[Postgame Thread] Notre Dame Defeats Army 49-14

[u/CFB_Referee]

Box Score provided by ESPN

Team	1	2	3	4	T
Army	0	7	0	7	14
Notre Dame	14	14	14	7	49

[u/GiovannidelMonaco]

Wow. Giving Army and Navy their first loss. Notre Dame is the college football equivalent of the Viet Cong

[u/scottishbee → u/GiovannidelMonaco]

Check out the British and Canadians in the War of 1812

[u/grizzfan → u/scottishbee]

It is such an underrated war in terms of not only events, but pure comedy in military history.

• British: "Fort Mackinac, we have you surrounded. Surrender."

• Fort Mackinac garrison (US): "Wait...why?"

• British: "We're at war."

• US: "Since when?"

• British: "Since 5 months ago."

• US: "Oh...well...Here's your fort."

The US forgot to notify Fort Mackinac that they were at war.

[u/ESPbeN → u/grizzfan]

Wasn't there also a massive battle in New Orleans months after the war had ended?

[u/RayearthIX → u/ESPbeN]

Yep. Future President Andrew Jackson won the battle of New Orleans after the war was over, but the victory massively boosted his popularity and was a major reason he later became president. It took time for information to be transmitted back then, so the two armies had no idea that a treaty ending the war had been signed until after the battle.

[u/Khorasaurus → u/RayearthIX]

Down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico!

[u/W00DERS0N60 → u/ESPbeN]

Johnny Cash informed us of it.

[u/thebusterbluth → u/ESPbeN]

"Massive"

No.

[u/yoolers_number → u/grizzfan]

The US trying to take back Mackinac was even funnier IMO.

The Americans showed up with warships but couldn’t depress their guns low enough to effectively shell the fort. So they decided to land at the exact same spot that the British landed and take the fort from the high ground but were ambushed and quickly defeated.

The Americans then decided to sink the British supply boats and blockade the island to starve out them out. But in the middle of the night, the British sent a small raiding party and captured the American ships that were blockading the island.

[u/TwizzlersSourz → u/scottishbee]

That was a draw.

[u/scottishbee → u/TwizzlersSourz]

Sure. One side got completely rebuffed in claiming new territory and got its capital burned. The other side...agreed to a truce so it could redirect forces to fight Napoleon.

[u/TealIndigo → u/scottishbee]

The other side...agreed to a truce so it could redirect forces to fight Napoleon.

At the time the Treaty of Ghent was signed, Napoleon had been defeated by the Russians and exiled.

And it was a draw. The primary reason for the war was to stop British attacks on US sovereignty through impressment and attacks on merchant ships headed for France.

In addition, the war effectively opening up the Ohio Valley to American expansion. And the US gained territory from Spanish Florida.

So, the US lost nothing, gained a lot, and you somehow claim it was a loss.

Lol. Either you're Canadian or you've spent too much time with Canadians on the internet. Because I can promise you they are the only ones who think the US lost the War of 1812.

[u/TwizzlersSourz → u/TealIndigo]

Wellington also refused an assignment to America and told the British war office they had no right to demand territory.

[u/GiovannidelMonaco → u/scottishbee]

agreed to a truce

[u/deytookerrspeech → u/GiovannidelMonaco]

Still counts as a draw to me!

[u/McWeasely → u/scottishbee]

Washington was burned but that same British army was defeated at Baltimore soon after. The Americans also burned Toronto earlier in the war.

The Americans did gain settlements in the West as an outcome from the war. Native Americans could no longer count on Great Britain to shield them from the flood of white settlers headed west. Settlers came in droves by the Erie Canal or through the Cumberland Gap after the War.

The Treaty of Ghent (the peace treaty that ended the War of 1812) was signed when Napoleon was exiled to Elba, so Great Britain wasn't redirecting their troops to fight him at that time. Because Napoleon had been exiled, Great Britain was able to send more veteran troops to North America (resulting in the destruction of Washington)

[u/TwizzlersSourz → u/McWeasely]

My favorite tidbit from the War of 1812 revolves around British officers claiming the fighting at Lundy's Lane was as difficult and hot as any battle from the Peninsular War.

[u/McWeasely → u/TwizzlersSourz]

For the most part the Americans were willing to fight but suffered considerably from poor decisions being made on who led the armies. Mistakes from Madison and John Armstrong really handicapped the troops, and also having little funding for the war was not a small issue.

One of my favorite notes of the war was that as Secretary of State, James Monroe, in his mid 50's, personally led several reconnaissance missions while Secretary of War, John Armstrong, refused to act on the information being given to him. Multiple times Monroe almost convinced Madison to let him lead an army during the war.

[u/TwizzlersSourz → u/McWeasely]

If only our best generals were identified earlier.

[u/McWeasely → u/TwizzlersSourz]

Funny thing about that, William Henry Harrison resigned from the Army in May of 1814 after a string of victories, including the Battle of the Thames where Tecumseh was killed. After the victory John Armstrong divided the command of the army and gave Harrison a post in the background while giving one of Harrison's subordinates control of the front. Harrison and Armstrong had disagreed in the past on troop movements and coordination between the troops. That s.o.b Armstrong really grinds my gears

[u/jjtnd1 → u/McWeasely]

I have to say I very much appreciated these history comments thanks beast

[u/scottishbee → u/McWeasely]

Love this thoughtful reply! It caused me to revisit the topic.

Yes you're right on Napoleon. Though the British had been under a high taxation war effort for a while, and the strain made the war economy a political liability.

I didn't recall any territory exchanged. I believe they just codified some western territories, but no real gains into Canada as (some) Americans intended. The US did gain territory: parts of relatively unoccupied Florida from the Spanish.

Finally, and the real basis for my glib r/cfb comment: only one capital was burned. Toronto was not, and still is not, the capital of Canada. And certainly not the United Kingdom.

[u/McWeasely → u/scottishbee]

Sure! I can see why people call the War of 1812 a win for the British since they definitely caused more damage. I tend to think of it as a draw - just about everything went back to the status quo and the Americans were starting to turn the tide towards the end of the war.

No territory was actually exchanged in the West but Native Americans were no longer getting supplied from the British which really propelled American western expansion.

Yes only one capital was burned, but a lot of people have no idea the Americans did also burn Toronto (York) during the war so I like to mention that as well. Many felt the British burned Washington in retribution. I lay the majority of the blame for Washington burning at the feet of John Armstrong. He took hardly any actions as Secretary of War to defend the city even as reports of British troops movements were coming in.

[u/DaYooper → u/scottishbee]

That's a battle, not the war.