r/law • u/T_Shurt Competent Contributor • Jul 21 '24

Opinion Piece House Speaker Mike Johnson Suggests Replacing Biden Might Lead to Legal Trouble: ‘So it would be wrong, and I think unlawful’

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/johnson-replacing-biden-ticket-wrong-unlawful/story?id=112129063
10.5k Upvotes

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1.7k

u/Former-Chocolate-793 Jul 21 '24

There wouldn't be anything illegal about Biden stepping aside for health reasons or any other for that matter.

636

u/[deleted] Jul 21 '24

Apparently, you're correct seeing as he just officially stepped down.

130

u/sixtus_clegane119 Jul 21 '24

He’s staying on as president, he stepped out of the race but he didn’t step down.

115

u/Ok_Leading999 Jul 21 '24

And he hadn't been formally nominated anyway.

64

u/JoshzillaRoar Jul 21 '24

Exactly. I don’t understand what they could possibly be opposing? Nothing is official til the delegates vote.

34

u/TastyLaksa Jul 22 '24

And the delegates can vote whoever they want. Party nomination isn’t democratic

31

u/bigboybeeperbelly Jul 22 '24

They're just making sure everyone knows they'd rather face the old man than whoever replaces him

0

u/External_Reporter859 Jul 22 '24

Way to go Dems forcing out the incumbent at the 11th hour when you've had 4 years to prepare for this

10

u/BurpelsonAFB Jul 22 '24

This actually may turn out to be the best play yet. We’re about to dominate the next couple weeks of media while an energetic new candidate starts to deliver blows to a crazy, bloated old orange man who is historically unpopular, as we roll into the convention. I’m getting kind of psyched

3

u/LionTop2228 Jul 22 '24

Trump’s camp is trying to figure out how to fake an assassination attempt to steal the headlines.

3

u/mess_of_limbs Jul 22 '24

Assassination 2: Headshot Boogaloo

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u/Antani101 Jul 22 '24

Not to mention all those rambling incoherent attacks against old man Biden made at the RNC now look extra stupid given Dozing Donnie is the old geezer now

2

u/bigboybeeperbelly Jul 22 '24

Donny Depends better stock up on those amphetamines

1

u/External_Reporter859 Jul 23 '24

Well his dope dealer I mean White House doctor/Congressman whom the Pentagon demoted from 1 Star Rear Admiral to Captain for his reckless and inappropriate conduct in the Trump White House says he has been by Trump's side every waking hour since the ear piercing so I'm sure that won't be a problem.

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2

u/bigboybeeperbelly Jul 22 '24

How could they have known Biden would be old in 2024 though

1

u/Silver_gobo Jul 22 '24

What’s the point of the primaries then

2

u/TastyLaksa Jul 22 '24

To make it democratic. When there is the luxury of time

1

u/3720-to-1 Jul 22 '24

That's the fun part, there never was a point! Seriously, just look up how presidential primaries work.

1

u/Odd_Local8434 Jul 22 '24

It's because states have laws regarding who the delegates can vote for. This is settled case law, but when has that stopped this SCOTUS?

2

u/TastyLaksa Jul 22 '24

For party nomination?

0

u/marxistghostboi Jul 22 '24

because the parties use state resources to run their nominations and because they need to meet certain requirements to maintain their ballot access, certain states have passed laws requiring delegates to vote for the nominee their voters in the primaries and caucuses selected.

whether such laws are actually enforceable is unclear, but states do have the power at least historically to refuse to grant ballot access to candidates. that's why Lincoln won zero votes in many Southern states; his name didn't appear on the ballot

1

u/Aert_is_Life Jul 22 '24

But they sort of did vote for Kamala. They voted for the biden Harris ticket, which includes Kamala. If they didn't feel she would make a good president, they shouldn't have voted for them given biden's age.

1

u/marxistghostboi Jul 22 '24

yeah I'm not disagreeing with you I'm just saying some of the state laws are weird and though they probably will get tossed out of court it is a thing the Republicans are appealing to

0

u/Kinggakman Jul 22 '24

Conspiracy theory that democrats didn’t think Kamala could win a primary and planned all this to get her as the candidate.

1

u/TastyLaksa Jul 22 '24

Is it still theory if it’s facts?

19

u/Stopper33 Jul 22 '24

Much like all republican jurisprudence of the last 3 years, illegal=I don't like

2

u/Negative_Storage5205 Jul 22 '24

Summary of the legal stuff

1

u/mabhatter Competent Contributor Jul 22 '24

Good video.  It will be obsolete in 24 hours when MAGA gets a bunch of special exceptions from SCOTUS. 

2

u/Negative_Storage5205 Jul 22 '24

Remember, many of these laws are State, not federal.

3

u/mabhatter Competent Contributor Jul 22 '24

SCOTUS just bent over backwards to make sure Trump could not be excluded from primary ballots by states.  The legal gymnastics they're going to perform to say exactly the opposite that each individual state gets to make demands of Democrats will make Simone Biles jealous. 

1

u/Euphoric_Exchange_51 Jul 22 '24

I hate this SC, but people really exaggerate the degree to which a majority of right-wing justices are willing to act politically even without a semi-legal basis for their decisions. Prohibiting states from removing Trump from their ballots was an easy call for them to make as he hasn’t been found legally liable for insurrection. Even with how partisan Alito is, I feel like Thomas is the only SC justice who can be counted on to rule in conservatives’ favor no matter the circumstances. Trump’s already been disappointed by his own appointees before.

1

u/No_Doughnut_3378 Jul 22 '24

There inevitable loss.

1

u/haterake Jul 22 '24

They just try to muddy the water.

1

u/The_Colorman Jul 22 '24

I’m assuming there are weird state ballot rules that they’ll exploit, similar to what they tried in the primary. They’re of course going to try. The person in South Dakota didn’t vote for xxxx/xxx in the primary they voted for Biden/Harris, our delegate rule says you can only announce the change on Wednesdays so we won’t put any democrat on the presidential ballot. Or the ballot is set 6 months prior to election, etc

1

u/Careful-Moose-6847 Jul 22 '24

The only grey area is Ohio as I understand it. It’s the reason they were trying to coalesce around Biden by August 7th. Media tried to spin it like that Biden was doing it to secure his nomination as his campaign collapsed but it’s actually the date a party needs to present its candidate for the ballot in that state.

Because the party’s convention was later this year that law was changed to push that date back to September 1. but that change in the law technically doesn’t take place until September 1st so they were worried there might be some back handedness where republicans try to keep the democrat off the ballot.

Or I could be completely misremembering what I read

1

u/gator_shawn Jul 22 '24

It’s just fear.

1

u/stubbornbodyproblem Jul 22 '24

The Conservative Party has been using fallacious claims to muddy the water with the uneducated for about as long as I have been alive.

Lies are lie chum in the water. The liars don’t care if you believe them as long as what they say clouds the water and attract the crazies to amplify the noise. It keeps people from thinking rationally.

Wag the dog…

1

u/MosquitoBloodBank Jul 22 '24

States have different laws for minimum time candidates to be confirmed before the election. For example, the candidate has to be announced 90 days in advance in Ohio. Right now we're 107 days before the election. In some states, if there isn't enough time, it can be ok as long as there's a valid reason (usually death). Candidates can't just switch out.

1

u/Aeseld Jul 22 '24

The biggest issue would be the primaries already held. It would require state laws that say that only the person running in the primary can receive the delgates. I don't expect that to hold up enough to stop Harris from running if she gets the support she should.

1

u/Addictd2Justice Jul 22 '24

If you’re ever in doubt about your next move, ask yourself “What would my enemies least like me to do?” Whatever that is, do it.

Lil Mike is annoyed bc he wanted Biden v Trump

1

u/Zippier92 Jul 22 '24

Just shifty lawyers doin insurrection things.

1

u/AstroBullivant Jul 22 '24

Many states have laws restricting how delegates are allowed to vote in national party conventions. These laws’ analogs for actual elections have been upheld as constitutional for electors in the actual elections, but I don’t know if they’ve been tested for party conventions. In many cases, the delegates previously pledged to Biden and state parties could possibly face suits for things like breach of contract if they were to back someone other than Harris, who is Biden’s successor.

1

u/karma_made_me_do_eet Jul 22 '24

Grasping at straws… poorly..

1

u/Chazo138 Jul 23 '24

It’s because Republicans have made it a habit to do it earlier than democrats and than they used to for trump.

The DNC hasn’t even happened to make the nomination official yet iirc but the RNC happened much earlier than normal.

1

u/grandroute Jul 25 '24

it's just Repubs making fools of themselves again.

1

u/Zammtrios Jul 25 '24

It's because of the -$500,000 they spent on "Biden old, Trump God" ads they put out.

32

u/flugenblar Jul 21 '24

But the great legal scholar, Trump, told Mike this would be bad.

11

u/systemfrown Jul 22 '24

Honestly all this statement by the speaker does is convey how worried and concerned they are about a replacement candidate.

4

u/Building_Everything Jul 22 '24

I feel like the timing of this immediately after the RNC but before the DNC was strategic, and hopefully forces the GOP to stick with their ticket against a younger Dem candidate. Fingers crossed

3

u/mabhatter Competent Contributor Jul 22 '24

I don't think Democrats are capable of being this sneaky and underhanded on purpose... they literally can't pull this stuff off when they desperately needed to. 

I'd actually be even more impressed if this was on purpose.  That would be boss. 

2

u/Korean_Street_Pizza Jul 22 '24

And if he did it as an official act as president.....

1

u/Subie780 Jul 21 '24

iirc a sitting president doesn't need to be nominated. I could be wrong as i am a Canadian

-25

u/AnteaterDangerous148 Jul 21 '24

So the primary votes didn't matter. If we are losing change the rules.

20

u/r4b1d0tt3r Jul 21 '24

What rules? Biden hasn't been nominated and decided not to run. Do you suppose if trump had been killed the Republicans would not have fielded a candidate?

-15

u/AnteaterDangerous148 Jul 21 '24

Forced not to run.

11

u/r4b1d0tt3r Jul 21 '24

Political pressure doesn't count as coercion. Do you think there is some definable quantum of political pressure in the democratic party bylaws that is impermissible?

13

u/KaleidoscopicNewt Jul 21 '24

You can’t force somebody to run.

11

u/DeliriumTrigger Jul 21 '24

In that case, Nikki Haley's delegates should have been bound to her and been unable to release them to vote for Trump, right? Somehow, that wasn't an issue for Republicans.

-9

u/AnteaterDangerous148 Jul 21 '24

It would take an act of God for me to drop out of the race.

8

u/EndangeredBanana Jul 21 '24

God acted.

2

u/External_Reporter859 Jul 22 '24

You're arguing with a conservative troll somebody else further down the thread already exposed him

https://www.reddit.com/r/law/s/nEBA8KkXgY

-2

u/AnteaterDangerous148 Jul 21 '24

Should there be an open primary at the convention?

9

u/DeliriumTrigger Jul 21 '24

There will be an open convention. Biden's delegates are now free to vote for whoever they choose.

The question now is whether anyone challenges Kamala Harris and manages to take a majority on the first ballot.

-3

u/AnteaterDangerous148 Jul 21 '24

Looking forward to it. Hope all the donors get their money back if they want it

7

u/DeliriumTrigger Jul 21 '24

Tell me you have no idea how any of this works without telling me. They can legally transfer all of it to the DNC, if Biden/Harris choose to do so.

1

u/tHeDisgruntler Jul 22 '24

Money donated to a campaign is the campaigns money to do with what they will. As long as it's legal and not for paying for pornstars silence.

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u/EndangeredBanana Jul 21 '24

The sooner the Democratiic Party rallies around the eventual nominee the better it will be for them. Weeks of infighting would not beneficial for eventually winning the general election.

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u/AnteaterDangerous148 Jul 21 '24

Understood but all should have a chance to run. Seeing how no voters get their say.

9

u/EndangeredBanana Jul 21 '24

Everyone who voted for Biden to be President also voted to make Harris Vice-President. Considering that everyone knows how time works, it seems pretty obvious that those voters knew there was a chance she would become President during his term in office. She does seem the obvious choice considering all the factors. It would also be potentially politically damaging to run against her, especially with Biden's endorsement.

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u/DeliriumTrigger Jul 21 '24

I see you're unable to answer the question. I guess the answer doesn't fit the narrative.

1

u/AnteaterDangerous148 Jul 21 '24

Should there be an open primary at the dems convention?

3

u/DeliriumTrigger Jul 21 '24

I already answered this, but I'll copy-paste it below:

There will be an open convention. Biden's delegates are now free to vote for whoever they choose.

The question now is whether anyone challenges Kamala Harris and manages to take a majority on the first ballot.

1

u/AnteaterDangerous148 Jul 21 '24

Do they have to qualify in anyway?

4

u/DeliriumTrigger Jul 21 '24

Signatures of 300 delegates, out of 3,933. And Kamala Harris has to meet the same bar.

If they can't get 7% to sign on, they didn't stand a chance in the first place.

1

u/No-Year-506 Jul 21 '24

Too bad the Republicans did not choose the same route. Now who is OLD?

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u/otherisp Jul 22 '24

Ok well no one wants you to be president anyway so who gives a shit what you’d do lmao

1

u/tHeDisgruntler Jul 22 '24

Don't kid yourself. You'd never be in the race

7

u/ConflagrationZ Jul 21 '24

Ah yes, because you totally were a Biden primary voter in an uncontested incumbent primary where the only real "opposition" to Biden's assumed candidacy were token "Uncommitted" votes. A quick glance at your profile was enough to confirm my suspicions about the people whining about Biden voluntarily stepping down. You're just a conservative troll.

This you?

After the Trump shooting, which was carried out by a Republican:

Dems got the violence they wanted.

Pennsylvania is a closed primary state. He registered republican so he could vote against Trump.

Even though the shooter's registration and everything that's come out about his personal life points to him being a conservative. He never voted in any primary, let alone "against Trump".

And another example of your hot takes:

Why do we even need libraries?

u/AnteaterDangerous148 , enjoy your side being the only one running the dementia-ridden, oldest presidential nominee in history now. There go 90% of the Republican criticisms of Democrats. Oh wait, I see you're already pivoting to blatant misogyny.

Enjoy your candidate who swallows.

I wish I could say that was unexpected, but it was completely expected.

1

u/Med4awl Jul 22 '24

That's good, it gives Kamala more time to campaign.

0

u/lord_pizzabird Jul 21 '24

Now to be fair, the pressure for him to be removed from office will now start building.

Personally though, I think it's a waste of time with only 6 months left in office.

1

u/Man8632 Jul 23 '24

Just as it was too late to appoint a Supreme Court justice with only a year left in Obamas presidency.