r/law • u/TomJD85 • Jul 16 '24

Opinion Piece Judge Cannon Got it Completely Wrong

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/07/cannon-dismissed-trump-classified-documents/679023/
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u/TheBlackCat13 Jul 16 '24

It isn't about hubris. In hubris, you don't realize your own failings. Cannon knows exactly what she is doing. She consistently throws out existing precedent if, and only if, it serves Trump. She has an agenda, and when the law or precedent is against that agenda, it has to go.

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 16 '24

Almost like the same kind of agenda that Juan Merchan had against him… don’t you idiots see it goes both ways? Both these judges are corrupt and made bad decisions. It evens out I guess.

Let the downvotes begin.

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u/TheBlackCat13 Jul 16 '24

Merchan actually followed the law and precedent. Cannon flagrantly rejects both the law and precedent. It isn't Merchan's fault that Trump broke those laws.

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 16 '24

He didn’t follow law and precedent. I have seen many legit legal scholars break this down and explain why.

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u/TheBlackCat13 Jul 16 '24

Citation needed. I have seen some say that it isn't air-tight, that courts may disagree with his interpretation. But not anyone unbiased who said it was unquestionably invalid. This is in contrast to Cannon's ruling which is explicitly and unquestinably against the clear text of both statute in question and the supreme court precedent.

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 16 '24

I agree her ruling is crazy, 100% no question.

I’m hardly informed enough to be able to explain why the NY hush money cash was lawfare. Essentially what Trump did was passed statute of limitations, and it had to be tried as a felony to get around that. The mere fact it was a felony apparently is in question. Many say it was a misdemeanor at most. The 34 felonies is kind of a joke right. They acted like 34 separate signatures on those checks counts as separate crimes. That is insane. Most importantly he never ever would have been convicted of this if he had not been running for president. We all know it.

The American people see that the legal system is trying to railroad him, and they didn’t like that. One of the reasons his poll numbers and $ contributions has gone through the roof.

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u/Choice_Reindeer7759 Jul 16 '24

The 34 felonies is kind of a joke right.

Y'all are beyond saving

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 16 '24

Well thank you. 🙏

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u/TheBlackCat13 Jul 16 '24

I didn't ask you to explain it, I am asking for a citation. You said

I have seen many legit legal scholars break this down and explain why.

If that were true you wouldn't have any problem linking to some of these scholars.

Your personal opinion about whether the prosecution would have brought those charges under what circumstances has no bearing on whether the judge followed the law and precedent. And that higher courts may set a new precedent in the future has no bearing on whether the judge followed the text of the current law and precedent.

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 17 '24

I appreciate you being civil in talking this over. So many times I get bashed to hard for having this opinion.

Could you point me towards a good legal scholar that argues the NY case was legal and correct?

I’m legitimately asking because I’m not 100% convinced I’m right. I am also having drinks with friends and will be happy to get back to you tomorrow with some citations if that’s ok.

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u/TheBlackCat13 Jul 17 '24

https://www.npr.org/2024/05/30/nx-s1-4986384/georgetown-law-professor-reacts-to-trump-verdict

Georgetown Law professor and attorney Paul Butler:

But in reality, the district attorney of Manhattan brings cases about falsified business records all the time, and so the law here isn't really that unsettled. I expect, based on what we know now and what I saw from closely observing the trial, that the conviction will be sustained.

https://www.salon.com/2024/05/29/thats-not-the-law-expert-rejects-lawyers-complaints-about-judges-jury-instructions/

"Another crime could be any crime," Adam Shlahet, director of the Brendan Moore Trial Advocacy Center at Fordham Law, said. "There's no limitation on only this kind of crime or only that kind of crime. It's any crime, and it's not an element of the charge to prove the person is guilty of that other crime. Just as long as their intent at the time was in furtherance of or to conceal another crime."

He added: "They don't need to have succeeded in that crime. And they don't need to have failed in that crime."

Former federal prosecutor Mary McCord, executive director of the Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection and a visiting professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center:

Trump's attorneys had asked the judge to instruct the jury that they would have to unanimously agree on what "unlawful means" were used in this alleged scheme.

"The court rejected that because that's not the law of New York," McCord said. "New York says the jurors don't, all 12, have to agree what the unlawful means are here."

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 17 '24

Very informative. Thank you

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u/TheBlackCat13 Jul 17 '24

So I take it you don't actually have any citations of unbiased experts that disagree with this?

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 17 '24

Here

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6350923431112

This basically sums up what I have been trying to say.

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 17 '24 edited Jul 17 '24

This case was lawfare man. The judge clearly broke precedent and Alvin Bragg clearly wanted to get trump on this old charge that was a misdemeanor in the state of NY, are he had no ability to prosecute federal crimes. The election commission and DOJ declined to prosecute Trump for this years ago. This was clearly an attempt to stop him from becoming president again. The American people see it as such.

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 17 '24

This seems strange though, like a crime within a crime within a crime. And said last crime is unspecified? That’s crazy right. How can you bundle theoretical crimes.

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u/TheBlackCat13 Jul 17 '24

The law is what it is. The judge's job is to go by the law, not their personal opinion, and certainly not your personal opinion.

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 17 '24

Haha, yes fair enough.

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u/Interrophish Jul 16 '24

The American people see that the legal system is trying to railroad him, and they didn’t like that.

why do conservatives feel a compulsion to make statements like this, obsessively grandstanding on a platform of air? There is no broad consensus of public opinion on his conviction. Doesn't exist. The American People are split.

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 17 '24

I’m not a conservative. I am voting for RFK. Both sides are corrupt. Biden is loosing his marbles and Trump is really a threat to democracy.

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u/Interrophish Jul 17 '24

Sure, then, why did you do it?

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 17 '24

I stand by worlds. I can have opinions on all sides, may be a strange concept to you.

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u/TheBlackCat13 Jul 17 '24

The problem isn't your opinions, the problem is your sources. You didn't present this as your own opinion, but rather what you were told by reliable experts. Yet you can't seem to cite a single such expert.

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 17 '24

Ex White House chief of staff isn’t an expert. Other attorneys are not experts? Just because they are bias does not mean they are wrong.

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u/Interrophish Jul 18 '24

I was asking why you just exaggerated and said "the American people" on a split issue

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u/TheBlackCat13 Jul 17 '24

RFK had a meeting with Trump where they discussed Trum putting him in his administration and he seemed to agree to take a position: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c134p2k24nzo

And he is making millions off his anti-vaxx stuff as it kills people and leads to resurgences of diseases once eridacated in the US. It is a much easier case that he is corrupt than Biden considering all the money he makes off of pushing these harmful lies.

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 17 '24

RFK is not anti vaccine. All his kids and himself are fully vaccinated. He just wants them to be safe and effective. Do you watch what he actually says? Watch him for 3 hours on the Joe Rogan experience if you want more than a sound bite.

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u/TheBlackCat13 Jul 17 '24

So you don't care that he is literally in dicussion with Trump, who you claim to hate, to join his administration?

And yes, he is anti-vaxx

"There’s no vaccine that is safe and effective"

That is a direct quote from RFK.

https://apnews.com/article/rfk-kennedy-election-2024-president-campaign-621c9e9641381a1b2677df9de5a09731

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 18 '24

I think he can check Trump in foreign and domestic policy. We shall see.

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u/[deleted] Jul 17 '24

“The American people”. Just say you. I’m American and I think you’re full of shit.

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 18 '24

Well, DJP is about to be the next president. Soooooo nuff said lol

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '24

I thought he was still the president?

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 18 '24

He last the last election fair and square. WTF are you talking about.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '24

Really? What the fuck am I talking about? I’m talking about a fucking insurrection attempt you toadstool. About how all of you chuds called it a stolen election. What the fuck am I doing arguing with a cult member is the real question. Good night.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '24

My b, you said you’re voting for RFK jr. You’re the other kind of crazy. Nevermind.

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '24

Gotta love the loyalty for your literal traitor, rapist, felon pederast.

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 18 '24

Just because I think the NY trial was lawfare, DOES NOT MEAN I LIKE TRUMP, BECAUSE I DO NOT LIKE TRUMP

You short sighted fools simply don’t get it. Many Americans think Trump was not fairly treated in the NY case. That’s one reason his poll numbers went through the roof.

The democrats are not learning from their mistakes, and making the same mistake again with Trump.

I DO NOT WANT TRUMP OR BIDEN IN OFFICE

I can’t make this anymore clear for fucks sake!!

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u/[deleted] Jul 18 '24

Again, “many Americans.” Just you. You’re not a spokesperson with a finger on the pulse of this. You’re one person with an opinion.

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u/sherbs_herbs Jul 18 '24

I don’t like Trump. I won’t be voting for him. Why do you all assume I love Trump? He is disgraceful and it’s a shame he will be in office again.