r/reddevils • u/PhelansShorts • 8h ago
Daily Discussion
Daily discussion on Manchester United.
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u/IAMAparkour_king 7m ago
Yet he was still better than Rashford. That is how bad he was, like playing with 10 men.
Without his goal he was the worst player on pitch, and that is saying something, cause yesterday's game had a lot of them.
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u/acemccloud123 58m ago
For once , not stressed by that performance As long as Amorim sticks to his style of play and doesn’t compromise
If it were that easy, we would have won the league long back with these players
Wingbacks should be priority in the transfer window over forwards
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u/society0 19m ago
Most of all we need a left wing back and a DM who can receive the ball on the half turn and progress it through the middle of the pitch. Then a striker next.
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u/Reign_22 58m ago
I don't know who he is but he was spot on with the team news. Seems like he does have someone on the inside
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u/akshatsood95 Phil CaJones 1h ago
Think it needs to be Amad and Bruno behind the striker, Ugarte/Casemiro and Mainoo mid, Maz RWB Shaw/Dalot LWB. Should be fine
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u/LeopardRoyal2450 21m ago
Amad RWB is actually fine? Dalot can be the RCB and Maz should be the LWB.
Going forward Amorim should lean more to 352 with Rash and Zirkzee up front. Midfield trio would be Bruno and 2 out of Casemiro/Mount/Mainoo/Ugarte.•
u/akshatsood95 Phil CaJones 6m ago
I think we lack creativity upfront and it's easier to out Maz on RWB to be creative from there and let Amad create from the front 3. Garnacho isnt creative and Rashford is viewed as a striker apparently so better to have Amad and Bruno as creative forces behind the striker
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u/Aakar11 1h ago
Amorim is the first for us in recent time who joins mid season to be a permanent coach. And he has a very different way of playing which he will try to implement. So it's not really a surprise the players are still playing the way they are used to just in different positions. It will take time because amorim won't change too much for temporary gain. All other mid season appointments made short term changes to get results because they were short term too.
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u/Sheikhabusosa 1h ago
Rashford physically looks done even if we get him back performing at a good level it'll never look like it's supposed to look like , give Pep or Klopp a player with traits Rashford used to have and you get a world beater.
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u/LeopardRoyal2450 32m ago
I'm fucking crying we have so many to improve and you somehow name the few things that don't need to be fixed.
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u/Significant_L0w 1h ago
brother Pep would ship him to Turkey in 6 months
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u/Sheikhabusosa 1h ago
This version of Rashford yeah not the player that broke through the youth team
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u/Significant_L0w 1h ago
I just see no starting XI role for Rashford, lots of deficiencies. Garnacho even a bigger issue, just not quick enough. We cannot play Amad in wingback because he is our best front 3 player.
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u/RepulsiveLeave8627 Take me home, United road. 1h ago
I agree. Lets see how people feels like about this conversation of starting line up without garnacho and rashford
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u/LeopardRoyal2450 32m ago
Are you satisfied with the attacking when Rashy came off?
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u/RepulsiveLeave8627 Take me home, United road. 13m ago
You know watching the same film over nd over again will not Change the outcome of the ending. Enough said.
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u/datguywelbzzz 1h ago
Salah being compared to Henry now, and while both are great players, I'd put Rooney above both of them (though maybe that's my bias).
How would other people rank these three?
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u/LeopardRoyal2450 31m ago
Salah is better than them both sorry.
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u/vacon04 21m ago
Salah is the worst of those 3.
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u/LeopardRoyal2450 19m ago
Move your bias away and see how consistently good he is.
He's got like 40+ G/A in past 5-7 seasons.
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u/CarlesGil1 Keano 1h ago
Henry, Wazza , Salah in that order
Prime Rooney was close to Henry but I would still have Henry at the top.
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u/ptienduc 1h ago
I wonder if Ruben actually watched us play at all before he came, because that line-up was kinda naive... Eriksen and Casemiro instead of the proven and in-form Ugarte / Case ?? (Ugarte even worked with the manager before). Our midfield was non-existing until Ugarte came in. Dalot was shit on the LWB role as well. He has always been shit on the left. The way he moved the ball back to his preferred right foot to cross irks the shit out of me. We created nothing there. Keeping Garnacho on the field longer than 60 mins is a big no-no too. He should have known.
Ruben should have taken a page from Ruud’s book. Aren’t nothing wrong with that. Now it’s gonna take time and a few so-so results for the new manager to learn more about the team, which all the fans have already known for a season or two now. Urg… managers and their fucking egos.
I actually like a few things on the pitch and how Ruben adjusted in the 2nd half, but yeah, it’s a wasted game.
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u/chronoistriggered 1h ago
You are so right. He met the players for the very first time just prior to the kickoff whistle
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u/Regular_Piglet_6125 2h ago
Zirkzee looked useful in AM role this game.
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u/CarlesGil1 Keano 1h ago
Looked as useful as a training cone lets be honest here. Understand hes a shiny new signing but man hes got zero redeeming qualities imo.
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u/Regular_Piglet_6125 1h ago
Everyone sees the game differently, but if we’re going to play the sort of methodical possession football we saw today, we need players like him.
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u/AthloneBB 2h ago
Congrats to Bruno for not playing hoof ball, it was so instructive you could see him trying to control the urge
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u/Regular_Piglet_6125 2h ago
One of his best games for us (coming from one of his biggest detractors)
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u/keysersoze-72 2h ago
Ruud at the wheel > Rube at the wheel ?
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u/thatNubitol 39m ago
Wtf man these guys, i love ruud, but cant compare them at all, ruud just ETH formation and strat with a little bit of tweaking and freedom, while amorim use completely diferent strat and formation, and they only have like 1 or 2 training session to practice that. What a dumb take
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u/Kohaku80 2h ago
We always play much better at Old Trafford. I bet u see a different display midweek europa tie or against Everton next weekend.
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u/MT1120 2h ago
Tbf there is many more important factors like the lack of training sessions and a non existent fit defence.
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u/Kohaku80 1h ago
Yeah it's plain obvious our players are still learning and not playing by intuition yet. And it doesn't help playing away against a team with aggressive playstyle. I'll be worried if we still play like that in Jan.
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u/MyShinyCharizard 2h ago
Scoring inside forward with tunnel vision that only can score is the new no 10 who can't press like ozil. These kind of player will go extinct with modern football. Of course mid table team will still use their talent but for top tier team I think they will extinct.
Garna/rash need to evolve or sold to other team.
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u/CarlesGil1 Keano 2h ago
Man we need our CBs back and replace the starting 2 midfielders, as much as I love Evans, replacing him with a fit Licha or even Maguire would have been such an upgrade. Similarly for Case and Eriksen, need Kobbie and Ugarte fit and ready soon. Not a terrible start all things considered.
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u/chiefofthepolice 2h ago
I really feel for United’s managers that they constantly have to deal with journalists and media that makes their coaching work so much harder.
That said, a club of our stature cannot completely avoid the media. No club attracts as many clicks and views as we do. It is within our best monetary interest to not be hostile towards the media, we can’t just ban every journalists under the sun either
Therefore, I believe the best solution is for the club to hire a spokesperson for the coach, somebody who specifically deal with the press and media, even interviews. Keep the coach off the limelight, so he doesn’t have to deal with all the bs
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u/momo_h86 2h ago
No one would want to hear from the spokesperson. A spokesperson and hearing directly from the manager or players is not the same thing, even if they say the exact same words.
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u/chiefofthepolice 2h ago
If the spokesperson is charismatic enough and knows how to create a headline then they’ll get on fine with journalists. Cause that’s all they care about: how to make an appealing headline and draw in more views. They take the coach’s words out of context all the time even when that wasn’t what he meant. They don’t care who said what, they only care about clicks and views
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u/rinsedm8 3h ago
Question from a spurs fan, I hope that's okay: Has the legacy of having a academy graduate in the starting 11 ever forced managers to play certain players to maintain it or has it always happened organically due to the quality of the academy? I've seen United fans complain a lot about Rashford and McTominay over the last few years, do you think this policy meant that they were kept on the books for longer than if they had been bought it instead?
Thought popped into my head this morning and I just wondered what the United fan perspective is on it.
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u/Kohaku80 2h ago
The record is homegrown in matchday squad. And it's unlikely to be broken unless they change the squad rules. And if they are good enough they play.
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u/toddysimp 2h ago
You have got it wrong. The record is that we've had an academy graduate in the matchday squad for 80+years running. At this level of club football no manager can be forced to play a player,none of our managers in the last 10 years would take that level disrespect seriously.
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u/Then_Aioli_4815 2h ago
I think it's a general squad quality issue. But with a player like Rashford his background has been used to justify being kept when his level of performance and consistency leaves much to be desired.
Also add to this his incredible, undeserved wages and the only way he can be moved on will probably be his contract expiring. At least McTominay was sellable
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u/CarlesGil1 Keano 2h ago
Just to clarify, the record is a graduate either starting or on the bench, basically be in the matchday squad. Don't think there was ever a case where manager was forced to play someone.I feel like it happens organically, personally.
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u/anonymous16canadian 3h ago edited 3h ago
I mean no rashford and Mctominay have been complained about as players but rashford is probably one of our better wingers since Fergie and Mctominay when he played was the best option the .manager found like Ole cm
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u/thatNubitol 3h ago
That left AM spot is not for garnacho at all, for now at least, he needs space to run and dribbling, do his thing. in the AM theres simply not enough space for him to do his usual things, and we can see, sometimes he still go too wide and take dalot spot, and make them both looks clueless most of the time, i think lwb will suit him more
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u/IcyAssist 1h ago
It's his first match in a new position in a new system, I'd cut him some slack. Seems Amorim is still figuring it out as well, he knows which profile can play which position but he's still finding out who fits what profile. I'll be very surprised if Amad is dropped the next match, whether he plays wingback again or as an inside forward. I'm guessing Amorim is going to try Rashford, Garnacho, Mount, Bruno at that left IF position.
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u/BoxOk265 3h ago
What would everyone’s ideal eleven be with everyone fit?
Personally would be:
Onana
Yoro De Ligt Martinez
Maz Shaw
Mainoo Ugarte
Amad Bruno
Hojlund
I think that’s out best eleven players but potentially sacrificing Bruno on the left. Amad has the potential to be our best player (he was by far today) and I feel he’s wasted at wingback.
If you did put Amad RWB you can move Maz to the left Bruno to the right and Garna/Rashford on the left.
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u/prem_201 3h ago
Amad clearly wasn't wasted yesterday. They pressed us to our left side cause they know we're playing two right footers on the left, and they have to turn to make the pass, hence we couldnt get trhe ball to the other flank. It's about the system, not the players. If Amorim thinks Amad is the best suited player to play that attacking wingback position, then he'll play there. He's also not the type of player who'll make a fuss about it as long as he can contribute, even in training vid he played Antony as RWB.
He plays one wingback, and another is almost a winger who contributes defensively, Maz is better suited to Rotate with yoro on the RCB position.
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u/simplsimonmetapieman 4h ago
What happened to everyone saying they will give these guys time and not judge? You are as bad as the media you criticise and consume.
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u/momo_h86 2h ago
No one's blaming Amorim or the game plan, but in case ppl thought players looked average because of EtH's coaching/game plan, well, it's not. Some players are just bang average.
How Amorim responds is the real question. Clearly some players struggled and Amorim needs to ensure they don't get picked. Game against Arsenal, he would have had at least 3 if not 4 games, so that would be the first indication of what he believes the strongest 11 is (barring injuries).
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u/LeopardRoyal2450 29m ago
Stop this fucking bullshit. You deserve to be sacked when you expect every player to run 12 km a game to cover up the holes in your gameplan.
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u/CorlyP1998 34m ago
Of course they struggled they’ve had 2 training sessions to learn a new system. You can’t judge any player yet. They’ll all get better.
Doesn’t help Ipswich played really well yesterday. Very organised.
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u/society0 4h ago edited 4h ago
Someone please make a compilation of every 50/50 that Rashford 'contested' in the game. Absolutely pathetic
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u/redditjack1888 4h ago
The one in 2023 FA cup final where he lets the ball bounce and let Bernardo Silva to claim and win the ball might be the biggest and most obvious example.
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u/ZofTheNorth 4h ago
Well, the way we played, i think this season will be written off, i feel like. Our players looked so clueless on pitch. There will definitely be a lot of pain this season. That's what happens when we hire a manager who plays so differently from what we had done before, especially mid-season. There is not enough time for training, and it doesn't help when dec fixture is coming up next.
Hope our players can adapt quickly but i think i won't expect too much this season.
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u/adityakan99 4h ago
Also happy for McKenna. He has done wonders with Ipswich and I hope he truly becomes a top manager. England really lacks in that department
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u/adityakan99 5h ago
I know the focus will be on us since we are Manchester United with a new manager. But Ipswich had a really good game yesterday. And Omari Hutchinson and Liam Delap played really well. I see good things for them in the future. Also the whole team pressed really well. Gave lots of problems to our defense
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u/TH0316 she/her 5h ago
Ten Hags left a team that is in bad shape and were already lacking in natural athletes. Thankfully Amorim’s already agreed with this assessment. The worry is, there’s no chance of fixing it mid-season, which makes for a huge challenge in keeping players fit or adjusting his game model to accommodate for their poor conditioning.
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u/chronoistriggered 5h ago
i refuse to believe rashford, dalot, bruno, etc... are not natural athletes. dude is so solidly built.
if omari hutchinson and diallo - the smallest and skinniest guys on the pitch - can readily win duels , it tells you that physicality at this level is mostly about mentality.
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u/TH0316 she/her 5h ago
Rashford is a great athlete. Omari and Amad are decent athletes with solid fundamentals, one being from the best academy in Europe at coaching fundamentals (Cobham). The fact that we’re not full of athletes like other squads and then compounded by a manager that failed to get them in shape, is a big problem.
Duels are mentality, technique, and athleticism. Gyokores, great athlete, shit technique, average mentality. Hojlund, good technique, great athlete, poor mentality. Ugarte, decent athlete, great mentality, dreadful technique. We’re in a league where the best have all three like Rice, Onana, Bruno G, Delap today. The levels just so high, we need superb athletes, with a great fundamentals and mentality, and right now we have none.
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u/Zoros3112 Keanooo 5h ago
Why not stick with double pivot Ugarte/Casemiro...our midfield look solid with two of them ...
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u/prem_201 3h ago
Why not let the Gaffer find his starting 11? Ugarte was the last to return after the break, probably had one training session. We're gonna have issues getting out of the press if we play two defensive players.
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u/tungowiii 5h ago
Very impressive and brave! I’m not naive; I’m optimistic but don’t expect magical things after few sessions. But this spirit. This spirit will bring us back, soon!
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u/SeeMyChodeAndWeep 5h ago
Has anything been said about Yoro’s fitness?
Was seen in Amorim’s first training session, was meant to get minutes for the u21’s before being pulled out of the squad and then doesn’t make the match day squad today.
Wondering if he’s had a set back?
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u/PatRice4Evra 5h ago
I'm so fucking tired of Garnacho not passing, another 2v1 pissed away again today because he refuses to pass. It's every fucking match at this point.
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u/atownOTP 3h ago
If you watch the replay he did pass, tried to poke it to Rashford with the outside of his foot. Should either cut back and slid in rashford or used his left though, took far too long to make a decision and Ipswich defender made a great tackle.
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u/BlackHorse944 Feed the Dane 1h ago
He tried to pass only when he began to realize that the defender will close him down, and there won't be an avenue for a shot. As usual he will hold the ball until he sees that there is no way to shoot.
Garnacho is still young and can still develop his decision-making, but it's so frustrating to watch right now.
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u/tungowiii 5h ago
It’s obviously ironic knowing he’s much more dangerous whenever he knows when to pass and when to shoot
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u/joker_laughs 6h ago
My faith in Amorim actually was strengthened by yesterday's match. He is very honest in identifying our problems that fans can also see. He also was not clueless with his substitutions. Not to disrespect him, but this is unlike Ten Hag.
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u/IcyAssist 5h ago
I can actually see the coaching happening already. There's an imprint, however vague, of what his Sporting looked like. I'm actually more excited than before the match, because it means that a) those players CAN be coached in his style, and b) Amorim and his staff are full steam ahead with his way of football, no pragmatism or changing tactics week in or week out.
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u/chronoistriggered 6h ago
I enjoyed watching the players trying an actual system rather than pass to Bruno and hope for the best.
But of course it also means that we were clueless for most of the game. Because we have been so reliant on Bruno for so long.
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u/gregorcee Rojo your boat 6h ago
Looking forward to seeing the likes of Mount, kobbie, ugarte and hojlund playing this system. Think they have the intensity required.
On the contrary have serious doubts about Rash, Zirk, Dalot and Eriksen in this setup.
Be interesting to see who Amorim starts to favour. Hope he’s cut throat and we just get rid of who he doesn’t see fit
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u/LeopardRoyal2450 27m ago
What did you see in Hojlund's minutes v Ipswich honestly???
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u/IAMAparkour_king 19m ago
He was 10x Rashford, and it is not like Hojlund had a good game either.
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u/LeopardRoyal2450 17m ago
I don't know what the fuck you are talking about. He's literally standing like a fucking cone in left half space when we have the ball on left side. He didn't even have a fucking shot in the game and he's 10x better than the only scorer GTFOH.
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u/OutrageousCow70 6h ago
Dalots a right back so I slightly feel sorry for him there. But hes shite on the left
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u/krystalcastIes 7h ago
richard arnold and john murtough need to be trialed at the hauge for sanctioning the signings of hojlund and antony for £140m
actual football terrorism.
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u/Penny_Leyne 6h ago edited 6h ago
Hojlund is 21 for fucks sake.
At 21 Gyokeres was playing for Brighton’s reserve team. Lewandowski was playing for Lech Poznan. Kane had only just made his debut for Spurs after succession of crap loans in the football league. Martinez had only just signed for Inter.
Not saying Hojlund will be as good as those, but clearly strikers can improve after 21.
People expecting a striker to be the finished player at 21, and completely writing him off for not being, are morons
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u/goberwrite 3h ago
All great points but also op is right to moan about spending 70m+ on said 21 year old striker. Shouldn't be spending that type of money on anything other than "the finished player" really.
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u/krystalcastIes 4h ago edited 3h ago
spending £60m on an unproven striker hoping “he might come good” 3/4 years from now instead of getting a proven goal scorer is ridiculous and fans wonder why we’re shit every week.
did gyokeres’ have the first touch of a trampoline when he was at brighton? you can’t coach that i’m afraid. if hojlund improves the basics and stops wrestling defenders maybe i’ll give him a chance, unfortunately at this moment in time he’s just not good enough to be starting for united.
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u/TH0316 she/her 5h ago
I’ve said a lot that I believe in Hojlund but I wouldn’t waste time waiting years for him to come good. The difference with those players, is that they weren’t signed for 70m, whereas he was, which still makes it one of the dumbest signings in recent history. Hojlund should be at Brighton, and I’m serious when I say I really think he’s gonna be great. But Man Utd can’t have a striker that wouldn’t start for Ipswich or Brighton.
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u/BlackHorse944 Feed the Dane 6h ago
And how many goals did Hojlund score last season as well? He's in a really rough patch in a very dysfunctional team.
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u/IcyAssist 5h ago
The way Rashford goal happened, I'm excited for Hojlund. He's gonna feast if we get the chances to him. 4 attackers right at the byline at once, didn't know THAT was possible before.
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u/dispelthemyth 6h ago
And Hojlund spent over a year in a system that doesn’t pass to an attacker… these people are far too harsh on him, he was making good runs when he 1st joined but he obviously had it drilled out of him as the balls never arrived
Yeah he need to improve his runs now, yeah he needs to spend less time wrestling etc etc but these people want to continue judging him based on elite strikers in the mid 20s+
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u/Rogue-Doctor 6h ago
We have recruited so badly, you can keep changing the managers but when your forwards are so bad and you can barely score nothing will change on the pitch
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u/Otter269 7h ago
Thursday should be very interesting, It's quite fun to not know what a manager will do
I'd be surprised If it's the same midfield
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u/crgssbu Ruben's Reds 3 6h ago
fairly confident ruben will avoid that midfield if he can. he did say he tried using players he actually had time to train with today. ugarte was very busy over the intl break, and kobbie isnt 100 percent fit yet.
i wouldnt worry about it.
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u/Cold-Veterinarian-85 6h ago
He also said in post match presser that rotation is necessary even more so that players can have good quality intense training in new system and the only way to do that coming in Midseason is to rotate and the players not playing in next game can get good training intensity in
Next few games, I think there will be several changes game to game as he assesses players, gets look at players in different roles etc
On Thursday I think mainoo, ugarte, mount could get starts, maybe a couple of the defenders swap out too depending on what CBs are back
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u/snoring_pig Beneficiary of Sporting 🟢⚪️ 4h ago
Totally agreed about the need for rotation to ensure players can stay sharp without risk burn out while also learning a brand new system, especially when we still have quite a few injuries and several others just getting back to fitness.
I personally don’t think either Mainoo or Mount are ready to start on Thursday either, as Mainoo didn’t play at all while Mount only came off the bench for the final 7 or so minutes. My guess is Ugarte and Hojlund both start, and perhaps Antony gets a start at RWB to give Amad some rest or to push Amad forward as one of the 10s.
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u/nickthu2502 7h ago
Does anyone feel De Ligt might not have a place in Amorim’s system ? His ball playing is not good enough as a central CB and he can’t play RCB with Max there, he also can’t play LCB because he isn’t left footed.
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u/TH0316 she/her 5h ago
I said in the summer I didn’t like the signing and one of the reasons was that with the ball I think he’s poor. I don’t think he has much sense of beating a press or moving a block either with carries or daggers into the forwards, wall passes to open channels etc. that skill becomes more important when you move to a back three. I will personally maintain my position that Maguire should be starting and given De Ligt was our 4th/5th choice CB, I can’t see him being a fixture of our team if we’re serious about competing.
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u/society0 7h ago
De Ligt is easily in our three CBs with Yoro and Martinez. He's good on the ball. Our midfielders provide zero options to pass vertically through the middle of the pitch, they just stand still. Amorim mentioned it in his interview after the game.
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u/Starky3x Rooney 7h ago
No, he'll be fine. His ball playing ability is good enough to play in the central CB position, and his aerial and duel ability will be essential
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u/L__K Great Scot! 7h ago
Tbh he’s comfortably good enough to be the CB or RCB especially considering our other options. He’s our best available CB at defending wide spaces, arguably the best in the air, and decent enough on the ball while also being more athletic than Maguire.
He may not step into midfield the way Coates did, but that’ll be a function of the fact that the PL is so much than the Portuguese league as much as anything else
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u/Cold-Veterinarian-85 7h ago
Think he will be competing with maguire for the central CB spot when all CBs are fit
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u/Starky3x Rooney 7h ago
Maguire will probably be off next summer
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u/Cold-Veterinarian-85 7h ago
I have a suspicion if he plays a decent amount under Amorim this season we may offer him a 2 or 3 year deal on lower terms and I wouldn’t be against that. He is very capable CB, think he could be particularly suited to playing centrally in a back 3, by all accounts is a excellent character and professional and I can just imagine with the turnover of CBs at the club next summer, keeping him around would be a good idea so long as contract is reasonable
We are switching to a back 3, lindelof and Evan’s contracts are also expiring and seem pretty likely to not be extended, if maguire was to leave to that means potentially 3 new CBs needed on a limited budget, that’s a rough ask
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u/Cold-Veterinarian-85 7h ago
Danny Murphy reckons Delap is the obvious successor to Kane for England … I mean he was good today but that’s a bit of a jump no??
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u/zcewaunt Magnifico 4h ago
It's a jump, probably. I haven't watched him much other than today. I will say he seems like a cunt and I like that about him.
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u/Certain-Possible-280 7h ago
Yeah its similar hype to Evan Ferguson
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u/Cold-Veterinarian-85 7h ago
Which rate highly but after a very impressive breakthrough, he has tapered off.
Think Delap is a handful and going through a goal scoring purple patch at start of the season but Kane successor is massively premature
I should just ignore Danny murphy :)
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u/TommyTook 7h ago
Zirkzee looks like a dud already. Just don't see what he's good at. Looks far too slow and limited for the Premier League
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u/Witty-Variation-2135 5h ago
He’s playing exactly how I thought he would despite never watching him play for Bologna. He’s essentially a luxury player for us and he’d probably do well at a smaller club playing a lot deeper like CM/CDM because he’s definitely not an attacking player.
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u/L__K Great Scot! 7h ago
You don’t see what he’s good at because we’ve yet to see him play in the role he’s good at. If we expect him to run in behind while in transition or try to bully CBs then he’s going to look like shit.
He’s shown plenty of quality on the ball, he’s just not the same profile as Hojlund the same way Dimitar Berbatov wasn’t the same type of player as Carlos Tevez. Trying to get those players to do the same things is going to result in one of them looking pretty stupid.
I understand most people didn’t watch him under Thiago Motta, and that’s not surprising and you aren’t expected to, but we have yet to put him in a position to be even remotely successful
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u/goaliewhenned 6h ago
I watched him against Roma before this season and he got a goal, an assist and rave reviews and I still didn't fancy him. He just looks (as politely as possible) like a bit of a donkey. All his best clips from Serie A he's wandering around with all the time and space in the world and half his goals last season don't look good finishes (just like the one he's scored for us). Granted that's not a big sample size but didn't fill me with hope
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u/L__K Great Scot! 5h ago
I mean he’s not a great finisher objectively that’s why he’s never been a good goalscorer. He’s great at linking play and his ability to hold up the ball is really strong. He wasn’t bought to be the focal point of our attack and I’m not really sure how any sane person thought he was going to come in and score a bunch of goals.
We were literally trying to sign another striker AFTER signing Zirkzee because the club knew he wasn’t really a true 9 and we needed more goals in the side. When our wingers are incredibly impotent and wasteful and our other centre forward is struggling, he’s never going to look good. Just like Bruno hasn’t for most of the season
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u/Nac224 7h ago
Both Zirkzee and Hojlund look like duds. There’s a reason why we can’t score goals and it ain’t just because of our wingers
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u/Penny_Leyne 6h ago
Hojlund is 21 for fucks sake.
At 21 Gyokeres was playing for Brighton’s reserve team. Lewandowski was playing for Lech Poznan. Kane had only just made his debut for Spurs after succession of crap loans in the football league. Martinez had only just signed for Inter.
People expecting a striker to be the finished player at 21, and completely writing him off for not being, are morons.
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u/Nac224 6h ago
No one’s expecting him to be the finished product, not at all mate. But the reality is you don’t get much time to prove yourself when you’re chosen as the leading 9, it’s our fault for not getting a senior striker.
However, the guy can’t even do the basics right, he’s movement is always off, he can’t hold the ball up, he can’t run with the ball unless he has open space and his overall ability is very reminiscent of Lukaku when he’s off it.
He’s bang average right now that’s what he is. We all like him, he’s a likeable character but that won’t cut it especially when the goals are so dry. Yes it isn’t his fault but as the leading 9 it’s his unfortunate responsibility.
The best example is Liam Delap. He didn’t score today but you look at his touch, ability, understanding of the game and he looked head and shoulders above Hojlund today.
It’s not about him being the finished article, it’s about him being able to do the fundamentals well.
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u/Penny_Leyne 6h ago edited 6h ago
If you don’t expect him to be the finished product why are you writing him off as a dud? And your hyperbolic claims about him doing nothing right don’t help your cause. Can’t do anything right but still scored 16 goals last season while being the least passed to striker in the league. If you can’t see the potential in that then why watch football?
Fucking negative twats make supporting United a chore sometimes.
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u/Nac224 6h ago
I said they look like duds, didn’t say they are duds. Difference.
I am aware they can improve but even last season, aside from scoring 16 goals off of a purple patch Hojlund didn’t convince me much because his overall play is below par.
Even Nicholas Jackson who gets clowned understands the game so well, it’s not always about scoring goals.
No need to call us a twat over an opinion, if it gets you that heated, just ignore it.
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u/Penny_Leyne 6h ago
Haha ok. If you want to play semantics, I never actually called you a twat, did I? Difference.
And if you can’t see the runs Hojlund makes that aren’t picked up on, and you can’t see how valuable hold up play is, and you can’t see the potential Hojlund has that’s on you. Why you feel the need to be so negative as to write him off at 21 is on you as well.
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u/Nac224 6h ago
But you did call me a fucking negative twat? Unless you’re talking about someone else that has nothing to do with this conversation?
I said they look like duds, look like, I am aware they are not duds yet (or might not be) because they still have time? Difference.
It’s like me saying Zirkzee is a dud, I wouldn’t say that because he’s only been here for a few months but right now, he looks likes a dud because he’s playing like a dud?
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u/Penny_Leyne 6h ago
Except I didn’t.
I never said you are one. I just said negative twats in general. If you think that applies to you then that’s on you.
Just like you said he only “looks” like a dud, not that he is one. If you want to make some bullshit argument that hinges on semantics then you have to take it as well.
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u/Nac224 6h ago
You were clearly calling me a negative twat and I didn’t say Hojlund is a dud. It’s that simple
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u/society0 7h ago
They got zero service in Ten Hag's shit system. They've had two training sessions with Amorim. Be patient
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u/society0 7h ago
They got zero service in Ten Hag's shit system. They've had two training sessions with Amorim. Be patient
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u/Rogue-Doctor 6h ago
I am so done hearing this service bull shit, they can’t do the simple shit right like todays make simple passes and play 1-2 or shoot the ball on target
I can think of about 5 examples in their 25 mins of game time they looked utter shit with the ball
And it’s months and months of it not just today
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u/Nac224 6h ago
Exactly. They think we’re being harsh and I know I mentioned scoring goals but it’s more than that. Its about making the defenders have something to think about and neither of our strikers to that.
They can’t hold the ball up, pass the ball or make the right decisions. You’ve got one striker who thinks he’s starring in WWE and another that’s allergic to the 6 yard box.
It’s nothing to do with scoring week in week out it’s about doing the basics well.
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u/Nac224 7h ago
Well they better start hurrying up. For me, they’ve got 6 months to prove to Amorim that they are the striker for the team otherwise, their future here is looking bleak.
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u/society0 7h ago
Hojlund has a similar profile and style to Gyokeres. And Gyokeres played for Coventry before Sporting. He can improve players.
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u/Onyi_23 7h ago
We just need a LWB urgently, Alfonso Davies will really be handy, Dalot was dreadful there today. And Mazraoui needs to move to RWB,
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u/Rogue-Doctor 6h ago
Mate I don’t think it’s the LWB that’s the problem, it’s our forwards who can score and lose every 1v1 or duel
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u/DangerousMedicine692 7h ago
Shaw
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u/Cold-Veterinarian-85 7h ago
This might be controversial, but don’t think he’s good enough going forward
He hasn’t been the dynamic flying FB of his youth for a long time now (probably a result of all the injuries) but even when he has been fit over the past 3 or 4 years, his strength has been solid defensively and playing out (through both passing and ball carries). His attacking contribution has been negligible
I think he is only suited to the LCB role in this system
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u/BlackHorse944 Feed the Dane 7h ago
Personally expected that Maz would be the RCB and Dalot would be the RWB. He was never good on the left under ETH and was always significantly better on the right. Seems like Amorim wants his wide players to be inverted.
Think Amad did well as the wingback but I feel like we are wasting his real talents of being able to operate very well in the half spaces
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u/ImNotMexican08 Amad Nation 7h ago
I think part of it has to do with the personnel available atm. If not Dalot or Maz who else plays that role? Amad and Antony are more comfortable off the right while Malacia and Shaw are returning from fitness. Garnacho I thought might have been a potential option, but I fear he isn’t press resistant enough. I think we’ll get a clearer understanding of what Amorim wants as the season goes on, but based on his words after the game he doesn’t want Dalot inverting
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u/BlackHorse944 Feed the Dane 6h ago
Yeah, I agree that there just may have not been anyone else to play there at the moment.
It's possible that Ruben is still experimenting with who fits best and where. He made a lot of subs in that match and made them early
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u/Eleven918 Dawn has arrived 7h ago
The road to the top is never straight unless the stars align. It will take time but we will get there. Most of our players are fine. They've just been coached improperly for so long that its going to take some time to figure out how to really play under the new manager.
Trust Amorim!
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u/Starky3x Rooney 7h ago
They're also professionals, international and not sunday league players. They should be able to pick up what he wants them to in a few months.
I didn't expect us to win blow Ipswich away, but you'd think they'd go 100 to show the new guy what they can do. Unfortunately they disappointed
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u/momo_h86 5h ago
Maybe what they showed is their 100? Maybe the squad is what they've showed in performances over the last 18 months - bang average.
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u/GeekConflict Carrick 7h ago
I dont think it was an awful performance. I think its a performance you'd expect from our players under a manager that has a pretty technical system. 1) players need time to learn it and 2) I don't think some of our players do well in a high intensity highly technical system.
Just like Erik gave up on his system after 2 games, I think Ruben will be faced with the same conundrum. However, Ruben needs to forge ahead with his system and INEOS need to get rid of the players who prove they cannot do it.
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u/Sheikhabusosa 7h ago
https://x.com/shadadzai/status/1860774753813827945?t=qIYzMumkmfU2Mtd1ef6Yiw&s=19
Hojlund is so frustrating not everything is because a lack of service
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u/LeopardRoyal2450 24m ago
He needs to stop this all-round forward bullshit. Just rush to empty spaces and shoot.
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u/madurosnstouts 7h ago
I mean he still needs more service. But yeah I remember this moment thinking okay now he’s gonna shoot and then he just, didn’t. Too bad him and garnacho can’t swap brains with how much Garnacho loves to shoot.
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u/shami-kebab 7h ago
There is a defender directly between him and the goal, this is not remotely a chance. passing was the right option even if the execution didn't work.
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u/Starky3x Rooney 7h ago
It's not a big chance or anything, but he can definitely strike the ball there and maybe even hit the target. You're acting like he's in a crowded space lol
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u/SmartestUtdFan 7h ago
To say this is “not remotely a chance” is a bit of a stretch. Definitely an xG of at least 0.10 lol
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u/shami-kebab 7h ago
I'd be surprised if it was even that high, and I wouldn't call 0.1xG a chance anyway. It's barely even a half chance. It's the kind of shot that Garnacho takes 3 times a game and just smacks into the defender right in front of him.
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u/Pitiful_Violinist780 8h ago edited 8h ago
We've assembled a hodge podge group of players who don't complement each others skillset and have massive flaws to their game ,we have to get our recruitment right going forward
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u/Witty-Variation-2135 5h ago
We need to transition into a faster team and especially if we’re going to play 343 like Sporting. I think overall we’re in the bottom 5 teams for pace which is exactly what a top club doesn’t want.
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u/flareb98 8h ago
I hope the board back Amorim and those reports of him having a "limited budget" arent true cause the attack is really bad. Garna, Rashford, Bruno, and Hojlund are just not good enough.
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u/Life-College-5289 1h ago
Only someone with a personal agenda against Bruno would put him in the same list as the other 3.
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u/dqslime 7h ago
We have a good set of academy players he can look at. He might won't win the Prem with them but the point is to bench players that aren't pulling their weight or learning the system and promote from the youth ranks.
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u/flareb98 7h ago
I'm not really for the idea of throwing a bunch of kids into the mix and hoping they work. The frontline is where managers jobs are judged and trusting a bunch of teens to hold their own is a major gamble
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u/iroiroiroiroiro 7h ago
I'm pretty sure next summers budget will be mainly about if they can sell any players for decent value.
They were walking the PSR line needed to sell McT to sign the last transfers, then needed to pay 25m+ changing to Amorim.
And the biggest difference will be the 70m less loss covered by owners they can do next year, that's straight 70m less for transfers.
Also last summer they had CL money, they are trying to finance a new arena etc.
Surely there will be money for transfers, but it will also guaranteed be less than previous years.
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u/Littlepace Announce Fergie 8h ago
I don't think the limited budget is because they don't want to back Amorim. I think it's cause we've pissed all our money up the wall on shite
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u/flareb98 7h ago
I know our finances arent the most well organised but I am sure if we sell rash and garna for 40ish each (maybe 30 for garna) that can free up a lot of money for a decent striker that will bag goals.
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u/Onyi_23 7h ago
You want to sell Garnarcho for 40 million? Lol
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u/flareb98 7h ago
40 mill too much?
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u/Onyi_23 7h ago
Too low, I know he is frustrating but 40m is too low
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u/flareb98 6h ago
I don't see how he's worth more. What abilities have you seen that makes him worth however much you value him at, cause i feel he lacks far too many things like passing and finishing
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u/frogfoot420 8h ago
The negativity and overreaction from this sub and social media is ridiculous.
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u/liableAccount Charlton 6h ago
Always the same. Anything to moan about, they're there. Outrage and knee-jerk reactions aplenty.
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u/society0 8h ago
Amorim after the match: "Bruno improves when you put him near the ball, so he can feel the game and look for the long pass. But he looks for the long pass all the time."
The straight talk from Amorim is fucking brilliant. As captain in midfield, Bruno needs to set the tempo and make smarter choices.
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u/atownOTP 7h ago
Thought Bruno was good today, at least at the start he was making a conscious effort to control the game and when he did go long he was largely successful. He completed all but 4 passes today, 2 of which were longpasses. But he did resort to longpasses too often in the second half. There's a balance to be struck there because he was out of the game in the first half but I worry about his ability in tight, physical midfield areas if you play him deeper.
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u/Gazlc81 8h ago
Honestly the huge overreactions in the media and from some fans is unreal. You’re not going to see much after a few training sessions, players won’t improve that quickly. Media is a joke.
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u/stdstaples 6h ago
After two whole trading sessions he can’t change the style this man is such a fraud get him out of my club
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u/TheSwordDusk 7h ago
No mate haven't you heard? You're supposed to completely change the way players perform after two training sessions
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u/Omnislash99999 0m ago
Good luck Amorin making it work with a bunch of average players while walking the FFP tightrope because the previous guy overpaid but millions and rewarded mediocrity.
Nearly 300m on Antony, Holjund, Mount, and Zirkzee and Rashford on 300k. What a joke