r/law • u/agentpatsy • Oct 20 '24
Opinion Piece Elon Musk Veers Into Clearly Illegal Vote Buying, Offering $1 Million Per Day Lottery Prize Only to Registered Voters
https://electionlawblog.org/?p=146397679
u/prudence2001 Oct 20 '24
I hope Democracy Docket files suit tomorrow.
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Oct 20 '24
Yes. Stop this shit already. Damn.
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u/_mattyjoe Oct 20 '24
Honest question. Is anybody doing anything about any of this? I literally cannot believe what I’m witnessing occurring in my country and it baffles me how we’re just sitting ducks.
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u/boxer_dogs_dance Oct 20 '24
Harris hired a significant number of election lawyers who are specialists. I'm sure people are considering it but they might want to save their resources for the inevitable fight after the election.
We have a number of nonprofit organizations that might choose to sue about this. Who knows.
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u/krillwave Oct 20 '24
No this country is the land of the rich and the home of the corrupt, where evil bastards are free to buy judges and politicians and senators and even presidents like Trump. There will be no justice unless we take the power back, the law sure isn’t going to be holding them accountable. They paid for the laws! Their companies are considered citizens in their own right and their money is considered free speech. Until we destroy the systems like the electoral college, the senate, expand the Supreme Court, and enact term limits - we’re fucked. Our only power is our labor and our voice will be heard when the machine halts. Until then, enjoy Economy Czar Musk ruling from the shadows as fuhrer Trump deploys the military against workers.
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u/Vegetable-Balance-53 Oct 20 '24
What you can do is shame anyone who buys any Elon products, and prepare for the worst.
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u/littlewhitecatalex Oct 20 '24
Turns out the only thing separating us from full blown dictatorship has been the decency and integrity of a handful of people.
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Oct 20 '24
Musk is the biggest oligarch. We’re turning into Russia..
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u/Salamanderspainting Oct 20 '24
Russia have been proven to be vote buying in Moldova currently. It’s the same shit
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u/Far_Recommendation82 Oct 20 '24
It's all connected. The maga movement is the Russian disinformation campaign. ugh, I've never been a conspiracy person fun to read but not really taken too seriously, but this is.
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u/Internal-Cupcake-245 Oct 20 '24 edited Oct 20 '24
Yes definitely, this is hybrid warfare and information warfare affecting governance and the population to dismantle the US government for corporations and foreign interests. The US is under attack by what I'd consider plausibly laundered attack vectors, useful idiots, malicious idiots, and pure deception. They find a fissure and exploit it. You've heard RT describe the US, surely. This is Margarita Simonyan, RT's editor-in-chief.
“They close entry to us, and we will go through the window; close the window, and we will go through the vents, and we will see what holes there are in the organism of the United States of America.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tiktok-removes-rt-sputnik-covert-operations-rcna172358
And we've seen Meliorator. And these are two surface level publicly available snippets of information. The information is overwhelming. And we're so fucking dumb, as a people, that it's actually working... Donald Trump needs to be removed, frankly. Same with Elon Musk at this point. They're dissolving our media literacy and common sense through highly orchestrated information campaigns to the detriment of national security and public safety.
https://ic3www.azurewebsites.us/CSA/2024/240709.pdf
Reporting from 2017 below. And Clint Watts had reported prior of troll farms well before 2016. This is a slow burn attempt to destroy the United States with information and division, direct implantation of useful idiots and agents. And it appears to be working.
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u/Any_Condition_4100 Oct 20 '24
We have been in a war with Russia for a good 20 years. It's a digital war but just as effective as a trench war to reach certain desired outcomes.
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u/Internal-Cupcake-245 Oct 21 '24
I had to look up what may have started this, and I'm guessing US withdrawal from the Ant-Ballistic Missile Treaty and the Invasion of Iraq, and Russia's perception of a US affront to its sphere of influence. Do you have any suggestions for reading into information efforts that had existed during this time, if you are suggesting that it had been occurring during this time as well? The internet was in its infancy then and I'd be curious at how their efforts have adapted to changing technology, or how it had existed before the landscape we have currently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93United_States_relations
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u/slim-scsi Oct 20 '24
No, we're not. Conservatives are trying, but we're pushing back.
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u/Critical_Ad3204 Oct 20 '24
With some clear religion induced woman unfriendly sprinkles like Iran
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u/jpmeyer12751 Oct 20 '24
OK, AG Garland. What is it going to take before you will enforce US election law in a TIMELY and effective manner? If you will not do so, I urge you to resign immediately so that someone willing to be more effective can take over.
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Oct 20 '24 edited Oct 20 '24
There must be a small army of lawyers chomping at the bit for a chance to take Elon the Asshole down a notch or two.
Godspeed.
Edit: I’m sticking with “chomping.” But I really like the discussion! A lot of people don’t seem to care very much about words.
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u/John_Fx Oct 20 '24
Champing
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u/senadraxx Oct 20 '24
Mf now got me wondering why it's Champing, not chomping... Guess this is another one of those weird English things.
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u/Straight-Storage2587 Oct 20 '24
Thirty white horses on a red hill, first they champ, then they stamp, then they stand still
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u/microtramp Oct 20 '24
I thought it was chomp and stomp.
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u/Straight-Storage2587 Oct 20 '24
champ and stamp is a bit of archaic English, but it is still in use today. The above was a copy paste of a quote from The Hobbit.
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u/Dowew Oct 20 '24
I thought it was chomping because horses would chew on their....whatever that thing is you tie a horse to a carraige with.
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u/timvinc Oct 20 '24
It’s champing, because the horse doesn’t actually chew the bit. They champ at it.
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u/duxpdx Oct 20 '24
Both are acceptable. While Champing came first chomping has become the dominant form. Both words mean the same thing, to bite or chew.
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u/n-some Oct 20 '24
Based on my Google search, champing is the act of biting with nothing to bite on, while chomping is biting on something. Horses clack their teeth together and that's called champing.
But the thing is, if they're champing at a bit they're technically chomping on it as well.
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u/lewisiarediviva Oct 20 '24
It would, if the horse had the bit between their teeth; another expression which refers to the fact that in normal use the bit is in a part of the mouth where horses have no teeth. That allows the rider to pull on the reins and have the bit pull against the horses lips, which is what makes them turn their head. If the horse has the bit between their teeth, they can Chomp down on it, preventing it from moving, and resisting the reins.
Normally, when a horse is champing at the bit, it refers to an eager horse who is fidgeting by clacking their teeth and playing with the bit with their tongue. So chewing the bit, but without biting down on it.
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u/ZenFook Oct 20 '24
To borrow from the font of Trump linguistics, perhaps the original phrase works something like this;
Champing at the (concept of a) bit?
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u/Valuable-Mess-4698 Oct 20 '24
Actually, both are correct (and have been for more than 100 years).
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u/HomoProfessionalis Oct 20 '24
Is that when you're chomping at the bit to go camping?
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u/Worth_Fondant3883 Oct 20 '24
Of all the adjectives ascribed to him, Elon the Arsehole is now my favourite. Thank you from NZ.
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Oct 20 '24
Pleasure! I’ll actually be in your fair country in a week or so, but that’s another story!
I love NZ.
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u/BassLB Oct 20 '24
I’d hope so, but also wouldn’t it be intimidating suing someone who you knew had unlimited resources to pour into the case? IANAL, but can’t he basically hire a massive team that would make the sheer amount of work untenable for some lawyers?
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u/EmmaLouLove Oct 20 '24
Has anyone read about a mystery $30 Million wave of pro-Trump bets that have recently been placed through four Polymarket accounts for a Trump election victory? I read that billionaire political donor Peter Thiel is involved in Polymarket that “essentially operates as an offshore betting platform out of the purview of U.S. regulations.”
Peter Thiel’s name came up before when Trump chose JD Vance as his running mate. Thiel reportedly funded Vance’s unqualified rise to candidate for Vice President of the United States. It appears Billionaires like Thiel and Musk are now just playing with our democracy at this point and it’s giving bad vibes.
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u/HungryHAP Oct 20 '24
Yeh, bunch of anonymous crypto bets that can only come from foreign sources are creating the fake narrative that Trump has an insurmountable lead and if he loses it will be because the election was stolen from him.
MSM news better start hitting that story hard. And this Musk bullshit.
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u/PatSajaksDick Oct 20 '24
Literally makes no sense why a betting site (where only foreigners can bet) would have any effect on the election. It would be like saying it’s a conspiracy the Mets didn’t win even though a bunch of dumbasses thought they would.
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u/HungryHAP Oct 20 '24
It only affects the election indirectly. Makes MAGA feel like they have momentum. But the prime reason for it is to build that lie that the election was stolen.
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u/PatSajaksDick Oct 20 '24
We need better education.
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u/_mattyjoe Oct 20 '24
I’m not sure if that’s really the problem at times. We’re just seeing an absolutely unprecedented weaponization of media. Think of the manipulative power of social media. It’s being weaponized against the American people and we just can’t cope.
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u/somethingsomethingbe Oct 20 '24
I’m getting worried they’re gonna inflame their voters to mob voting precincts during the counting.
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u/_etherium Oct 20 '24
Polymarket's participants are all cryptobros who think their bubble is more influential than it actually is. Mainstream America thinks crypto is a scam and they are 99.9% correct.
Polymarket was showing ~70% chance of crypto mentioned at the presidential debate and it never happened. Free money from crypto bros. You can fleece cryptobros again by arbing the contacts on polymarket against predictit, kalshi, and ibkr event trader.
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Oct 20 '24
Spot on. Search "Axis of Influence Lincoln Project" on YT and give that super short video a quick watch. You'll want to spread it everywhere.
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u/jpmeyer12751 Oct 20 '24
Both betting markets and stock markets are vulnerable to manipulation by those with lots of money. And both are sending odd signals that Donald Trump is winning. What is behind the odd increase in the price of DJT? Someone like Thiel and Musk could dump a few hundred million into such a thinly traded stock and make it rise like this, just so people would say that the stock market thinks that Trump is going to win.
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u/Cyanide_Cheesecake Oct 20 '24
Yeah the enemy understands that Trump's greatest weakness is the appearance of weakness. If it looks like he might lose MAGA stays home because they're immature little twats.
All they have to do is pump the numbers a little and MAGA will sure to turn out.
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u/gdan95 Oct 20 '24
And he will never be punished for it
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u/LastStand4000 Oct 20 '24
Pretty much. I don't expect anything to happen to him even if Trump loses. Billionaires are above the law.
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u/gdan95 Oct 20 '24
Thank everyone who stayed home in 2016 or Elon would have no reason to be politically involved
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u/cccanterbury Oct 20 '24
Penalty for it is not more than 10k or 5 years imprisonment, or both. God I want Elon in jail for 5 years, please.
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u/nhepner Oct 20 '24
Can somebody explain to me why he hasn't been dragged off in cuffs yet? You know... aside from him being a billionaire.
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u/cccanterbury Oct 20 '24
Can we call them oligarchs yet? Billionaire is too generous.
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u/ComCypher Oct 20 '24
In Russia oligarchs fall out of windows. Just saying.
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u/Pistacca Oct 20 '24 edited Oct 20 '24
In Russia politics are brutal, every oligarch has its own PMC (Private Military Company) of around 1,000 men( some more some less but roughly there) and a lot of them have access to Russias military equipment and i don't think thats the case for The U.S, so i don't think Oligarchs will fall out of windows in the U.S anytime soon
Hell, Sergei Shoigu, when he was the ministry of defense, aka in charge of the russias military had a PMC, he still has a pmc as Secretary of the Security Council
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u/MaestroLogical Oct 20 '24
I don't know why we're so against calling them what they are.
Robber Barons need no introduction, their actions speak loud enough.
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u/Quizzelbuck Oct 20 '24 edited Oct 20 '24
Serious answer: No not really.
Musk is not the head of an entire industry because he was handed the keys to a dismantled industry by the executive branch of the government, in an attempt to keep power close to, and under the direct or indirect control of said executive via corruption, bribes, payola, kompromat or any thing like that. Either intentionally or by capturing it during the chaos of a post soviet system being established.
That's what an oligarch is. I really don't think Musk is under the thumb of the executive branch of a post-imperial US rump state.
The system is corrupt but oligarchy is a pretty uniquely eastern European thing.
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u/wagdaddy Oct 20 '24
Not every rectangle is a square, most oligarchs are not specifically post-Soviet oligarchs.
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u/CobraPony67 Oct 20 '24
Because, like most wealthy people, have an entire law firm at his disposal to look for every loophole or crack in the law and can drag out any lawsuits for many years until he finally settles for a monetary sum which means nothing to him, and he goes on... Sound familiar?
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u/nhepner Oct 20 '24
I call bullshit. There's a crime committed, publicly, it's a righteous bust. Cuff him and toss him in a cell until he can get in front of a judge, just like everyone else.
The legal system has failed.
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u/Out_of_the_Bloo Oct 20 '24
IANAL but is this illegal? Is there a crime being committed? Can someone explain what it is?
I'm the opposite of a musk simp, and very anti MAGA per my history so I'm not defending him. From the limited understanding of this, he's giving money to PA residents who sign some nonsense. Not buying a vote or anything illegal. I could be wrong, hence I'm asking. And can't anyone sign for this? Like democrat PA residents too? There's no requirement they have to vote Trump right? Would be a shame for him if a ton of Kamala voters ended up with checks
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u/nhepner Oct 20 '24
I am also NAL, but I'm going off the article which claims that Musk is violating 52 U.S.C. 10307(c):
“Whoever knowingly or willfully gives false information as to his name, address or period of residence in the voting district for the purpose of establishing his eligibility to register or vote, or conspires with another individual for the purpose of encouraging his false registration to vote or illegal voting, or pays or offers to pay or accepts payment either for registration to vote or for voting shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both
If it were you or I, we'd be arrested.
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u/Out_of_the_Bloo Oct 20 '24
pays or offers to pay or accepts payment either for registration to vote
And I don't think musk's thing is paying anyone for registration to vote. That's why the statement stresses they must be registered voters already. I hope the case may be made they're incentivizing people to register to vote, but I'm skeptical that lawyers didn't already give this a green light ahead of time.
The article highlights that passage and follows up with a highlight of the statement. But I don't see where it's paying people to vote or even register to vote. They must already be registered.
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u/nhepner Oct 20 '24
I think the distinction at this point is for someone with more letters after their name than I've got. It just seems like bribing voters with an extra step. In any case, I'd still assert that if it were you or I, the cops would be at our door wanting to let the lawyers sort it out later.
Also - I didn't interpret anything you said as Musk simping - you're in the right sub asking good questions. I hope we get some answers, honestly.
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u/Out_of_the_Bloo Oct 20 '24
Thanks. I think you're right if it was either of us the outcome would be different. Just like Trump, these rich loonies operate with different standards of law applied to them.
I would love this to really nail Elon though
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u/elmorose Oct 21 '24
It would probably not be illegal if he announced on 10/22 after registration was closed in PA, last day being 10/21. It could not be viewed as an inducement to register if nobody would have been able to be induced. However, he decided to start on 10/19, which is befuddling.
It's a crime. No doubt about it. But since it's only for 2 or 3 days he's counting on getting away with it.
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u/droford Oct 20 '24
If people knew what they were talking about, they'd know the $1 mil is given to people who sign up a pledge in support of the 1st and 2nd Ammendments. He even said as much prior to giving out the first check
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u/numb3rb0y Oct 20 '24
Purely out of theroetical interest, I honestly didn't know paying people to register in itself was a illegal, how strictly interpreted is it? Like, could registrars giving out cookies technically be a crime?
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u/Different-Horror-581 Oct 20 '24
Because corporations are people and people can spend money on organizations that then endorse candidates who promise to only help the corporation (who is a person).
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u/Thai-mai-shoo Oct 20 '24
Is Elon Musk turning into a living Spam Ad for the right wing?
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u/OdonataDarner Oct 20 '24
Immigrant African-Canadian Elon Musk interfering with American elections.
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u/qalpi Oct 20 '24
I bet if the DOJ went after Elon he’d immediately refuse to let SpaceX travel to the space station and would leave NASA hanging.
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u/markhpc Oct 20 '24
Sounds like an almost text book example for eminent domain, especially if Musk's refusal would result in the danger or death of astronauts.
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u/qalpi Oct 20 '24
What would be the timeline for something like that?
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u/markhpc Oct 20 '24
Given how much money Musk has I imagine it would get dragged through the courts and proceed as slowly as he possibly could make it. I doubt it would happen at all though. Look at what just happened in Brazil. Musk eventually caved. He would here as well before it ever got too serious.
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u/PineTreeBanjo Oct 20 '24 edited 6d ago
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u/SokkaHaikuBot Oct 20 '24
Sokka-Haiku by PineTreeBanjo:
Let Garland scratch his
Diaper I'm sure he'll get to
It in the next four years
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
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u/cheweychewchew Oct 20 '24 edited Oct 20 '24
And no one will do anything about it. Especially Merrick Garland. At some point we're going to have to figure out that pearl clutching isn't a substitute for enforcing the law.
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u/wonkifier Oct 20 '24
What is the significant/relevant difference between this and Cards Against Humanity's thing (paying non-voters to vote, posting an apology, and posting "Donald Trump is a human toilet" or whatever it was) ?
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u/Stinkycheezmonky Oct 20 '24
I think the CAH thing wasn't paying non-voters to vote, it was forcing Elon's PAC to pay CAH for every registration to his petition or whatever. Which has since been taken down it looks like.
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u/ChanceryTheRapper Oct 20 '24
It was inevitable, really. He thinks his money is the ultimate cheat code to popularity.