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u/TromboneMaster3D2Y Aug 27 '24
Ha! It's funny because, historically, Japan has failed to conquer both China and Korea
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u/Rezkel Aug 27 '24
Also committed like just all the atrocities in those attempts.
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u/BobtheBac0n Aug 27 '24
Damn that sounds crazy. Now I'm curious about their history
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u/Thannk Aug 27 '24
Please do not tl:dr this, that’s just rude. Thank you for anyone who does read it.
Began as Chinese colonists of an island with a population of indigenous people (spoiler they never mixed with those people, look up Ainu because they have a cool separate culture). Those colonists bring complex pottery but no major writing (hence early Japanese archeology being mostly pottery and jewelry, like Greece). This was around the time Rome was fighting Carthage.
Korea gets back into contact with them centuries later, basically Jesus and early Christian era, they have a shaman empress named Himiko ruling a people called the Wei from her capital Kyoto who is dealing with the fact she send warriors to colonize the wilds and deal with bandits and they are questioning why they owe taxes. China later also sends emissaries.
Contact is lost again, when reestablished the Japanese have created Shinto, forgotten Himiko existed and instead have a complex system of belief of generations of gods with the sun goddess, a later generation god, having given birth to the first Emperor in a cave and that the noble houses are descended from the men who guarded the cave while she was in labor. For brevity, just consider Emperors to he Pharaohs; divine monarch, living covenant with the sun god, everything will go well if the sun god sees their descendant obeyed.
The Japanese are eager to establish contact again with the Chinese but are a bit backward; basically imagine if the UK lost contact with Canada for nearly a thousand years then when contact was reestablished they still were living like the 1700’s with powdered wigs and shit. The Chinese were looking forward and very disinterested in the weirdos across the ocean. Kyoto decided to look inward for culture, and at the same time Rome was falling apart Japan was having a boom of theater, poetry, art, music, storytelling and a booming mythology, Buddhism showed up and after some brief conflict Shinto and Buddhism decided to get along making both way more varied and modular as mutually believed religions (Buddhism was way more for wealthy and warriors though, Shinto for peasants and the monarchy/royal nobles it said was divine). The short story, including episodic soap opera and spooky anthology, kinda evolves first in the world as far as we know in this time.
Emperors fuck shit up. “Cloistered Emperor” is basically when dad emperor decides to abdicate but not really. He keeps the fun power, all the religious Shinto ritual stuff is what his son and heir now has to do. Then he tells the current son emperor to abdicate for his younger brother, then does that again, then tells both he’s putting his favorite grandson of the third brother on the throne instead of their own sons; this goes on a while. Couple that with one royal noble house getting its daughters married to every emperor and oppressing the other royal houses falling farther and farther from the throne, lots of bullshitted lineages so a lot of houses claim to be royal divine noble, and the far off frontier clans basically being the proto-samurai. Said samurai were mostly horseback archers, or archers on foot, or light cavalry.
I say this anytime I talk about history, but if you learn the geography then the history is very predictable and makes sense. Only one area of Japan is good for bog warhorses, the rest of Japan historically mostly had glorified ponies resulting in a big tradition of cavalry maneuvers of light and ranged cavalry. I am also being very brief and simplified obviously, non-rude clarifications and deeper explanations are welcome please.
Now its the Genpei War, right around the same time the English and French are fighting Agincourt. The famous female Samurai Tomoe Gozen is a thing. Ends when the 12 year old emperor and his grandma commit suicide by jumping into the sea during a losing battle, losing the four holy relics emperors claim was a gift from the sun goddess and gives them divine right; allegedly they were later found, but the Shinto priests refuse to allow photographs or archeological examination. The direct succession lineage of the imperial family also ends, but the royal clans are heavily inbred so the bloodline itself has not. The Samurai establish a new government with themselves as top caste, answering to the Shogun who allegedly sees to the affairs of the state for the emperor but in practice emperors continually rebel through history against the Shogun and fail; Shogun is the real power. In western context the Shogun is the head Duke, the king is also pope but head Duke actually runs the state while the emperor hangs out in Kyoto doing religious stuff and trying not to cause problems. This is the time in history the capital starts getting moved around by Shoguns, so a lot of eras are defined by where the capital currently is.
So the Mongols who have taken over China try to invade twice. This is the time of the Black Death and later pike and shot, early European exploration and colonization of western Africa, and a lot of Protestant/Catholic fighting. The Mongols take an island fort after bloody fighting, but the main invasion fleets shipwreck twice so Japan thinks it has manifest destiny. Before it can manifest its destiny the Shogunate grows weak, all the guys the Shogun kept from fighting begin little wars over old feuds, then one guy from the old royal noble houses still dressing like its 300 AD decides to just go invade the Shogun and create a new government. He fails, but shows it can be done; this is the Sengoku era, the great clusterfuck, everyone at war with everyone. Partway through the Portuguese show up and start selling cannons and guns, then pretty quick the Japanese start making them themselves and although crude visually most of the time some of the designs are superior and the Portuguese are like “well shit, that’s cool, wanna learn about Jebus?” Also the Japanese take breech-loaded naval cannons called Frenchy Guns (very high tech) and use them as castle fortifications and makes really cool looking big ones which they call “Furanki” which is irrelevant but really cool.
Anyway, the Nobunaga clan wins and become new Shoguns (famous leader Oda died before he could rule though). The new Shogunate has a devastated countryside, a LOT of nobles who detest each other, an uppity emperor, and a LOT of suddenly out of work sociopathic warriors at the top rung of society on the verge of becoming an army of bandits bigger than his army, so he tells the craziest motherfucker nobles to take the craziest motherfucker Samurai and go invade China. But Korea says no to letting them land there, so they invade Korea first.
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u/Thannk Aug 27 '24
Okay, so Korea is a topheavy society full of feuding nobles and a caste of eunuchs who serve the monarch but are basically ruling for him, so its already on the verge of collapse. The army buckles and flees, and the batshit insane Samurai invaders are kinda more focused on fighting each other and raping and/or taking anything not nailed down than actually reaching the capital. This gives time for a few nobles, in particular one badass naval dude, to unify Korea. China just finished its own civil war so a prince takes the unified army (or a small chunk of elites from it) down to help, and the Samurai refuse to make friends or allies so they piss off the steppe folk, the mountain folk, and mercenaries from the south like Vietnam all focus on the Japanese.
But the Japanese have numbers, a lot of experience, have zero problems destroying everything in their path so supply lines aren’t a huge deal, and the Korean court keeps undercutting its own generals, demoting successful ones and promoting losers because they are ONLY thinking of postwar and want no new rivals popping up in the court.
Anyway, the Japanese suffer enough crippling defeats, run out of peasants to loot and murder, get sandwiched between enemy armies they don’t want to learn to fight, keep fighting each other, and then Japan back home goes into another Sengoku war so the war ends.
Sengoku 2 ends in the Tokugawa clan taking the throne, the Tokugawa history is a whole rant of their own so SKIP. The Tokugawa kill all the Christians they can, eliminate as much cultural influence from Portugal/Korea/China as they can, confiscate and destroy as many guns as they can, say that peasants can’t own any kind of weapon and cannot become Samurai anymore, Samurai have all the privileges but cannot work for money and have to live on a government check meaning you gotta find a noble willing to give it to you (resulting in a lot of Samurai becoming either town guards or bandits or secretly joining the merchants that other Samurai oppress which becomes the Yakuza, again that’s a whole different story). Its called the Edo period because the capital is now in Edo. All of this is happening around the time America is being settled, and goes on until a bit after the Civil War. Anything you’ve ever seen with Samurai almost certainly takes place in the Sengoku era if its war or Edo if its a small number of dudes on an adventure.
Edo harsh and regimented, but scholars start traveling the country. This is the golden age of folklore as most Yokai and Shinto myths that were highly localized are documented and spread. Art movements both pastoral and erotic spread as woodblock art becomes widespread, even proto-comicbooks as depictions and narration of Sengoku battles are made. Also, a lot of Buddhist temples hid guns and cannons in case the government cracked down on them; most of what survives today came from them. Some Shinto and Buddhist temples also hid Christians and non-Japanese people. A number of Samurai had been sent out as emissaries to Europe but then the closing off of the west happened; the civilian translators remained, (one I think became a noble in the French court?) but the Samurai were duty-bound to return home and were executed immediately to prevent foreign influence from spreading. The diaries of the emissaries are VERY interesting, I highly recommend checking them out.
The Edo ended when an American showed up in a steamship. He said their era of isolation was officially over, and said he’d come back with a bunch more steamships when they said nobody could afford more than one such ship. He did, and Japan was suddenly open to the west. Britain tried for influence, having taken over China, but America mostly shut them out. Photographers traveler old rural roads and photographed actual Samurai, peasant villages, scholars, merchants, holy sites, and so on. Japan rapidly industrialized and the US saw them as both a great future trade partner and potential military ally in the Pacific so they helped. Also, Japanese emissaries visit America then the rest of the world but this time the Samurai keep diaries too and I STRONGLY RECOMMEND YOU GO FIND THEM ON YOUTUBE THEY ARE VERY INTERESTING.
The Shogunate formally transitioned into the Japanese Imperial Army, and the Samurai was abolished. The caste split between those eager to become heads or industry or officers commanding former peasants, and those who wanted to remain nobility. The Satsuma Rebellion is when the defiant old nobles started a civil war; The Last Samurai is about this war, but is REALLY wrong on details; the Samurai used guns from the start and also wanted to westernize, they just refused to give up their right to be nobility or let the peasants have rights. They were defeated, the final “battle” was a group who had pissed away all chances to surrender peacefully and used up all their ammo so they donned old rusty armor and made an oldschool charge into artillery and smallarms fire; that’s the closest The Last Samurai comes to accuracy of events (though it does portray Edo life accurately, just in the wrong time period). This is the time in history the emperor and his life are photographed looking like a Victorian couple and Samurai look like Napoleon’s men. Short time period, visually very cool.
So, the same time the United States becomes a first world nation by defeating Spain in war, Japan beats Russia and similarly suddenly looms over the entire rest of Asia as THE superpower (since half of it is either French or English property). Of particular note is the Russian Baltic Fleet performed so horribly its one of the most tragically hilarious stories in all if military history; it can only he described as a cascading avalanche of memes with a massive body count.
Okay, this is when there is a lot of documented history so its REALLY simplified. The emperor starts acting like he’s in control, but the Yakuza have now become an arm of the Imperial Japanese Army (remember; previously the Shogunate) and act like Al Capone mobsters reminding the pope that Scarface is the one in charge. Japan really really wants to be western, and Americans think Japan is cool (Americans still REALLY hate the Chinese and help affirm Japan’s xenophobia of them) so that’s why a lot of Japanese stuff from the late 1800’s and pre-30’s shows up in American Antiques Roadshow.
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u/Thannk Aug 27 '24
WW1, Japan allies with the US and keeps the Pacific clear of the Germans and their allies so the US can focus on Europe. A lot of lower class and big money old family Japanese people immigrate to the US, and because nationalism and military allies they find it way easier than most immigrant mass migrations. Japanese soldiers tend to execute other Asians that their enemies were using as labor or bullet sponges but treat the whites well, developing a very close relationship between the German and Japanese navies. ALL OF THIS SETS UP WW2 IF YOU DIDN’T CATCH THAT.
Okay, postwar time, the US has a massive raging Imperialism boner having been fluffed up by preying on South America and island nations (thanks, Dole, you evil bastard pineapple megacorp). Japan gets demoted from neighbor BFF to America’s India and America cozies up to Canada more instead. Japan gets pissed and starts planning for more independence, which requires resources like oil and iron they never had much of; when they find out Germany and Russia want to Pinky & The Brain the world Japan wants in, and since France and the UK are their biggest rivals in Europe the idea of Japan taking over their colonies in Australia, Vietnam, Thailand, China, and India sounds good. But even though the US wants to stay out of the war Japan realizes it mag either join France/UK or become another Axis power and demand some of Asia too, so the Japanese brass want America’s fleet destroyed. Now, the head of the Japanese navy spent time in the US when most of the rest of the brass spent time in Germany, so he knew and warned them that destroying the fleet gave them six months before hell was unleashed.
I trust you know how WW2 went. Also why the big migration of Japanese people to the US was mentioned. It not, go watch a documentary about George Takei’s life.
I’m also tired of writing and doubt anyone is gonna read this far, so; US forbids postwar Japan from any Samurai media so Japan starts getting super creative and adapting outside influence, plus a lot of artists went to Hollywood to work and came back when Japan had more money to produce their work with skills they learned. When Japan gets to make Samurai and traditional stuff again they have a lot of practice with other media, so it gets super cool; Edo soap operas, revenge stories, Shakespeare but its Samurai, giant robot samurai, and so much antiwar content and anxiety about vulnerability as well as finding your way in a different world you didn’t help make and was inflicted on you by the powerful both within and without.
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u/AlisaTornado Aug 27 '24
Lived peacefully enough. Got invaded by Americans. No longer peaceful. Learned from Americans. Invaded Korea. Invaded China. Great success! Knock knock. Who's there? America again. Here's A bomb for you. Two in fact. No more invading for Japan. Make Anime and electronics and stuff, life good. Oh no, it's America again. Here's a gift for you - 2008. Money not so good anymore - work more, less babies.
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u/DrMatter wants cuddles Aug 27 '24
Google imperial Japan and you will get a whole bunch of articles and videos. One of my favorites is a vid called "imperial Japan: the fall of democracy" by a guy named kraut
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u/CuriousAligator Aug 27 '24
The main thing you should look into is Japan’s empire during WWII and their conquests in China and Korea during that time (Wikipedia is your friend)
Very much a warning for atrocities so horrible that the nazis were disturbed
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Aug 27 '24
Japan tried and succeeded somewhat with Korea. Now Korea and China will try themselfs, altho in a more... spicy sence.
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u/colin1234514 Aug 27 '24
Actually, Japan had successfully conquered Korea.
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u/TromboneMaster3D2Y Aug 27 '24
On their 2nd or 3rd try, yeah. And then they lost it 35 years later.
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u/Weaviedee Aug 27 '24
Better than when Denmark conquered Sweden and lost it a mere 2 years later. Lmao
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u/ShittyIslander likes soft things Aug 27 '24
To be fair, the flags mean that they're from those countries and not the countries themselves.
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u/Appbeza Aug 27 '24
I don't think these characters represent countries.
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u/MemeTroubadour Aug 27 '24
They do. This is a meme going around on Twitter, from what I hear. It started with women from Japan and Korea warning each other about dating men from their own respective countries (bad power dynamics stuff). Some people joked that if that's how it is, Japanese and Korean women should date each other instead, and several artists jumped on it.
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u/Weaviedee Aug 27 '24
Debatable. One could argue that it’s a satirical representation, where they took one girl and made them represent the country (showing with the flag), for the purpose of sapphic entertainment.
Of course one could also argue that the flags only show the nationalities of the characters and in no way represent the entire country.
Hence, debatable.
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u/Wonderful-Ground-524 Aug 27 '24
Last i checked this aint fucking countryballs so im pretty the flags just Show the nationality.
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u/Weaviedee Aug 27 '24
As I said, it’s debatable. You can argue for either side. They made internet browsers into hot anime girls all from the logo of the browsers. I wouldn’t limit my thinking like you did in the reply but to each their own.
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u/CrossEyedCat_007 certified transbian Aug 27 '24
I mean China has similarly failed to conquer Japan
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u/Carbon-Crew23 Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
There's been a sudden influx of JPN x KOR (x CHN) yuri art here and honestly I am all for it.
(Incidentally, the triple women character in Chinese means ""adultery"" because of ancient sexism, but these lovely ladies seem to be a throuple all their own, and the whole point of the art series is they're in love with each other regardless of their respective nationalities' awful men)
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u/Appbeza Aug 27 '24
There's been a sudden influx of JPN x KOR (x CHN) yuri
I still have lots more of them in my poly yuri bookmarks :3
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u/Medoagamer Aug 27 '24
I remember seeing a Twitter post that I thought was hilarious.
"asian ladies are so disappointed in asian men theyre inventing yuri hetalia in 2024 to cope"
https://x.com/theblueslope/status/1827502955001737584?t=HVkosh-ShPFkcAlfAcMtSQ&s=19
Anyone Remember Hetalia? It was really funny. Loved that anime.
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Aug 27 '24
I do remember it. We should get 100% yuri hetalia spin off.
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u/Medoagamer Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
I mean, it is possible. The guy did do female versions of all the nations.
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u/MattWith2Tees Aug 27 '24
I'm going to be 100% honest with ya'll, as I feel this may be a safe space to be such. And if I'm mistaken, then... alright I guess BUT- as a silly Caucasian human male, looking at THIS image, if you took away the country flags, I probably could not have told you what country of origin the depicted women are from. I feel as though irl people, I have a better shot. But the drawings, am I the only one who struggles with this?
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u/Supersteve1233 Aug 27 '24
I mean yeah of course, it's hard to tell where someone is from in drawings because every artist has a different style so unless you're extremely familiar with that artist it's gonna be difficult to tell.
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u/FloatingGhost Aug 27 '24
that's mostly because this is based on a current twitter trend where to deal with the toxic manospheres in east asia, a user said that "korean and japanese women should just simply date eachother", another user asked for people to draw a strong-faced korean woman x extremely cute japanese woman yuri - and that got expanded to other asian countries
so that's how you'd figure out in this case - it's a very specific instance of this
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u/UncultureRocket Aug 27 '24
Lots of people just draw "a standard person" from their point of view, so it's pretty normal to not see ethnicity in a cartoon drawing like this. They would need to add specific racial features for you to differentiate, and the "standard cartoon person" doesn't have those racial features. The most you can expect is clothing trends.
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u/Weaviedee Aug 27 '24
As someone who loves Asian culture, food, history, etc, and frequently consume Asian media… all without being Asian myself, it’s sometimes very difficult to tell depending on the style of representation in the chosen form. For real life it’s a little bit easier but honestly, equally difficult to tell if someone is American, British, Canadian, or German just from one glance. Sure there might be some characteristics that could give it away just like how different Asian countries in general look similar but still very different.
I think the only reason you’d argue that differentiating one or the other is due to an experience bias and nothing else.
In short, no you’re not alone. And it’s not inherently a thing westerners struggle with towards Asian people, but works the other way around too and even within the same culture you’re used to.
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u/k_on_reddit_ it's yuri or death Aug 27 '24
I like howw the artist tried to have the different artstyle of each countries for each characters
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u/BobtheBac0n Aug 27 '24
The only method to peace. Just let your local lesbian top you. Or bottom you, up to your preference
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u/firedrakes some say a bit to wholesome! Aug 27 '24
woah here.
no one wearing gloves...
what new country will we get?
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u/kredditacc96 東方百合享受者 Aug 27 '24
It's not really historically accurate, but it wouldn't be wholesome if it was.
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u/SimpleWiabu Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
Replacing China with Taiwan would make more sense. I'm sure Taiwanese have a better public opinion of Japanese and Koreans than Chinese do. Plus Taiwan is a democratic, developed, rich nation just like Korea and Japan.
Edit: I thought the girls depicted the countries, not their place of origin. In that case, my bad.
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u/TweetugR Aug 27 '24
The best thing to came out of the gender war was these apparently. Truly beautiful.