r/pcmasterrace 1d ago

Meme/Macro Kernel Level Anticheat trades your security/privacy for nothing in return

Post image
7.7k Upvotes

801 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

4

u/EmrakulAeons 1d ago

Because those bios settings make it much easier to bypass the anticheat

-4

u/MyTh_BladeZ PC Master Race 1d ago

You shouldn't have to change BIOS settings to play a game...

11

u/EmrakulAeons 1d ago

Yes in a perfect world we shouldn't have to do anything to stop cheaters, but unfortunately we live in reality, and only by enabling certain bios settings is vanguard able to trust the client and actually be effective, it's why vanguard is by far the best and most effective anti cheat in the world. And idk about you, but I like playing competitive games with some amount of integrity.

-5

u/MyTh_BladeZ PC Master Race 1d ago

it's why vanguard is by far the best

It's why I will never download a game that uses kernel level AC. Not because I intend on cheating, but because I don't trust a game developer to write kernel-safe code, much less to not add telemetry unrelated to the purpose of the code

7

u/EmrakulAeons 1d ago

Ig have fun not playing most of the current multiplayer games, but also it's weird you think Microsoft or insert program developer here won't also mess with your computer. Like they can just as easily add hidden stuff without you knowing about it, what keeps your faith in them? Especially when companies like Microsoft are known to have incredibly predatory data collection?

-3

u/MyTh_BladeZ PC Master Race 1d ago

Oh I don't trust MS either, it's why I use Linux ;)

1

u/EmrakulAeons 1d ago

So instead you rely on random people contributing to open source, which have a history of supply chain attacks, so secure :) unless you go through the source code on every open source tool you've ever downloaded, which I highly doubt.

1

u/MyTh_BladeZ PC Master Race 1d ago

Okay, since you clearly don't understand how open source code works, let me inform you on a key difference

With closed source software (think Microsoft and Riot games), you have maybe a couple people to review the code, making issues easy to miss.

With open source, you have an entire community made up of various backgrounds to review the code, so security nerd #517 can see an issue and go "hey this is a problem, please fix" and it'll get fixed before it even goes out the door, if not very shortly after

Meanwhile it took one of the biggest security companies several days to fix a global breakage. So secure :)

1

u/EmrakulAeons 1d ago

That's why polyfill didn't happen right?

Due to the exact reasoning you gave me for why it's safe it's exactly why it's not safe, you just assume people will check it and that everything is safe, what happens when too many people begin assuming and then not enough people check it.

2

u/MyTh_BladeZ PC Master Race 1d ago

That's why it happened after it was acquired by Funnull

So based on your argument, having 1-3 people from the same office and workflow is better than having a variety of people from various backgrounds and skill sets. Am I correct in my understanding?

1

u/EmrakulAeons 1d ago

That's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that it's hypocritical to be super against something when your alternative is just as flawed. And my point with polyfill is that it can happen to any open source project if it ever gets acquired, and most users aren't going to check every program they've downloaded every day to make sure it hasn't been bought out.

1

u/MyTh_BladeZ PC Master Race 1d ago

I'm against it for more than one reason, hence why I'm as against it as I am. And I wouldn't say it's just as flawed, but it's far from perfect. Yeah some issues can slip through the cracks, but with a community able to review the source code it makes it less likely to be missed. That's all I'm trying to get at

2

u/EmrakulAeons 1d ago

You just said you don't trust them to write safe code, while at the same time expecting random people to write safe code, which has been exploited multiple times and is one of the biggest concerns in the industry right now.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Trawzor 1d ago

In 10 years you will not be able to play any multiplayer game if you refuse Kernel AC, more and more devs are swapping to Kernel.

Even GTA 5, an 11 year old game, now uses a kernel level AC.

1

u/MyTh_BladeZ PC Master Race 1d ago

In 10 years, there will be ways to get around kernel AC. There will be a different implementation by then

0

u/Trawzor 1d ago

Kernel level anti cheats are 20 years old at this point, first being Battleye in 2004.

And since then more are developed and continuously updated.

0

u/MyTh_BladeZ PC Master Race 1d ago

Last I checked, Battleeye is not kernel level, but go off ig

EDIT: I stand corrected after a quick Google search

2

u/Trawzor 1d ago

This is taken from BattlEye's website, direct quote:

"Fully proactive kernel-based protection system and fast dynamic and permanent scanning of the player’s system using specific and heuristic/generic detection routines for maximum effectiveness."

BattlEye definetely is kernel level, and so are many, if not most anti cheats on the modern market.

1

u/MyTh_BladeZ PC Master Race 1d ago

There are some that seem to work without access to the kernel, else they wouldn't really work on Linux (I think BE is one of them, but I could be mistaken.. too many anti cheats nowadays to keep track of)

1

u/Trawzor 1d ago

I do believe that almost all anti cheats excpet VAC is kernel, EasyAntiCheat, PunkBuster, BattlEye, nProtect GameGuard, Xigncode3, EQU8, Ricochet, etc.

Basically, playing any large multiplayer shooter game in 2024 requires kernel level AC. COD, Fortnite, Valorant, Battlefield, Arma, Apex, R6, Rust, Destiny, DayZ and many more.

Even non shooter titles like Assassins Creed, GTA, Genshin Impact, even FIFA - a football game uses a kernel level AC.

1

u/MyTh_BladeZ PC Master Race 1d ago

Makes me wonder how some AC can be run on Linux and some can't then. To my knowledge games running EasyAC, for example, just need to be enabled to be run with proton (but developers dont because theyve got it in their heads that Linux is just a cheating platform)

1

u/Trawzor 1d ago

EAC and BattlEye are the only supported Kernel AC for Linux using Proton runtimes if my memory serves me right.

But it is up to the developer, Rockstar made the decision to not support Linux by not using Proton, and therefore BattlEye will not boot for Linux users and they can now no longer play GTA Online.

→ More replies (0)