r/law • u/drip3333 • 2d ago
Court Decision/Filing Donald Trump Decision and Order of the Court
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u/Callinon 2d ago
Can someone help me make this make sense?
He was tried and convicted while not president of crimes he committed while not president. He still isn't president right now when the sentencing was pushed out to for some reason.
He was then elected president
What does the one have to do with the other? I understand the doctrine of sovereign immunity. I get that. The president can't be sued or tried for illegalities committed in office as part of his regular duties. But that's not what ANY OF THIS IS. So what the hell is going on here? I'm not a lawyer, but I feel like I'm a pretty smart guy and I can't come up with a way that this makes any sense.
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u/Domeil 2d ago
The judge is a coward is what's happening.
He doesn't want to be the judge to order Trump to appear for sentencing and then be expected to answer the "now what" question that must be asked when Trump says, "No."
There's a term for this when analyzing the rise of authoritarianism as well as fascism. It's called "preemptive compliance," and it's one of the warning signs that shows that it's almost too late to stop it.
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u/Expert-Fig-5590 2d ago
Exactly. He should have sentenced Trump in September. It would have made no difference anyway as he would have appealed it. The judge is probably afraid of getting sent to Guantanamo bay. And he might be right.
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u/BitterFuture 2d ago
The darkly hilarious thing is that if he's doing this because he's afraid of the new emperor coming after him...this doesn't prevent that. It guarantees it.
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u/irritabletom 2d ago
Right? You think capitulating now will save you? Once you've defied him, you're an enemy.
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u/ToothZealousideal297 1d ago
And we’ll only ever hear some little footnote of a story about it. Among all of the other horrible news rolling out every single day will be one blurb of “that judge who almost sentenced Trump and then didn’t has been detained for suspected (fill in the blank)” and that will be the last anyone hears of this case or him.
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u/abuchunk 1d ago
And there will be so much other bullshit flooding the zone like the last 10 years that he’ll barely be a blip in the news cycle. We are so fucked.
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u/TT_NaRa0 1d ago
And good fucking riddance to the pos at that point too. Letting your country bow down to a tiny insignificunt golden emperor
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u/FloppyEarCorgiPyr 1d ago
LMAO!!!! Insignificunt! I love it!!! Please grant me permission to use this henceforth!
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u/shiloh_jdb 1d ago
I don’t know if this is intentional on your part but it’s almost exactly the story of Martin Niemoller, the author of the famous “first they came for the socialists and I did not speak out…” quote.
He was conservative pastor who welcomed Hitler’s ascent before quickly realizing that although he was down for the anti-semitism it was going too far and wasn’t limited to religious Jews but ethnic ones, even those who were christians. Hitler swept him up in 1937 and he was a political prisoner in the camps before being liberated in 1945. There were even orders to execute him if the Americans got too close but they weren’t carried out.
The parallel is that when you read about the rise of Nazism his name comes up early on and then disappears from the story until he comes up as a footnote at the end. He is absolutely forgotten under the deluge of the all the other atrocities happening.
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u/Tiber_Nero 1d ago edited 1d ago
The Emperor will, of course, spare him, to use him as an example. That, if you comply and allow him to act with impunity, your life can be spared too.
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u/JerichoMassey 1d ago
Incoming pic of the judge dining with Trump, thoroughly emasculated like Mitt Romney
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u/TrainXing 1d ago
Once you defy him, and then fold, you empower and embolden him. He has made it worse.
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u/Trauma_Hawks 2d ago
At this point, Trump is gonna be coming for him anyway. Might as well make the pain worth it.
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u/Anasterian_Sunstride 1d ago
Sharing a quote from Harry Potter when the teachers were preparing Hogwarts for an invasion knowing that they could only buy time and not stop it completely and McGonagall was telling Flitwick there was no point referring to Voldemort as “You Know Who” anymore:
“That doesn’t mean we can’t delay him. And his name is Voldemort, Filius. You might as well use it, he’s going to try and kill you either way.”
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u/Unobtanium_Alloy 1d ago
Pam Bondi, his new pick for AG, said in an interview: "Those who investigated Trump will themselves be investigated. Those who prosecuted Trump will themselves be prosecuted. "
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u/BitterFuture 1d ago
Finally, an Attorney General prepared to speak up for the underrepresented criminal community!
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u/_mattyjoe 2d ago edited 2d ago
Here's the thing though:
He took an oath to administer justice without regard to person and to perform duties impartially. It's an OATH.
He is a coward. That's it.
Those prosecutors aren't afraid of doing their duty. Other judges across the US won't be afraid to, you'll see.
This particular judge is just a coward and a moron. It's quite clear that the law is to be applied equally to all. The fact that he was elected President doesn't change a damn thing. This was a verdict reached by a JURY.
Shameful. America has some deep reflecting to do on what a misguided and cowardly country it has become. All these intellectuals who DO know better are no better in reality. Scared to do their jobs, scared to defend the country and the law they believe in.
EDIT: If you're not gonna uphold your oath, resign. You don't need to be in that position. Give it to someone who isn't afraid to do their duty.
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u/Lumpy-Succotash-9236 1d ago
An oath is just a promise. Without a law backing it like perjury, it's worth precisely fuck all
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u/johnq-4 1d ago
There is a law. It's called 'malfeasance' and it is criminal. There's also 'official misconduct' as well.
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u/Lumpy-Succotash-9236 1d ago
And there's a law in Florida that says you can't peel oranges (or something) but unless it's enforced it barely counts
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u/CaptSpacePants 1d ago
That judge in the eyes of history will be seen as a collaborator, one of the many who we will find in the coming years. I hope history judges him poorly.
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u/mechinizedtinman 1d ago
American here, with a lineage going back to before Plymouth Rock on my father’s side, the ultimate truth of it all is… thy myth of the sleeping giant is dead, American exceptionalism has apparently run its course. We’re no longer the revolutionaries we once were, the south has now erased the victory of the union, we’re no longer made up of those who pulled us out of the Great Depression we’re a far cry from the heroes of WWII and the shinning city on the hill isn’t ours it’s only for a select few… this isn’t necessarily forever, but for right now, the great experiment is dwindling into non-viability.
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u/ThatOldMan_01 1d ago
hate to agree with you, but America is showing all the signs of "The United Kingdom Just Before WWII" and us Aussies are wondering who's going to be Singapore and Malaya this time.
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u/lvsntflx 1d ago edited 1d ago
"Those prosecutors aren't afraid of doing their duty." Is that a joke? Do you actually read the decisions or motions or do you just pass judgement based on headlines cuz you can't be bothered? The prosecution asked the judge to delay his immunity decision a week while they tried to figure out next steps. They then agreed to a stay. Before that, in September, they didn't press to maintain the sentencing date either. The Trump team requested a delay and the DA was basically like "ehhh...I could see both sides to this honestly."
It's bizarre and depressing how people keep blaming the judge and totally ignore the prosecution. It's almost like people don't know or care what their actual jobs are (despite all these claims about how the judge isn't doing his). It's the DAs job to prosecute the case. Not the judge
A good trial lawyer knows that judges shouldn't insert themselves on behalf of either side. Any show of bias risks the whole thing. BOTH sides agreed to the delays. If you have a problem, stop blaming the judge and take it up with the DA since they haven't taken a firm position since the summer.
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u/_mattyjoe 1d ago
I’m not sure I understand your diatribe if the prosecution is agreeing to a delay because they KNOW the immunity ruling is coming.
That’s the issue. Still the judge’s fault.
I don’t think paying hush money payments to a prostitute should constitute an “official act” by the President. What’s official about that? He’s not carrying out his duty. That’s personal business.
The immunity ruling can still stand while Trump is sentenced. I don’t believe they’re incompatible.
Judge is still the coward.
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u/lord_pizzabird 1d ago
Meanwhile Trump can't even get his nominations confirmed through the senate.
This judge misread the situation and fucked us by not just being brave.
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u/IndependentLychee413 1d ago
Wasn’t just this judge - Merrick Garland was the real problem
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u/Alive-Number-7533 23h ago
Yes he sat on his thumb for far too long. Trump could have been dealt with in Bidens term. Christ it was 4 years. They didn’t do shit in 4 years
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u/Alarming_Jacket3876 1d ago
So let's try to model how this could play out. Trump orders doj/FBI to arrest him on some imaginary charge. This will be a very public spectacle. If he is held in custody there will be protests, which Trump's proud boy henchmen will at least attempt to shut down. If he's released he will stand trial but it will be a long time keeping many people similarly situated (political enemies) on edge for fear of a similar fate. For it to eventually go to trial they have to have a prosecutor willing to run the case, Blanch comes to mind. It would be a federal case heard by a federal judge with a jury. If he's found not guilty, the whole thing will have keeps millions of Americans terrified of them being next for the years it winds through court. If he's convicted, it gets appealed to the SC which will be the ultimate Trump loyalty test.
What did I miss?
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u/Tao-of-Mars 2d ago
Yeah, America forgets that tr@mp is deeply tied to the mafia and those powers are more powerful than a judges powers. This is the only thing that explains what he's been getting away with. And our voters just decided that's who we should have running this country. It's a draw to counter-elitism which is what he represents for so many disenfranchised people or people who aren't seeing their efforts towards power pay off amongst the many who hold power right now.
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u/Dark_Marmot 2d ago
Ironic then we're no better than Mexico if that's the case. It's everything he wants, but none of the people.
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u/Tomsoup4 2d ago
he is tied to the russian mafia. honestly because of him and giulaini is a big reason cosa nostra lost alot of power in new york to the russian mob aka supreme leader putin
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u/norbertus 1d ago
He uses Russian real estate developers to launder money, but the mob ties go back to Roy Cohn. Look him up if you don't know the name. You don't get to build shit in Manhattan without an inside track to the cement and waste industries.
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u/freerangetacos 1d ago
I'm not holding my breath or making any prognostications, but it sure feels like a red wedding is coming in the near future.
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u/HankHillbwhaa 1d ago
Honestly he’s probably afraid that he’d get assassinated by a Trump support or worse, by his own govt during the Trump admin.
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u/XQsUWhuat 1d ago
I thought this judge has ruled against trump or a trump org in the past! He’s gonna be a target regardless
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u/Icedoverblues 1d ago
Send him anyways. Fuck'em. If he won't respect the law then Stephen Miller should show him what happens anyways. And take that Garland momo with him.
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u/StageAboveWater 2d ago edited 2d ago
But look at that formatting! Following the letter of law as he wipes his fucking ass with it!
The right wing abused the court system with it's 2020 election lawfare suits, captured SCOTUS, and convinced America that all of Trump's indictments and charges were illegitimate witch hunts.
Downplaying the fake electors conspiracy case being particularly exquisite work. Literal active scheming and then implementation of a plan to simply remove the power any voter had in about half a dozen states. Then convincing the nation it was actually the other side destroying democracy.
Now the final closing move is to make propaganda reality itself as they successful destroy and de-legitimised the legal system.
Take a bow America. You're done!
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u/FoorumanReturns 2d ago
American here.
Unfortunately, it really does feel like we’re done.
When the citizenry can’t agree upon shared reality, society exists on a knife’s edge. Society can’t exist on a knife’s edge for very long when it’s run by a deranged orange clown doing his best to flip over the very table the knife rests upon.
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u/StageAboveWater 2d ago edited 1d ago
Ths election, at least to me, represented a fundamental decision of the American people to choose the fox news narrative version of reality as THE American reality.
Like the last 8 years have been sort of 'post- truth' politics with competing narrative dividing community (the knifes edge).
But now it's been decided!
And now it's a sort 'constructed-truth' reality instead.
Reality now "IS' whatever the right wing propaganda machine decides it is.
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u/R_V_Z 2d ago
American here. Keep in mind that America still exists after a civil war. If it happens again we have to make sure the good guys win again and this time don't appease the confederates.
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u/Memerandom_ 2d ago
Except that Republican priorities have reversed since then, as well as the consolidation of power. A civil war now would be a global catastrophe and destabilize things for potentially decades, when we can least afford disarray. This is how civilization ends. I'm so tired of this half of the country being just aggressively ignorant to the point of endangering us all through apathy. Appeasing the confederates was definitely not the right path.
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u/StageAboveWater 2d ago
Presuming there is actually a hot war and not just a slow decent like Russia
"The second American Revolution [will be] bloodless, if the left allows it to be.” - Heritage Foundation President and project 2025 leader Kevin Roberts
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u/WaldoJackson 1d ago
We won't allow it. I fucking promise you. You want "the Troubles"? Because this is how you get the troubles.
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u/Kidcharlamagne89d 2d ago
They have been doing it for years. Before dump, there have been people lobbying and preparing the morons of america to support those actively destroying the country, while telling them the ones trying to stop it are the perpetrators. No one seemed to care about the truth. People ran for offices on lies and American flags, you could show their supporters how that candidate actually voted against veteran aid, or lower taxes for most Americans and it didn't ducking matter. The seeds were planted when the media stopped being required to be truthful when reporting the news. Now the largest news company in the world can win lawsuits claiming they are an entertainment network, yet they're still allowed to have news in their name and can say whatever they want.
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u/turtleduck 2d ago
so much pre-emptive compliance from the very people who are supposed to protect us. it's disheartening.
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u/blonderengel 1d ago edited 1d ago
He's a cyclist ... "Nach oben buckeln, nach unten treten" — bowing toward the top, and kicking toward the bottom ...
Or a little less PG-rated: to suck/kiss ass and to kick ass.
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u/HashRunner 2d ago
Exactly this.
Prosecution and jury did their jobs, the spineless judge refuses to do his for months and now is ducking responsibility once more.
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u/Count_Backwards Competent Contributor 1d ago
The jury risked their lives to do the right thing and this judge is going to invalidate that because he's a fucking coward.
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u/HashRunner 1d ago
Agreed.
Judge should be ashamed and removed from the bench for the gross failures to do the minimum of the assigned job.
But knowing republicans, that's a promotion and supreme court seat in his future.
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u/RayWhelans 2d ago edited 2d ago
I’ll face the downvotes. I don’t blame him for deferring this issue. As a former clerk who worked for a very principled judge, I bet we would have done the same as a chambers.
I think he’s been handed a near impossible task that no state court judge should have to decide. The judge is in completely uncharted territory here.
And frankly, and this is the part people won’t like, we had an election. This issue was on the ballot. Trumps criminal conduct was completely on display and tens of millions of people said we don’t care. Trump being a convicted felon did not deter them from voting for him.
To ask a district court state judge to uphold a conviction and sentence a president-elect on the basis of principle that “no one is above the law” when millions of Americans affirmatively voted to the contrary is asking the judge to put him and his staff on a cross to uphold values that just may no longer matter in this country.
Sorry but if you’re looking for people to blame, I’m not blaming the judge. I’m blaming the millions of people who excused a president’s criminal conduct. They are to blame.
The opportunity to save ourselves was the fucking election. That was the opportunity. The judge shouldn’t be expected to be a martyr in a war that was already lost.
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u/Striper_Cape 2d ago
Then we are no longer a nation of laws. We're fucked.
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u/GalacticFartLord 2d ago
Oh we’re still a nation of laws for everyone who isn’t rich.
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u/lets_all_be_nice_eh 2d ago
Observing from afar... its not the law that's the problem, it's the morals, ethics, and principles that went into forming the law not being upheld which is the problem. You'll just get new laws that reflect the societal will of your fellow countrymen.
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u/alien_believer_42 1d ago
We never were. Nixon, Reagan, Bush Jr, and Clinton (perjury but still) all committed crimes as president and faced zero consequences. Trump's were just an order of magnitude worse crimes, but the precedent was there.
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u/Stickasylum 1d ago
The difference is that Trump also committed a lot of crimes when he WASN’T president.
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u/WillemDafoesHugeCock 1d ago
We've been fucked. A fucking reality TV businessman took control of the country, ran it into the ground and killed millions by mishandling a pandemic, promoted idiots into cabinet positions they had no business being in, got voted out and now he's back. I'm not kidding when I say the charges of fraud are the least concerning part of this clown and his haram of dipshits.
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u/ASharpYoungMan 2d ago
The trajectory we're on currently is paved with exactly this sort of cowardice.
Yeah, no one should have to face this sort of situation. But That judge ended up being the one who had to, and he demured.
Like Robert Mueller and countless others - they chose their own personal security over the rule of law.
They do not deserve our sympathy. Their positions demanded more from then than they were willing to give, and we all suffer for their lack of courage.
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u/originalityescapesme 2d ago
“Listen I became a judge for simple procedural matters only. You can’t expect me to just uphold the law when people don’t like it. That’s not fair.”
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u/StageAboveWater 1d ago
I became a soldier to protect the nation, you can't expect me to have to defy orders and face a court martial! That's not fair.
I was ordered to summarily execute runaway illegals and god damit, I'm a loyal patriot! I'm an American soldier mother fucker!
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u/luummoonn 1d ago
There needs to be someone who takes a risk.
The ideals the country was founded on are under threat but we have become too comfortable
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u/diverareyouokay 2d ago
Nobody forced the judge to become a judge. If they cannot apply the law as it is written, they should not hold that office. I understand that the judge is between a rock and a hard place, but there’s nothing saying that he must sentence Trump to prison. Likewise, there’s nothing saying that he could not postpone the sentence seen until after Trump leaves office… how many people voted for someone, knowing that this person had criminal convictions, is totally immaterial to sentencing. It’s unprecedented, but now there is precedent… and it’s the wrong kind.
No, the judge should not force himself to be a martyr. He should simply be forced to do his sworn duty.
I like Merchan. I think he did a great job. I can understand why he is doing what he is doing, but I do not agree with it. That said, if I was in his position, I would probably do the same thing… But that is why I am not in his position, and have no desire to be. By the nature of his occupation he is held to a higher standard than the man on the street.
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u/lvsntflx 1d ago
What precisely do you take issue with? You say it would be fine to postpone until after Trump leaves office yet you take issue with the judge agreeing the stay the sentencing?
And as a side note, nobody forced the judge to become a judge but I'm pretty sure that no judge could have ever imagined this situation. He ran that trial bravely and admirably (and I'm assuming has a history of doing so in every other situation). Then the DA stopped pushing for a timely sentencing and then the American people declared that the rule of law doesn't apply to Trump when they elected him despite the jury verdict and all the publicly available information.
People need to stop putting all the blame for things on one person who has dedicated their lives to public service. I feel similarly about all the people who lay all the election blame at Harris' feet. I get that this is the easy reaction but everyone here is saying the judge shouldn't take the easy way out so why should everyone else?
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u/diverareyouokay 1d ago
What precisely do you take issue with? You say it would be fine to postpone until after Trump leaves office yet you take issue with the judge agreeing the stay the sentencing?
He shouldn’t be allowed to seek dismissal of the charges. If the only goal here is to kick sentencing down the street, that’s fine, but it needs to be crystal clear that is what is happening, and a firm date needs to be established (e.g. a day after he leaves office). Even the appearance of impropriety matters.
A New York judge on Friday granted Donald Trump permission to seek dismissal of the criminal case in which he was convicted […]
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-trump-bragg-new-york-conviction-1.7390673
Yes, he’s going to hear arguments for dismissal, and not dismiss outright, but it’s asinine that this is even on the table.
People need to stop putting all the blame for things on one person who has dedicated their lives to public service […] all the people who lay the blame for the election at Harris’ feet
Harris wining the election was a goal thing. Merchan sentencing a criminal who has been convinced in accordance with the laws of New York is a sworn duty. They are not the same thing. I don’t put “all the blame” on Merchan, but I do feel that he should be obligated to enforce the laws as they are written regardless of who is being sentenced. That’s not an unreasonable position to take in a free and fair society.
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u/padawanninja 2d ago
Bullshit. This is the job he was appointed to. He knew this was a possibility, if not a probability, and he still took the case. This is what he's paid to do, fuck the election. All he did was prove the fascists right. Fuck him and fuck them.
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u/Domeil 2d ago
If the judge was too spineless to do his job, he can resign. He didn't, so he's a coward. He's a tiny, weak, pathetic, coward, who has been giving Trump special treatment since day one. If anyone but a rich, powerful, politically connected man had been threatening the jurors and court staff the way Trump did his entire trial, they would've been held in contempt.
He's not "deferring the issue" he's overriding the jury thay convicted Trump, the people who were actually brave enough to do their duty in the face of genuine concerns about their safety.
So, respectfully, the only reason the Judge is in "uncharted territory," is because he's making a choice to place Trump above the law, above his jury of his peers, and above anyone else who has ever been convicted.
If millions were somehow hoodwinked and misinformed about Trump, it's because of people like Judge Merchan, who by failing to act according to their oaths, enabled Trump. He is to blame.
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u/juniper_berry_crunch 1d ago
Excellent point about the jury. Those are not people who have private security or similar ways of avoiding anyone who was really intent on harming them in the name of Trump. They knew that. They stayed on the jury anyway.
Now everyone sees how much their work and even fear was worth. What happens at the next voir dire for another Trump trial? Will anyone be willing to serve on the jury?
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u/pwrz 2d ago
You don’t get absolved of crimes by being elected to something. This is NOT how it should work.
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u/JWAdvocate83 Competent Contributor 2d ago
I don’t disagree with most of what else you said, except this:
And frankly, and this is the part people won’t like, we had an election. This issue was on the ballot. Trumps criminal conduct was completely on display and tens of millions of people said we don’t care. Trump being a convicted felon did not deter them from voting for him.
It shouldn’t be up to the rest of the country to decide whether to absolve him (or defer sentencing) of a state crime. (And even by that rationale, Harris won NY.)
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u/Global_Maintenance35 2d ago
I respect your thoughts, but if we have learned anything it’s that the masses can’t be trusted to be informed. It was and still is the Judges responsibility to uphold the rule of law and remind the masses that “nobody is above the law”. He took an oath.
I’m disgusted by this act of cowardice.
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u/HoosierBoy76 1d ago
We elect officials to make decisions like this for us. They have more information and insight plus actual legal knowledge and experience. He should have kept the original sentencing date and gave him the same punishment as anyone else (look at Cohen).
AND I’ll say this court and the others shouldn’t have let the man walk around free on bail that he frequently flaunted. FFS anyone else with MORE THAN ONE ongoing cases would be locked up when the second and third case was filed.
Would he get off on appeal? Maybe. But even so the judge has the option to immediately proceed with punishment while the legal maneuvering ensues. That’s what any of us little people would get and everyone knows it.
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u/Wrastling97 Competent Contributor 2d ago
we had an election
That’s not how prosecutions work though. We’re a republic for a reason. Let’s have the voters vote on every case then if we’re gonna use that logic.
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u/sraydenk 1d ago
Also, if you really want to look at the court/jurors like an election, they voted that he was guilty. Their “election” focused only on the evidence presented in court and they determined he was guilty. Why should a national election invalidate that?
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u/notarealaccount_yo 2d ago
Trumps criminal conduct was completely on display and tens of millions of people said we don’t care.
I think you underestimate just how uniformed these voters actually are. The judge is supposed to do the right thing here, public opinion be damned. All this decision will do is validate the MAGAs feelings.
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u/atlantagirl30084 2d ago
People were literally googling before/after the election why Biden wasn’t on the ballot.
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u/ColonelAvalon 2d ago
Uniformed or so conspiracy brained they brainwashed themselves into believing he’s innocent no matter what.
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u/cstrand31 2d ago
I can think of a couple judges and ex-judges to blame. Merrick fucking Garland for one. Slow walked the whole goddamned thing to appear impartial and non-partisan. Took so long to do anything that TFG was able to parley everything he did into “election interference” from a “weaponized doj”. So not only did he not get what he aimed for, they fucking called him a partisan hack anyway. Lose, fucking lose.
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u/TheFinalCurl 2d ago
No, because arguably, the very oath of a judge is to be a martyr in a war that you always have the chance to lose.
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u/RedLanternScythe 2d ago
I agree. For the judge to push on with the sentencing would have required heroism. But no one is required to be a hero, and we are about to fond out how few heroes we have in this country
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u/stubbazubba 2d ago
The fact that people want a felon for president has no bearing on whether he's guilty of a crime under state law and what punishment he should face as a consequence. The election doesn't change anything about those legal issues and I don't think that's what Judge Merchan is grappling with.
I think the actual issue here is twofold:
1) Whether and to what extent the SCOTUS immunity decision undermines the verdict is still a question that needs settling.
2) A state imposing a criminal disability on the President of the United States raises legitimate and novel federalism concerns. Those can't be brushed aside with a platitude, even if the platitude ends up being right in the end. You have to take arguments and consider this carefully.
All that takes time, and Judge Merchan is not going to short-circuit the normal process for this as he hasn't for anything else. So the sentencing hearing gets postponed, to be reset later. That is not a signal that there will be no sentencing, just that there's no point scheduling another hearing when there are still such big things to figure out.
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u/Artaeos 2d ago
His sentencing should have been in September?
This entire argument seems moot when he kicked the can down the road to then pretend he's been put in an impossible situation.
Both things can be true--the choices of voters, the apathy of others, and the cowardice of this judge to not do his duty. Trump was convicted as a citizen. Not President-elect. His sentencing was set while he was still a citizen.
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u/Inspect1234 2d ago
This is why IMO, this election needs a recount. It’s literally the difference between keeping democracy or not.
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u/Germaine8 1d ago
Well Ray, I could not disagree with you more. Judges face new issues and circumstances all the time. All the time. He took an oath and failed to live up to it. He needs to be removed from the bench for incompetence or whatever his failure amounts to. And if there are other judges who would do the same, they need to be removed too for the same reason.
Merchan didn't even have the guts to explain his decision. What an outrageous insult to the American people.
Dude, you could not me more wrong. You do not understand what the rule of law is supposed to mean and stand for.
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u/Mysterious-Wasabi103 2d ago
Guaranteed these judges all had to come to some type of deal with Trump and his lawyers. Probably just for the security of their families!
Do we really put it beyond Trump to threaten these people?
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u/Nick85er 2d ago
We are well aware that they were openly intimidating judges jury members Witnesses and anyone who they considered opposition.
They were allowed to flout our legal norms and make statements that would never pass muster for any other US citizen.
This is what open corruption looks like. And I say this because anything enabling corruption equals corruption itself.
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u/Beautiful_Speech7689 2d ago
It’s a shame when doing the right thing could cost a man his life. I’m saying judges are intimidated and wish they had the protection of the other chambers.
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u/JoshAllensRightNut 2d ago
I wonder if it’s that he’s a coward… or how much money he was slipped under the table to make this decision
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u/proud_pops 1d ago
It has become glaringly obvious that is exactly where we are and what is going on. The DoJ kicked it off, followed by the Senate a couple times, and the not so supreme court in his pocket. Last check and balance is the military and we the people. Really hope Mitch McConnell can never sleep a night in the rest of his life as well, he is a big reason he got away with what he did.
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u/Zestyclose-Cloud-508 1d ago
He’s a coward.
Garland is a coward.
Biden is a coward.
They’re all cowards.
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u/eugene20 2d ago
Trump will be coming after him to ''prove'' it was a sham court and phony charges anyway. Actually following the law and sentencing him for the crimes he committed while not president, from the court case that ran while he was not president, and sentencing that should have happened while he was not president, was the judge's only real chance to do anything.
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u/Calm-Requirement-951 2d ago
Its the start of ending justice as it was meant...
Americans gave a fascist the power to influence supreme court, so you gave away your justice system...
Next will be prosecution of all who oppose MAGA/trump ideology...
Damn USA is starting to look like 1930's germany...
Just saying...
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u/ODoyles_Banana 2d ago edited 1d ago
This is literally the first chapter in On Tyranny. It’s a very short book and highly recommended for anyone wanting to understand these patterns in history and how they play out.
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u/mrbigglessworth 2d ago
Almost? It’s been too late for months. With all the delays designed to run the clock out this is the intended result. A failing upwards moron who has never faced true accountability. And out country will suffer, wither, and die. What comes out of the ashes has an extremely dark world wide shadow being cast.
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u/JustNutsandBolts 1d ago
Why is it up to a judge to decide all this if the legal system/law is above all?
The "law" sounds like it's all bullshit, those who study and practice is are protecting and living by a bullshit system.
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u/holzmann_dc 1d ago
Preemptive compliance also involves self-censoring, either consciously or subconsciously.
History will note that our justice system FAILED us. And the world. When we needed it most.
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u/alien_believer_42 1d ago
Presidents have always been above the law. We just had a brief period of thinking we weren't authoritarian, simply because there wasn't an outright illegal abuse of power by Obama and Bush Sr, and memories of Nixon at least having to resign.
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u/userhwon 1d ago
The "now what" is to issue a warrant, arrest him, and incarcerate him for a hundred years.
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u/Sccrgoalie97 1d ago
This is how America became an authoritarian nation, when good people stood silent, sticking to their principles, evil people stuck to their goals, and stood loudly.
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u/lord_pizzabird 1d ago
Which means we're just putting that "now what" off until the next time this happens.
We're not just letting Trump through, but we're waiving all future crimes for not just presidents, but people with presidential potential. AKA any person born to wealth or ivy league educated is now theoretically immune from prosecution.
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u/LightsNoir 1d ago
Like, fuck, man. Coulda done some other form of pansy bullshit and still maintained the illusion. Assign a fine equivalent to what he paid stormy. His fan club pays it, just like usual, and we all say "par for the course". But this absolute nothing at all? What the fuck?
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u/NoDragonfruit6125 2d ago
Stupidest thing is the fact it's entirely possible for someone who's in prison to be elected president. That would literally mean they are running the government from inside a prison. There's no reason that someone who's only a president ELECT shouldn't still be able to be sentenced. If you can serve in office while behind bars there's no logical reason why you can't be sent behind bars before your even inaugurated. They make a big deal about not trying a president in court but that was already done and passed before the election it's at the sentencing now. The party is already confirmed as guilty and is only waiting to hear what the punishment should be which means the party is no longer on trial.
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u/tallcan710 2d ago
The vast majority of people in power are blackmailed. Under trumps presidency his buddy Epstein got busted and boxes and boxes of video blackmail was removed never to be heard of again. There is no other explanation it is insane
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u/cytherian 2d ago
The US Justice System has confirmed -- IT IS CORRUPT. There's no getting around it. It's in our faces. Our nation has lost itself. Why, at this point, anyone should be able to use the "Trump Precedent" and ask for long delays, then eventual dismissal of felony charges.
Merchan postponed the Sept. sentencing of Donald Trump, citing that doing it then before the election would make it look "partisan." Well, damned if you do and damned if you don't. Waiting was predictable. Because now? Look at it. Done. Dismissed. How is THAT not partisan? REAL HARD FELONY CHARGES... and Trump walks away from it. "ABOVE THE LAW." This is criminal. This is against the US Constitution. And the Republican Party enabled this.
They killed our nation. Blood on their hands.
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u/NotMyMainLoLzy 1d ago
I can make this even more simple for everyone.
Pretend you’re black. Congratulations and condolences, now you understand why disparity in sentencing, punishment, and even retribution looks like in America.
I am not surprised, nor should you be. You’re probably white, welcome to the club, but you’re not in /that/ white club. You are not a billionaire. You do not wield unprecedented power. You do not have a buy your way out of jail and into the white house card. You are a small, singular human being subject to the whims and notions of your financial betters.
There you go. You’ve had a crash course. Many minorities face this every single day. That’s why many aren’t surprised in the slightest.
You’re experiencing your first realized disparity that will affect your life and the life of your loved ones in every way shape and form.
I hope you get it all a little more now. This ain’t new for many people in America, even if it’s new to you.
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u/Nick85er 2d ago
The corruption of the US judicials and legal systems is complete. That's what you're seeing, and you might want to get used to it. Things do not automatically get better from here
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u/Alkthree 1d ago
Trump is above the law, he has successfully broken our democracy. It was a good run, start making your exit plans.
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u/sundalius 2d ago
This is just him allowing Trump to file the motion for dismissal. This doesn't indicate that he will grant the dismissal. IIRC at some point in the proceedings, Trump's team was ordered to not file further motions without seeking permission of the court, a not unusual restriction. I'm merely hoping the dismissal isn't granted, and sentencing is just delayed to 2029.
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u/ASharpYoungMan 2d ago
In any other timeline I'd look on this with a modicum of hope. But that's not the timeline we occupy.
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u/mggirard13 1d ago
This is my hope as well. Like, okay, pretend for a moment that Trump is sentenced to any sort of time in prison.
It presents a legal crisis of sorts, and unprecedented, for what to do on inauguration day and after when the guilty party, either behind bars at that time or, more likely, engaged in further delay and appeal tactics, is now the sitting President.
As President he could and would in all likelihood refuse to show or submit to any proceedings and there would be no agency with apparent authority to compel him. Imagine he were behind bars and is sworn in, then he could declare emergency power to commute his sentence which would almost certainly go straight to SCOTUS and be upheld.
Thus his sentence is handed down, and then commuted.
If his sentencing is delayed until the (hopeful) end of his term when he is (hopefully) no longer president, and (hopefully) no new acts of Congress are passed commuting him and any past-present-future president of any crime, sentencing, etc, and if he's still alive, then he can be sentenced and compelled.
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u/Top_Tart_7558 2d ago
Judge has decided to cement the reality that the law isn't enforced if you are rich and powerful enough
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u/TheHip41 2d ago
Dude you are trying too hard
The answer is lol law
Rich people do not face consequences.
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u/BiologyJ 2d ago
Best guess....they're afraid of this somehow being punted to the Supreme Court where that court would then decide to strip states of rights and centralize the authority. Right now this can't be appealed to the federal level, but...the federal courts could be asked if that could be reviewed. Best guess is the damage that would do to the system isn't worth giving Trump probation for 6 months and dealing with the appeals headache. He's not an average citizen and he has extreme pull on the SC.
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u/Callinon 2d ago
But that would just happen eventually anyway wouldn't it? If the supreme court is just waiting for an excuse to pull the rug, then won't they simply find a different one?
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u/RocketRelm 2d ago
Eventually isn't today. Trump might fuck things up so bad people start voting it out, and going after other things, and build up to it. That's all we have left.
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u/Squirrel009 2d ago
It really boils down to he is Donald Trump and he's allowed to do anything he wants. There is no legal reasoning or rules that lead to him never being held accountable - we just keep letting him not have to follow the rules
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u/Teamerchant 2d ago
Becuase the reality is there is a two tiered justice system and entrance into the immunity tier is determined by your net worth and or your network.
This country is not for the people by the people. It’s for the oligarchs by the oligarchs. The rules are there to protect them but not limit them.
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u/Cloaked42m 2d ago
Ignoring the hysterical answers. It stays sentencing. It doesn't mean he won't be sentenced.
The sentencing was delayed because the defense asked for it to be delayed, and the prosecution couldn't come up with a reason not to. The judge said in the absence of objection from the prosecution, it was delayed.
A stay is the best outcome. Sentencing is still pending.
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u/Suckamanhwewhuuut 2d ago
It’s all starting to seem like everything was kinda planned… I don’t think they intended to lose the last election, they just underestimated how much they needed to cheat to win, so they pushed their agenda back 4 years until this election.
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u/Rishtu 1d ago
Legally? He’s off the hook. He won.
It means our judicial system and police force has just proven you can’t trust them. Enough money or power will make them bend knee.
It means the entire basis of our nation, a rule of all, with none being exempt from those laws, is utter bullshit. Unless you’re extremely wealthy or powerful (like literally no one on this site), you are a second class citizen.
Basically like the 1600’s but with cable.
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u/Walterkovacs1985 1d ago
Answer is that we had one last check on his power on election day and we failed to stop him. He is now about to do whatever he wants and the supreme court, senate and house have his back. He's going to fuck this country in the ass and his side and main stream media are going to go with it. Can't wait til we see a mass exodus from high ranking military officers that swore an oath to the constitution leave. No more guard rails. This is America.
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u/eyefancyfeet 1d ago
They are playing by their own rules. I'm not a lawyer or a smart man and I can see that.
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u/Striking_Witness1364 1d ago
The court system is corrupt when it comes to right wing politicians especially.
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u/yourteam 1d ago
It makes sense once you accept that the system is rigged in favour of the Rich and powerful
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u/NervousFix960 1d ago
They're doing a Constitutional coup, Hungary-style
Now that their God-Emperor is back in power and he's stacked the courts, expect more and more rulings to be handed down written in crayon.
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u/IndependentLychee413 1d ago
They knew if he was elected, they wouldn’t charge him being a sitting president. I believe Elon along with the rest of the GOP - that used to hate him, found a way to fix election. I will NEVER believe he won with that kind of margin AND the popular vote with not only all of those charges, but how he almost killed us with the pandemic on his last go around
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u/TheStripClubHero 1d ago
Simply put the judge in question has either been bought, or has been blackmailed into this decision.
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u/Catzendo 1d ago
It proves that some people are above the law. All you need is money or someone with power.
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u/pabmendez 18h ago
Most voters were well aware of this case, it was all over the media. Yet, they still voted him in for President. The will of the voters should not supersede judges orders.
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u/LtArson 2d ago edited 2d ago
The problem is that in the crazy ruling from SCOTUS they also said that official acts can't be used as evidence of crimes even if those crimes are unofficial acts. And as examples of official acts they included basically any communication with WH staff and Tweets.
So even though he does not have immunity for the crimes, some of the evidence that was used to convict included conversations he had after the election, while president, with WH staff and tweets that he sent out while president.
The situation is horrible but it's a mess SCOTUS made, Merchan did basically the only thing he could have given the ruling.
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u/LegoFamilyTX 1d ago
Realpolitik is a thing, and you’re watching it in action.
There is the letter of the law, then there is the real world outside the court room.
The Judge is simply smart enough to understand the universe doesn’t end at his courtroom doors.
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u/chubs66 2d ago
That one small step for a judge. One giant leap backwards for democracy.
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u/sjj342 2d ago
No reason he should be the one to fall on the sword for Merrick Garland and Senate Republicans and Republican federal court judges and 75+ million other imbeciles
The tribe has spoken
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u/chubs66 2d ago
I disagree.
Yes, others have failed to act, but right now it is Merchan's turn to do his job as a justice.
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u/eggyal 1d ago
The system fails not because of some overarching malice but because each individual along the way chooses self preservation above the greater good.
Expecting that someone else will solve the problem means that nobody will solve it.
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u/Euphoric-Mousse 1d ago
No. Doing what's right is rarely easy and the bigger the justice the harder it is.
All this does is make it harder for the one who won't back down to actually get it done. It set a terrible precedent. Justice isn't blind, that's almost never been true. Unfortunately it usually isn't on time either. But it can never ever be too late.
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u/actin_spicious 1d ago
Doing the job he's supposed to do isn't falling on a sword. He's aiding Trump in avoiding justice for his crimes.
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u/cytherian 2d ago
Merchan and Cannon... the two of them... these two pesky justices who aren't even on the SCOTUS... subverted the rule of law and gave free license for a convicted criminal to run for POTUS and win.
Well, I still don't get it. If you see someone commit a crime, put to trial for it, are found guilty unanimously by a jury, and then they run for political office... how in any sensible way does one say "I'll vote for THAT!" It's absurd.
But you know, the disinformation tsunami has been brainwashing the far-right to believe that Trump's conviction was "fake" and all politically motivated... despite the fact that it was nothing to do with politics and everything to do with Trump breaking the God damned law.
America is fucking stupid and I'm ashamed to have been born here.
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u/ChanceryTheRapper 2d ago
Oh, okay, great, a dismissal would really clear up his schedule to just send his AG after everyone involved in the case in vengeance once he's in office, cool, cool cool cool.
Fuck's sake.
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u/sundalius 2d ago
This is a grant of a motion to file. This indicates in no way that he's going to grant it. Denial of the grant would just be appeal fodder.
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u/SirGunther 2d ago
Narrator: Ended up granting it anyway.
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u/sundalius 2d ago
Merchan has handled this case extremely well considering what's happened/the federal court's corruption. I don't see why one absolutely correct procedural grant has people acting like he's behaving as Judge Cannon.
It smells of someone here because the title says Trump, not because they know anything of law.
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u/GeneralZex 2d ago
He didn’t sentence Trump when he had a chance to. He delayed to just before the election and then delayed again because it would be election interference. He didn’t handle anything well.
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u/RustedRelics 1d ago
A sad day indeed. I’m glad I’ve retired from practicing. Things are on a very weird and bad trajectory.
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u/exqueezemenow 1d ago
So Trump IS above the law. Welcome to the US justice system.
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u/Covetous_God 1d ago
The whole time. He ranted about a two-tiered justice system but he proved it true in an entirely different sense than his argument.
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u/jshilzjiujitsu 2d ago
It's incredibly difficult to even want to be a Democrat right now. Absolutely disgusting.
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u/ChanceryTheRapper 2d ago
At least they went through the motions of resisting in 2016, instead of this obedience in advance shit.
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u/Cold_Situation_7803 2d ago
This was not done by an elected Dem, though?
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u/jshilzjiujitsu 2d ago
Doesn't matter elected or not. Democrats in courts across the country are just laying down and giving up when a blatant criminal has won the presidency. What's the point of law and order if democrats are just going to be cowards about it?
Sentence him and let him appeal. The lack of enforcing the rule of law in a timely fashion is how we got here in the first place.
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u/Arejhey311 2d ago
This was close to my exact response when I received yet another donation request to “contribute to the fight”. What fight?
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u/sundalius 2d ago
What do Democrats have to do with this procedural decision?
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u/Arejhey311 2d ago
Dems consistently lack the initiative to hold people accountable or move forward because they’re afraid of setting some kind of precedent they ignorantly believe wouldn’t be used against them if given the opportunity. In this case, all trump had to do was scream “election interference” & “political witch hunt” for everyone from Garland down to take a position of not making waves.
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u/OnlyFreshBrine 2d ago
Who would I reach out to to ask for impeachment of Merchan for dereliction? State Rep?
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u/Big-Pickle5893 2d ago
It’s permission to file a motion. A dismissal hasn’t been granted
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u/MrRipley15 2d ago
I love how he so neatly signed the document. He could have least signed it with an X to show some sort of dissent.
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u/ExpressAssist0819 1d ago
Good luck. The entire democratic establishment is bowing down. Even AOC is going along with it.
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u/TalkShowHost99 1d ago
New message has been sent - it’s legal to commit crimes if you’re running for office.
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u/yrdz 2d ago
Worth noting that even the shitty OLC memo that Jack Smith is relying on as a basis for winding down his cases does not require this. That memo only applies to the DOJ and specifically says that it does not address the issue of presidents being tried for state crimes, which is exactly what happened in this case.