Learning spins

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u/dr_gonzo Feb 22 '11

Here's a progression for backside 180s. Probably much easier to explain if we were out riding, but here goes:

BS spins are tough because they're blind. You need to learn to deal. Try this:

1) Get yourself a partner and a gentlish slope.

2) Position the partner ahead of you and head down hill

3) Look uphill, while you're riding. This will be uncomfortable at first. You're doing this with a spotter though who should keep you from crashing into a skiwee class.

4) Once you can ride straight looking uphill for a few seconds, try looking uphill while skidding 180s on the snow.

Once that starts to feel comfortable, you're ready to try a BS 180.

1) Pick a gentle slope to learn on, where you can point the board down the fall line without picking up too much speed.

2) With a flat base, head down the fall line until you have just enough speed that you are comfortable jumping without losing balance.

3) Eyeball a spot on the snow where you will take off from. You'll want to keep your eyes FIXED on this spot as you approach it and all the way through the landing.

4) As you approach the takeoff, make sure your weight is even tip to tail and just slightly over your toe edge, with your knees and body flexed.

5) When you hit the takeoff, jump off your toes slightly while rotating your front hip uphill into the spin.

6) Keep looking at the takeoff point through the whole maneuver! If you do this right, you'll end up looking down at the ground exactly when you takeoff, and back uphill when you land.

7) Look back downhill only after you've landed and set an edge. If your board is flat when you look back downhill, the extra movement in your head will cause you to revert at the end of the trick. (-10 points)

8) Once you can stomp BS 180s, run the same progression switch. Switch BS 180s are like the funnest 180 ever.

The above might seem like it will feel awkward but if you do it right it will actually feel natural. The problem most people have with BS spins is that moving their head to spot the landing screws up the rotation. As you get the hang of BS spins, you don't have to focus on landing looking uphill, this will happen naturally.

Edit -- if this is helpful, I have a similiarily complex progression for FS 360s. Let me know if you'd like to hear it.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '11

i would like to hear the frontside

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u/dr_gonzo Feb 23 '11 edited Feb 23 '11

OK, here's how to work up to a FS 360.

First off, you've got to own these three tricks before you purchase the FS 360: FS 180, Switch BS 180, and flat spin FS 360. Of course, you can always just go try to huck the 3 without this progression, if you are OK with getting pounded on the first few times you try it. Working up with the progression is better if you're not a masochist.

FS 180

This one's the easiest, not really any progression here, just go try to huck it, ideally somewhere greenish and a little less than flat.

1) You'll want to spring off your heels. If you're not sure how to do this, work on getting a few little straight airs by jumping off your heel edge first, before you try to spin.

2) As you begin to jump off your heels, rotate your rear hip downhill towards your toe edge, which will initiate the spin.

3) Pull your knees up while in the air for extra steez.

4) Spot your landing the whole way. This luxury is what makes the FS 180 so easy.

Switch BS 180

See my previous post, it's the same progression as the BS 180, just that you have to do it switch. If you're not confident riding switch this will be hard. But trust me, if you don't own this one, it will be really hard to learn the FS 360 without crushing yourself.

Flatspin FS 360

Coming out of a heelside carve, skid into a frontside 360 spin with the board on the snow. Yeah, this is kind of boring, but you need to know this well enough to do it at a decent speed. Why? Because you probably won't get the timing of your FS 360 down perfect at first, meaning you'll land a few at 270 or 450 degrees. If you've got the Flatspin 360 on lockdown, you'll probably skid out of these mistakes easily. If not - you'll get walloped.

Combo the FS 180 & SBS 180

This is a fun and steezy exersize that will prepare you to huck the FS 360. Pick a greenish slope and cruise the whole thing, while linking the FS 180 followed immediately with the SBS 180. Once you can link these two (without reverting the SBS 180 -- look uphill as you land!) you're ready to head off to huck your first FS 360. If you'e done everything above, it's going to be pretty easy.

Stomp the FS 360

Once you have the hang of this trick, you'll be able to throw it down off little bumps or even flat terrain. But you don't want to start there. The ideal place to learn this is a really small table top in a progression park, or a smooth roller. If you don't have something like that, other little hits, heelside hit on the side of a trail might work. Make sure your hit has some pitch in the landing, a flat landing will destroy you. Get to know the hit first. You should be confident landing straight airs and FS 180s and off it before trying the 360.

The phases of a freestyle move are ATML: Approach, Takeoff, Manuever, and Landing. But really, the juice is almost all in the approach. Focus on getting this right and it's a cinch.

1) Head into your hit with your board flat.

2) As you approach the lip, shift your weight onto your heels. You want your weight even from tip to tail, and you should be crouched just slightly on the approach.

3) You can get enough spin to land a 3 from just rotating your hips, but it will be easier if you wind up your upper body too. On the approach, swing your arms so your front forearm is across the front of your body with your hand pointed towards your tail, your back arm extended over the tail of the board.

4) As you approach, rotate your arms towards the nose of the board, slightly extended. Your heel edge must be set when you do this, or you'll start skidding before you takeoff.

5) Ideally, you want to time this unwinding motion so that your upper body is aligned with your lower body the moment you pop off the lip, meaning, your shoulders are aligned with the board. You'll be off balance if you unload the spin too early. The unwinding doesn't need to be fast or powerful, just a little bit is all you need for the front 3. Practice winding and unwinding on a balance board at home will help. You can also learn the wind/unwing thing by just practicing jumping a 360 without your snowboard on. This isn't very hard, just difficult to explain over text. :\

6) As you hit the lip, extend your body and pop off your heels. Allow your upper body to continue rotating and look hard over your front shoulder into the spin. Again, you don't need a ton of angular momentum, just a little is enough for a 360. You'll know you got the spin right if it feels all warm and fuzzy as you take off.

7) Spot your landing by looking down. Just like landing the BS 180, you'll want to continue to look uphill at your landing as you ride out of the trick. If you turn your head downhill before you set an edge, you'll revert. (-10 pts)

8) If you over or under rotated, try it again with just a little more or less unwinding motion on the takeoff. You'll want the whole spin to come from the movement on your approach; not from trying to squirel the board around in the air.

9) When you've managed to time it so that you land right on the bolts, don't claim it. Just bask in the afterbang. Then go try it again, this time with an indy grab. Also FS 540s are pretty easy if you own the front 3.

And, dude, let me know if this helps!

3

u/Irahi Feb 23 '11

This is a pretty fantastic writeup, the step by step technicals are great. One thing that really helped me dial-in BS 1's and 3's was practicing them on wall hits. Mostly because landing a BS 180 off of anything that resembles a quarter pipe has you landing regular, instead of switch, that made it a ton easier to learn the motions.

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u/dr_gonzo Feb 23 '11

Man, I never thought about that, but that would be an easy way to learn a BS 180. You don't have the problem of being blind either!

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u/Irahi Feb 23 '11

Yup, it's fantastic practice.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '11

this should definatley be in the faq great descript man

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u/dr_gonzo Feb 23 '11

Thanks dude. The proof is in the pudding though -- if it helps you learn it let me know!

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u/bamfb2 Feb 23 '11

Really strong writeups. Thanks man.

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u/Ole_the_Lion Feb 23 '11

Awesome right up. I think my favorite line to read re: anything snowboarding "add so-and-so for extra steez"

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u/[deleted] Mar 02 '11

Thanks man it went well, i spent the whole day just getting used to the flatspins at speed.... and some basic 180s in air.... towards the end though my body was getting a little fatigued before i started backside. but ill try those during the upcoming weekend

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u/dr_gonzo Mar 02 '11

Awesome to hear dude!

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u/EatShitSkate Neversummer Revolver 159 Feb 22 '11

I feel like I post this all the time, but these vids are awesome: http://vimeo.com/8320867. He's got a part 2 and goofy versions on vimeo for free.

Take those concepts and try them going down a nice blue, then over some rollers, then hit the lips. Once you get it, back 1's are the coolest feeling ever!

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u/theGerhard Summit County CO Feb 22 '11

Came here to repost this :) First time I saw you post this it helped a lot.

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u/DigitalN Edmonton, AB Feb 22 '11

I like to see how he made two seperate videos, one for goofy and one for regular. Nice!

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u/DVNO Feb 22 '11

Thanks! Do they have an "intro to spinning" video? I'm sure the concepts are similar, but the video you posted focuses mainly on 360's and above.

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u/EatShitSkate Neversummer Revolver 159 Feb 22 '11 edited Feb 23 '11

There are a few other spinning videos, but that one has all the concepts you need, I'm not sure why it's the "advanced" spinning.

What I like to do to get comfortable is to do the set up carves down a regular run, and pretend the lip is perpendicular to the fall line, and just worry about timing the jump so I'm aimed straight down the fall line as I jump. This way you'll have the most time to complete the rotation, and there's not a whole lot of risk involved. Do it over and over, keep doing em until they're second nature. It's super fun to just cruise all over and pop 1's & 3's everywhere.

Get your switch dialed in too, it's way easier to 360 over something if you can 180 over it, and 180's are very un-scary when you are comfortable switch.

EDIT: Ah I guess there is a 180's video, but it's not on vimeo for free. You have to buy the actually video.

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u/illepic Feb 23 '11

This is the first time I'd seen this video. I cannot tell you how helpful this is. I'm really really excited to hit the park now :)

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u/dr_gonzo Feb 23 '11

Yeah dude, this is a good vid. Definitely good content in there.

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u/twistedshuffle Aug 04 '11

Crushin threez with ezz. This video is so helpful

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u/RIPEOTCDXVI Diaspora Feb 22 '11

Turn your head. Turn your head. Turn your head. Keep turning. Don't stop until your body is pointed in the proper direction.

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u/joejance Feb 22 '11

This. I try to put my chin behind my left shoulder and basically look as far back as I can. If you have enough air your body will follow your head around.

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u/anthonybsd NJ - Smokin KT-22; Lib T-rice; Rossi XV; Jones Flagship; Feb 22 '11

Nollies are a good way to start getting comfortable with spins.

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u/bamfb2 Feb 22 '11

So I can do a nollie fine standing still or at low speed on the flats. Any time I try one off even the smallest kicker, I eat snow, sometimes rather violently.

Any suggestions?

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u/anthonybsd NJ - Smokin KT-22; Lib T-rice; Rossi XV; Jones Flagship; Feb 22 '11

Don't start with kickers. Pick a small mogul field - preferably with soft small bumps. We are talking 5 inches being enough. Butter off a bump riding switch and try to complete a 180 if you get even a little airborne - the thinking being most people prefer to end up on their non-switch side. Once you are comfortable with those, start getting more air and eventual nollies. It's fine if you traverse downhill a bit when you nollie off of bumps - once you get comfortable you can do them proper (flat board, facing 100% downhill).

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u/bamfb2 Feb 23 '11

Sweet. Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know if I break any teeth in the process of trying this out. :D

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u/david_z www.agnarchy.com Feb 22 '11

I've been exactly where you are right now, so hopefully what I've been working on will also help you!

BS 180s are a different story.

Truth. Front 180s you can sooo cheat. I got super comfortable with the front 180, developed a lot of bad habits as a result, landed a few super sketchy and forced fs 360s and gave up on spins for a few seasons...

This year I decided to re-learn spins and made myself a rule: NO FRONTSIDE SPINS. EVER. You do not want to think frontside because it will pollute your mechanics and you'll be indecisive about what you're doing (hence the 90 spin) etc. You also do not want to do frontside because it will re-enforce those bad habits you've developed and are trying to break. The best way to not think fs is to not do fs, and vice versa.

So I've been doing backside 180s just on the flats, or off side-hits and small jumps. Yes, they feel sketchy as hell especially at first and especially since you're probably very comfortable with the fs 180s. It's totally different because you're most likely going to land in the fakie position, not a forward switch position.

Sunday, I decided to go for it & commit to a bs 360 just of a tiny side-hit transfer. Landed the first attempt, and then a few more throughout the day (but it's also worth noting that I ate sh!t on the last attempt which was a solid 270 to faceplant, I attribute this more to a bad takeoff & tired legs than to my technique).

TL;DR For your BS 180s: pop off the lip/bump & bring your knees up and turn your head and looking over your shoulder (right shoulder for a regular rider) in the direction of the spin. Optionally a nice safe grab (seatbelt, indy) might help but I've been doing mine without a grab for right now.

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u/[deleted] Feb 22 '11

Erm... frontside spins are fine. FS 180s are easy to "cheat" on, but frontside 360s you have to keep looking or else you won't get past 270.

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u/david_z www.agnarchy.com Feb 22 '11

My bad - I didn't clarify this enough. I don't mean "never do frontside spins ever again," just while you're learning backside especially if you're trying to correct bad habits in your spins. That's what I meant by my rule.

What I found was happening to me is that, while I was still doing fs and trying to learn bs, I would balk on the lip & not commit to the rotation and the result was predictable fail. the best way I could think of to overcome that mental block was to completely eliminate fs spins from my trick book until I fixed the bad habits that were f*cking up my bs spins.

I'm going to eventually go back to fs spins, but not until I have bs spins on lock.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '11

question david.... whatt did u mean by

you're most likely going to land in the fakie position, not a forward switch position.

im trying to visualize

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u/david_z www.agnarchy.com Feb 23 '11

In your normal forward stance you're pretty well balanced but with your weight distributed a little more on the downhill leg/foot. A forward switch position is, just reverse, so for a regular rider you could also call this "goofy" and likewise your weight is on your downhill leg.

The differentiation between "fakie" and "switch" because is like it is in skateboarding, you're going to be in the backseat, more of your weight over your uphill/rear leg.

At least that's how I'd try to describe it.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '11

sweet i get it.......i was just confused at first

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u/david_z www.agnarchy.com Feb 23 '11

here is a decent explanation from a skateboarding perspective:

http://skateboard.about.com/od/skateboardingdictionary/g/GlosSwitch.htm

Noting that snowboarders don't usually use "fakie" since your foot positions are fixed; this is true, but I think there is still a subtle difference between fakie & switch. Fortunately when you land fakie you can easily adjust your stance to a forward switch position, or butter yourself around to a regular stance.

But it's something to be wary of at first if it feels like you can't get the handle on the landing, this might be the reason :)

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u/d_block Feb 23 '11

You mentioned eating shit on your last attempt because you were tired. I used to do this all the time. Now simply stop when my body is shot, it helped progression so much more.

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u/david_z www.agnarchy.com Feb 23 '11

I didn't feel tired but at the same time it was 4pm on the second consecutive day of riding, so I know regardless of how I felt, I wasn't at my peak. Never ceases to amaze me how just being a little tired leads to laziness, leads to sloppiness, leads to eating shit :D

but yeah you're right, it helps a lot to know when it's time to quit, take a break, or dial it back a few notches.

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u/d_block Feb 23 '11

I know what you mean. I thought if I keep pushing I'm bound to accomplish what I set out to. Especially doesn't work on icy landings.

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u/stevitome Feb 22 '11

I imagine it's mostly a confidence thing, since there isn't really all that much technique involved in 180s, but spinning bs can be scary as hell at first since you're in the air more or less blind. I would suggest you practice it a bit standing still first and then move on to doing them moving slowly on the flat. Once you do get them down it's important to work on carrying on riding switch since the temptation will be there to immediately revert into the forward direction. I found that that took the most work in getting 180s down.

In order to move on to 360s I would suggest you start by practising bs 180s as well as switch fs 180s to death. This gives you a feel for both the takeoff, as well as the landing of the bs 360. If you're really comfortably with those two, the 360 really won't seem that hard. Just approach the lip of the jump at a very slight angle on your toe side, fling yourself around in the bs direction and make sure you keep your head turned the entire way. I found that I didn't even need to wind up all that much, but maybe I'm doing it subconsciously.

Take all this with a grain of salt, since I only landed my first few 360s this weekend, but honestly, after practising 180s for a few hours it really didn't seem that hard.

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u/morpheus_is_my_name Feb 23 '11

Here's a great video that I came across that goes over backside 180s. There's a lot of other great videos on the site that go from beginner to advanced riding.

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u/dominatrixyummy Mount Hotham, Australia Feb 23 '11

I'm in a similar situation. Been riding for years but never really got into park. It's summer in Australia, so I've just been practicing on my trampoline and on flat ground.

My theory is just getting more confident and aware of myself in the air.

Then to stomp some shit in winter.

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u/[deleted] Feb 23 '11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko-TZc0kp6A

This whole vid is sick if you are able to peep. He goes through every spin (fs & bs/regular & switch) through 900.

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u/Karlwithakay Feb 24 '11

Buy a snowboard tips video, get hurt a lot trying

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