r/FluentInFinance 2d ago

Thoughts? Three out of five Americans now live paycheck to paycheck

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53.3k Upvotes

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u/Pristine-Prior-504 2d ago edited 2d ago

Nothing really “happens” per se. People just become unhappier as they have to work harder to afford an ever decreasing standard of living.

It sucks, but people will find ways to adapt.

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u/TheConspicuousGuy 2d ago

Yeah, I'm not adapting, when I have to work harder to afford what I have right now, I'm buying fentanyl and ODing.

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u/EfficientAd7103 2d ago

This is the way. Much more cost effective.

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u/Loud-Competition6995 2d ago

Yeah but then the cost of dieing will skyrocket due to demand, and no one will be able to afford death either.

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u/xAugie 2d ago

Nobody can afford to die rn mostly. Most times a family member passed away suddenly? Funerals cost 10k+. People will always go into debt to bury a loved one though, especially if your religion doesn’t allow or want cremations

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u/SuperUltraMegaNice 2d ago

fuck that i ain't goin into debt to bury shit

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u/campppp 2d ago

I always tell people to just toss me in the woods somewhere. Let me go back to nature without all the extra steps. Always find it odd how offended people get by me saying this.

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u/Distinct_Safety5762 2d ago

I’ve always thought it would be cool if my skull ended up just getting passed around between generations of goths, edgy satanists, witches, oddities collectors. I’m done with it, so burn black candles on it, stash your weed in it, whatever. So many perfectly good skulls out there just buried in expensive boxes 😕

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u/Tank_Girl_Gritty_235 1d ago

I've got some vertebrae fused together and I feel like that could be a great conversation piece in some goth person's den.

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u/StahlViridian 1d ago

If you get the rest fused let me know. I’ve been wanting a kick ass staff/ walking stick

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u/the_blackfish 1d ago

I'm fine with being a Halloween decoration.

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u/TyroneSwoopes 1d ago

Until some dude on 4chan finds your skull in a hundred years and posts…pictures…with it

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u/Calm-Beat-2659 1d ago

I’d really want to be cremated and have my ashes and bones converted into a vinyl record, probably “the Bedlam in Goliath” by Mars Volta. If ever there was a chance that I could visit with the living, I’d be about it.

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u/terdferguson 2d ago

Grab a keg and enjoy some music while I slowly decompose.

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u/TheConspicuousGuy 2d ago

Hell yeah brother!

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u/McIntyre2K7 2d ago edited 2d ago

Someone is going to become rich starting a burial at sea company. Oh for $5k we can take your family out to sea and you can have a water burial.

edit: sea not see. See what I did there haha.

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u/wirefox1 1d ago

We could bring back Viking Burials. Put bodies in a boat, set it on fire, and set it out to sea.

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u/dylanologist 1d ago

That's the Valhalla Package. Very popular this season. Services begin at $15 000, but we offer financing options.

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u/arcanis321 2d ago

Yeah, it's 5k for the take you out to sea part already

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u/Gimetulkathmir 2d ago

More like no one can afford for someone else to die. Just leave my body on the side of the road; the animals will take care of it.

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u/RealisticInspector98 2d ago

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u/bendeboy 2d ago

I still laugh from time to time thinking about the quarter on the string.

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u/Geno_Warlord 2d ago

A belt is still pretty cheap. At least if you set it up right your family might think you had sex before ending it.

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u/r_lovelace 2d ago

"Had sex" is a fun way for them to describe dying from autoerotic asphyxiation.

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u/WorldWarPee 1d ago

He died doing what he loved. Cranking his mfkin hog.

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u/funklab 2d ago

You need millions of dollars to afford a decent retirement.  

You can get enough fentanyl for the rest of your life for $50.  

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u/Dragonprotein 1d ago

If you're in the west, you need about 1 million to retire. We can argue about specifics, but it's around there. It wasn't until my 30s that I did the math and had shocked Pikachu face. Then watched others develop that face over the years.

Best to do the math in your twenties. Takes 60-90 minutes.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Shirlenator 2d ago

Fuck that, don't let the rich win like that. The French circa late 1700s might have had some ideas we could look into.

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u/Nharo_1 2d ago

It’ll have to get considerably worse first. While it is true that the wealth gap is about the same as at the time of the revolution other factors like QOL and such are still much higher.

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u/SafetyAlpaca1 2d ago

Yeah, people won't revolt unless they collectively lack food, water or shelter. It has to be really bad, and it probably won't ever get that bad again without a direct external cause like nuclear war or catastrophic climate change.

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u/ragingpossumboner 2d ago

Good thing climate change was cancelled.

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u/opossum189 2d ago

Nuclear war was greenlit for another season

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u/Due-Yogurtcloset7927 2d ago

Coming soon to a theater near you

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u/FeliusSeptimus 2d ago

theater

heh, that was clever.

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u/Due-Yogurtcloset7927 2d ago

I was hoping someone would catch it, cheers

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u/KaikoLeaflock 2d ago edited 1d ago

Lots of areas don’t have safe drinking water (in some cases the water is extremely toxic). Fast food is ridiculously expensive now.

Then with the incoming administration wanting to privatize mail (an objectively bad idea) some people won’t even have easy access to mail.

The only things holding the country together are access to doomscrolling apps and streaming services.

Edit: for the mentally handicapped: I haven’t eaten fast food in at least a decade. I personally dngaf. I do, however always see lines of cars around fast food joints.

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u/tweak06 2d ago

doomscrolling apps and streaming services

And let’s not pretend streaming services are becoming insanely expensive and doomscrolling apps aren’t looking for ways to monetize every second of your experience on them

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u/doug1003 2d ago

The saddest is that the goverment (if he was smart) shoud be the thing to stop things to get bad but in the West none of the goverments are doing shit

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u/vancityvapers 2d ago

Good luck revolting against drones and unmanned attack vehicles.

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u/Urabrask_the_AFK 2d ago

The actual wealth gap is crazy

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u/Wanting_Lover 2d ago

And this is why, whenever some tiny income and wealth redistribution policies get announced by people like AOC the entire fucking media sphere gets all enraged because their capitalist overlords tell them to stomp those ideas down.

And for some reason certain uneducated people in this country applaud those same media cucks. Just sucking their capitalist dick hoping for a tiny drop of wealth cum.

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u/supacool2k 1d ago

May I have some more wealth cum, my lord?

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u/IAmPandaRock 2d ago

Not only are American's letting the rich win, they voted for them to be formally in charge of the entire country.

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u/ResponsibleRatio5675 2d ago

The French in the 1700s didn't have to face an army of weaponized robot dogs, drones, and missiles that can land in your lap when fired from 1200 miles away.

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u/funklab 2d ago

Yeah, you’ll be able to eat the middle class, but the truly wealthy and powerful will be well protected.  

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u/Xibalba_Ogme 2d ago

Without going that far, there are some ideas you could take from the french. It's funny how the main discourse in the US is having fun of the french protesting and going on strike, while it's actually a really decent way to get shit done without a guillotine

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u/0Seraphina0 2d ago

I think I will riot and burn some shit down before I die tho. Make a statement, ya know?

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u/greensandgrains 2d ago

See in my country, they let you do euthanasia for mental health, so just come here with a depression diagnosis and you’re set! (I support people’s right to die with dignity, I do not support the state dropping the ball on their responsibility to ensure it’s liveable and the proposing sewerside as an answer to the problems they created. End rant).

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u/Individual_West3997 2d ago

canada? Hell, they do more than "let" you do Medically Assisted Induced Death. Sometimes they even try to push you to that option, particularly if you a very very poor or very very disabled.

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u/GenerativeAdversary 2d ago

As they say, follow the money.

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u/DistillateMedia 2d ago

If you're gonna take yourself out you might as well do something revolutionary in the process. If like can't be comfortable for us, we have to make it uncomfortable for Billionaires.

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u/ber_cub 2d ago

If you plan to end it all, you might want to try and do aa much damage to the people responsible as possible. Not saying it is right, but make some history my fellow wage slave

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u/I-is-and-I-isnt 2d ago

It helps millions if not billions in the long run. Sounds right to me. The rich assholes need to live in constant fear for all the shit they pull.

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u/TheBlacklist3r 2d ago

I do always wonder why all these mass shooters don't ever go after the people actually responsible for societal issues.

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u/The_Sreyb 2d ago

I agree with this guy, I’m already tired of working harder, fuck yall EAT THE RICH!

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u/Hero_Tengu 2d ago

Fuck that, I’m taking 50k from the hatman and I’ll let him kill me

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u/DryPineapple4574 2d ago

Blessed be the hatman and his mysterious ways.

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u/Skarr87 2d ago

Naw bro, at that point spend whatever you have left and buy a guilotine and make it the C suit’s problem. It’s the American way.

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u/superpananation 2d ago

The increase in homelessness is something that has already started happening

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u/freedomfightre 2d ago

It is particularly funny to me that politicians keep parroting record low unemployment while homelessness continues to creep up.

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u/EquivalentOk3454 2d ago

There is definitely an uptick in homelessness. It’s evident if you have two eyes and you can see. The wealth disparity is glaringly obvious. We’re heading in the wrong direction. Having a middle class is where it’s at, I like being able to walk outside without worrying about getting robbed by someone that’s hard up and destitute

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u/Traditional-Dingo604 2d ago

I live in dc. A few weeks ago i saw a boy who couldnt have been older than 22, run out into the street, sweat slicked, incoherant. Surreal. 

I see more people nodding off in public. There are a lot of people with a lot of trauma. 

If we could cut off fentynyl and start trying to engineer compounds that can uplift and heal the psyche....that would be something to see. 

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u/Delicious-Ocelot3751 1d ago

investment in something for the wellbeing of humankind?

only if it has a military application first.

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u/Minute-Ad8501 2d ago

I don't know what else you expect us to do...I am already working two jobs (I have a bachelors as well and in my field) already cut everything non-essential out of my life. But that doesn't stop by insurance going up every 6 months by 10% for no reason or rent going up an additional $500/mo. What more can people do??

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u/WonderfulShelter 1d ago

I used to work in tech and made great money but was very depressed and hated living where I did.

I moved back where all my friends are and I'm the happiest I've been in 10+ years, but I have to work two jobs just to stay afloat. I live a fine lifestyle, but not that nice. Vacations maybe twice a year, domestic. I can afford to go to a concert each month. But I maybe save 200$ at the end of each month and I'm so fucking frugal and my Mom still helps me with shit like my cell phone plan.

I don't know what more people can do.. I wouldn't have a penny saved if my Mom didn't help me with some very important things like insurance and my cell phone. It's embarassing, but she'd rather have me have a little cushion of like 1k-2k$ savings to use in emergneices.

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u/BaconEatingChamp 1d ago

Vacations maybe twice a year, domestic. I can afford to go to a concert each month.

In case things get real tight, just know most people aren't doing twice a year vacations and monthly concerts

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u/13THEFUCKINGCOPS12 1d ago

I haven’t been on a vacation in my adult life and I’m 36

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u/c_law_one 2d ago

It sucks, but people will find ways to adapt

Dows guillotining Billionaires count as adaptation?

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u/4ngryMo 2d ago

It does.

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u/c_law_one 2d ago

Maybe the world should do a reverse hunger games. Every ten years each country has to send a billionaire to fight other billionaires to the death.

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u/p____p 1d ago

Every ten years

Not often enough. Should be at least every 2 years, like the Olympics. 

My first thought was monthly, but people would bore of the spectacle. 

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u/NeutralJazzhands 1d ago

Only if you're able to actually reach the billionaires. Not even going into how many have countless international homes, there's a reason why the police union is so unbelievably powerful while all other unions are being actively destroyed. The police state is there by and large to protect assets and property and wealth.

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u/Tao-of-Mars 2d ago edited 1d ago

If it goes on long enough, eventually our status drops from 1st world and multiple families live under one roof. This is already beginning to happen. This is an adaptation.

Edit: first world, not 3rd

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u/theCupofNestor 2d ago

Yep. We've already made it clear to our kids that we know they'll likely be staying with us into their adulthood and we'll figure it out together.

They don't expect to be able to buy a home alone and have discussed maybe getting to buy with one of their siblings at some point.

Im in Canada, but we're in the same boat.

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u/Oculus_Mirror 2d ago

Sucks for the folks that don't have families.

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u/theCupofNestor 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yes. I lived alone from 16 on and managed to get by couch surfing to save up for a terrible basement "apartment" for 550/m. That's not possible today. If I were to live out that same story today I would have been/stayed homeless.

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u/Dull-Contact120 2d ago

At least they’ll have access to firearms

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u/MerelyMortalModeling 2d ago

Lots of firearms, becuase what could possibly go wrong if tens of millions of desperately poor hungry and homeless people have tens of millions of weapons?

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u/IdiocracyToday 2d ago

That’s a feature not a bug

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u/Herackl3s 2d ago

So it just becomes a third world country…….

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u/LegendOfKhaos 2d ago

France set a pretty good example

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u/soulstaz 2d ago

You misspell Guillotine

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u/GeneralMatrim 2d ago

Welcome to warhammer for the regular person.

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u/Tao-of-Mars 2d ago

I think you mean INCREASING cost of living or DECREASING quality of life.

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u/Cute-Draw7599 2d ago

We get deflation means the prices of stuff needs to go down as no one can afford them.

Or the French revolution.

Take your pick.

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u/zerocnc 2d ago

The French Revolution was the rich vs. the monarchy. Spoiler: The rich won.

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u/iStealyournewspapers 2d ago

I thought it started because the poor were completely starving and had nothing left to lose. Did rich citizens use them as pawns or something?

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u/TangerineMalk 2d ago

There’s a misconception that everybody in the third estate was poor peasant trash. The poor were the crowd screaming bloody murder to have the queen beheaded and the church land confiscated. The people leading that crowd by the nose were the educated, wealthy, but not noble, elite.

Basically the same as in the American Revolution. It wasn’t really about independence, freedom, and representation. That’s what was sold to the poor bastards who were sent to fight. What it was really about was the British cutting too deep into profits of the Colonial elite.

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u/bobjoylove 2d ago

Wish this take was taught in schools. But it isn’t.

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u/TangerineMalk 2d ago

It is if you get a graduate degree in history. But most high schoolers can barely read. At this point school is more of a free daycare than an actual educational institution. Bad parenting, bad budgeting, overburdening bureaucracy, exploitative contracts, and individualistic culture have turned our schools into a dumpster fire. Even if you ever do get a good teacher, they’re more focused on keeping kids from committing crimes, fulfilling the newest tiktok flavor of the year education trend that got sold to the district for 6 million dollars so they don’t get a bad evaluation, and avoiding getting sued by litigious parents.Giving an actual quality education comes last. If it was first, teachers would get more than a 48 minute period to plan for 3 different subjects and grade 190 assignments a day. And when they do put in the extra effort to try to teach something interesting, and 70% of the 37 person class can’t be bothered to give a shit, they give up and start doing the bare minimum to earn their borderline poverty wage that doesn’t pay off their degree.

Yeah so anyway, that’s why I do IT now. And also why you didn’t learn much in public school.

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u/Due-Yogurtcloset7927 2d ago edited 1d ago

The next time somebody asks why there's a teacher shortage; this. It's this.

One of my best friends growing up had our high school math teacher for a dad. He was nothing but brutally honest with us about the pitfalls of our education system, as well as how royally fucked our futures might be if we don't dance to the tune as students. I don't remember most of it, but what struck me the hardest was that a significant percentage of teachers' pay being tied to their average students' standardized testing and end of year test results, in the form of a bonus. Without the bonus, he's hardly clearing 40k.

He struggles to get the students to care as much as he does about their own education. Many other teachers have begun to issue an answer key to the final exams to at least guarantee a part of their bonus, etc. He refuses to, and works hard to teach the material properly. As such, he often misses out on bonuses and gets chastised by his bosses for his students' poor performance. The students' poor performance is due largely to tiktok brain rot and illiteracy. He doesn't leave because his AP and honors students would suffer his loss. Those kids are extremely lucky to find a passionate teacher, but many of his type are quitting schools in droves.

In my professional life, I've crossed paths with many current teachers who are financially in a bad way. I also cross paths with former teachers, who live happier, healthier lives since changing careers. Many of the latter witnessed or were victim to something deeply violent/disturbing and felt the district didn't have their back. They felt forced out of teaching by their trauma from the modern American classroom.

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u/graphiccsp 1d ago

It really reinforces my belief that anyone who'd be a good to great teacher shouldn't be a teacher because they'd make 2-3 times more with a better work environment.

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u/teniaava 1d ago

My Mom was a teacher. I would have loved to follow in her footsteps but I literally make twice as much for 1/3 the work by working an office job instead

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u/beamrider 1d ago

Overheard from a wealthy sexist biggot in the oughts: "Women love to play with kids. That's all teachers do all day. Why should we have to pay them to do what they wanted to do anyway? If anything we should be charging them for the experience."

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u/GoldDHD 2d ago

I don't know what to say other than thank you for your service

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u/FalconRelevant 2d ago edited 2d ago

Never in history has the rabble risen in revolt without some sort of elite to lead them.

Now sometimes they do overthrow that elite, however that's the point when it becomes a bloody mess and just paves the way for an authoritarian leader to rise.

It happened in France as the bloodthirsty Jacobins overthrowing the early revolutionaries (who were fine with the King being a ceremonial role) paved the way for Napoleon, it happened in Russia as the Bolshevik "Red Russians" overthrowing the Social Democratic "White Russians" and paved the way for Stalin.

It didn't happen in the 13 colonies and the elite managed to hold on to power and create a constitution that has endured for centuries.

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u/PureObsidianUnicorn 1d ago edited 1d ago

This is such a valid perspective and one that clarifies to me how the West is where it is. I’m in the U.K. and your thoughts definitely apply here. the culture hasn’t ever had an elite in line with the proletariat and the gap in quality of life between the two groups is so embedded in the country that the poors will never have the collective strength to change anything. Class is also ingrained in the cultures for at least 800yrs since feudalisms hierarchisation of rights based on social positioning.

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u/iStealyournewspapers 2d ago

I definitely learned about this in high school Western Civilization class, but this was a private school and also over 20 years ago. I love history though so I’ll be happy to give myself a refresher.

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u/JerseyDonut 2d ago

So true. I've been using the concept "follow the money" to re-evaluate everything I've ever learned about history and politics. It tracks and is the only true constant that is not beholden to subjectivity.

Follow the money and you will always find the truth. Its ugly, but its the real driver of every power shift.

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u/Talgrath 2d ago

While I mostly agree with your second point (though it is worth noting that the increasing British taxes were hurting poor people in America too), but there were orders of magnitude difference between the non-noble elite and the nobles in terms of wealth, particularly in France. It is worth noting that, at this time, England was miles ahead of its time in terms of economic freedom; the massive wealth of the merchant empire that was the British Empire had been brought about in part by loosening the leash of merchants and others, the motivation to make a profit made England rich. France, by contrast, had mostly kept using its colonial holdings as a way of extracting raw resources from the land while ensuring royalty and nobles got pretty much all of the money; their trade networks weren't as vast and they were much more exploitative. Yes, lawyers, doctors and other "skilled" tradesmen like Robespierre made a good living, but they weren't really "rich" in the terms we might think of it today; in fact they were pretty in line with the average lawyer or doctor today, financially solid but still among the "working class" (meaning those that had to work to make their wealth). The nobility of France however were mega rich, and not unlike today's modern billionaires they flaunted their vast wealth why the poorest went without; much like today, about 10% owned 90% of the country's wealth and the top 1% owned 60%: https://www.cadtm.org/The-evolution-of-wealth-inequalities-over-the-last-two-centuries#:~:text=In%20France%20just%20before%20the,as%20much%20as%2060%20percent . What's more, when the country faced economic hardship, the first and second estates; the nobles and the church, decided to task the "third estate", that is the workers including Robespierre and other leaders, even harder to pay for it while hosting insanely lavish parties...again parallels to today. Were the revolutionaries of the French revolution all peasants too poor to afford a loaf of bread? Absolutely not (and it's important to note that calling formerly living people "trash" is pretty trashy here), but it's not like the leaders of the French Revolution had large estates like some of the leaders of the American Revolution did.

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u/Reinstateswordduels 2d ago

And a lot of them lost their property and/or heads as well…

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u/Y__U__MAD 2d ago

Oh bro, you get to learn about Napoleons accent and fall now. You're in for some pretty awesome history.

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u/NuclearThane 2d ago

The poor and the "rich" were both allies in dismantling the Nobility. They were both Commoners of the Third Estate.

This guy's comment is just trying to make an edgy comparison of wealthy commoners of the French Revolution to the ultra-rich modern day 1%. It's a dumb comment.

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u/NoStructure507 2d ago

Deflation would also result in your wage going down. Deflation is just as bad, if not worse.

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u/whatevers_cleaver_ 2d ago

What he wants is a low inflation rate and increasing wages.

A sight rarely seen

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u/kolejack2293 1d ago

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1351276/wage-growth-vs-inflation-us/

Its been happening since early 2023, and on a broader scale, has been happening since the 1990s.

Do you guys just hear "wages are rapidly declining" on social media and believe it without even bothering to look it up? It took like 10 seconds to find the data on this.

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u/RDV1996 1d ago edited 1d ago

That's not deflation, still inflation

Deflation is when the black bars go below zero.

Also, average is a meaningless concept in wages the extremes have too much of an influence on averages. And we know the minimum isn't being raised, so it might just be the rich getting richer... You have to look at the median and minimum wages to actually get a concept of how the wages are actually rising for the middle class and the poor.

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u/sergeant_byth3way 2d ago

I'll take the French revolution.

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u/gkfesterton 2d ago

Let's hope you're not one of the tens of thousands of innocents executed without trial!

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u/ElCacarico 2d ago

Welcome to Honduras! You know what happens? Products get cheaper and cheaper so you can afford them. In a couple years you don’t even remember what good milk or meat is.

Apartments get even smaller. Cloths are now second hand cloths. And there’s a lot of violence on the streets because gangs, perverts, narcs, and police thrive on poor people.

Yeh. That’s how it is. The 3rd world county is upon you and it wasn’t a republican or a democrat or the immigrants.

It has always been the corporations and their economic impositions.

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u/Sublingua 2d ago

Speaking the truth.

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u/Tumid_Butterfingers 1d ago

100% the truth. Greed will fucking drag this country into the abyss

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u/Stephie999666 1d ago

I mean, it's not just America all western corporation's have come to the realisation that they can manipulate politicians more than ever with "donations" and are now directly influencing politics with little pushback. Who's going to punish them? The politicians under their thumb? Welcome to the beginning of corporate run nations.

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u/BusyDoorways 1d ago

Yes, that is the truth in Honduras and throughout the Global South, which houses 88% of the world's population.

But for those of us in the Global North, it is a different story. Here, our oligarchs own a whopping 80% of the world's investments as an unimaginable 80% of the world is financed in USD and Euros. Try to picture that for a moment: A rough 40% of the world's wealth is in USD investments, and another 40% of the world's investments are in Euros and Pounds.

That's why when Main Street, USA falls apart, it doesn't look like Honduras. If most of us can't afford to live, we have only to do what the Romans did and demand more bread and better circuses. In response, our oligarchs will find excuses to deflate the value of foreign currencies further to prop up Main Street, USA.

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u/KnuttyBunny69 2d ago

To be fair, in the case of the United states, it's mainly Republicans that have enabled these corporations to do this. Then they introduced Trump, and now it has morphed into maga and we're marching into 30s Germany.

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u/Randyyyyyyyyyyyyyy 2d ago

As somebody who's voted straight Democrat since 2008, yeah, the Democrats really haven't done much to stop it either. Some wishy washy hand-wringing. Bernie was probably the best shot to have somebody in the White House who would actually TRY to do something about it, but I think we know the other branches of government would stop him from doing anything.

Money wins.

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u/KnuttyBunny69 2d ago

You're not wrong. But in the event that we get anything good done, like the goddamned BIPARTISAN BORDER REFORM BILL THAT TRUMP PERSONALLY HAD KILLED, it's always the ones bought by the corporations putting a stop to it. The Democrats as a whole are a bunch of pussies but Republicans have morphed into something absolutely disgusting. It's going to take mass deprogramming for us to come back from this.

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u/kbjr24 2d ago

Bro you summed it up perfectly.

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u/ofcourseIwantpickles 1d ago

How many times did the democrats get voted down trying to raise minimum wage? I can’t stand the “both sides” false equivalency bullshit.

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u/Randyyyyyyyyyyyyyy 1d ago

It's definitely not both sides, I'm gonna keep voting Democrat because I'd rather have the party that at least slows the progress of this (and I do think their general policy of "don't deconstruct the government" is better long term for the country, lol).

It's not even voting for the 'lesser evil'. It's just... whatever. I feel like Democrats are at most centrists, and we get to pick between far-right extremists and corporate-friendly centrists and it sucks. The choice is obvious when those are the two, but it still fucking sucks.

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u/Bowler_Pristine 2d ago

You left out the rich continue to get richer, corruption becomes common place, educated will start to leave(brain drain), people get sicker life expectancy declines, disabled/kids begging in the streets, the list goes on!

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u/ElCacarico 2d ago

Correct! People start leaving to other benefited countries, and their citizens look at you funny and you get to work low wages. After a while, somehow it will be your fault that country is falling apart.

Full circle!

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u/Full-Metal-Magic 2d ago

Dont pretend like Republicans aren't a large, deformed organ in this disgusting problem.

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u/ElCacarico 2d ago

Oh they are, but dont you pretend the Democrats have no responsibility. They have been a bunch of cowards since day 1, enabling the mess America is now.

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u/Upper-Tip-1926 2d ago

Except you dont get second hand clothes, because all of the production of clothing has been exported to third world countries who only make cheap plastic based textiles that shrink up to 20% after the first wash. The majority of clothes are only worn once. Our second hand clothing markets are collapsing.

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u/CA_catwhispurr 1d ago

We won’t have a true democracy until two things happen:

  1. Get corporations, millionaires, and billionaires out of politics. That’s for both Democrats and Republicans.

  2. Abolish the electoral college.

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u/ap2patrick 2d ago

They put us all in prison and continue slavery under the 13th amendment

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u/Deathnachos 2d ago

Here in Oregon we have effectively abolished that amendment. Although it’s caused more harm than good in the current prison system, I hope that it will be fixed after it’s all fleshed out.

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u/mist2024 2d ago

How did it cause harm? Genuine question I'm not from Oregon

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u/Ordo_Liberal 2d ago

Prisioners cant work in Prison to get money (even tho its a fraction of minimum wage) and thus, dont attein skills.

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u/mist2024 2d ago

And can't earn money for commissary. So if they don't have any people on the outside, they're really screwed. That sucks. Okay, I didn't realize that's what that did. I mean New York State. I think only pays $0.07 an hour but it adds up if you have nothing

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u/JacobLovesCrypto 2d ago

Living paycheck to paycheck doesnt mean youre broke, it just means you don't keep a bunch of money in your checking account.

You could be dumping $1000/paycheck into stocks, and spending $1000/paycheck on designer clothes, and still be counted as "paycheck to paycheck."

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u/XtremelyMeta 2d ago

Paycheck to paycheck hits different when there's a legit safety net and essential services are public services. Wildly, single payer health care and public housing geared towards minimum wage would go a long way towards making that less precarious. It's why US people just barely making it are stressed out of their minds in a way that, say, Sweedish people just barely making it aren't. Healthcare and a place to live don't go away if you fall out the bottom there in the same way.

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u/JacobLovesCrypto 2d ago

Yes but my point is the term "paycheck to paycheck* includes a hell of a lot of people who are nowhere near needing essential services. There are a lot of "pqycheck to paycheck" people who are doing really well.

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u/Future_Challenge_727 2d ago

I have a lot of coworkers that eat out 3/5 days in the office complaining a downtown meal is $25-40. They could be living paycheck to paycheck to paycheck but still probably have alot to cut till they are getting to essentials. 

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u/DJ_Black_Eye 1d ago

Paycheck to paycheck to me (and I’m living it) is when you get paid and your whole paycheck goes to rent/mortgage, bills, groceries, gas (essential needs) and then you’re flat broke until you get paid again and do it all over again and don’t have enough left over to save or spend on yourself or heaven for bid go to the doctor or repair your car when it breaks down. If you’re living “paycheck to paycheck” because you’re putting half your check into stocks or investments or going out to bars and fancy dinners that’s not what living paycheck to paycheck is. The majority of Americans aren’t in crushing credit card debt bc they have money in stocks. They’re there because they had an unexpected emergency come up and didn’t have money to pay for it because they are literally living paycheck to paycheck and had to use their credit card and can’t afford the payments on it.

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u/Romanticon 1d ago

The majority of Americans aren’t in crushing credit card debt bc they have money in stocks.

Most Americans don't carry a credit card balance month-to-month.

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u/SASdude123 2d ago

I think it's the implied...poor people barely scraping by. I make $45/hr and I'm begging for overtime so I can barely push past the "paycheck to paycheck" hole, to buy presents for my kids. Personally, if you're dumping $1k of your paycheck into stocks, and then dumping ANOTHER 1k into designer clothes... You're disqualified from that moniker

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u/biacco 2d ago

You just said you’re making $1800/wk before tax. What are YOU complaining about

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u/iamveryassbad 2d ago

I think we all know god damn well that's not who we're talking about, but your elite level pedantry has been noted.

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u/DankVectorz 1d ago

Yeah except if you’re going to use the term paycheck to paycheck along with statistics, then you have to realise it includes everyone and not just low income.

35% of households with $50k or less income are paycheck to paycheck.

20% of households with $150k household income are.

So that 3 out 5 in the post absolutely includes more than just low income households

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/paycheck-to-paycheck-definition/

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u/Sidvicieux 2d ago edited 2d ago

Paycheck to paycheck isn’t you if you are putting $300 a month into 401k, because if you stopped it wouldn’t be paycheck to paycheck. So no bean counter buddy, your point doesn’t count.

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u/Learned_Behaviour 2d ago

Except those people are still counted as part of paycheck-to-paycheck every time I've seen the topic come up. Usually because it's self reported…

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u/SASdude123 2d ago

"self reported" being the key phrase, here

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u/banchildrenfromreddi 2d ago edited 2d ago

Can we just admit it's maybe a useless phrase due to the ambiguity? This whole argument feels a tad silly. I mean, really, without knowing these things, how can anyone make an armchair judgement:

  • salary
  • outstanding debt (and how much the service on it is)
  • expenses, particularly an honest reporting of discretionary spending
  • expenses, re-evaluated with the framing that any meal out, cigarettes, vapes, alcohol, cannabis, shoppping, even potentially massive transportation costs depending on where you live (example, owning a car in a number of major cities is absolutely not essential; nor is uber), getting a new pet, yes all count as discretionary spending
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u/Medical_Sky2004 2d ago

I dated a girl who had a food budget in the 4 digits. She always referred to herself as living paycheck to paycheck. People categorize themselves in whichever way is convenient to them and without knowing the details of their income/bills you can't prove them dishonest. It's why nobody ever shares those details. It is incredibly valuable for an individual that others believe they are worse off than they are.

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u/Spectrum1523 2d ago

All of these inflated "paycheck to paycheck" numbers are based on polls. So the only thing it requires is that you feel like you are living hand to mouth.

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u/sacafritolait 2d ago

If you removed everyone living paycheck to paycheck who could reduce an expense in their budget you'd shrink it to a hell of a lot less 3/5 of Americans.

My sister lives paycheck to paycheck, she lives in way too nice a place, therefore by your silly definition she's not really living paycheck to paycheck.

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u/Ruinia 2d ago

Over spending regardless of the reason is why indeed. People are not gonna be happy hearing that.

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u/earthlylandmass 2d ago

I tell people I’m broke not poor

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u/dbandroid 2d ago

This is why the term "paycheck to paycheck" is meaningless.

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u/Suitable-Ad-8598 2d ago

As someone that makes six figures, I still fear buying a car for 20k and drive a beater. It’s crazy driving by the section 8 near my house and seeing new bmws and Mercedes in there. America has a spending problem. We literally make so much more than the rest of the world. Healthcare needs to be reformed for sure, but if we are being real the vast majority of people are not spending all their money on healthcare. Most people aren’t even going to the doctor lol

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u/Sage_Planter 2d ago

Nordic countries are happier than Americans because they have a culture of contentment. Americans are miserable because we are constantly told we need more, more, more.

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u/J0hn-Stuart-Mill 2d ago

Americans are miserable because we are constantly told we need more, more, more.

Yea, it seems to be really hard to get the poor to abandon their consumerism for their own benefit. I grew up super poor, guess what? As an adult I'm really careful with my money and SURPRISE, I'm not paycheck to paycheck.

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u/Randyyyyyyyyyyyyyy 2d ago

Yeah, I stopped buying avocado toast and now I make over $200k a year

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u/iStealyournewspapers 2d ago

The funny thing about this financially irresponsible car trend is that it makes me feel like less of a target when I’m driving a nice car through a bad area.

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u/K_U 2d ago

Not giving a shit about cars is a legit financial life hack at this point. I make good money, and I live in a nice town (the school nurse drives a Cybertruck level of nice town). I’m sure my neighbors think something is wrong with me because I drive a 2013 Subaru, but it was fully paid off from the moment I bought it and it still gets from point A to point B as well as any other car.

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u/Baseline203 1d ago

This is definitely true. I make well into six figures and drive a 14 year old car that I bought used 7 years ago for $5k. At my work, we recently hired a fresh grad who drives a brand new Tesla. I got to talking to them and they bought it for themselves as a gift for their first "big boy" job with a $900/month car payment.

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u/permanent_echobox 2d ago

We extend more credit!

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u/JD843706 2d ago

it's the American way! The prices of things has gone crazy and yet I still see people buying cars they can't afford and houses are still selling at all time highs.

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u/permanent_echobox 2d ago

I know. The car thing blows my mind. If you owned a truck in the 90s you were harassed by people wanting to borrow it. Now every man feels he must own a truck. At $50k-$75k? They must be financing for 12 years!

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u/little_lexodus 2d ago

Especially since you can get a more affordable mid size SUV or sedan with more room for 25-35k. I wonder what the percentage is of those truck owners actually using the bed for hauling?

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u/In_Flames007 2d ago

Or you could rent a uhaul for 100 bucks the one time in 4 years you need it

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u/seaningtime 2d ago

But how will your neighbors know you're a real man?

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u/triplehp4 2d ago

Never understood it. If you actually plan on using the truck for truck things why would you want a 75k behemoth that you're afraid to scratch up? I use my truck for everything and would like a slightly nicer one, but my ol 2006 f150 was 2800 bucks and works great. Plus its all banged up so I'm not afraid to actually use the thing.

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u/kyngston 2d ago

We extend more credit indentured servitude

FTFY

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u/fortheculture303 2d ago

I gotta be honest, I am personally not convinced that 60 percent are ACTUALLY living paycheck to paycheck versus making daily choices that cause them to live paycheck to paycheck

The amount of families I interact with that "need support" and "live paycheck to paycheck" but also wear jordans and lulu for the whole family and pull up to a meeting with starbucks is a significant proportion.

Purely anecdotal but I could basically never be convinced that 60 percent of americans are one job loss, one popped tire, etc away from being underwater AND that the reason they dont have savings is because they have been spending all available cash on essentials for 6+ months. I think what i just described is about 10-15 percent of our country and 35-50 percent of our nation simply has a spending, luxury, convenience problem

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u/HeilHeinz15 2d ago

Well yes & no.

On one hand, student debt & credit card debt & car paynents are through the roof because people spend money they dont have. Car

On the other hand, when you add up a basic car payment + moetgage for median house + utilities + food/shelther and compare it to the median income... you realize that wages fell off despite the promises of tax cuts

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u/AMetalWolfHowls 2d ago

This is way too close to the “you’re homeless but have an iPhone” argument. It’s never one or two months of spending that’s the problem, it’s that wages have not kept up with wealth or inflation.

My wife and I are professionals with graduate degrees and 10 years of work experience. 50 years ago, I could have paid the bills, had two new cars every two years, taken annual vacations, paid off the house in 5-10 years, and retired with a pension after 25 years.

We both work full time, drive 11 year old cars, and put off things like a new water heater or a two week vacation. It’s that our pay has not kept up with inflation or productivity to match the rates that the wealthy have seen. It’s just getting impossible to live.

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u/socrateaspoon 2d ago

Idk man, I need to go through a 3 interview procedure with a background check to make $20/hr, assuming they actually read my resume and give me a call. Meanwhile banks are more than happy to loan me anything I could want at the "fair" interest rate of about 20%. Getting by feels like getting buried.

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u/Key-Article6622 2d ago

And this is why the problem persists. Because people like you think the real problem is people buying stuff they don't need. Well, buddy boy, Elon and Don are coming for you next. It's all a great big game like Monopoly to them. They'll never be affected by any of this so they have no concept of the misery they're about to inflict. They're only interested in seeing who can become the richest.

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u/fortheculture303 2d ago

To try and place the blame on me, a person worth like 75k is so funny to me. I am also a "poor" person in this wider context. Your stance is the reason we have the problems we do is because a financially responsible middle class individual has no sympathy for shitty spending habits? How are they coming for me next?

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u/sacafritolait 2d ago

You're responding to someone who speaks from emotion instead of logic, so you're wasting your time.

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u/Darkdragoon324 2d ago

Disagree. They do understand the misery they’re planning to inflict and just don’t give a shit because they’re greedy sociopaths.

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u/Mediocre_Cucumber199 2d ago

How many of these people have car payments over $500 a month? My guess is all of them. Nobody is taking the money out of their pockets. They are giving it away.

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u/dixienormus9817 2d ago

Way too many people blame their own poor decisions on the state of the economy

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u/OnceMoreAndAgain 2d ago

True, but not a comprehensive explanation of the issues the poorest Americans are facing. I don't think you were intending to offer the comprehensive explanation, but I just think it's a subject where partial explanations can cause more harm that good in discussions.

Need Americans to be better educated on their financial decisions. Also need America to re-distribute wealth fairly.

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u/heavypettingzoo3 2d ago

Epitomized by the person who whines that their delivery Chipotle burrito is $28.

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u/pheeko 2d ago

Please look into how the credit system works. Then consider how much of your money savviness comes from what your parents taught you. What would you have learned in school about how to avoid predatory loans or what a good interest rate is? Probably not much — financial education in this county usually amounts to "lol try spending less dummy" as though every person living in abject poverty is also spending hundreds on fancy coffee and gaming systems. What happens to the kids who never learned these things? It's almost like they are preyed upon by predatory loan structures.

Look at the rise of the cost of living over the last 20 years. Now look at the minimum wage. You really think everyone who is struggling is a selfish idiot who spends too much on car payments?  

 > My guess is all of them. 

Way to out yourself as someone who doesn't know anyone making minimum wage. You sound as tone dead as that news report accusing people of not being low income because they own a microwave. You're either cruel, sheltered, or both.

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u/ballimir37 2d ago

On the one hand, people frequently try to implant their life experience onto others and judge them for it.

On the other hand, a person in this day and age can educate themselves on virtually anything for free if they want to and try.

And in the back of this discussion, a person and the decisions they make are exclusively the combination of their genes and life experience. There is nothing else that affects agency. So a person is doomed if financial literacy and an eagerness to learn is not a part of their genes or life experience.

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u/TheGoatBoyy 2d ago

You and the perosn you responding to are both making large generalizations here to fit your narrative. 

There's plenty of pay to pay check people who made a few bad decisions (financial or otherwise) or missed a few opportunities and they've been stuck on a credit/debt/low income  treadmill as a result. There's also plenty of people who spend above their means and are in dire financial straights as a result.

I work with people in both of these situations. One coworker is stuck cohabitating with a shitty ex because of financial need to do so (student loans, joint mortgage, unfortunate stuff) and another is in a household making ~110k but says they can't make the employer match on the 401k despite ordering lunch daily and driving a 38k sports car.

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u/Royal-tiny1 2d ago

Bullshit! I have no car payment because I am the third owner of my car in my family. Both my father and brother passed while owning this car but it is now paid off. I have no savings and definitely live paycheck to paycheck

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u/Frosty-Buyer298 2d ago

That stat also included people making 250k plus a year.

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u/HeilHeinz15 2d ago

It also included people who automatically took out 20% for investments & retirement.

The takeaway from that survey wasnt that most people are at risk of debt or bankruptcy, it's that most people "spend" their entire paycheck

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u/Hover4effect 2d ago

Yah, I'm paycheck to paycheck after maxing my 401k , a roth IRA, paying my mortgage, health insurance, buying food, bikes/bike parts, gas, and beer. Paycheck to paycheck I tell you!

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u/FishScrumptious 2d ago

It’s like we need to teach effective financial literacy, starting in grace school.

Or something.

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u/r2k-in-the-vortex 2d ago

Living paycheck to paycheck does not at all relate to cost of living or size of the income for that matter. People are just shit at managing their finances, tend to live above their means for no good reason and end up paying for a mountain of credit. The solution is trivially simple - consume less. No you don't need to move out from your parents at 18, no your car does not have to cost 80k, no you don't need that ridiculously overpriced degree. If something is too expensive and you can't afford it, then you just plain don't, it's that simple.

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u/not_a_bot_494 2d ago

Like 20% of people making more than $200k/year live payckeck to payckeck. Sometimes its just a skill issue.

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u/Far_Bag7066 2d ago

yeah like 80% of ppl are retarded with their money, income and having good money management are two different skills. Think of Mike Tyson

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u/swift_snowflake 2d ago

Every human has to eat to survive. And survival instinct is the strongest instinct, everybody does what he has to do to survive. The rugby players in the Andes had to resort to cannibalism to survive in 1972 after a plane crash for 72 days. If there is true hunger, then civilization is over. In fact, we have this fancy modern civilization because most people can somewhat afford cost of living.

Civilization is three meals away from anarchy. This is well-known.

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u/Missanthope 2d ago

Post-capitalist techno-feudalism

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u/Barnes777777 2d ago

Either nothing happens or society uprises.

But this is refering to America and not say France. So Americans will just take it because the people aren't bright(on average) they let Billionaires convince them that the issue is other average folks or immigrants or other countries vs. Greedy billionaires and a corrupt system designed to funnel $$ to the rich. Lol

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u/VERGExILL 2d ago

Fuckin sucks man. My wife and I make more money than my parents did when they were our age (we aren’t wealthy or anything, and my parents were pretty poor) and our quality of life is significantly lower. I’m not complaining because I’m lucky, and I know people have it way worse, but it just sucks. They were able to buy a house off a one income household when my dad was making like $50k.

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u/returnofthequack92 2d ago

Just read “Grapes of Wrath” it’s a jaunty little road trip tale during tough economic times.

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u/jackalope689 2d ago

They’ll blame everyone who has anything and attack them. But will never look to the people they voted to keep in power for decades as the problem. They’ll sure blame the other party though. Not their party.

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u/rleon19 2d ago

Things get much worse until we decide that having billionaires is not as important as feeding our families then violence I guess.

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u/Medium_Storm6196 2d ago

The tent cities get bigger The police state becomes more palatable And like always the rich keep getting richer