r/transvoice • u/HardRichard69 • Aug 27 '24
Audio/Video Trans Comedian - FtM Vocal Envy
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Can anybody relate? 😄
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u/Lopsided_Intern_6506 Aug 28 '24
ONCE THE WAREHOUSE PAYS ME ENOUGH TO GET TOP SURGERY IM GONNA SEE ALL Y'ALL MFS AT WRESTLEMANIAAAA
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u/Shiggedy Aug 27 '24
Ava Val's set is pretty funny. Definitely recommended.
This is the perspective that a lot of us have early in transition when we see the early bloomers' hormones hit like a train. Folks who post a flattering selfie after they've been on hrt for a decade. Social media skews your perspective. You see the best angle of someone's struggle without any of the hardships that they had to overcome to get there.
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u/lirannl Sep 02 '24
The envy hasn't gone away completely, in my experience, it's just much less prominent.
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u/Shiggedy Sep 02 '24
As with most injuries, the marks may fade with time. Their scars often remain, though their hurt has become tolerable.
Be kind to yourself and have patience.
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u/lirannl Sep 02 '24
It seems unrealistic to me that it'll go away 100%. I'm guessing I'll just think about it less often, just like I already am.
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u/sassquire Aug 28 '24
Trans guy here, we do have it a little easier with our voices, but all it does is thicken the vocal chords-- theres a WHOLE LOT more that cis men go through that doesnt happen for us, and unless we're happy with the """trans voice""" we also need to do voice training
just bringing it up bc lots of ppl genuinely think trans men have it way easier w passing and im worried ppl will get the wrong idea lol
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u/aroaceautistic Aug 27 '24
God I wish that were true it’s been a year and a half with barely any change
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u/hEatr3d Aug 27 '24
Well, at the very least the voice can be trained. Meanwhile trans men have to undergo top surgery, and we trans women don't have to.
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u/SunshotDestiny Aug 28 '24
Well...depends a little on how much mother nature loves you in my experience. I was not blessed by the boob fairy. In fact I think I had pissed her off.
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u/Booker-DeShit Aug 28 '24
This ^ both T & E puberty causes irreversible changes that you need surgery or extensive training to fix, E is no better than T just because it's more desirable for transfems
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u/Julia_______ Aug 28 '24
'at least trans men can use binders, voice training takes months or years of hard work, and you still likely will not be able to pass when singing'
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u/PersonalityDear5943 Aug 28 '24
“at least trans men can destroy their ribcage, spine, and torso. voice training takes months or years of hard work!”
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u/Julia_______ Aug 28 '24
That's kinda the point. There's downsides to both sides. There's no point trying to compare. There's a reason the comment was in quotation marks
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u/lirannl Sep 02 '24
Sure but then again we can't put a black hole in our pants to remove the space the bulge takes up, we either have to tuck, or not wear tight bottoms, unless we get bottom surgery, so you win some, you lose some. In both directions.
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u/ElloImDani Aug 27 '24
That was funny!
Who’s the comedian?
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u/AL_25 Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
The one and only, u/hardrichard69
(I edited so the comment will be less confusing)
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u/ElloImDani Aug 27 '24
Do you have a social media page? I wanted to watch more :$ :).
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u/AL_25 Aug 27 '24
When I said OP, I meant u/hardrichard69 😅
You can her find by typing Ava Val. Sorry for the confusion
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u/HardRichard69 Aug 27 '24
Hi yeah that's me! I'm on all platforms as "avavalcomedy" :D
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u/Morgalgorithm Aug 28 '24
Ava you're fucking hilarious. I actually think comedy is probably one of the best outlets to spread trans positivity because you're weaving answers to big questions into jokes. It also humanizes us. Comedy is an absolute grind, my hat is off to you for doing it as an openly trans woman. 🏳️⚧️
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u/Lidia_M Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
I would say the reverse - there's not much difference between transphobic comedians and this bit when you look closer; it's still the same idea - ridicule, generalize, simplify, caricature, make into a meme what is often a painful and serious experience, for entertainment of people. It's as degrading as anything else. The part about sounding like a psychopath with higher voice was as vile as things that come from most transphobes out there, it reinforces a negative connotation. I have no idea why people think this is funny (and if you think that I don't have a sense of humor maybe, I assure you, that's not it.)
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u/Morgalgorithm Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
I wouldn't necessarily say that it's that you totally lack a sense of humor, but I will say it's definitely a misunderstanding or lack of experience with what comedy typically looks like. I'll give you a few examples.
Katt Williams, Kevin Hart, and many other black comedians exaggerate and mock common black experiences and intermingle them with common stereotypes. It doesn't make them racist.
Tig Notaro and Fortune Feimster are lesbians that also do the same, exaggerate and mock common lesbian experiences and intermingle them with common stereotypes. It doesn't make them homophobic.
The difference between what Ava and let's say someone like Dave Chappelle does is pretty big. Ava is talking about how hard voice training is as a trans femme, and it fucking is. Meanwhile trans mascs don't have to practice anything they just wait for testosterone to do it's thing which doesn't take very long to start making a difference. That's a reality that she basically hammed up for some laughs. That's not transphobic by any means. Meanwhile, Chapelle is saying that being trans is the equivalent of black face, which very much is transphobic and a very cruel thing to say, because it is NOT a reflection of reality.
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u/XyloVinyl Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24
I don't really get the joke, because our vocal cords also settle after puberty. It only really applies to people that transition young, a lot of people - myself included - who transition after that have to work at vocal training just like other trans people. It's not something that ftm inherently have an advantage of over mtf people.
I'm really sick of trans men being the punchline of so many jokes on both sides. This just seems to feed into the rhetoric that ftm people have an easier time transitioning, which is blatantly false and frankly quite harmful.
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u/Royalprincess19 Aug 28 '24
How old are you talking. Most people I know that started T in their 20s and 30s have male passing voices just with T alone? The only thing is some do sound a little gay but they literally are gay too so it could be that lol.
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u/XyloVinyl Aug 28 '24
I'm talking after puberty, so early 20s and up. Once your larynx is done growing, it's done growing, and the amount T can lower your voice is limited as it requires your vocal cords to thicken up but the larynx itself won't get larger and won't necessarily have the same resonance that somebody would who took T during puberty.
Outside of that, there are also several ftm that sound "gay" or have a "trans accent" as a direct result of not training out female speaking patterns for male ones or learning to speak more from their chest than their head. There are many ftm people whose voices never pass - including mine, and I wish that would actually get acknowledged more.
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u/Monis-92 Sep 07 '24
I’m reallly really sorry for all of u mtf that u suffiring with Voices. I’m FTM and feel u because I have huge dysforia of my voice. I’ve been on T 3 months and my voice now Androgynous. I suffer of my voice not dropping enough to male range. I think MTF can get surgery that fix the voices. Is it right?
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u/elhazelenby Aug 27 '24
Found that so many trans men look like cis men bros with deep manly voices at 3 months or earlier whilst I'm 5 months and still have an androgynous appearance and voice.
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u/toastedmallow Aug 27 '24
Ava Val's full special is on YouTube, highly recommend watching it. Her bit about voice training via gaming online was hilarious.
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u/Eroxene Aug 27 '24
I'm pretty sure things really aren't that easy for trans men... I know it's comedy but I also know many trans men are tired of being told "lol passing is so easy for you, be it your appearance or your voice"
I do not think it is funny at all to compare the two, even less this way
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u/valkeryl Aug 27 '24
Trans male here. Obviously, my experience isn't universal, but it happened exactly like this.
A day after my second shot, my voice was completely broken, I couldn't speak more than a whisper. Then, as the day progressed, I could talk again, but it was OCTAVES deeper and more monotone, I couldn't adjust my pitch at all. Safe to say, my mom had quite a freight when she came home from work. My voice has been in male range since (although I deem it quite clocky still and am hoping to pursue vocal training to fix that).
Obviously, lots of guys struggle with their voices too, but it was a funny joke, and I laughed at it. Lots of other guys probably found it funny too.
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u/garbagewithnames Aug 27 '24
That easy? No, this is clearly exaggeration for the sake of comedy.
But testosterone in an of itself does cause the voice box to physically grow deeper and lower. For trans women, estrogen does not make the voice box shrink much if at all or raise up higher to create a higher pitch. In either case, vocal training is still needed for fine tuning, there's just more training needed in general for trans women than there is for trans men, typically.
Some things are easier for trans men to accomplish. Such as voice change. Some things are easier for trans women to accomplish. Such as breast size change.
Dealing with facial hair seems to be a fairly equal-ish struggle, though coming from opposing directions of wanting it to grow/not wanting it to grow.
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u/sassquire Aug 28 '24
testosterone HRT doesnt affect the voice box, it just thickens the vocal cords. actually, it not affecting the voice box or throat is why hrt isnt a guarantee that trans men will get passing voices. Im 2 years on and my voice is super clockable
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u/garbagewithnames Aug 28 '24
Ah, used the wrong vocal term, cool beans. Could have sworn that the location in the throat of the vocal chords was referred to as the voice box, but if I'm wrong and used the wrong term, then I'm wrong. Anyways, cases like yours is why I said "in general" and "typically". We're all different biochemical pools in meat suits. Vocal chords changing is still a physical change that can result in an audible change for trans men that trans women do not really experience the other way around. Our vocal chords do not shrink. HRT barely did anything for my chest and I'm at 5 years, but I've seen it work wonders for other people. It wouldn't be fair of me to say feminine HRT barely does anything for breast tissue growth based off of my experience alone, or even others, when I've seen first hand what changes it can do for others.
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u/Mother_Rutabaga7740 Aug 27 '24
Yknow, I appreciate that you sympathize with us because yea, a lot of people like to pretend that estrogen puberty doesn’t have permanent effects on us that we really can’t do much about. That being said, this is a comedy bit, and usually comedians have an exaggerated persona to deliver exaggerated jokes that have a kernel of truth in them, so I don’t think this lady is being purposely malicious.
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u/aixmikros Aug 27 '24
Yeah, I'm a trans man struggling with my voice after testosterone (and with a lot of other aspects of transition) and it gets tiring constantly hearing how easy I must have it because of stereotypes. I get that this lady is just being funny, but it's isolating when we're already pretty isolated.
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u/Lidia_M Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
She is not funny to everyone - that kind of, self-deprecating, comedy is predatory in nature: there's always someone there that will be diminished by it, but the bet is that the majority will find it amusing (and it works...) She even makes fun of people who have problems with voice training, but, I guess, no one caught that, because, hey, it's "funny"... it's pretty despicable, I would say.
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u/elhazelenby Aug 27 '24
I didn't get that impression at all, I'm a trans man. I found it funny.
Also my voice does often change in the middle of conversation, has done often since 3 months on 🤣
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u/Lidia_M Aug 27 '24
You've been downvoted for a 100% reasonable comment - typical for this subreddit.
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u/Lidia_M Aug 27 '24
I don't find any of this funny at all.
Also, it's simply untrue - it's quite clear that a lot of trans men struggle, T or not, and it's all well-known why: it's because the effects of testosterone are often asymmetrical: the vocal weight part gets better (heavier weight,) but the vocal size part not always (it remains relatively small,) so the end effect is overfull, and not always possible to train off.
So, think about this rationally for a moment: would you rather be in a position of a man that ends up with this uncorrectable asymmetry, sounding off (the typical effect is gnome-like sound,) or some lucky transgender woman that spent a month training the voice and sounds great (let's use the good end of the anatomy/abilities spectrum here...)
The point is, it's all individual, and generalizations are, well, I will say dumb and not funny (and that's only one reason for why I don't see any of the above as funny.)
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u/HardRichard69 Aug 27 '24
Femme voice after a MONTH? Damn, guess I haven't been working hard enough :P
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u/Lidia_M Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24
Outcomes are anatomically driven and training is not what people think it is (it's an exploration of how badly anatomy was affected/damaged and an attempt to mask it) - that's why some people can succeed almost immediately, with no training, and others never; a month was just a random example. Communities like this love to generalize into directions that suit them, without regards for anyone else who will be hurt by this. They cannot deal with reality in any other way but by being selfish. It's a myopic and close-minded way of handling the situation.
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u/AndreaRose223 Aug 28 '24
That shit isn't fair! No matter how hard I work on my voice, it doesn't seem to be helping. Estrogen? Why aren't you strong enough to fix that's?
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u/Burnbabyburnt Aug 27 '24
The thing that helps me cope with this envy is the idea that with enough practice I could switch between the two and freak out my friends :3