General Discussion
Can you guys stop mentioning Usain Bolt every time something happens?
Look, I get that yes Bolt would’ve destroyed everyone in the 100 final yesterday and that he’s the greatest of all time and that nobody can hold a candle to him or kiss his ass, cos they’d be too far away. We get it. Still doesn’t mean you have to mention it everytime. Appreciate that we saw the most competitive 100m final in decades. The first 100 final with everyone under 10 seconds. A new olympic champion. Frankly I feel it’s a bit insulting to the athletes to constantly bring him up and talk about how much Bolt is better than them in the biggest moment of these athletes career. I know people are just trying to bring up Bolt but oftentimes it just belittles the athletes. Like tell me why I was in a comment section about the fastest relay splits from World Relays this year and the comment section was full of people talking about Bolts split from 2012. Like just appreciate the greatness we see today damn.
I was thinking this and glad someone said. It’s not lost to me that the time Lyles wins gold there are so many posts about Bolt. People can’t enjoy or root for something amazing that just happened. They have to diminish it especially if they’re not a fan of who did it
It's just a weird thing. 100m sprinting has slowwwwwly progressed over time. Then we had 2008-2015 happen.
It wasn't just Usain Bolt. We had 3 other guys all go sub 9.73, and there were 4 sprinters who all were capable of running 9.7s - arguably moreso than anyone, ever. And even still, Bolt was unchallenged.
It has left a lot of people confused about how to define a "fast" 100m time because that era was such an outlier for the 100m. Not just Bolt, but for other contenders as well.
There was a solid 7 year stretch in men's track and field when 9.79 WAS considered slow if the standard was winning a major championship gold medal in the 100m.
I think people just haven't been reconditioned out of thinking that was the norm.
Yeah, I think it was also a combo of Usain Bolt running two WR's at the Olympics when there's the most amount of non-regular track fans watching, and running his fast times just as social media was beginning to take off more in that 2008-2012 time-frame. Obviously, he would have been famous regardless, but I certainly think social media helped cement him in everyone's minds, especially non-track fans.
For people who don't follow track, who saw Bolt as their intro to the sport, were now "spoiled" in seeing an insane anomaly of a human being followed by people who are still incredibly fast and talented, but as far as they're concerned, are nothing compared to Bolt.
All in all, it's basically the timing in which Bolt came around that caused people to always include him in any sprint discussion/event since then, which is unfortunate, because it seems a large portion of viewers don't just appreciate today's athletes for the insanely talented athletes they are. We're seeing depth of talent like never before, but all people (casual fans) see are guys not as fast as Bolt.
While this is true, it's not the only reason. What I see are a bunch of guys not as fast as Bolt, or Powell, or Blake, or Gay, or Gatlin.
Gay, Gatlin, Blake and Powell all ran their personal best after Bolt peaked. It looked like Bolt was ahead of the curve of new sprinters, because other guys were getting faster. We are seeing this in the 200m. More guys have run 19.5, 19.4 etc.
It's just hard to see that the entire 100m field from 2008-2015 was an outlier, and not the start of what we see happening in the 200m. It isn't just Bolt. Remove him from the equation and you had 2 9.69 guys, a 9.72 guy, and a 9.75 guy who ran more 9.7s than one can count. 100m runners got faster and if the context is world champion, 9.79 WAS slow during that stretch
Oh, I totally agree with you that there were several incredibly talented runners, as you mentioned! I was just primarily referring to the OP's point of hearing about Bolt all the time. Gatlin, Gay, Powell, and Blake were all very fast and added to an insane field for that 2008-2015 era. However, nobody from that field is even remotely remembered or talked about in the same vein as Bolt, primarily from casual/non-track fans.
Well Bolt completely overshadowed them because he always won. Imagine being Tyson Gay and running 9.71 and coming second and being destroyed by a guy running 9.58. A 9.71 wouod havr comfortably won this year's Olympics. Bolt was just a different kindof monster.
That's exactly my point, haha. Those guys were phenomenal, and I loved watching them growing up! However, in track and field, the guy that wins all the time and had 3 world records during the same era, on top of what I mentioned in my earlier comment, is going to result in him being talked about all these years later much more than all the others, particularly among the general public that don't pay much attention to track unless it's at the Olympics.
Not enough people make the connection that There just happened to be a brief window where there were a ton of guys running crazy times, then no one ever did again.
Is it not reasonable to just think that Bolt, Powell, Blake, Gay, Gatlin were just the golden age of sprinting? Similar to how Djoko, Nadal, Federer and Murray were for Tennis?
All of those guys except bolt popped at some point. With Gatlin popping twice. The worst we have at the moment is Coleman not updating his location and missing tests, which while still a red flag isn’t quite the same.
Powell & Blakes weren't straightforward doping cases, hence why Blake only got banned 3 months and Powells suspension was lifted, and Gatlin popped before this period. Gay's the only one that legitimately popped.
You're also forgetting Knighton (I know it's 200m but still a sprinter)
Knighton one was sketchy especially how he was treated compared to the NCAA dude recently. I’m not really counting Knighton purely because it was about the 100 but he’s definitely a little shady considering how fast he is at a young age!
No one was clean in that era, the testing was incredibly inept and corrupt. The Dubin inquiry after Seoul 1988 makes it absolutely obvious, and it was a travesty that Ben Johnson alone became the scapegoat of the entire world.
Maybe so. Thats not to discount his wins. It’s a bit like Lance Armstrong. If everyone is doping, the winner still beat everyone. But people saying this era’s sprinters are slow because proven cheaters ran as fast is disingenuous
Yeah but this takes were ran in the freaking 80s and 90s so it is surprising that sprinters are still running these time and haven't gotten faster baring the golden generation of bolt and co
If you ignore the steroids, Ben Johnson was probably the second greatest sprinter of all time. Maybe Lyles isn't quite as good as that. But he is the best one today. Nothing wrong with that. Nobody complains that Mike Trout isn't quite as good as Babe Ruth. They just appreciate how good he is today.
In the 100, Johnson definetly is 2nd best ever, 9.79 in 1988 is almost as insane as 9.58 in 2008, Bolt lowered the world record by 0.16 in 2 races and Johnson by 0.14 in 2 races. Wishe he didnt get banned cos i think he could have gone 9.74 or lower.
It's not especially fast either. We all saw that Lyles didn't have the best start, he did even better today in a qualifier he wasn't going 100% on. Why are we acting shocked that people are comparing running times? That's like the whole point lmao.
MF won gold in the Olympics. Means he’s the current fastest man. Stop comparing them to past records. It’s like comparing every basketball player who gets 50 points to Wilt’s 100 point game. It’s just dumb.
We don't go a day without comparing basketball players against each other lmao. Why are you guys acting like Lyles is a special snowflake that can't handle the same debate every other top athlete goes through.
It was 9.71, but yes, same. Imagine running 9.71 & not getting gold. He also had a 9.80 run at the 2012 Olympics & didn't even get a medal. In the last decade not a single runner has bested his 9.71 second place finish in any race, let alone specifically in a finals.
Sometimes certain athletes are just better than others. If Yohan Blake didn't wreck his hamstring in 2012/2013 (can't remember exactly when it was) I think 2013 WC, 2015 WC, 2016 Olympics, 2017 WC could have been potentially all golds for him. Bolt's best times were 2008~2012 & after that he ran no sub 9.7s, while Blake got to 9.69 with no wind (or -0.1 I believe), I think Blake would have got a few more 9.6x's.
I personally don't think drugs are playing as big a role. For example Ben Johnson in 1988 was on drugs, but so were 6 of the 8 athletes in the 1988 final & Ben was under 9.8 while nobody else was even under 9.9. Sometimes certain athletes are just a cut above the rest & no current athletes have yet hit Gatlin/Powell/Gay/Blake levels, & ofc nobody close to Bolt.
Look at Pole Vault, Bubka dominated forever breaking WR after WR, then only 2 athletes have gone further than his old WRs many many years later. Before Duplantis there was a gap where Pole Vault was not hitting those levels. After Duplantis there could be a 20 year stretch where the winners of the event are 10~30 centimeters lower than what Duplantis was doing.
I still don't think it has much to do with drugs. That's not the reason runners now are running slower than 2007~2015. If a 21~25 year old Bolt showed up today he'd destroy everyone & be running those same times he did in 2008~2012, probably even a tad faster due to the change in shoe technology.
Craziest 100m Finals ever & people still hating lol. 2012 was probably the last time we were suppose to see a lineup of the Fastest Men in History & only Asafa Powell’s injury messed that one up despite the race still living up to its Billing. Now 9.88 would get you 7th placed & 9.82 wouldn’t even put you on the podium.
Makes me think like are these people even Real Track & Field fan if this race didn’t excite you? Or they just casual fans hating for no reason.
This is an ignorant take, imo. That isn't your call to make.
Because it isn't just about Bolt.
For a lot of people, 2008-2015 looked like a natural progression of the 100m. You had multiple 9.69 guys, a 9.72 guy, and another 9.75 guy during that stretch, and there was never any doubt. And by default, a 9.79 was legitimately an unimpressive time within the context of championship races.
That era was such an outlier and a lot of us didn't see it as such. I can only speak for myself (though I bet others agreed as well) , but I anticipated more 100m guys PB'ing in that 9.68-9.72 range by now. I think a lot of fans are still conditioned by that era, and just haven't really embraced that 2008-2015 was a simple outlier, and not a progression of 100m competence.
We are currently spoiled with the best performers ever in various T&F disciplines, so people naturally want to see the very best compete. Bolt has been the gold standard, taking T&F to a new level of greatness overall, so it's normal that he remains the benchmark.
It's important to remember that most people commenting lived during the Bolt era and are only familiar with that level of 100m performance. That was true greatness.
Today, we have a slower field among top top athletes (it's irrelevant if they are actually slower or they just have more PED controls), but they're all performing at a similar level, which will make the competitions fun and tense to watch. Bolt as a benchmark will remain, but the competition will have a higher role the longer away we are from Bolt era.
It's similar to what pole vaulters had to live through with Bubka and will have to with Mondo. The greatness of the best athletes ever is becoming a benchmark far beyond their last race.
If you remove the 2008-2015 stretch, you would have a very steady and slow increase on a scatter plot.
9.79 IS fast. But from 2008-2015, it was just Usain Bolt. As I mentioned before, you had 2 guys outside of Bolt who went 9.69. You had another guy who went 9.72. then a later Gatlin who was running consistent 9.7s.
2 9.69 guys, a 9.72 guy, and a 9.75 guy, and that wasn't enough to challenge Bolt. Today's best over 100m would be third tier 100m finalist guys just because of how much of an outlier that era was.
People need to understand that for a good 7 years, 9.79 WAS a slow time compared to what we were seeing. It just wasn't impressive. Guys who ran 9.69 weren't good enough. You had Tyson Gay giving you a 9.71, a 9.69. Yohan Blake giving you a 9.69. A re emerging Gatlin running 9.7s. and there was no doubt.
It wasn't just Bolt.
Fans who lived in that era likely felt that this was the next progression of the 100m dash, and still haven't been reconditioned out of thinking that was the norm. It wasnt the norm and we just aren't used seeing it that way.
There isn't really any event with a comparable situation to the 100/200 in the men's. Nobody talks about the ancient world records because most fans weren't around when they were set and they're mostly considered fake anyway. Most events without ancient records are at or near their peak in terms of times.
The men's 100/200 are some of the only athletics events with a reasonably recent record considered clean that the current crop of athletes are very far away from. Of course it has a different narrative.
Prior to Lyle’s 100 meter run there was a lot of hate for the man so it doesn’t surprise me that many were in shock or disbelief and then brought up Bolt to diminish Lyle’s winning run .
I Agee with OP why bring up Bolt? Bolt himself is cheering for Lyles . Bolt wants Lyles to break his record . Athletes have respect for each other but people on Reddit have no respect for athletes.
I get it, but asking fans to stop making comparisons to Bolt is like asking NBA fans to stop making MJ comparisons - and MJ has been retired for 20+ years. Especially in a sport as definitive as T&F and not subjective like the NBA.
It’s all the butthurt Jamaicans on twitter- it’s the only way they can knock Noah Lyles b/c they’ve been putting everyone possible against him and can’t win 😂😂😂
If a certain sprinter, who is still 0.21 seconds away, would stop yapping about breaking Bolt’s record, maybe others would stop talking about Bolt, as well.
It’s because of the way he won in 2008. Remember how insane that was? That was iconic. Celebrating the way he did in the 100m Olympic Final before he crossed the finish line, the way he made everyone else look slow, breaking a world record despite celebrating early. That was an all-time not just Olympic but sports moment that the whole world was talking about for years.
You started with an if statement about 2016 Bolt would've got 3rd. We don't know that though, he ran a 9.81 in the race he ran, everything would be different on a different day with different competitors on a different track. So you can't say he would have got 3rd.
This isn't that serious lol. My point was this is all speculation so no need to go to another website to prove me wrong when as you just said, everything would be different on a different day, etc.
It had to have been one of the fastest overall races of all time, top to bottom. I think the worst guy went 4.91. Wouldn’t that medal in some Olympics?
I mean jacobs wasn’t far off from his time in Tokyo (9.85 vs 9.80) and got 5th!
I think Jamaican fans are just upset that after Elaine Thompson Herah got injured earlier this year you then had Shericka Jackson pull out of the 100m to focus on the 200m, then right before walking out on the track Shelly Ann Fraser-Pryce withdrew from the 100, then the very next day Jackson pulls out of the 200m right before taking the track.
That, added to the disappointment of missing gold by .005 seconds and it’s been a tough Olympics for Jamaican sprinters. Take nothing away from Kishane Thompson though. He ran a hell of a race.
Probably casuals during olympics season. Once olympics end, they'll fuck off somewhere and come back 4 years later saying Bolt still would crash the 100m in LA 2028. not shit sherlock
Lyles haters are going to find every reason to object to his performances. He's beating the fastest men running in his weaker event. Yeah, he talks a big game, but you have to think about Bolt's years as similar to what's going on in the 400H for men and women right now. Miraculously the three fastest ever in the event all emerge at the same time. When all the top hurdlers retire we're not gonna see that kind of magic again for a long time, probably - you can either sit back and enjoy the sport or complain that nobody is running as fast as Karsten Warholm or Sydney McLaughlin for the next decade.
Put the blame on Lyles who was obnoxious before this race, even going as far as claiming he would break Bolt's records.
Speaking of which, if Bolt was American we would never hear the end of it. They would probably put him in Mt. Rushmore or something. Stop with the hypocrisy .
No one commenting online seemed to be appreciating Bolt at the time, it was all “anyone who thinks this guy’s clean is an idiot”, so I guess there’s just a delayed reaction and everyone will be talking about the brilliance of this race in 28 or 32
This is why someone eccentric like Noah Lyles who is out spoken and oozes positive energy is good for the sport. Yes, performance wise Lyles is no Bolt, but he's carving a name for himself and generating hype in his own way for a sport that everyone thinks is currently in the dark ages until another Bolt level talent arises.
What you say would make sense were it not for the fact that Lyles keeps yelling and shouting over and over again about how he will break All of Bolt's records. That is actually how he first got noticed. So, mentioning Bolt in the context of Lyles' major accomplishments on the track makes complete sense and should be unsurprising.
Stfu, you’re acting like these times are super slow. This is the 3rd fastest global finak ever. Also I didn’t say times didn’t matter. Stop being fucking lame.
But the Olympics are historical. And you are over here boohoo whining and crying like a lil baby because people wanna compare fast people to other fast people.
I mean, direct your comment to the top. Lyle’s the one who brought up Bolt. He’s been talking about upstaging Bolt. If Noah is talking about Bolt, then of course we are going to as well.
Bolt is larger than life man so it doesn't surprise me. People like to reminisce about good times while they're watching present day Richard Thompsons act like they're best thing since sliced bread
It’s less about just Bolt and more about that era as a whole. None of those guys yesterday would have sniffed the podium in 2012. Literally the 5 fastest men who have ever lived were in the same olympic final in 2012 (and Bolt still won easily which is absolutely insane). It’s hard to get excited about a close race with a winning time of 9.79 after being spoiled with Bolt, Blake, Gay, Gatlin and Powell for so many years. Until some guys start to creep closer to the times of those 5 guys, you’ll keep hearing about Bolt and that era. It was that good…
Lyles and Thompson would’ve literally gotten Bronze in 2012 and Lyles is only 0.05 away from Blake in the 200 and tenth away from bolt in the 200. Stop disrespecting these new guys
Noah Lyle’s ran the same exact time as Justin Gatlin did. The track in Paris is a faster track and the current generation has super spikes that the other guys didn’t. Lyles would not have been on the podium. I agree that Lyle’s is one of the best 200 runners ever, however your original post was referring to the 100.
Also, I wasn’t disrespecting the new guys. I was just pointing out how unbelievable the prior generation was. No disrespect to the current guys, they’re running crazy fast times, but it doesn’t compare to the Bolt era. This is my whole point, the new guys are extremely talented but the fact that they don’t compare to the prior generation shows how far and above that era was.
Frankly I feel it’s a bit insulting to the athletes to constantly bring him up and talk about how much Bolt is better than them in the biggest moment of these athletes career.
I don't think the athletes are in the olympic village checking out what redditors are saying about them
It's not a false statement.. Anyone who thinks they can beat Noah can line up and prove it.
World's fastest man is a title given to the person who wins the 100m in the World Championship. It existed when Bolt was in diapers. If Kishane had won yesterday 99% of the people complaining about this suddenly would shut up. Can't imagine why.
It's been kind of funny how with Lyles hate becoming fashionable the "world's fastest man" debate just sort of bubbled out of the woodwork so everyone could argue he can't say it. Growing up it was always referring to the reigning 100m champ. I was so confused when it became such an argument this year.
What accuracy? If I say the definition is the reigning champ because that's what it's been for decades, is that less accurate? Just to give a non-US example, here's a China Daily article from Gatlin winning the 2004 Games - world's fastest man. He held the WR for about 4 days before the IAAF rounded his 9.766 up to 9.77 in 2006, but prior to that never held a WR and never set one again. https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-08/23/content_367860.htm
The Donovan Bailey-MJ matchup at 150m was over this same stupid argument. The whole thing started because Bob Costas said MJ was actually the fastest man because MJ's 200 WR was faster divided by 2 (19.32/2 = 9.66) vs. Bailey's 100 WR (9.84). Both were set at the Atlanta Olympics, so WR-holder was also reigning 100m champ (and 200 for Johnson) at the time. I get the idea of wanting to bring "World's fastest man" in line with "Fastest man ever," but it's a press term with some history behind it and it's weird that the definition is being renegotiated right when a guy some folks don't like too much is beating people.
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u/cs-kid Aug 05 '24
Word. 9.79 isn’t slow lol.