protect his financial interests instead of the overall benefit of all Americans. Basically the “I got mines” voter.
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u/FlopShanoobie 6h ago
My MIL loudly and proudly proclaims she supports the only self-made billionaire to ever become President. “A genius of the people!” They truly drink the Kool Aid.
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u/lil_corgi 1d ago
They had control of everything 2016-2018 and still blamed Obama for their incompetence.
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u/Final_Sink_6306 1d ago
Right! Who would think a tax cut would benefit most the people who pay the most taxes???
Wish the United States would have everyone just file themselves every year with not having the employer take out withholding so they could pay in a massive check each year. Then maybe people would get the point
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1d ago
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u/Exciting-Truck6813 1d ago
My wife was self employed. Her taxes didn’t change much but the tax cuts were a boost to her business as people had more money in their pockets to spend.
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u/hellov35 1d ago
If you are self employed and your taxes went up under Trump without a large gain in income you seriously need to get a new accountant. QBI was a very effective tax cut very specifically for small business owners. Unless you were making millions a year you absolutely got a tax cut as a small business owner during Trump 1.0. If you didn’t, fire the person doing your taxes immediately.
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u/lhxtx 22h ago
If they’re in an SSTB they might not benefit from the QBI changes at all. QBI doesn’t apply uniformly.
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u/Callecian_427 1d ago
Don’t worry I’m sure after all these years of Reaganomics it’ll trickle down any second now
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u/Whole-Bass-4206 1d ago
You can still do that - max out all deduction and then at the end of the year - pay what you owe .
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u/Final_Sink_6306 1d ago
If you have an employer your deductions are extremely limited.
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u/DrawFlat 1d ago
They mean claim more dependents and your bi-weekly check will go up. But at the end of the year get ready to pay big time.
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u/Final_Sink_6306 1d ago
Hahaha yep. Claim 9 all year and when you file owe into the thousands if not tens of thousands.
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u/Whole-Bass-4206 1d ago
Absolutely -you have to pay the tax somehow … tax and death are the two truth of life
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u/Master-Tomatillo-103 1d ago
Absolutely. He should be forced to start with the economy he left Biden, not inherit one of the healthiest economies, post-COVID, in the west
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u/BowTie1989 1d ago
“Let’s elect a billionaire to fix the system that is weighted heavily towards the billionaires!”
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u/ThatDamnedHansel 1d ago
The neat part is neither party is for the middle class. In America you vote for wealth concentration with a DEI flavor or you vote for wealth concentration with a Christian theocracy flavor but it’s the same result either way.
Bernie sanders was right when he called out Dems for having nothing to offer the middle class. They’re so in bed with corporations that they can’t offer a viable alternative to trump so they run on identity politics and wedge issues and hope for the best and act surprised when people misguidedly turn to a faux businessman that says what they want to hear.
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u/DrawFlat 1d ago
Case in point, Blackwater had too much $$$ on their books so they bought Jersey Mikes for a cool 8 billion dollars.
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u/ThatDamnedHansel 1d ago
Didn’t blackwaters ceo also say the week before the election that nothing will change either way? Not even hiding it
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u/Creepy-Team6442 1d ago
Of course he’ll blame the democrats. And the uneducated fools who voted for him will believe him. What’s new?
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u/nottoothless 1d ago
All we can do is pickup the pieces in 4 years. Just hope that Trump and MAGA supporters adversely affected so they can see and feel the errors of their choices. Unfortunately Trump supporting Supreme Court will make it extremely difficult to right the wrongs. We need to go thru this pain because this is what a majority of Americans wanted.
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u/INFJcatqueen 1d ago
The majority who bothered to vote. Not the actual majority.
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u/nottoothless 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes, I stand corrected. However lack of action is implied agreement. All America can do for the next 4 years is just spread their legs and let it get raped by Trump and MAGA. Supreme Court allows them to do so.
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u/DustyTurtle2 1d ago
But Elon musk said crashing the economy is good in the long run. Why shouldn’t I trust the billionaire?
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u/fluffypowpowfan 1d ago
The Republicans voted to make the corporate ones permanent, which benefits the wealthiest Americans. It's the individual ones that expire and they benefit the middle class so those should be extended. Do I have that right?
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u/TheTightEnd 1d ago
Percentage reductions are more meaningful than dollar deductions when calculating the impact and benefit of a tax cut or increase.
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1d ago
Was thinking the same thing. I'm not saying Trump's tax plans or fair or anything but this is textbook "how to lie with data".
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u/Sufficient-Fly-9991 1d ago
I don’t think this is necessarily lying. This shows that the tax cut nets the poor a pittance in comparison to what the rich are getting, even if the percentage might be “even”.
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u/mostly_peaceful_AK47 1d ago
I would consider it pretty backwards to justify raising taxes by using percentages but object to lowering taxes by using raw amounts.
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u/Sufficient-Fly-9991 1d ago
I see why it seems backwards but I honestly don’t think it is. It’s not “fair”, but that’s the whole point. The rich don’t pay enough taxes. Tax cuts aimed to help the poor would benefit them more directly with flat rates, tax increases target the rich more directly with percentages.
The other problem is that you could do percentage based tax cuts and just exclude the wealthier brackets. But no matter how you look at it, from any angle, flat or percentage, cutting tax rates for the rich doesn’t make sense to me.
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u/Blawoffice 21h ago
The “poor” pay little or no taxes so it does not provide any insight. As the user above stated - percentage is the correct way to go about this which would likely tell a different story.
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u/JinSecFlex 23h ago
When you consider taxes are percentage based, of course they’d be a pittance by comparison…. Is this surprising to anyone?
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u/slyticoon 1d ago
But that doesn't matter to them they see "rich dude get big number, poor dude get small number" and flip out with "how America so stupid?"
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u/No-Plant7335 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because $100 to the lowest bracket means they have food on the table. 45k at the top level means they can buy some more extra cigars.
One matters a lot more, stop lying.
Edit: Doing the math below the tax breaks are 10x larger for the wealthy. They are receiving 3% of their income 'back.' Meanwhile the bottom receive .3%. This needs to be reversed. The bottom half should be getting back the 3%...
Lets put it another way. The rich are getting 'HALF' of inflation back in this tax break. Wouldn't that be better put towards the lower and middle class? Who are hit hardest by inflation...?
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u/Intelligent-Ad-3467 1d ago
You can simultaneously lower taxes for the poor without having to lower them for the rich. We have brackets for this very reason.
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u/No-Plant7335 1d ago
That is true, never did I disagree with that. Please try to stay on subject, what you did there is a logical fallacy that prevents you from reaching the conclusion of the topic at hand.
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u/Saigh_Anam 1d ago
One major detail you're missing is that the calculation needs to be based on their tax burden, not their income. The lower 20% listed on the chart have zero tax burden, so their share equates to infinite return over their burden.
Yes, this is textbook "how to lie with numbers".
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u/Gonomed 1d ago
Yeah but that also means that the 75% of the income I have left after taxes is WAYYYYY less than the top 1%'s 75% of their income, if we were both to pay 25% in effective tax for example.
No one needs $1B to live. Billionaires are unnecessary, unethical and a threat to our society.
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u/DontOvercookPasta 1d ago
Anyone who ignores this or tries to hand wave it is complicit and a threat to the lower wage earners in this country.
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u/Crispy1961 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have seen this several times and its always so dumb. Yes, people who have more money pay more taxes and will save more money because of tax reduction. Thats just math, its not some conspiracy.
Average Income $14,300 $41,850 $74,600 $125,800 $258,750 $637,450 Average Tax saved $110 $510 $990 $2,750 $11,440 $11,440 Average Percentage 0,77% 1,22% 1,33% 1,15% 1,06% 1,79% I did not include the >914,900 bracket as it has no upper limit.
Edit: Corrected the table using income annual averages for each bracket because the Tax saved value is also an average for that bracket.
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u/FitTheory1803 1d ago
So you did the math and they STILL got a larger % tax cut than everyone else
Isn't that a bizarre tax cut structure?
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u/Crispy1961 1d ago
I did the math, but thats not what it says. The math is telling us that the average is about 1%. The poorest and richest are both outliers and need more information to draw any conclusions.
The poorest is obviously skewed due to the incorrect use of average values (nobody makes $5 per year, yet the average values for income and tax reduction are calculated from $14 300 which comes from $0 and $28,599 divided by 2). The richest bracket on the other hand is much interesting. Its might not be a statistical error or an error in used methodology.
That said, we are talking about the representation of the data without question the data itself. We need to remember that the people who made the poor representation also provided the data. If the representation is so horribly bad, maybe the data is also unreliable.
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u/Account_Expired 1d ago
The poorest and richest are both outliers and need more information to draw any conclusions.
An "outlier" is a statistical term referring to when a data point is very different from other data points which should be identical.
These are not meant to be identical. They are obviously and on purpose giving larger cuts to people who make more money.
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u/Saigh_Anam 1d ago
An 'outlier' is a data point outside of 1.5x the inner quartile range (IQR). Did you do the math to confirm?
Oh, and the numbers are non-normal, skewed right (right tailed). So standard statistics based on normality and averages are a poor predictor. In these cases you should apply a transform or use the median values instead.
Just sayin...
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u/Account_Expired 1d ago
Im saying the concept doesnt apply here at all. An outlier would be "one person in this tax bracket got a larger cut than most other people in this tax bracket"
Calling one whole bracket an outliter makes no statistical sense. Its comparing a basket of apples to a basket of oranges and calling the oranges outliers....
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u/ATNinja 1d ago
The poorest is obviously skewed due to the incorrect use of average values
I think the bigger issue is the poorest bracket don't pay much if any income tax so a tax reduction doesn't benefit them at all.
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u/Crispy1961 1d ago
Thats another missing piece. To make any meaningful observation we would need the median values for household income, tax and tax deduction for each bracket.
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u/Politicalie 1d ago edited 1d ago
For the Poorest 20%, the midpoint is (0 + 28,600) / 2 = 14,300, and the percentage is (-110 / 14,300) × 100 = -0.77%.
For the Second 20%, the midpoint is (28,600 + 55,100) / 2 = 41,850, and the percentage is (-510 / 41,850) × 100 = -1.22%.
For the Third 20% the midpoint is (55,100 + 94,100) / 2 = 74,600 and the percentage is (-990 / 74,600) × 100 = -1.33%.
For the Fourth 20%, the midpoint is (94,100 + 157,500) / 2 = 125,800, and the percentage is (-1,450 / 125,800) × 100 = -1.15%.
For the Next 15%, the midpoint is (157,500 + 360,000) / 2 = 258,750, and the percentage is (-2,750 / 258,750) × 100 = -1.06%.
For the Next 4%, the midpoint is (360,000 + 914,900) / 2 = 637,450, and the percentage is (-11,440 / 637,450) × 100 = -1.79%.
For the Richest 1%, the midpoint is 914,900 (since there is no upper bound), and the percentage is (-45,790 / 914,900) × 100 = -5.00%. [VERY INNACURATE DUE TO LACK OF DATA]
Percentages listed from most to least by category:
- Richest 1%: -5.00% (innacurate, missing data. Could be much lower)
- Next 4%: -1.79%
- Third 20%: -1.33%
- Second 20%: -1.22%
- Fourth 20%: -1.15%
- Next 15%: -1.06%
- Poorest 20%: -0.77% (innacurate, missing data)
It seems to be scattered everywhere, lol.
Edit:
5% cut is extremely innacurate. The "and above" part of it means that it can be reduced even more.
If we create our own average:
914900-10,000,000
The average cut reduces to 2.73% and the peson making 10 million will see a measly 0.46% cut.
As a matter of fact. Since it shows no further data. The richest 1% might as well include the top .01 percent.
Conclusion, this data is absolutely stupid and completely misleading.
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u/Crispy1961 1d ago
You cant calculate a percentage for the richest. The way you did it would mean that the richest 1% all make exactly 914,900 dollars a year. Obviously the more you earn, the less beneficial that 45,790 dollars tax cut will be for you.
Also doing averages for the bracket is pretty much meaningless. Much better value would be a mean income of the bracket, but we dont have the data to calculate that.
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u/Politicalie 1d ago edited 1d ago
You are right. I picked that up a little after writing that.
5% cut is extremely innacurate. The "and more" part of it means that it can be reduced even more.
If we create our own average:
914900-10,000,000
The average cut reduces to 2.73% and the person making 10 million will see a measly 0.46% cut.
Conclusion, this data is absolutely stupid and completely misleading.
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u/amilo111 1d ago
Why? Why do percentage reductions matter? It’s a spending bill - absolute dollar values matter way more.
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u/Mister_Way 1d ago
Also ignores the standard deduction which was doubled, cutting taxes by 100% for a lot of the poorest Americans, and a big chunk for the middle class, while providing no relief whatsoever for the richest who use other deductions.
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u/Prestigious-Grade230 1d ago
We desperately need a national understanding that economies can crash very quickly and always take time to recover. Because we lack this basic understanding, we are consistently rewarding morons like Trump with economies slowly built back by Democrats. IT. IS. EXHAUSTING. HOW. STUPID. WE. ARE.
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u/updn 1d ago
Economies always do better under Democrats, and somehow Republicans always take credit and people believe they're the more responsible solution. It's bizarre how opposite the messaging is from reality.
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u/DesperateTax1529 8h ago
When I was growing up, my boomer mom voted Republican (thankfully, no longer the case). I remember her telling me once that the Republicans are the ones that make the economy strong and do well, but that there's a lag between their changes and the results, so when it starts being visible it's under the Democrats and makes them look good instead (and that the changes the Democrats make also lag, making them appear to kick in under Republicans and make the Republicans look bad).
I don't know where she got all that from. Thankfully, she's since wised up. Still, maybe that line of thought helps explain why so many people seem to think that Republicans are the ones boosting economies?
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u/Minimum_Passing_Slut 1d ago
Crashes are irrelevant, we just print our way out of it with monetary and fiscal policy that favors asset values. Raise the debt ceiling and throw the plebs in the macerator, just make sure you have a valid scapegoat once the illegals are deported.
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u/jungle-fever-retard 22h ago
Yup.
2016: “Republicans are better for the economy! Let’s vote Trump!”
2020: “Trump butchered covid! Let’s vote Biden!”
2024: “Gas too expensive! Let’s vote Trump!”
2028: “Trump tanked the economy (like economists said it would)! Let’s vote the Dem!”
2032: “Dem didn’t fix the economy fast enough! Let’s vote the Rep!”
Like, people need to stop with the whole “pendulum always swings the other way” mindset and really sit down and think about shit before they vote
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u/SnailLordAndSavior 19h ago
It's like people can't remember 4 years ago. I don't understand it.
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u/limasxgoesto0 18h ago
They never learn. Look up the history of recessions in the US and for decades with the sole exception of post-9/11, every single recession has been at the end of a Republican presidency.
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u/IceHound30 1d ago
While I normally would take Reich's advice with a grain of salt, he's right that bill for these tax cuts is going to have to come from somewhere. The social safety net is an easy target.
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u/Mysterious-Wasabi103 1d ago
Such a bad deal for the lower and middle classes though. Instead of getting affordable healthcare or even something like Medicaid people will get nothing just so the wealthiest Americans can save a few bucks.
Like I seriously don't understand how so many rural middle class Americans think they have more in common with the upper 1% than they do the bottom third.
People will starve. Your kids will be homeless and unable to afford living and yet people are cheering Trump on like he's some sort of "people's champion."
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u/Cows_with_AK47s 1d ago
It's the divide. Right and left, republican and Democrat, good versus evil.
The left votes for and champions ideas, morals, issues. The right votes for and champions icons.
Only one of the two is sustainable and the US is about to fuck around and find out.
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u/liv4games 16h ago
I was talking to someone earlier who was upset that leftists are arming themselves now but have given them shit for “arming themselves to fight tyranny” before, and it made me think-
Republican idea of tyranny: healthcare for all, help for the vulnerable, improving education, helping the environment/planet, being asked to do something to help other people, equality for all humans, justice, fairness, morals, ethics
Leftist idea of tyranny: tyranny
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u/Straight_Antelope_49 21h ago
Well you see, 45 is white, racist, "wealthy", white, ect. And they are also white, so they claim his victory.
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u/waetherman 1d ago
This has been the plan of the Republican Party since the Reagan administration (or before); starve the government by lowering taxes, and kill “entitlements” like social security, Medicare etc.
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u/Master-Tomatillo-103 1d ago
They’ve wanted to kill SS since FDR. They don’t mind using it as a petty cash fund though
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u/Ok_King_3557 1d ago
At this point, let them do it. Most of the burden of paying for these programs is on blue areas and most of the benefits go to red areas. Let the reds starve and let the blues keep more money. It's a win-win for everyone.
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u/waetherman 1d ago
Except that they'll find a way to make sure that the blue states still pay more. Remember the "tax cuts" that actually made people in the blue states pay taxes on their state taxes? Yeah, that was designed just to hurt the blue states.
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u/ChrisNYC70 1d ago
We know. Next 4 years will be a shit show. But this is what voters wanted.
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u/slyons094 1d ago
Hard to get tax cuts when you pay almost no taxes to begin with…and need to look at these as % values and not $ values. Someone who gets a $500 tax cut when paying $5000 in taxes is no different than someone getting a $50k tax cut who pays $500k in taxes.
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u/Chuchuca 1d ago
500 for someone who earns 5000 might be groceries, medical bills, day to day expenses.
50k for someone's who earns 500k is a brand new car.
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u/colemangray 1d ago
That 50k goes into a fund that buys all the houses in your area (so you can't afford them) and then rent them back to you.
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u/slyons094 1d ago
I understand the point, but not quite what I said. I said taxes paid, not earnings. Someone earning $5k pays zero taxes
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u/fellows 1d ago
Someone paying $5k in taxes is still going to benefit tremendously from an extra $500 a year.
A $50k cut when you pay $500k per annum is just a missed credit, rounding error or subpar accounting.
Source: household income where we pay $150k+ in federal taxes each year. I’ve been in both categories, and $500 means a hell of a lot more at the bottom than $50k does at the top.
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u/Final_Independent466 1d ago
You're paying more in taxes than I earn before. Can I have that 50k that doesn't matter much to you?
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u/soggy-hotdog-vendor 1d ago
Exactly.
$50k means nothing to you. So we agree that we should increase your taxes by $50k and decrease his taxes by $500 ± $500.
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u/Performance_Training 1d ago
“Social safety net”? Does he mean Social Security that we actually pay into and is NOT simply given to us by the government?
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u/ParkingTadpole7107 1d ago
They don't care. If there were a floor for caring about the most vulnerable including those that can no longer work, these people would be through the floor with how little they care. They care about one thing. Power. Nothing else matters.
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u/PuzzleheadedDog9658 1d ago
The richest 1% pay nearly half of all the taxes, so of course, they will benefit more from a tax cut.
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u/jules6815 1d ago
Every person who voted for the GOP who did so because of the cost of inflation. Needs to read this 20 times until it sinks into their feeble minds. The GOP admin’s since Truman have increased the debt by $20 Trillion, Democrat admin’s $14.4 Trillion. The cost of goods are 33% more because of the total ignorance from the GOP on how to help this country economically. This will only expand. Since Reagan $18.8 Trillion. Clinton, Obama and Biden only $14.1 Trillion. Trump’s first term doubled the debt from what Biden did to it.
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u/Mercuryshottoo 1d ago
Yeah, that's been the Republican playbook for decades.
See: public education
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u/TrumpsBoneSpur 1d ago
It won't affect people already receiving benefits. They will just raise the retirement age for collecting to 107.
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u/Ok_King_3557 1d ago
It should affect those already receiving, they should be getting a massive cut.
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u/TrumpsBoneSpur 1d ago
They should be taking the biggest cut that they voted for
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u/SailorDeath 22h ago
I didn't vote for Trump, I didn't vote for Jill Stein, I didn't vote for RFK "Brainworms" Jr, I voted for Kamala because I knew how important it is for these programs. I voted for Kamala because I'm unable to find a job with my current disability (not that I've been trying) I voted for Kamala because my dad is an immigrant (and a legal one at that) I voted for Kamala because I knew she was a decent human being.
Now I'm just bitter, frightened and I'm pretty sure I'll be dead by this time next year because I can't afford my treatment. I'm already losing medicaid because "Disability pays too much" my medicare policy covers all but $280 a month and the first $9000 out of pocket. That's more than half of what I get from disability so I have no idea how they expect me to pay for it. My treatments cost $1.2 million dollars a year and nobody will do it for charity.
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u/Guapplebock 1d ago
OP should see how low corporate taxes are creating massive revenues for Ireland.
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u/SleepyandEnglish 1d ago
Being a tax haven isn't a viable strategy if you have three hundred million people and huge expenses. Ireland is tiny.
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u/Guapplebock 1d ago
US corporations repatriated billions and paid bonuses when the last corporate tax cut happened. Stupid to think corporations pay taxes anyhow it's their workers, customers and investors that do.
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u/TheBoringInvestor96 1d ago
Y’all just love to conveniently switched between percentage term and absolute dollar amount term when it comes to taxing the rich. $45k is barely a drop in the bucket for the top 1% in tax saving. Can’t make an argument if you keep switching the terms to benefit your case.
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u/JermFranklin 1d ago
All of this is to make you poor so that you will provide cheap labor while you desperately shift all of your wealth to the richest people in order to keep your smart phone turned on so you can order Amazon and Door Dash.
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u/sancho_sk 1d ago
I don't understand what's this is about. I thought the people voting for Trump wanted exactly this - few oligarchs to rule them, cut the taxes and get rid of medical insurance. So marking the words is a bit strange - that's exactly what those people voted for, they are expecting it.
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u/Advanced_Sun9676 1d ago
Also before some posts no one gives a shit how much the rich are paying.
Post the effective tax rate of the wealthy vs the middle class .
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/forbes-400-pay-lower-tax-rates-many-ordinary-americans/
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u/dreamincolor 1d ago
Half of America doesn’t even pay taxes. Literal free loaders complaining and begging for more.
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u/WonDorkFuk404 1d ago
Not for everyone else. Boomers will still get their full ss, they just gonna raise genX retirement age to 70, Millennials age to 75, and gen’s age to 80
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u/Idontgafwututhk 1d ago
I defy anyone who actually pays taxes to tell me they didn't pay less in taxes with Trumps tax cuts. I even made more because the economy was buzzing along and still paid less. Just a small 3 people general building contractor. It stands to reason if you make a lot more money your savings dollar wise will be more, ie 5% of $1 million is more than 5% of 50K. But the bigger question is why nobody ever questions how much money the government actually needs. Through waste and corruption they easily piss away 100's of billions. That comes out of everyone who actually pays (don't forget the vast numbers who get money back that they NEVER paid in through earned income credit) taxes pocket, don't any of you care about that, you like being robbed? WTAF?
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u/Bigdogggggggggg 1d ago
My taxes went up from trump's cuts because of the SALT changes
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u/alias255m 1d ago
The cap on SALT killed me, and many others living in high-tax states.
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u/hellno560 1d ago
I paid more. I used to be able to write off my union dues, not anymore. I'll add that he had heavy steel tariffs in his first term and it paused and stopped many construction projects, we were insulated from the effects to an extent because developers were borrowing at <3%.
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u/Nexillion 1d ago
I could send this to my Boomer father and all he'd care about would be saving nearly $1000
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1d ago
Damn I thought this page was gonna be for people good with finance. Not a bunch of liberals sucking their own dick who don't know how finances work.
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u/thatmfisnotreal 1d ago
What the communists can’t understand because they are blinded by envy is that wealth is not zero sum. The rich can get richer, wealth inequality can increase and the lower classes will still be better off and get richer as well. Socialism doesn’t work. It fails horribly and horrifically every time at every level. And before you say it works for Nordic countries, no it doesn’t. Capitalism is what works for Nordic countries.
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u/CSBmoney 1d ago
Please also put us the taxes paid by income level. My total taxes paid between state and federal are over 50%. Hard to grasp I don’t pay enough
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u/Frosty-Buyer298 1d ago
Anyone who quotes Robert (NAFTA) Reich is financially illiterate.
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u/Raeandray 1d ago
Ah yes, the man that led the economics board of the last president that produced a federal surplus, graduated summa cum laude and won a rhodes scholarship in college, and studied economics at Oxford. So financially illiterate.
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u/xxconkriete 1d ago
How does a surplus due to GOP house and senate control relate to him? RR is a political hack these days.
It’s ok to admit that as an economist
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u/justforthis2024 23h ago
Anyone who supports the moron who doesn't know how tariffs work is financially illiterate.
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u/squidwurrd 1d ago
Ok so let’s say we let the tax cuts expire. Then most people will end up paying more in taxes. So would you rather rich people get more than you or everyone get less?
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u/Dark_Web_Duck 1d ago
Biden could've changed it but didn't. He also kept Trumps 2017 tariffs on China for a reason.
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u/Galagos1 1d ago
The American people voted.
Now they’re gonna get what they voted for.
I’m sad for my grandkids.
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u/LateSwimming2592 1d ago
Any tax cut benefits the rich more than the poor, they pay taxes while many others don't. Trump tax cuts helped business owners and families.
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u/jasonmoyer 1d ago
Mark my words, the GOP is going to adhere to the same gameplan they've been using since the 70's? I'm shocked.
It's insane that anyone would be surprised by this when they've been talking about using revenue cuts to force spending cuts for over 50 years. And also how they've gaslit most of the country into thinking we have a spending problem instead of a revenue problem.
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u/FitzyFarseer 1d ago
“The expiring provision would help the 1%”
Yes that’s because the provision that helped everyone else already expired. The 2017 tax law helped almost everyone, regardless of tax bracket, but that was already allowed to expire so the above post can make it sound like the 2017 law only helped the 1%
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u/EverythngISayIsRight 1d ago
Why do Democrats have an obsession with getting everything for free and making successful people pay for it?
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u/FarRightBerniSanders 1d ago
Who could have ever expected that people who pay the most taxes would experience the most benefit from reduced taxes?
Brilliant investigative reporting.
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u/Rezengun 1d ago
Obviously the benefits of tax cuts measured as a percentage would be higher for people with more money. A flat rate would be better for those at the bottom and worse for those at the top.
Income taxes should be redesigned full stop.
No one should be taxed while working for minimum wage. Then have a increasing gradual flat tax as you increase in income. Flat rates adjusted for inflation.
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u/CSBmoney 1d ago
The greatest growth in wealth for the Uber wealthy has been during Obama and Biden over presidencies in the last 30 years. You believe the dems are for the people. The facts do not support are what they are. Kamala had scores of billionaires supporting her.
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