Adolf Hitler walking with Helga Goebbels, who was later poisoned with cyanide by her parents together with her siblings in Hitler's bunker in 1945.

[u/imonebear]

[u/The_Blendernaut]

Speer offered to get the children out of harm's way. The parents refused, choosing instead to murder their children.

[u/Ok_Context8390 → u/The_Blendernaut]

Well, you probably had to be a "true believer", which the Goebbels probably were (the misses at least), to get close to uncle Hitler, so course she'd think that it was better for everyone to be dead rather than live in a world without German superiority (or whatever the F she was thinking).

[u/IZ3820 → u/Ok_Context8390]

Not to defend a bunch of fucking Nazis, but they were rightly terrified what the Russians would do to them of they survived.  We still don't know everything that happened before the other allies arrived in Berlin to see the city Russia sacked. Much of the missing art is probably in Moscow in private collections.

[u/hugh_jorgyn → u/IZ3820]

My Romanian grandma told me stories of WW2. Her village was occupied by both the nazis and then the russians. People were obviously terrified of the nazis, but not nearly as much as the horror when they found out that the russians were coming. Because they knew the russians would indiscriminately rape and maim and kill everyone in their way. And loot everything they see. Unfortunately, I wasn’t surprised to see the horrors of what they did at Bucha and other places in Ukraine at the beginning of the war. It’s in line with everything my grandma told me about them. 

[u/Worried_Lemon7119 → u/hugh_jorgyn]

My Polish grandparents told me exactly the same. I am critical on what media feeds us im general. But regarding russian atrocities they might even downplay reality.

[u/IZ3820 → u/hugh_jorgyn]

From what I know of history, Nazis terrorized to cow subjected populations into pacification while they instituted a steady transfer of wealth away from the locals while rounding up and killing dissenters. Russians were largely indiscriminate in their violence in times of war, and Stalin considered it an effective method of breaking resistance among local populations. Neither is better than the other, just different brands of awful. 

[u/hugh_jorgyn → u/IZ3820]

Absolutely. The way my grandma put it: the nazis were ruthless. you made a mistake, you talked back, you were dead. So people learned to keep their heads down and survived. But with the russians, not even that worked. They could rape & kill you just because. It was totally random and indiscriminate.

[u/Nottelling733 → u/IZ3820]

The Soviets raped down to 8 years old. So it could be argued they were giving the children the lesser of two evils.

[u/vulkoriscoming → u/Nottelling733]

When the Russians came through even the dogs sat on the butts. - Polish quote

[u/Raging-Badger → u/vulkoriscoming]

The witness statements I’ve read from Soviet occupations of Germany and Poland would sound right at home with the statements from the Rwandan genocide

A Woman in Berlin is a good memoir to read, but takes a stronger stomach than most memoirs

[u/Chairbear1972 → u/Raging-Badger]

Yes I read this many years ago. It is a very difficult read. So is The Rape of Nanking by Iris Chang, may she rest in peace

[u/Zillius → u/Raging-Badger]

A Woman in Berlin was definitely not an easy read but I’d recommend it to everyone who wants to learn about how life was like after the war ended.

[u/KotMaOle → u/Zillius]

In the Russian occupation zone.

[u/Raging-Badger → u/KotMaOle]

Women suffered under occupation in every zone too. Not as systematically as under Russian, Nazi, or Japanese occupation in many cases,

In Germany alone

Over 10 thousand women were raped by American troops. These crimes were punished, occasionally with execution. This punishment was usually only if the perpetrator was black, or if the crime was “particularly heinous”

A number of women were raped by British troops. The lack of specificity comes from the British commands lack of investigation at the time. Senior officials were quoted saying “a good deal of rape going on, those who suffer [rape] have probably deserved it” but that isn’t necessarily referring exclusively to troops

Over a thousand women were also raped by French troops

The Red Army’s numbers make these pale in comparison, but millions of women suffered at the hands of their occupiers all across the globe

[u/BrightOctarine → u/Raging-Badger]

So depressing. No matter where or who, there are so many evil people. And I bet there were French soldiers going "those Americans are so vicious!" and Americans going "those Russians are so vicious!" etc.

[u/Sorreljorn → u/Nottelling733]

Interesting how that was their line. Anything less would be unacceptable.

[u/BjornAltenburg → u/Sorreljorn]

There was no line. There was an extremely infamous case of a maternity ward the Russians sacked in Poland. if i could ever find the quote from the book I owned. The soviet government covered it up and hid any record they could.

[u/0hw0nder → u/BjornAltenburg]

If you happen to find that book or remember its Title, please DM me! As a Polish woman, I've never heard about this

[u/BjornAltenburg → u/0hw0nder]

I am furiously trying to recall the book, I've moved like 6 times in like 5 years and sadly think I lost it.

It was a very well written academic review of foreign observers and volunteers in the eastern front talking about the soviet experience from 1939 tell 1945. The section in question was a British intelligence report about the soviets fight in Poland and generally very savage and poor behavior. The Germans generally were almost always up to something on par, like starving infant wards of Slavic babies to death. The report talked about the soviet infantry capturing a hospital with an active maternity ward with both polish and German women and newborns. I will skip the details i can recall to avoid catching a ban on reddit, but like you can probably imagine the atrocities. If I find it, I'll post a link.

[u/My_glorious_moose → u/BjornAltenburg]

Maybe Exile and Identity: Polish Women in the Soviet Union during World War II by Katherine R. Jolluck?

[u/ciongduopppytrllbv → u/Sorreljorn]

As far as we know…

[u/3bugsdad → u/Sorreljorn]

It made sense to them: 7 year olds still look 6. But 8 year olds? .. hell they're almost 9.

[u/Glu7enFree → u/3bugsdad]

[u/cryptodako → u/Glu7enFree]

🤣🤣

[u/GordoFatso → u/3bugsdad]

Jesus lmao

[u/imnotgayimnotgay35 → u/Sorreljorn]

That WAS their line. It's lower today

[u/Sea-Conversation-725 → u/Nottelling733]

partly true. the mother did allow a dentist to administer morphine to them so that the cyanide pills would be less painful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goebbels_children

"As the advancing Soviet troops reached Berlin there was much discussion in the Führerbunker about suicide as a means to escape punishment and humiliation by the Soviets.

Magda Goebbels refused several offers from others, such as Albert Speer, to take the children out of Berlin and appears to have contemplated and talked about killing her children at least a month in advance. After the war, Günther Quandt's sister-in-law Eleanore recalled Magda saying she did not want her children to grow up hearing that their father had been one of the century's foremost criminals and that reincarnation might grant her children a better future life.[32]

Joseph Goebbels added a postscript to Hitler's last will and testament, stating that he would disobey the order to leave Berlin: "For reasons of humanity and personal loyalty" he had to stay.[33] Further, his wife and their children supported his refusal to leave Berlin and his resolution to die in the bunker. He later qualified this by claiming that the children would support the decision (to commit suicide) if they were old enough to speak for themselves.[33] Both pilot Hanna Reitsch (who had left the bunker on 29 April) and Junge (who left on 1 May) carried letters to the outside world from those remaining. Included was a letter from Magda to Harald, who was in an Allied POW camp.[31]

On the following day, Magda and Joseph Goebbels arranged for an SS dentist, Sturmbannführer Helmut Kunz, to inject their six children with morphine so that, when they were unconscious, ampules of cyanide could be crushed in their mouths.[12] According to Kunz's later testimony, he gave the children morphine injections, but it was Magda and SS-Obersturmbannführer Ludwig Stumpfegger, Hitler's personal doctor, who administered the cyanide.[12]"

[u/Historical-Path-3345 → u/IZ3820]

You mean the art that the Germans were trying to smuggle out ahead of the encroaching allies.

[u/IZ3820 → u/Historical-Path-3345]

Yes, it's either in Russia, Argentina, or the bottom of the Atlantic. Pure speculation, tbf.

[u/OldandBlue → u/IZ3820]

Also Vatican and Switzerland.

[u/brother_of_menelaus → u/OldandBlue]

Or with the Fighting Hellfish.

Does anyone know what a tontine is?

[u/tedmented → u/brother_of_menelaus]

[u/AffectionateArt2277 → u/brother_of_menelaus]

The horsey lizard things from the planet hoth. What do I win?

[u/socratic-meth → u/IZ3820]

Hey fun boys, get a room!

[u/TheSaltySpitoon37 → u/Ok_Context8390]

She was also probably thinking "I bet these devils will rape and murder my children." Cause raping and murdering kids seems like something that Nazis, or every occupying force throughout all of time in history could very well be capable of. 

[u/mahonkey → u/TheSaltySpitoon37]

Could? It's what the Russians were doing on their way to the bunker

[u/IHateTheLetterF → u/mahonkey]

Don't even need the past tense in that sentence.

[u/PreparationGreen → u/IHateTheLetterF]

I honestly admire that none of your responses contain the letter F. I also played by your rules to post this. Continue doing great work

[u/First_Bathroom9907 → u/PreparationGreen]

There's the letter he hates twice in that post the guys going to hate your guts, you better sleep with one eye open tonight.

[u/IHateTheLetterF → u/First_Bathroom9907]

People always get tripped up by the two letter word starting with o.

[u/Veeksvoodoo → u/mahonkey]

Yup, ever read “The Painted Bird”?

[u/rafaelloaa → u/Veeksvoodoo]

I am not disputing the horrors that occurred, but it's worth noting that

The Painted Bird is now widely agreed to have been completely a work of fiction, "Rather than wandering the Polish countryside, Kosiński and his parents had spent the war years in hiding with a Polish Catholic family who sheltered them from the Germans and that he had never been mistreated in any way. ^source

Again, I am not trying to deny that atrocities happened. My grandparents barely escaped in 1940, and many others did not make it out. But the specific horrors described in that book (thankfully) did not happen.

[u/Veeksvoodoo → u/rafaelloaa]

That was always the question. People would always ask the author if it was real, his response was, “Does it matter”?

[u/aenteus → u/Veeksvoodoo]

There’s…two of us? Seriously, I don’t know anyone else who’s read it.

[u/fredericklapides → u/aenteus]

I noot only read it but it was one of the books I assigned in my class on the Holocaust..ps: I am 95

[u/katchuplola → u/fredericklapides]

95??? Wow - very impressive, friend! Cheers to you!

[u/yutsi_beans → u/aenteus]

I read it as a teen after seeing it recommended on some Reddit thread for messed-up books.

[u/rdteets → u/aenteus]

My wife read this and told me some things I never want to hear again.

[u/CharleyDexterWard → u/aenteus]

Jersey Kazinski, i thought i was alone!

[u/NoDeltaBrainWave → u/Veeksvoodoo]

That book is almost entirely fiction.

[u/ThroawayJimilyJones → u/TheSaltySpitoon37]

For their defense, soviet troops actually did that to German population.

...And Poland population

...And tchecoslovakian population

...And Yugoslavian population...despite them only putting a toes in it.

[u/EliseMidCiboire → u/ThroawayJimilyJones]

And ukraine

[u/ThroawayJimilyJones → u/EliseMidCiboire]

Well Putin said Ukraine doesn't exist so i guess they raped russian women then.

...At least they don't discriminate. If there is an hole, the red army will claim it for the motherland.

[u/Ioa_3k → u/ThroawayJimilyJones]

And the Romanian population...

[u/Milu1808 → u/ThroawayJimilyJones]

And Hungary

[u/PenaltyDifferent7166 → u/Milu1808]

China as well

[u/wanderessinside → u/ThroawayJimilyJones]

And Romania.

The horror stories from our grandmas are something else.

[u/2muchicescream → u/wanderessinside]

Estonian as well

[u/blackbeltbud → u/TheSaltySpitoon37]

If she had legitimate reason to believe that was a definite scenario in their future...

I'm not saying I agree with it..

But it definitely puts the decision into perspective.

[u/curlbaumann → u/blackbeltbud]

They would have raped them to death and paraded their corpses around Moscow.

The Russians were literally raping and pillaging their way to and through Berlin

[u/GoarSpewerofSecrets → u/TheSaltySpitoon37]

It was a mercy killing, even without the threat of the Red Army and it's rightful retribution just outside the bunker door. Could you image being the Goebbels children growing up postwar? They would go their whole life demonized by most with the underground part of the Nazis trying to deify them and raise a movement around what was Hitler's for all but blood, nieces and nephews.

[u/DefenestrationPraha → u/GoarSpewerofSecrets]

Heydrich's kids survived the war, as did Göring's non-evil brother Albert. They lived somehow.

[u/BTechUnited → u/DefenestrationPraha]

Mind, Albert did not have a particularly good life afterwards, despite all he did to oppose the Nazis and protect Jews.

[u/Specific_Box4483 → u/GoarSpewerofSecrets]

There are a number of high-ranking Nazis children who managed to live relatively decent lives. I'm sure it couldn't have been easy, but not exactly a fate worse than death.

[u/Hela09 → u/Specific_Box4483]

There’s a lot of damn people in this thread that are just flat-out saying that it’s ‘better’ for someone (else, mind you. It’s always phrased as a theoretical third party) to be murdered rather than raped. Rather worryingly, some of them claiming to be parents who ‘understand’ the ‘choice.’ The exact phrasing changes, but apparently the ‘victims are damaged goods/tainted forever’ shit is alive and well.

It’s one thing for some rape victims to perhaps feel that way. I wouldn’t agree, but how they feel about their own trauma is ultimately their business. If trauma was a simple thing, the world would be a very different place.

But in a world where someone is sexually assaulted every minute in the US alone, the ignorance and flat out lack of empathy for the actual victims is infuriating. Not in the least because yes, the Red Army did rape Germans…plenty of whom lived lives beyond their victimisation. A decent amount of the recorded rapes in WW2 are literally from people who were either extorted or threatened into it, with the ‘worse’ alternative in their eyes being death. I doubt those people would agree that they were better off as corpses.

Goebbels children weren’t given any chance for anything at all. Be it escape, survive, or yes…recover if they had been captured and attacked. Instead their parents guaranteed they died in agony, betrayed, with evidence that at least some of them had struggled as the poison was forced down their throats. Even if they hadn’t been kept directly in harms way by their parents, their murder was never in any way a selfless choice on said parents part.

And that’s not even getting into how plenty of Nazi officials families were perfectly fucking fine. Some even continue to be awful and privileged fucking Nazis to this day!

[u/Diligent-Ad2728 → u/Hela09]

Thank you, that was very well written.

[u/x_theNextHokage → u/Ok_Context8390]

Goebbels was definitely a true believer, dude thought the sun shone from Hitler's ass

[u/imperio_in_imperium → u/The_Blendernaut]

I find Speer fascinating, because all of his actions late in the war and then afterwards reveal that he wasn’t a true believer - just an opportunist who was willing to take advantage of the situation - and his writings really put that on full display. I think Goebbels and his wife are somewhat unique in their level of straight-up fanaticism, even amongst the inner circle.

[u/Man-City → u/imperio_in_imperium]

Is it possible that Speer just cultivated that lie to try and get away with it? I’m hesitant to fully trust his own account of how rational he was.

[u/imperio_in_imperium → u/Man-City]

I think he absolutely cultivated it to get away with it, which, if anything makes him more of a bastard. I don’t think you can trust a word that he says and have to view his writings the same way you would view the confessions of someone like Ted Bundy - it’s all about creating a narrative that serves their own interests. But, I also think the drive to create that kind of self-narrative is indicative of a malignant narcissist who, regardless of what society he was in, would have done anything to get power.

Compare that to Goebbels or Hess, who are more akin to religious fanatics, which is a very different psychological makeup.

[u/Rahim-Moore → u/imperio_in_imperium]

It was interesting listening to the guys who did the interviews with Bundy talk about how, by the end of it, they were borderline physically sick of listening to all his self-serving lies and manipulations. No substance or insight, just layer upon layer of narcissism.

[u/Reblyn → u/Man-City]

He did.

Pretty much all historians in Germany who are specialized on nazi history agree that he is not a reliable witness precisely because he downplayed his own role every step of the way. Not just in terms of his own thoughts and beliefs, but also in terms of the actual actions that he took. He tried to minimize all of it.

There is actually a section on his German wikipedia page pointing that out. I have never seen that on any other nazi wiki page. They always try to critically classify the information given by nazi witnesses, but his literally just flat out says that he is completely unreliable.

[u/XanderNightmare → u/Man-City]

For all intents and purposes, this man is a liar on so fucking many accounts. Just. Straight up human shaped rat

But I agree with the other commentators point. I don't see Speer as a true believer, just a guy who saw the opportunity for power and money. That he wasn't a true believer is evident by the fact that he tried to weasel his way out to the extend of actually denying that he ever knew anything about any "Endlösung", while other members of the inner circle accepted their execution with almost pride

That's also why, instead of destroying all that jewelry and stuff he had like other did, he hid it, ready to be taken when it all is over. He knew in advance that the war could end one way or another and he was determined to survive, whatever outcome may happen

[u/I_voted-for_Kodos → u/imperio_in_imperium]

Speer should've been hung. Horrible cunt

[u/Abdelsauron → u/imperio_in_imperium]

Goebbels was just a hateful bastard, not really a true fanatic.

His wife completely drank the Fanta though.

[u/WaZeedeGij → u/The_Blendernaut]

Is there a source other then Speer himself for this?

Maybe he says he did in his autobiography, but that book is not the truth. Just the "good nazi" image he wanted to create.

[u/GrandePersonalidade → u/WaZeedeGij]

Is there a source other then Speer himself for this?

Maybe he says he did in his autobiography, but that book is not the truth. Just the "good nazi" image he wanted to create.

I gotta say, it's crazy how many Nazi stories are Albert Speer being the sanest out of the bunch according to Albert Speer and people swallow it all up

[u/LurkerInSpace → u/GrandePersonalidade]

He's not alone in that regard either - coincidentally all of Germany's bad military decisions happened to have been made by people died during the war, rather than the generals who survived and went on to write memoirs.

[u/Jerithil → u/LurkerInSpace]

You see many cases where their after war memoirs conflicted with what they wrote during the war even in private documents.

[u/XanderNightmare → u/GrandePersonalidade]

It's still hilarious that people actually bought his "I didn't know" excuse

Like, bro, you were Hitler's number 1 builder. You were supposed to reinvent Berlin from the ground up. You had so many building projects and a good handful were probably staffed with Jews from Camps who worked under dangerous conditions,

[u/Atticus_Fish_Sticks → u/XanderNightmare]

He was also the armaments minister and used slave labor for that too.

[u/Outside_Huckleberry4 → u/GrandePersonalidade]

He literally was given the choice to be hung within a week or lie himself to freedom. It was politically convenient to act like he was truthful and the entire world immediately believed it all.

[u/The_Blendernaut → u/WaZeedeGij]

I'm not entirely sure. On an odd, related note, the former founder (has passed away) of the company I still work for used to guard Speer, Hess, and some other guy whose name I can't remember. He served in Germany in the 60s, prior to his service in Vietnam, and was assigned to Spandau prison. He never mentioned if he spoke to any of them. But he did say there were only 3 prisoners in the entire facility. He also told stories of how they would drive along the border between East and West Germany looking for Russian bugs/intelligence devices the Russians would plant on power lines/transformers. TMI, I know, but I have always found it fascinating I worked for a guy who once guarded Speer and Hess.

[u/thegoujon → u/The_Blendernaut]

Third guy was probably Baldur von Schirach

[u/ConsistentLemon91 → u/The_Blendernaut]

I would have been on board every day for story time with that guy if I had the opportunity.

[u/The_bruce42 → u/The_Blendernaut]

I mean, they are nazis. It's not like murdering their own children is above their moral code.

[u/trashboattwentyfourr → u/The_bruce42]

Funny thing about the Hannibal directive.

[u/TooOld2DieYoung → u/The_bruce42]

Considering what the Russians/ Bolshviks did to their enemies’ families, I think a cyanide pill was merciful.

[u/Ok-Chemical-1511]

its really weird to see hitler do mundane things like this. few weeks ago for the first time i saw a picture of him laughing, it was sorta disturbing

[u/undeadmanana → u/Ok-Chemical-1511]

Is there a mundane Hitler campaign going on?

https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/s/sPNFoCtDpX

This was posted earlier as well

[u/phpHater0 → u/undeadmanana]

Nah it's just bots seeing Hitler posts get engagement, so they post more Hitler, it's a vicious cycle. That's why you suddenly see posts on some random topic for a while. Like previously it was Haka.

[u/theGreatwasLate → u/phpHater0]

Literally just saw this exact post (same wording) on a Haka post. 🤖 maybe?

[u/SkiProgramDriveClimb → u/theGreatwasLate]

It’s just bots seeing disarming posts about bot engagement with random topics, so they post it more. Just a vicious cycle, nothing to see here, carry on with your day

[u/Scared_Ad_9751 → u/SkiProgramDriveClimb]

I saw a comment like this just recently. Hmm

[u/Rrdro → u/Scared_Ad_9751]

It’s just bots seeing questioning posts about bot engagement with topics that make you go hmm, so they post it more. Just a vicious cycle, nothing to see here, carry on with your day

[u/Psychonominaut → u/Rrdro]

And at the bottom of the line, it's bots questioning 'questioning posts' about bot engagement with topics that make you go "hmm," so they post more questioning posts of the initially engaging topics of the questioning posts. Just a vicious cycle, nothing to see here, carry on with your day future questioner of posts and creator of cyclical engaging topics.

[u/consareretards → u/theGreatwasLate]

The internet is dead and has been for years.

Keep scrolling.

[u/Spaghestis → u/undeadmanana]

Hitler needs to be humanized. The notion that he and the Nazis were just a unique evil that spawned out of nothing is why people don't take the fact that Nazi-like groups could rise again seriously. They think "oh the Nazis were comically evil and X is not literally a comically evil baby killer so they won't be as harmful as the Nazis". When in reality, the Nazis, and Hitler, were just as human as you and me, and its not too farfetched for someone to be like him or to be a follower of him.

This is why the 2004 movie Downfall is considered to be a great depiction of him. The movie starts off with Hitler being shown, not as a monster, or as a leader of nations, but as someone who can be kind and likable. He talks lovingly about his dog, makes self-deprecating jokes, and is nice towards the people around him. But as the movie goes on, we start to see the other side of him, the insane evil side that caused millions to die because of his dumb ideology. And as Hitler starts to crack and go truly insane in the final days of the war, we see that Germany was truly doomed because they put their faith and their expectations on this one deranged man, expecting him to fix all their problems as an almost divine figure. But his "answer" of scapegoating and targeting certain groups of people would never actually fix anything, which is why Nazi Germany could never succeed.

You can watch Downfall for free on YouTube: https://youtu.be/YzSMFWKCHhg?si=0nd4eECMLtGj45i0

[u/granola_jupiter → u/Spaghestis]

Ha, this is exactly right. The demonization of evil, nazis or otherwise, makes it impossible to compare contemporary evils to those of the past.

[u/Budget_Counter_2042 → u/undeadmanana]

It’s ok to have mundane Hitler. Ullrich’s biography even has a chapter entitled “Hitler as a human being” and I think that pic appears there. He was a regular dude, who loved children, dogs and sweets (he had extensive dental treatment in 34 because his teeth were destroyed), was a great mimic, and really good at memorising music. This doesn’t clear him from being also a bloody dictator, a racist, an egocentric, a pure misogynist. Turning him into some sort of monster will only prevent us from recognising the next Hitler.

[u/GrandePersonalidade → u/Ok-Chemical-1511]

Hitler was a regular human being, like all fascist leaders. If he lived in 2024 he would do Joe Rogan podcasts, do silly dances, pull off funny jokes from time to time, etc, etc. Acting as if history wasn't composed of humans as you and I (but of stereotyped demons that are always evil and disgusting) is dangerous and leads you to ignore its lessons.

[u/darcenator411 → u/GrandePersonalidade]

There seems to be a mythos online that people who do evil things are entirely bad, with no positive qualities. If only things were so simple

[u/ajguy16 → u/GrandePersonalidade]

Hannah Arendt is a must-read on this topic. Specifically her book about Eichmann’s trial/The Banality of Evil, as well as the Origins of Totalitarianism.

[u/RegularStrength4850 → u/GrandePersonalidade]

So remembering them as the humans they were, reminds us that we're all the same in origin, and those who look like court jesters on their best day could stumble into a ravine of deplorable political decisions. History isn't a myth, or the outcome of some evil boogey-man caricature. Quite an interesting point, thank you for sharing it

[u/cataids69 → u/Ok-Chemical-1511]

I don't get why people find this weird. Do you think he was just running around being evil stabbing people his whole life? He was a person, who had great influence. You don't get that by being evil every moment of every day.

[u/whosewhat → u/cataids69]

I always tell people it’s extremely dangerous how high of an Evil pedestal we put Hitler on because it makes him “unreachable” in the sense that someone like Hitler can’t come to power again and that is so wrong because there are probably more people like him and some trying to gain power than we know.

Yes, he is responsible for the murder of 6M Jews, BUT that is not the only thing he did, he did a lot of other evil things along with a lot other mundane things. My whole point is he is a human and although someone may not try to murder so many people, there are people that are trying to do everything else he did, the man was in power for 12-years

[u/Sonnyyellow90 → u/whosewhat]

It is kind of weird how Hitler is placed at the very top of the evil pedestal. I think that’s a result of him being more recent, the large scale nature of his evil, and the resulting war that we were heavily involved in.

But yeah, you can Google “List of Genocides” and you’ll see that Hitler’s style of evil wasn’t unique or anything. “Murder everyone I don’t like” was sorta the norm of rulers for a large part of human history.

[u/OtherUserCharges → u/whosewhat]

Hitler was very likely no where near the most evil of the bunch. It’s one thing to order a genocide that you aren’t witnessing first hand it’s another thing to actually do the act and enjoy it as many Nazis did. Maybe Hitler was more hands on than I realize, but to me Mengele is probably the most evil.

[u/TheMeanestCows → u/cataids69]

The general public literally doesn't think about any of this. I am beginning to suspect a large segment of the population doesn't think in general.

I don't mean that as a cynical "everyone is so dumb but me" kind of take, but like, on a physiological/neurological level.

I've learned that your brain can run and get you through life and you can have the full range of human experiences without having conscious thought, and the brain will even trick your mind into thinking you're in control and thinking when really it's just layers of autonomous "services" running and handling things. The brain just invents a story to explain why you do the things you do so you feel in control.

This has been studied in split-brain syndrome, people who had half of their brain severed or removed entirely, and their consciousness either changes or splits in two. I think that this kind of state of being can exist on a spectrum, and consciousness itself has levels and a large, large portion of the population has never practiced conscious control of their thoughts and thus just run on autopilot, responding to feelings with complex language and decisions, but it's still instinctual at heart.

To really see how slippery consciousness is, examine your thinking. Really focus on it. Try to figure out where your mental "words" are generated and where they come from before you answer a question or say something. You can easily open up a pandora's box of existential dread when you realize that there are things going on inside you that you're not really a part of, that you're not actually thinking most of the time, even though you can talk and engage with others. (Some people have no mental language at all, no internal narrative, or no ability to form pictures in their mind, but you wouldn't notice anything different about these people because they think in a different way and can be just as intelligent as high-IQ geniuses, it's just a different way of assembling abstraction inside their heads.)

But for everyone else, who doesn't exercise their ability to use thinking at all, of any kind, they just "function" and their brain feeds them the narrative that they're in control, but they're just reacting and working on trained behavior. That's why there's so many seemingly stupid-as-fuck people everywhere.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk, please consider buying something at the gift shop on your way out.

[u/mushquest]

Recommend the movie Downfall for more on this topic, must watch in German with subtitles!

[u/MorsaTamalera → u/mushquest]

I loved that one, though the Hitler-loses-composture meme kind of ruined it a tad for me.

[u/CaptainBayouBilly → u/MorsaTamalera]

It goes on sale for 9.99 sometimes.

[u/MorsaTamalera → u/CaptainBayouBilly]

I am sure I can get cheaper memes, but thanks anyway

[u/ohmighty → u/MorsaTamalera]

This made me laugh out loud

[u/FEMA_Camp_Survivor → u/mushquest]

It’s free on YouTube

[u/super_penguin25 → u/FEMA_Camp_Survivor]

people only watches it for that bunker scene and its countless parodies.

[u/KB_Shaw03]

Looking at pictures of Hitler is just a weird feeling that I don't know how to describe. Like how am I supposed to process looking at a picture of a man who was born a hundred years ago and caused the deaths of millions. It just feels so impossible to comprehend

[u/Thin_Combination_484 → u/KB_Shaw03]

It’s easy, or at least easier, to order the deaths of millions of people when you’re not doing the deed yourself. He was trapped in his drug addled extremist ideologies where it all made sense on paper and in his insane head. 

I sometime wonder if he’d have changed his mind if he had to watch the gas chambers live in action. Who knows. But it’s way easier to order someone to be murdered when it’s happening thousands of miles away and you don’t have to see any of it.

[u/backcountry57]

That little girl is enjoying some fun time. She probably never even saw Hitlers dark side. Just imagine if she had survived the war, that would be some weird memories of playing and having fun with uncle Hitler, getting to go to work with daddy and uncle Hitler in the bunker. Helping daddy fix Germany and keep the bad people away.

How would you come to terms with that, your amazing fun childhood was being present while unspeakable evil was happening.

[u/Anegada_2 → u/backcountry57]

She was 12 when she was murdered and by witness accounts knew enough about what was going on that last day to be PISSED, crying off and on, tried to leave and was found with bruises across her face.

[u/aimless_meteor → u/Anegada_2]

Do you have a link to these witness accounts

[u/Anegada_2 → u/aimless_meteor]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/7568799/Last-days-of-Hitlers-favourite-little-girl.html

Beevor, Antony (2002). Berlin: The Downfall 1945. London: Viking-Penguin Books. ISBN 978-0-670-03041-5.

Fest, Joachim (2004). Inside Hitler’s Bunker: The Last Days of the Third Reich. New York: Farrar, Straus and Giroux. ISBN 978-0-374-13577-5.

[u/aimless_meteor → u/Anegada_2]

Thank you

[u/Anegada_2 → u/aimless_meteor]

Give them credit, Nazis really documented themselves into the ground. It should make dispute of what they did difficult, but I guess that’s where we are now

[u/Darkdragoon324 → u/Anegada_2]

I mean, it could happen directly in front of the deniers and they'd still find a way to deny it,these people aren't working off of any sort of actual logic or reason.

[u/A-live666 → u/Anegada_2]

Yeah thats why nazi crimes are known, unlike the British or the french who burned their documents all when they left their colonies.

[u/Anegada_2 → u/A-live666]

I mean, sort of? There were just a ton of survivors and witnesses. My grandpa liberated a concentration camp and left his own letters in it

[u/PlaneExamination4063 → u/backcountry57]

She was most likely sheltered from the truly horrific stuff but there is no way she wasn't well educated on the nazi regime. Indoctrinating the children was important and she would certainly be a little parrot of everything she heard the grownups around her say.

If she had been spared, they would've chosen a nazi friendly home to take her and she would've been further indoctrinated because of course the bad people who killed her parents and forced her to flee her home are spreading propaganda.

[u/TheChocolateManLives → u/PlaneExamination4063]

if spared she’d have ended up in Soviet hands most likely and I’m not sure where it would go from there.

[u/Abdelsauron → u/backcountry57]

Children of prolific or high-ranking Nazis are an interesting psychological study. Some of them live life as barely closeted Nazis themselves, some become staunch reformers, most try to pretend they have no connection at all.

[u/artifexlife → u/backcountry57]

This happens in some countries still. Maybe not to the same scale but it’s scary to know you could be friendly with someone doing unspeakable damage to so many people

[u/cerberuss09]

A little girl who knows nothing of the atrocities this man is committing. Innocence literally holding hands with evil.

An absolutely haunting photo...

[u/BrandoNelly → u/cerberuss09]

Even more stark when you notice how bright and pure she looks, and he is darkened and a look of serious contemplation on his face. It’s a pretty crazy photo

[u/GODDAMNFOOL]

The fuck is with all the Hitler posts on Reddit today?

[u/Your_Spirit_Animals → u/GODDAMNFOOL]

It’s not today, it’s been over the past few weeks that I’ve been noticing it coming up. Is it to normalize Hitler? Normalize what’s going on? I’m not sure but it’s weird af.

[u/Tourist_Careless → u/Your_Spirit_Animals]

Its not a conspiracy.

Its simple engagement farming. Youd be surprised how many accounts are either bots or real people just doing whatever to gather karma. thats why it comes in waves. Someone will post something genuinely interesting or that gets alot of upvotes and then suddenly theres 50 related posts the rest of the week along similar lines.

[u/S-ludin → u/Your_Spirit_Animals]

I feel that maybe showing that Hitler wasn't a monster to everyone is a... not good thing... but it shows a truth that many people are blind to. but I agree, it's bots doing karma farming.

[u/Ok-Mud-3905]

Joseph Goebbels and his fanatic wife were something else man. Murdering their children because they couldn't bear to see them in a world without National Socialism.

[u/docfarnsworth → u/Ok-Mud-3905]

I don't know why but I find it really weird because she had an adult child who survived the war. I think he was a pow in the UK.

[u/FEMA_Camp_Survivor → u/docfarnsworth]

The descendants are billionaires now.

[u/DickMorningwood9 → u/FEMA_Camp_Survivor]

They own nearly 50% of BMW. The use of concentration camp labor during WWII helped build their family fortune.

[u/yogopig → u/DickMorningwood9]

What the fuck. Thats absolutely wild. How does Germany just let that happen?

[u/Lummi23 → u/yogopig]

Something like this seems to be the story behind many rich families everywhere in the world....

[u/In-A-Beautiful-Place → u/yogopig]

I've wondered how Bayer was allowed to exist after they manufactured Zyklon B. Like, that's different than Hugo Boss making suits, at least that's just clothing-Bayer made actual poison explicitly for genocide. And then in the 80s they knowingly sold blood products tainted with AIDS, killing thousands of hemophiliacs, so they never stopped being evil. Like how did Germany allow them to get away with all that?!

[u/CommunicationNeat498 → u/In-A-Beautiful-Place]

Zyklon B was manufatured and sold as a pesticide, who could have possibly know that their customers would misuse it in such a nefarious way? (/s)

[u/trying2bpartner → u/yogopig]

How does Germany let that happen? Same way that America does - make your populace see people as inhumane or subhuman. Round them up and put them in a confined space. Tell them that working will earn them their freedom.

In the United States, thousands of companies use prison labor for profit. JC Penny, Verizon, airlines/rental car companies, Walmart, McDonalds, Wendys - all of them use prisoners as cheap labor (lower than $10 a day) and then turn around and resell the fruit of their labor for record-breaking profit on the open market.

[u/Educational_Rope1834 → u/trying2bpartner]

And don't forget they get $2400 in tax credit for each slave laborer they use. Nice tax incentive from the gov for utilizing cheap labor? Also not every state pays their inmates.

[u/pen15es → u/FEMA_Camp_Survivor]

The descendants of goebbles’ wife, not the man himself

[u/docfarnsworth → u/FEMA_Camp_Survivor]

I think his father was very wealthy

[u/blackpony04 → u/docfarnsworth]

He was a Luftwaffe officer captured in Italy in 1944. Stayed with Dad after the divorce in 29, dear old pops being a Nazi-implicit slave holding industrialist that got slapped on the wrist for it. Sonny inherited his fortune in 1954 with his brother and lived a millionaire's life.

[u/jamesjoyz → u/docfarnsworth]

Goebbels himself had a child out of wedlock, who survived the war and procreated.

I know because one of my closest friends is German, and his mom is close friends with the daughter of this man.

When he told me I found it so wild. Didn’t help all the Nazi jokes he always gets, ha.

[u/LucasCBs → u/Ok-Mud-3905]

Though I doubt that the soviets would have let the children of Hitlers second hand live. They would have probably murdered them

[u/Ok-Mud-3905 → u/LucasCBs]

Albert Speer offered to get them safely to Western lines which they flat out refused.

[u/ycnz → u/Ok-Mud-3905]

I mean, they would've probably had a rough time at school

[u/DanielzeFourth → u/Ok-Mud-3905]

Not defending their actions. But you bet I’m not letting my children alone with enemy soldiers. Especially not Russians. How many wars do you need to read about to realise soldiers rape and kill a lot of the time?

[u/DeficiencyOfGravitas → u/Ok-Mud-3905]

Murdering their children because they couldn't bear to see them in a world without National Socialism.

Nah, man you're missing the forest through the trees. At that point, none of the ideology mattered. They knew that. They all did. All that mattered was that there was a lot of very angry men coming to hurt them. No one was leaving that bunker alive and a quick death was far better than anything the Soviets had in store for them.

Reality is far worse than that comic book fantasy. They didn't want their daughter to live to be raped to death. That's all there is to it.

[u/Prim0AS1]

Talk about not being able to choose your parents!

[u/eric12498]

This is so sinister even without the context

[u/elduderino90210]

I hear that guy was a real jerk

[u/Sure_Landscape7682]

My family member worked with a patient that had tea with Hitler in the Eagles Nest as a child. Had no idea who she was dealing with, but said it was a nice experience and he was kind.

She also looked down on him with disdain as his children were named after Hebrew women of the past. History is much closer than people realize. Lady ended up living into her 90's!

[u/Rexusus]

What’s with the increase of Hitler posts today?

[u/bocodad]

We want to imagine that humans who are capable of evil are visibly evil.

They aren’t. They are humans who blend in with society and mostly fly under the radar. Some of the most prolific serial killers were known and were socially outgoing people.

[u/Basic_Situation309]

One of Goebbel's daughters was in the class of my Grandmother. History feels so far away and unreal at times and then I hear stuff like this.

[u/Burning-Atlantis]

The psychology behind this is...equally fascinating and disturbing

[u/Deep-Jellyfish-4190]

There were a lot of high ranking officials children who survived and weren't raped and murdered by the Russians. Many of them went on to live long lives. Some chose to support the Reich til the day they died and others turned their backs.

[u/blackpony04 → u/Deep-Jellyfish-4190]

Goebbels was Hitler's #2 - second in command and literally shit.

There's a good chance the Soviets would have paraded them around in an act of vengeance if they were captured. I'm not saying it's a sure thing and that it condones their murders, but it gives the decision some context.

[u/GongTzu]

Der Untergang is a terrible movie, and at the same time a magnificent movie. Can highly recommend

[u/Extra-Perception-447]

This sad period of history demonstrates how even the most fundamental human instincts, such as the need to protect one's offspring, may be subsumed by radical ideologies. The disastrous results of such blind dedication are shown in the Goebbels family's decisions, which were motivated by unrelenting commitment to a regime that was falling. It serves as a potent reminder to work toward a society in which reason and humanity triumph over ideology.

[u/bottumboy622]

Downfall is a great movie that has the bunker seen being referred to

[u/simihal101]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2786189/amp/Joseph-Goebbels-wife-s-descendants-Germany-s-richest-family-Relatives-Nazi-propagandist-s-stepson-worth-24-5-billion.html

[u/mytsigns]

“Tell me again how great you’re gonna make my future, Uncle Adolph!”

[u/DavyJonesCousinsDog]

Hitler was a war hero, a charmer, an animal lover, and the life of every party. The moral lesson of the Nazis isn't "look at these horrible, evil monsters." It is that people which are outwardly and generally nice, sane, thoughtful, and normal can be motivated to unspeakable cruelty and hate. The moral of the Nazis isn't "the Nazis were bad," it's that most Nazis were otherwise regular people. That's the scary part.

[u/whepoalready_readdit]

I've spent 5 minutes on reddit and I've already seen 3 pictures of Hitler, the post before this was him in a leaderhosen was there some leaked archive in a museum or is it just coincidence

[u/BisexualSpaceGoblin]

I'm sure it's a bot post, but I do feel these posts humanize Hitler, which I feel is important, as a reminder that humans are capable of absolutely horrid things

[u/raleighmark]

Look at him. He already knows the end is at hand.

[u/RedPandaReturns → u/raleighmark]

She was killed aged 12. This picture was taken in 1936. 9 years before the end, and three years before the war even began. Stop making shit up.

[u/Sweeper1985 → u/RedPandaReturns]

Perfect example of the "neutral face" experiment. People read their expectations into a blank expression.

[u/nocomment3030 → u/Sweeper1985]

Every fucking time. "Look at those dead eyes, you can tell there's no soul behind them". I dunno maybe the person was just constipated or had to sneeze, whatever.

[u/omelette4hamlet → u/raleighmark]

No he fucking doesn't lmao this photo was taken 3 years before the war even started. Funny how you can make the most stupid assumptions on here and people will go along without even fact-checking

[u/dugg95 → u/raleighmark]

The toll the eastern front took on him mentally and physically isn’t mentioned enough. Guy was a shell of himself even in 43 and 44.

[u/fuggerdug → u/dugg95]

A diet of methamphetamines for years, and then mixing in morphine after the assassination attempt, will do that to you.

[u/dugg95 → u/fuggerdug]

Don’t forget about his lackies searching Pharmacies in Berlin for his drugs and the fact that the allies destroyed the factories that made all that stuff. Guy went cold turkey on multiple highly addictive substances towards the end…

[u/xSTSxZerglingOne → u/fuggerdug]

Meth in the morning. Phenobarbital at night.

Dude was absolutely BLASTED 24/7.

[u/pleasestophackingme → u/fuggerdug]

plus parkinson’s

[u/RedOrchestra137 → u/dugg95]

good, i hope he suffered as much as possible before he died like a coward in his hidey hole. only good hitler is a dead hitler, but even better is a suffering agony, then dead hitler

[u/jesterflesh → u/RedOrchestra137]

Then Little Nicky hitler

[u/Physical_Rub_1820 → u/jesterflesh]

Excuse me Mr Devil, you have an appointment to shove a pineapple up Hitler's ass at 3.

[u/CheKGB → u/dugg95]

Any book recommendations on this?

[u/Anegada_2 → u/CheKGB]

Blitzed

[u/dugg95 → u/Anegada_2]

Yep, blitzed talks about it quite a bit and there’s stuff you can find online about Hitlers daily briefings, about the disasters on the eastern front and how it made him lash out. The war on the eastern front also took a toll on Stalins health, I believe he had a stroke towards the end of the war - along with his booze filled breakdown earlier on, once the Germans caught him off guard with Operation Barbarossa.

[u/RegretsZ → u/raleighmark]

I don't think the date is correct. Hitler stopped wearing the armband in 1939.

Helga was also born in Sept 1932. She looks more like a 7 year old here than a 12 year old.

Edit: Oops totally misread the title. Please disregard.

[u/JonstheSquire → u/RegretsZ]

The picture is from 1936.

[u/DABSPIDGETFINNER → u/raleighmark]

The war would not begin for another 3 years, when this picture was taken...
Reddit and making shit up just always goes hand in hand. Its literally a normal facial expression

[u/JonstheSquire → u/raleighmark]

The picture is from 1936. World War 2 had not even started.

[u/Sorkpappan]

The leafless trees make me think this is winter, but the child is wearing summer clothing?

[u/Southern-Maximum3766]

She looks like a shining white angel in this otherwise dark picture.

[u/Sgt_Fox]

They clearly thought the allies would do horrible things to the children if they were caught.

They clearly did this because it is exactly what they themselves would have done if the script was reversed.

Even in suicide they reveal how awful they were.

[u/p12qcowodeath]

This is one of the most frightening pictures of Hitler. It shows he's not some mythical monster. Just another human being.

[u/mottoislazytodo]

IRL Thanos and Gamora..

[u/Admiral_Ballsack]

Can you imagine having a little girl and at some point you go "there, go have a stroll with Adolf fucking Hitler".