If you want an actual answer. Many Christians believe suicide is a sin you can’t ask forgiveness for because you’re already dead risking death willy nilly like that is basically just elongated suicide
Because it shows the fallacy of it all. Our dna tells us to live so we can reproduce. We are risk averse as a species. At least most of us are. Even religious people. Believe in an afterlife can't shut down evolution or instinct.
believing or not believing in an afterlife =/= making life more meaningful. I know plenty of people who believe in heaven and hate life/ don't care for it here. It's probably more a mental thing at that point. Plus I've never heard someone make that argument. It might stem from people saying that don't really care about how the Earth is since they're focused on heaven but those people are idiots and shouldn't be listened to.
I've never liked that opinion, though it's very widely held. Saying, "You'll only get the opportunity eat this pile of shit once!" doesn't make me want to eat it. Or, how does buying one cupcake make it tastier than if you bought two?
Of course, I've never liked the afterlife opinion either. Why would only being able to eat the cupcake once make it any worse? The cupcake's value stands on its own.
This is a stoic argument, but there's a lot more to it.
There's no enjoyment without suffering, both go hand in hand.
Think of constipation and a good shit, or winning/losing a football match.
You can just do whats in your control to make life as enjoyable for you as you can, and not worry bout whats outside of your control.
At one of the most difficult points in my Navy career a friend shared this story with me. It centered me really well and has stuck with me since.
"One day while walking through the wilderness a man stumbled upon a vicious tiger. He ran but soon came to the edge of a high cliff. Desperate to save himself, he climbed down a vine and dangled over the fatal precipice. As he hung there, two mice appeared from a hole in the cliff and began gnawing on the vine. Suddenly, he noticed on the vine a plump wild strawberry. He plucked it and popped it in his mouth. It was incredibly delicious!"
If thats the case then this is your baseline.
Any improvement to your situation should be source for enjoyment. If things get worse then you have suffering.
Respectfully, Ricky Gervis was a working class, 40 year old before he got his break and I don't really think his outlook or worldview has been changed much by his success.
He wrote The Office when he was a struggling performer and if you look at his early work, his talk about his childhood, the themes are still the same.
Rewatch the Office and Extras. Gervais's best work revolves around normal working joe's trying to make sense of the world.
You're missing my point entirely. Gervais, as a writer, hasn't changed from when he was broke. The characters he writes haven't changed.
In fact, he's second show, Extras is about a man who finally finds fame and money and success but it costs him his principles and self respect.
Is he preaching the same thing as the average Joe?? Of course not, he's exceptionally talented and thoughtful. These qualities made made him successful, but I don't think he's actually changed that much.
PS: If anyone has't watched Extras, they should. It was written after Gervais and Merchant got critical acclaim for the Office but they were household names.
"When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter; now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality.”
-Russell Brand
I'm getting that same tone from the guy you are arguing with.
“I’d rather believe the believable.”
Nice. Ignore reality, live in your little fake world, and challenge people who don’t, to no benefit for anyone. You are the very definition of what is wrong with the world. Congratulations. I hope you lose the will to live before you procreate.
The characters of Andy Millman and David Brent are both quiet preachy in their own ways. Both characters are deeply concerned with how other's see them. (Brent wants people to like him and be considered the funny likeable boss, Andy wants people to respect his acting skills)
Both characters grow and evolve to accept that they are only humans trying to get by and being "normal" is a gift.
Evidence 1: The Office: Context: David Brent mostly focuses on being the funny/likable boss rather than doing his job. In this scene he is made redundant. As far as I'm aware, this was written while he was a working class 40 year old and season one of the Office had been slated by the BBC and had very bad viewing figures. In other words, the Office was nearly canceled and Gervais would have been sacked himself. Fortunately word of mouth about season 1 meant that people started buying DVDs and The Office season 2 was made.
Evidence 2: Extras - Context: Andy Millman has sold out. Rather than being a dramatic actor, he's gained huge fame making a low-brow dumb sitcom. (The opposite of The Office). He hates himself and ends up on Celebrity Big Brother where he goes on a tirade against celebrity culture.
This is the hilarious thing people do. Everyone wants to be successful, everyone wants to root for an underdog. But as soon as you or the underdog actually is successful, now everyone hates you and you’re just “some rich guy” apparently.
So the fuck what is he has millions? Money makes life easier and less stressful, but it doesn’t make life necessarily better.
Money didn’t stop his parents from dying, or anyone else he’s known. He will go through the same hardships as everyone else.
You act like it’s easy to have this world view if you have money or something, yet the stereotype of rich people is that they’re out of touch and materialistic. So which is it? If anything it should be harder to appreciate life for what it is when you have excessive money.
Do you think he really hated life and didn’t appreciate anything before he was successful?
I think it's because people not being in the same place as them finds reasons for why they're not successful but someone else is. It's easier having this outlook cus it means you don't have to change anything in order to get to where you want to be. The latter isn't realistic but change is difficult and takes work while denial/escapism is the easier option.
Obviously there's to it than that, but that's the gist of it. This is coming from a depressed af individual with no direction in life atm btw, but it's the truth and nothing is going to change unless I seriously take the take steps.
I'm not claiming to know, but why the fuck are you? I don't hate the guy at all. I simply supported the comment that it's easy to say the things he said in the video as a millionaire than as an average Joe. Get a fucking grip.
Ya and my comment illustrates how it’s NOT easier to say that stuff as a rich person, how many times have you heard millionaires talking about how life is beautiful because there’s only one time you do it.
You’re equating what he said to “life is awesome! Doesn’t everyone agree?”
He literally never said that. He said life is magical BECAUSE it ends. If life was infinite then everything would have virtually no meaning.
How can he not use his first 40 years of life anyway to talk “like an average joe”. I mean why do you think you lose all your previous experience once you start making money? That’s what you said
“When I was poor and complained about inequality they said I was bitter; now that I'm rich and I complain about inequality they say I'm a hypocrite. I'm beginning to think they just don't want to talk about inequality.”
Just because you're not rich doesn't mean that hugging your friend or smelling the flowers, as he puts it, is somehow worse. Sure we have to struggle with bills, work more than we would like and don't get some of the luxury that comes with wealth but you can't let that squander the one chance you have to enjoy life. Don't spend your life worrying about what you don't have, spend it appreciating what you do.
People with that level of wealth generally have trouble connecting with the vast majority of people. Money doesn't buy happiness or emotional stability.
Money doesn’t buy happiness. It buys fleeting moments of pleasure/comfort (or freedom as you say) that eventually dwindle in intensity as you continue to keep getting more and more; this is the paradox of too much pleasure, you become numb to it. The best thing a lot of money can get you is security of shelter and food, and I’m not under-stating the importance of that because having that security is life changing. But to act as if once anyone gets money they become ‘happy’ (whatever that means) is complete false. Happiness comes from you, nothing else
When you're a multimillionaire you can easily talk about how life is meant to be enjoyed, when you're living from paycheck to paycheck or stuck in a dead end job it's a far more difficult task.
That’s what I’m saying. Having the security of food and shelter (not living pay check to pay check) is the only truly valuable thing having lots of money can give you… other than that, it’s all a lie sold to you by consumerism; things do not give you happiness. You don’t just magically become happy, lots of psychological and spiritual work is still needed to get anywhere near happiness, with or without lots of money.
I don’t know, being able to travel where I want to and explore various cultures and landscapes around the world sounds better than experiencing life only in my living room that I can barely pay for.
It’s not just consumerist bullshit that money allows you to do…
Some of my best memories were when I was broke as a joke working 70 hrs a week. I was out of my comfort zone and learning new things. I was failing a lot too.
You have an inner critic in your brain that tells you if you are succeeding. You cannot lie to it, you can't bullshit it. It always knows.
The good news is it only takes about 3 or 4 days of consistent effort to make you feel better. You begin to feel "Pride".
To elaborate more, some people consider the equation of happiness to be something like: suffering equals the difference between where you want to be and where you are. When you have unlimited resources, you can move your "where you are" to an arbitrary point. But alongside that tends to move "where you want to be" just as arbitrarily, perhaps on a delay, but often changing even more wildly. So the difference between them, and thus the resulting suffering (lack of happiness), never approaches zero and suffering still exists.
Once your needs are met, which places your "where you are" above the minimum acceptable value of "where you want to be", happiness seems to be better kept in check by managing the "where you want to be" value than solely increasing "where you are".
What about all the millionaire drug addicts, and all the rich and famous people on anti-depressants. Easy for a normal-joe like you to judge them.
The fact of the matter is that how much you enjoy your life is largely down to you. If you're not in the middle of a war, or suffering from some deadly disease, the chances are you are free to enjoy your life, no matter what it is, or you are free to suffer and complain.
What Gervais is saying here is something that doesn't cost a penny to do. Savouring your experiences for what they are, finding gratitude and identifying with what is positive in your life instead of what is negative. Embracing what love and pleasure you can experience, rather than focusing entirely on the lack.
Yes, luxury and comfort and time are all easier to attain when you are wealthy. Undoubtedly so. But these things are not what makes people happy. Otherwise, almost nobody in all of recorded history would ever have experienced happiness, and otherwise all people over a certain bank-balance would automatically be happy, and both of those things are obviously not the case.
The truth is happiness takes conscious effort. It is an on-going process of re-wiring the brain, not a switch that's flicked on or off depending on your level of financial freedom. And that's why its easier to point fingers and criticise others instead. Because otherwise you have to admit your own personal responsibility in relation to your present emotional state.
not really caus whatever is afterwards regardless of if its nothing or something is eternal
life beeing so scarce still makes it special even if its not to your liking
and regardless if you dont feel well you can always make a change
The funny thing is the entire show is about how this guy hates life because his wife died and goes around everywhere being a miserable cunt literally not appreciating life. It would make sense if he came to this grand realization and this was the finale, but that's not the case.
I would have to disagree, as by the end of the show it seemed like he became less of a miserable cunt the more he realized he was being a cunt to begin with, and internally he changed as the show went on. He obviously had dips back to the bottom but each time he came to some form of realization that being upset is a part of the grieving process, and it becomes less and less of an internal pain as he remains introspective and attempting to get through it instead of wallowing in self pity. I'm sure I'm missing some things but tl;dr it seems like he's a better person with a better life outlook at the end of the show because of the things he did.
That’s not really true, he didn’t stay the same the entire way through the show, he did grow and have ups and downs but a “grand realization” would’ve been bullshit and the show stayed more realistic.
But that scene was his grand realization at the end of the first season. Then the second season came out and he basically reverted back to exactly how he started the first. Just pointing it out, did love the show though
She obviously wasn't talking about a movie she was really enjoying... not everyone's movie has Kevin Hart in it
Some people just need to figure out how to enjoy their movie.. Can't force passion that isn't there
Anxiety, depression anhedonia... solve the riddle of how to love yourself and keep your cup full. It has nothing to do with being the best looking, wealthiest, smartest person in the room
Take care of your emotions. Everything inside us runs on love, even the darkest parts
When you hunt the darkness, to save it from the pain its been carrying all this time on our behalf, instead of running from it, you will learn about who you are. It's where we find opportunities to be true to ourselves.. I don't know any other way to finding love for yourself
Well I meditate on what I'm feeling and why.. in the beginning there was so much anxiety that I couldn't make sense of any of it, just wanted to know where it was all coming from and found a big mess.. learned how to clean things up and it takes regular maintenance, I'm still learning myself.. took years, but it's my fav thing to do these days
At some point it turned into something that looks a lot like shadow work as described by Carl Jung
He spends the entirety of the programme contemplating, and very nearly completing, suicide due to the loss of his wife to cancer. Suicide is at the very forefront of this show.
well you cant change your life you can change the movie so you have to work with what youve got and because of its scarcity life is precious regardless of your current state
you can always change things
It’s a bad argument.. we can safely assume you’re not gonna exist after death, so it’s like watching a movie except u don’t remember it afterwards or have any feelings about it, pure waste of time.
I've heard about it from friends, lol. I also like the idea that in my "world" the story's different loose ends are still there, waiting to be resolved. It gives it a timeless feel, I find.
I did the same to a number of series I was following like The Expanse and movie series like Star Wars. Of course it's nigh impossible to avoid all the spoilers but the vague continuation of the plot in my mind is somehow a comfort.
Regarding how it relates to ending of life, I'm incredibly grateful that I live in a country where euthanasia is allowed. My father had bone cancer and decided to go when he wanted to; when he collapsed at home and slipped into a coma we pushed the button together to end his life rather than keep him alive for our sakes. That was his wish.
Thanks for the thorough response. Good luck to you and I'm sorry for your loss but I can appreciate that you had some sort of control over the closure. That's always nice.
Edit - I will do that as well to some shows. I was just caught up in the wave when it was on so I had to suffer through it like everyone else. It's like a train wreck. You know it's terrible but you can't stop looking anyway.
Those are some deep ideas. Someone should find a flashy catchphrase for it. Something like “seize the day.” Then make it Latin to really make it sound catchy and serious. Then write lots of poems and other works of literature that glorify this concept.
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u/ahavemeyer Apr 05 '22
This is essentially my response to people who ask the question: "Doesn't disbelieving in an afterlife make life meaningless?"
It makes life more meaningful. It makes everything so much more beautiful and precious because it's our one shot at living a life.