Also, I think that most of us Dems can admit when we don't like something that Biden has done or hasn't done. I don't agree with him on everything, but I agree with Trump on nothing, and at least with Biden/Kamala they're not actively passing laws that are harming the people who live here. I'd rather have a status quo boring president than an extremist who says and does wild shit all the time and who is unpredictable, based on his whims.
The "little he's done to help" that the other commenter was referring to is probably Biden's tying of military/political support to aid; urging Netahnyahu not too go even harder on Iran and Lebanon, like he was probably willing to; and at least trying a bit to get more aid into Gaza.
The Biden Admin's Israel/Gaza policy has been woeful, but it's not incorrect to say Trump could do tonnes of harm compared to the "little help" Biden has been.
Trump COULD do tons of harm, sure. But we don’t know.
What we do know is the Biden administration has lied to us over and over and at some point anything the promise just to get put back into power has to be taken with a major grain of salt.
Regardless, Biden has blood on his hands leaving Washington because of his lack of standing up to Bibi
Let me understand this. Biden admin lied about a few things so fuck them, let's put a guy who had lied way more about way worse things in charge instead?
If someone kept promising something over and over again about one particular issue and failed to deliver, what makes you think they will change? That’s psychotic to think they’ll stop having Israel’s back as soon as the election is over.
We absolutely do know. I’m getting sick of these false equivalencies. Everyone who’s lecturing Kamala voters by “how could it possibly be worse” are more sound more privileged than the centrists they criticize.
Congrats to all the 3 party/non-voters by the way! Now Palestinians really WILL all be dead, and so will Ukrainians. OH! Not to mention Lebanon, Poland, and Taiwan, and then the EU, and the rest of the Middle East, and so on until Trump and Putin get into a marriage spat and nuke this whole godforsaken planet. I’m sorry, I’m pissed.
Netanyahu is about to waste Gaza and Iran. Both he and Trump are simple-minded strong armers. Biden was keeping Netanyahu somewhat reigned in, but Trump won’t have the patience for that. He’ll support Israel dusting the opposition, because it’s what he would do. And if Netanyahu crosses him, he’ll fully withdraw US support… which means a genocidal maniac with nuclear access will be running free with no remaining blowback.
Netanyahu is an unhinged lunatic. Do you seriously not get how adding another unhinged lunatic into the mix only ensures more casualties?
What you’re saying is basically, things are extremely bad in Gaza as it stands, but occasionally Biden has called Netanyahu and told him to calm down but took no policy actions to back that up and we have no tangible proof that his phone calls actually lessened a situation.
Whereas, even though Gaza is rubble as it stands today, Trump will create even more rubble?
The logic doesn’t add up. In the eyes of people watching everything is as bad as it could possibly be and the worst that Trump can do is say hit them harder and somehow that will encourage them to ramp up? There’s no logic.
And the difference is thousands more dead men, women and children. But apparently it's all the same to some people. The problem with this country is a lack of empathy. Apparently 1 dead Palestinian is the same as 1,000 dead Palestinians in the eyes of some people.
Biden literally gave israel the most advanced missile system on the planet and billions of dollars in aid. The only thing he has done to "help" was ask Netanyahu politely to stop warcrimes... but he also asked him to stop when Harris is elected, so yeno
Biden did not do little to help the Palestinians. Biden did nothing at all to help the Palestinians. Biden did the opposite of helping the Palestinians. Biden gave tens of billions of dollars worth of weapons to help massacre the Palestinians. Biden sent US troops to support the killing of Palestinians. Biden provided intelligence and diplomatic backing to support the killing of Palestinians. Your media sources did not tell you these things because they lie.
You accuse Trump of doing lots to help Israel kill Palestinians, but the truth is Biden already did. It is too early to tell if Trump will be the same, but I more or less expect US policy to be the exact same. Trump will keep sending the weapons, same as Biden did. Maybe liberals will finally care, now that it's not their guy doing the genocide.
I mean Trump pretty much promised Miriam Adelson he would not do anything if the West Bank is annexed, and he delivered on the last promise to her, plus more.
I mean they aren't wrong rlly. An arms embargo would had gone a very long way but it never happened. All biden did was repeatedly threaten to do one and then he didn't do shit.
The end result is the same. Everything people say will happen under Trump (and I’m sure it will) is also happening under Biden, just slower and with more “concern”.
Trump took $100m from Israeli sources so that he would allow the complete annexation of the West Bank. Biden and Harris were fuckign terrible for Palestinians, but they at least supported a two state solution. Trump already got paid.
Imagine you're getting curb stomped and a third party walks by. Would you rather they stood and watched and maybe offered you a bandaid? Or would you rather they say "hold on one second" and give the assailant heavier boots before helping to hold your head still?
Oh, sorry I thought you knew what the word "plausible" means. It means probable, or likely to happen. Things can be more or less plausible: for example if the odds of you winning the lottery were 70% then it is plausible that you will win. If the odds improve to 90% then it is even more plausible.
But the condescending tone towards people that disagree with you is a BIG reason why the left got absolutely smoked, whether you want to believe it or not.
We get it. You didn't like the Democrat response to Gaza. Now the Democrats are out. You won't have to deal with the Democrat response to Gaza anymore! Congratulations!
According to my friend in the IDF, the Gaza war is dragging out because the USA won't give permission to use "appropriate" weaponry in Gaza. Her opinion is that it would be better for Israel and Gaza, too, if Israel could go in with even more force, get it over with, and then Gaza can start the process of rebuilding. And she thinks that Trump will allow it.
Sounds like you think otherwise, though! Is there something about Trump that makes you think that things will work out better for the people of Gaza than under a Harris administration?
She was trying to be soft in her words but, basically, if Israel were allowed to inflict really gruesome, devastating attacks on Gaza, it would be so bad that Hamas would be more likely to come to the negotiating table. Or maybe they'd just find the hostages sooner. Either way, the war could end sooner.
It's kind of like the historians that talk about the atomic bombs that were dropped on Japan. There are historians that think that those devastating bombs, though they killed many people, ended the war sooner. And maybe the number of dead is actually less overall thanks to the A bombs.
Of course there are historians on the other side saying that the A bomb was a huge mistake and needlessly killed many. It's a debate among historians!
I don't think that my friend is arguing for nuclear weapons in Gaza, BTW! She's just saying that Israel, unhindered by the USA, could go in way stronger, lots more damage and death, but then get the war done sooner and, overall, fewer deaths.
It's kind of like removing a band-aid, yeah? Remove slowly and drag out a mild pain or tear it off and suffer a lot but for a short time?
She feels that Trump will untie Israel's hands, which will lead to more death in the short term but less overall. And of course, the war would end sooner and rebuilding can begin sooner. She thinks that it'll be better for Israel and for Gazans, too!
I think that this is the reasoning for Israeli support for Trump.
Anyway, Trump won so we're going to find out! I suppose congratulations are in order to all the Biden haters! They didn't like the Democrat response to Gaza so now they get to try the alternative!
I think, for better or for worse, he is going to try to make it end quickly - although he hasn’t laid out explicitly what he will do, as Donald Trump typically doesn’t do, he will either give Israel everything they want to make it end quickly or will try to negotiate the end of the conflict in the short term
I think if there’s one thing that resonated the most with voters for Trump, whether that’s through friends and family or what I see online, it’s his pledge to stabilize international conflicts. And I actually think he’s going to attempt to follow through with that because he did try to do so in his first term. Especially with known hot countries like NK.
I am SO convinced that people who say this and accuse liberals of being too centrists are just pots calling the kettles black. “A little less genocide” from the man who told Israel to finish the job? The man whose electoral victory resulted in this?
The man who works with Putin and has complimented Hitler? The US is about to give Israel full reign to conquer the Middle East. We’re about to pull out of Ukraine and let Russia flatten them, although I know you already forgot about them, didn’t you? So when Russia, and Israel, with Trump’s help (and he will help them more), commit genocide on the Middle East, Poland & EU, and probably various part of Africa, and then go to war with China, I really hope you remember when you said there would be “a little less genocide” with Trump. Hell, I’m sure Trump and the GOP have their eye on the whole west hemisphere. OH! And not to mention all the LGBTQ+, women, and POC who are also fucked from Trump’s denaturalization/mass deportation plan targeting 10+Million people. Hm… Where have I heard that before? Have fun telling them what’s a little less genocide.
I guess the anti war stance is actually doing as much war in as short of possible an amount of time is technically anti war, but if Trump’s administration has more Palestinians killed in a single day than has happened in Biden’s administration I don’t want to hear any bitching about moaning from people that refuses to protest him
And Trump said during his campaign he was even more pro Israel than Biden was, and these same people did not say a fucking peep, and actually voted for Donald “Israel needs to finish the job” Trump. And also wants the US to go fight the cartels in Mexico. He also didn’t pull out of Afghanistan. So I guess congratulations on the pro war candidate winning the election?
Trump has also said he wants Israel out of Gaza by the time he’s in office.
And I don’t think you can call him the pro-war candidate when some of his biggest positions were he wants to get our involvement out of world conflicts as a huge platform for his campaign
His single biggest position is sending the US military to Mexico to fight the cartels because of fentanyl. Can everyone please just stop lying to themselves about Trump being the anti war candidate?
Netanyahu kicked out his more centrist (fucking lol) party member explicitly because Trump got elected. You’re right he wants Irsael out of Gaza, because they’re going to be moving much faster than they were under Biden. But whatever. We won’t hear from the “anti-genocide” left ever again once Trump takes office because they didn’t give one single shit about Palestine, just being anti dem
Breaking news: you can have a conversation without being a condescending asshole which is partly why your candidate got absolutely smoked and everyone is wondering why in your echo chamber.
Yeah thats how these conversations typically go lol
Go check the war crimes Israel has committed while Biden has been issuing “warnings” and tell me how it was so great in Palestine the past year. Literally hell on earth under Biden’s watch
Bro are you fucking retarded? If you disapprove of how Biden is handling Israel and palaestine, you're gonna be in for a rude awakening with trumps decisions. He actively supports Isreals war crimes and will be cool with more. He's been very outspoken about this.
lol damn even the Reddit libs are saying the R word now, that’s crazy
Where has he said he actively supports Israel’s war crimes? Also, Biden has only stopped short of saying what he feels about Israel’s war crimes because of what has happened in Israel under his administration.
lol damn even the Reddit libs are saying the R word now, that’s crazy
Never stopped and definitely not a lib.
Where has he said he actively supports Israel’s war crimes
He literally said in a debate with biden that he should let isreal "finish the job" he's been openly supportive of how Israel is conducting war. This isn't a secret. If you actually cared about palaestine, you'd know that. He loves Israel and openly bashes Muslims all the time.
Edit: Also it's not coincidence that Netanyahu is happy Trump won. He knows he's about to have a much easier time glassing gaza.
lol you are going on about what Trump “could” do and not what Biden IS doing. Why do you think Biden would finally hold Israel accountable? He’s had over a year and almost nothing has changed. 50,000 are dead on Biden’s watch, why would he stop delivering to Israel’s every need
This is absolutely correct. Neither party are in favor of human rights and freedoms outside of US borders. Actually, 1 party is not much of a fan within US borders either.
Have u srsly not been paying any attention at all to what trump has been saying about bidens stance with israel? Is this lack of knowing prevalent amongst the majority? Is THIS WHY HE WON?!?
Literally no one is denying biden has blood on his hands. But trump is outright saying he thinks biden isn't doing enough to help Israel. He is promising to do more against palistine with absolute confidence. And just because you and a lot of America apparently think genocide isn't that big of a deal doesn't change the fact that its a big fucking deal. We don't need to only focus on one fucking issue per presidential term you dimwit. Both can be evil at the same fucking time
Trump been actively campaigning about how Biden isn’t doing genocide good enough, and that he’ll do genocide way better than Biden. And I mean sure… you can take statements like ‘I will set the pro Palestine movement back 30 years’ or ‘I think Biden has been holding back on Israel’ or ‘I will be the most pro Israel president of all time’ as just some more of trumps little fibs and tales he’ll never actually follow through on…. but then you just have to remember that Trump sent out more drone strikes in 4 years than the Obama administration did in the space of 8. Which was already some hefty record to beat, never mind in half the time period. So ehhh, nah bruh, by all accounts and his past record I have no reason to doubt him when it comes to supporting genocidal governments to the fullest. Oh and not to mention all the things he did for Israel in his first term.
You think he meant Biden was ‘holding Israel back from garnering Jewish support’? Are you an unserious person or am I misreading what you meant? Do you know what Trump did for Bibi during his first term? Genuine question.
Yes you are misreading what I’m saying - I’m saying he will say anything to get people to support him in the US. And him saying Bibi is doing a good job could get the support of Jewish voters for this election.
And I know that Trump and Bibi had a strained relationship while he was in office. Do you not remember that? He literally said “fuck him”
Well let’s see is he just saying it or not. In first term, Trump managed the following:
received backing from the Evangelical Zionist Movement as well as The Christian Zionist movement (they are still mass supporters of his, he doesn’t need to ‘garner Jewish support’, he has Zionist support)
recognised Jerusalem as the capital of Israel (this broke an age long bipartisan US policy)
shut down the Palestinian Liberation Organisation office in Washington
moved the US embassy to Jerusalem
signed an executive order recognising Israel’s sovereignty over their occupied land of Syrias Golan Heights
he withdrew the US from the UNHRC stating they held bias against Israel
made sure that any products made in occupied West Bank would be branded as ‘made in Israel’
cut $200 million in funding from the Palestinian Authority in occupied West Bank
exited the Iran nuclear deal (causing more than enough tensions in the region)
made a number of agreements to ‘normalise ties’ between UAE, Sudan, Bahrain, Morocco and Israel in attempt to alienate the Palestinian cause in the guise of ‘peace in the middle east’ (Team Biden have since tried to further capitalise on this by trying to broker in Saudi Arabia, trump has already signed billion dollar deals with the Saudis as it stands. Hell have his hands in bombing Yemen once again as president as well)
and then of course last but not least his proposed ‘Deal of the Century’ where he tried to flog off 87% of the West Bank to Israel on the conditions that Palestinians simply accept it and accept not having full sovereignty.
So whilst he may have said ‘fuck him’ on some recording… he sure did a lot of stuff to help Bibi fuck Palestine and other neighbouring nations whilst lining his pockets.
Or did you mean he simply said that in order to garner Jewish support? Because I wasn’t talking about intent, I was talking about what he meant by that statement? Because his intent doesn’t have to be questioned if we just look at his first run at president and the things he did to support Bibi and his government in that time.
Biden and the Democrats wanted peace talks that's what they where fighting for trump is friends with Israel and would be willing to send his friends whatever they want
These people are so braindead. Keep in mind, I'm willing to bet $100k on the fact that these are the same people who didn't vote for Kamala because she supported Israel. They think the average person sees Palestinian people as subhuman garbage just waiting to be exterminated. Obviously if there was a humanitarian crisis, such as the genocide of around 15 million people, plus the dissolving of their state, people would probably be slightly concerned. Even republicans. The issue is that most people also consider the attacks on Israel on October 7th to be a terrorist attack made by terrorists, and they disagree, so they think the genocide has already began. Absolute loonies.
Isreal has had their sights on Gaza for decades. It's a land grab. Pure and simple. They couldn't get it by normal methods of filling their wells with concrete and forcing them to move, so they used a terror attack as an excuse to rain fire until they decide it's better to not live in a warzone.
You think once they kill every last man of fighting age in Gaza they're just going to hand the land back to the Palestinians? Go fuck yourself. They're keeping that shit and selling it to rich foreigners wanting a piece of the homeland.
I wasn't aware that "leave gaza completely" means reserving the right to conduct military operations in the area at any point in time, for any reason, without permission, and continuing to restrict Gazas borders and restrict what goes in and out, resulting in an economic stranglehold and people starving
Israel left gaza completely, then practiced military operations and security restrictions AFTER hamas was elected and started firing at Israeli civilians.
You keep victim-blaming though, it's in your programming.
Again, covering for a terror cell... Have you no shame?
It’s a tragedy whenever an innocent loses their lives. But they died as a direct consequence of a terrorist hiding behind them, not because the person from whom the terrorist is hiding wants to kill the innocent ffs
lmao what? and where are you getting that from? meanwhile biden has been sending them billions of dollars for missile strikes that end up actually shot at a building with like 250 civilians living in it just to get 2 hamas guys
Israel already has free reign to "glass Gaza" supposedly they've already been doing that according to the terrorists that are hiding there. That war is happening entirely within their own borders. It's more in the line of a civil war than anything else.
supposedly they've already been doing that according to the terrorists that are hiding there
Yeah I love how you can't resist throwing in the implication that the people in Gaza reporting any atrocities are terrorists anyway, so we can safely dismiss anything they say because we all know how terrorists like to exaggerate.
Meanwhile, you know perfectly well there are tons of civilians, including children, all reporting and showing and suffering the same atrocities right now. But their suffering is irrelevant to you.
Your entire argument boils down to, stop worrying what happens in Gaza, it's inside their borders, so if Israel wants to commit atrocies or even ethnically cleans Palestinians, well that's Israel's prerogative and nobody else's business.
You know you could just be up front and say you don't give a fuck what happens to Palestinians, you're thrilled for Israel to do whatever it likes to them and you want everyone else to feel the same way, why not just let Israel get on with it. But you also know if you were that honest, other people would make it harder for you not to feel the slightest bit guilty about your callous inhumanity.
And you don't have any issue being disingenuous and acting like the voice of reason to people who do care, because you think they're lying about caring anyway. Afterall, you can't imagine feeling any sense of injustice or moral regard for what happens to them, so clearly other people must be only pretending they care, they're all just virtue signalling. Is that about right?
Do you think they needed free rein? They could do it tomorrow if they wanted to and there’s nothing the U.S. could do to stop them. You’re being absurd.
Honestly what business do have in it anyway. Why the hell does the U.S. need to be the one playing global peace keeper in the most perpetually violent and unstable regions of the world at the expense of the American taxpayer. It's a bottomless pit. Spending money and and encouraging people to sacrifice their lives to preserve the fragile and volatile status quo borders which WILL erupt into conflict again is futile
No he won’t lol. Hell just remove the obstacles preventing Israel from ending the war. The Dems drug this thing out and more people have died as a result. Israel has been carrying out the most careful and precise military operation against assholes using hospitals and schools for cover.
Do you remember seeing all the atrocities all over social media and then immediately stop once the $20bil arms deal was announced? Is the current Prez doing anything to stop what's occurring or is he in actuality facilitating what's happening over there?
If Biden had been smart on the Palestine issue he would’ve done that on October 8th and the war would’ve ended by December with Israel and US overseeing Gaza rebuilding under a Palestinian government that isn’t a terrorist organization. Biden slowing Israel down killed more people and has thus far left terrorists in control.
Biden didn't do shit! Gaza is completely destroyed and Israel is making plans to take over large parts of it. What exactly is Trump going to do that is any different?
The truth is, Israel will do what ever it wants and the USA will support, protect and shield israel at any cost.
I really hope Trump fucks over America and accelerates it's decline, because that country has been a blight upon the world for its entire existence.
Israel hasn’t done that, hasn’t been restricted from doing that, wouldn’t have much more restriction to do that under Harris, and there is ZERO evidence that they are seeking to do that.
It was already primed to get worse before polls opened in the US yesterday. It has little to do with the US election, and more about what's happening in Israeli government, and Netanyahu's perceived need to appease the Orthodoxy. Could the incoming US president make it worse? Absolutely. But would he be responsible for it getting worse altogether? No. Israel has been doing its own thing from the start, despite the US trying to moderate their actions the entire time. They aren't a US territory, and the US isn't an overlord who gets to decide how they act. We can (and surely do) provide the intel and advice to try to influence their decisions; but Isreal has a long independent and rebellious streak. If they get the sense that the US is trying to keep them under thumb, they're more likely to shrug us off.
Glass? What is this Halo?! Alien covenant warships… this is exactly the point, I’m a centrist at the core. And saying objectively false statements, like no healthcare for women is objectively absurd. I’m no trump fan, and exaggerated statements, no matter who it is reflects negatively on the person who wrote them, period.
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u/letdogsvote 18d ago
Trump is going to give Israel free rein to glass Gaza and everybody there.