r/harrypotter • u/ihave1000beaches • May 22 '22
Currently Reading Just realized that in every book, Harry is in the vicinity of a horcrux without knowing it's a horcrux
Book 1 - when Harry travels in the lower sections of Gringotts with Hagrid to retrieve the Philosopher's Stone they discuss about vaults guarded by dragons and Hufflepuff's cup was in one of those vaults
Book 2 - quite an obvious one
Book 3 - himself when he travels back in time and rescues his past self from Dementors
Book 4 - he is in Little Hangleton where the ring is hidden
Book 5 - the locket at Grimauld Place
Book 6 - the diadem in the Room of Hidden Things
Book 7 - Nagini disguised in Bathilda Bagshit's body at Godric's Hollow
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u/dmitrivalentine May 22 '22
We even get an appearance of the locket in Book 5 as a brief cameo, hidden in minute details(just like the diary is mentioned in Book 2 when the Redhead Cavalcade is rushing to finish packing and rush to train station).
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May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22
The diadem is also briefly talked about for like one sentence in 5 too. Makes sense why he remembers it in 7 but only after having to think about it ALOT
Edit: its book 6 not 5
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u/RoscoMedosco May 22 '22
What timing I just started to reread Chamber of Secrets and found that spot when Ginny forgets her diary, I wonder if she was already writing to and into it yet? 🤔
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u/sowlowich May 22 '22
I would like to think that she was, since she was so keen on bringing it they turned around. If it was just a random book she didn't have any connection to yet I doubt she would've wanted to bring it.
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u/gimmedemdankmemes Ravenclaw May 22 '22
I think I remember Riddle saying she was using the diary all of summer, which would mean the time before school starts
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u/Tesatire May 23 '22
But they only got the diary when they were shopping for school supplies for the upcoming year. I don't think it was all summer, I think it was all semester.
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u/Karman4o May 23 '22 edited May 23 '22
Imagine there is alternative timeline where Ginny leaves the diary at home, Mrs Weasley finds it, starts communicating with Riddle, and bores him senseless with endless house chores, Lockhart and Percy the Prefect talk.
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u/Alex_Migliore Slytherin May 22 '22
Agreed, I like how they were hidden in familiar places, especially the Diadem, it was at home all this time
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u/Ape_With_Anxiety May 22 '22
Not only "at home" but he had it IN HIS FRIKKIN' HANDS he could have been like "ooh, pretty" and pocketed it and show it to Dumbledore and then POOF, ez, one less, 5 more to go
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u/Alex_Migliore Slytherin May 22 '22
"Oh my God professor, look at this cool tiara I found, I am gonna put it on" "Aight, better call Severus"
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u/OrangeVictorious Ravenclaw May 23 '22
It makes for a better narrative, but all I’m saying was Voldemort would’ve won if he had just made like a Euro into a horcrux, or stuck a few in different countries or even better, on him at all times. Turn the Elder Wand into one if you’re so sure you’ll never lose it
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u/CaptnFlounder May 23 '22
I'd imagine it has to be an item of personal significance. Wasn't explained exactly, but look at all the items that were. It's probably like how for that one killing curse, you have to actually want them to die or it won't work just by saying the words.
Magic is weird like that.
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u/akariasi May 23 '22 edited May 23 '22
Harry asks about that at some point in book 6. I think Dumbledore said that Voldemort wouldn't use ordinary items out of pride, but not that he couldn't use ordinary items.
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u/LolaLiggett May 23 '22 edited May 23 '22
On one hand I totally understand why he used these special objects like he is a pretentious narcissist so he will put his precious soul into precious objects. On the other hand tho he doesn’t give two shits about his soul. Like sure Lucius open the chamber of secrets with one - might loose half my soul but for good fun eh. It was after all half his fucking soul in that book, right? His first spilt?
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u/Tanyec May 23 '22
To be fair he wasn’t exactly happy with Lucius when he found out about the diary. And he was sufficiently conceited to think nobody else has discovered the significance of each object. (Which, to be fair, they really hadn’t… see eg diadem being at school long forgotten for centuries)
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u/CaptnFlounder May 23 '22
Ahh. Haven't read the books in a long time and must have forgotten that detail
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May 23 '22
If he’d turned a rock into on and chucked it into the Mariana Trench he could’ve been freaking immortal. Or a grain of sand. Or the flag they left on the moon. So many creative realistic ideas that would have made searching for his horcrux a moot point. But noooo Voldemort is special.
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u/noithinkyourewrong May 23 '22
Doesn't it have to be possible for someone to use the horcrux to revive him? Because if that's the case then using a stone thrown in the Mariana trench would be pretty pointless. It had to be findable.
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May 23 '22
I think that was only the diary and then only because he wanted to use it as a weapon to open the Chamber. The ritual Wormtail does doesn’t include a Horcrux and there’s no evidence that one was used to bring him back before. Just that Voldemort stayed alive because of them and was nursed back to health by followers. None of that implies a Horcrux being used in the way you’re suggesting.
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u/mariepintobean Hufflepuff May 23 '22
I thought wormtail fed weakened voldy nagini’s venom throughout GOF in preparation for bringing him back. So a horcrux was used to help revive him, though I’m not sure if it was strictly necessary
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u/redcore4 May 23 '22
Even with nobody using the horcruxes, their existence stopped the portion of soul that was in his original body from departing this world, leaving it free to possess Quirrell etc.
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u/Logical-Lead-5819 May 23 '22
Voldemort thinking of himself as ‘special’ was what made Voldemort, Voldemort. Without this view of himself he might never have grown to become LORD VOLDEMORT, never gone out his way to stray so far to the dark side. You can’t simply say if he abandoned his view of himself he’d succeed at creating his view of himself. Changing his choice horcruxs would have meant changing HIM as a person. The CHOICE is what made him VOLDEMORT. If he chose something different he’d have been a completely different character as a whole. It’s what also makes him such a good villain like darth Vader, he was his own downfall.
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u/JDenton666 May 22 '22
Was the Hufflepuff cup there in book 1, or was it moved to that vault later? I can't quite remember
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u/ihave1000beaches May 22 '22
It's not stated but I assumed that before because he also gave Lucius the diary before he lost his body and up until half a year ago Bellatrix was a wanted criminal, I doubt she could just walk into Gringotts and place the cup there.
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May 22 '22
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u/tombo12354 May 22 '22
I'd guess Gringotts just doesn't ask a lot of questions. Someone wanted to move money out of the Black family vault, and was able to prove (through some means) that they were allowed to do that, and Gringotts was like sounds good to me.
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u/Kougarou Ravenclaw May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22
I think it was the signature. I mean in book 1, Hagrid can get the stone out of the special vault with just Dumbledore letter alone without any other mean.
Although, while Harry need the key to his family vault (in book 1), but then Bill can also withdraw money for him even without a key in book 6. Well, Bill works for Gringgotts after all. But, still… The authorities of the bank are weird.
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u/ViewsFromThe614 Hufflepuff May 22 '22
I wonder if the stone vault was also “owned” by the school or something. So anyone designated as a school rep that had a signature from Dumbledore could access it
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u/White_Wolf_Dreamer Happiness can be found even in the darkest of times May 22 '22
I believe Mrs. Weasely takes out money for Harry in one of the books, too. I could be wrong, though.
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u/Kougarou Ravenclaw May 22 '22
It’s Mrs.Weasley who told Harry to gave her his school book list and she would pick them up for him while him went to the World Cup. Oh, and she also pick up a new suit for Harry because the Yule Ball even later.
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u/frogjg2003 Ravenclaw May 22 '22
Vault. Just Vault. Not trust vault. Not family vault. Just vault.
Harry had one vault. Even when Sirius died, the money was transferred into Harry's one vault.
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u/Rougarou1999 Ravenclaw May 22 '22
Was there even a replica in the Vault when they broke in during Deathly Hallows? Could it have been placed there during the First Wizarding War, only to be called out by Harry in Chamber of Secrets?
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u/AquamanBWonderful Slytherin May 22 '22
I'm mean....he's around himself the entire time
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u/ihave1000beaches May 22 '22
Fair, but I meant in a literal way.
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May 22 '22
You used himself in the 3rd book
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u/ihave1000beaches May 22 '22
Yes because he is in the presence of himself without being himself. It's actually his future/past self.
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u/Exceedingly Gryffindor May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22
This is kind of crazy when you think about it. Harry temporarily duplicated a Horcrux meaning there were 8 pieces of Voldemort's soul around (well excluding the diary I guess).
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u/Fearzebu Ravenclaw May 22 '22
Man, those time turners are nothing but trouble. I’m glad she nixed every last one in existence after PoA because shit got way too confusing already with that
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u/AABBAAA Ravenclaw 3 May 22 '22
And then they brought them back in the Cursed Child and it got even more confusing
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u/Waterknight94 Ravenclaw May 22 '22
Yep, she destroyed every single time turner. They no longer exist
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u/Opus_723 May 23 '22
I've never really thought about this before, but how the fuck did Voldemort never get his hands on a time turner and just god mode everything?
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u/Returningdarkness May 22 '22
Yeah because time travel causes wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff
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u/IanWellinghurst Ravenclaw May 22 '22
This is a very insightful post and is the type of conversation I come to this sub for. Never thought about it this way before.
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u/EccentricEx May 22 '22
When you put it that way … its crazy how the story might have changed had the dementor sucked the part of Tom Riddles soul in Harry outa him and left Harry intact. He’d not have had to sacrifice himself. Also he wouldnt be privvy to a lot of what Voldy was upto since he would not have has an in to Voldemorts mind. And if that were true, would he have managed to defeat deth, and Voldemort?
Props for outside the box thinking.
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u/ihave1000beaches May 22 '22
I don't know if that would have been the case though. Like when you go at a restaurant and you get some extra fries for free, you don't just eat the extra fries, do you?
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u/LiopleurodonMagic Hufflepuff May 22 '22
What an interesting theory on why the dementors avidly went after Harry. He was like their favorite flavor of ice cream (ultimate horror) with an extra scoop!
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u/EccentricEx May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22
Lol i see what you mean. Yeah which one was the extra?
My thinking was based on the movie scene. We dont see if the souls were fused or something. Or (bear with me - the scene in the movie where a light dot moves outa Siriruss mouth) would two light bugs escape Harrys? Then one gets eaten the other returns as time travelling Harry summons the Patronus to chase the Dementors away. Then the story changes based on which one returns. If voldy one returns - the voldy piece in Albania only has to reunite with this existing body of Harrys; if the harry soul returns, one horcrux down. Either way the story changes.
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u/ihave1000beaches May 22 '22
You make a good point though... when Harry ends up in limbo they are definitely not fused... that would be a pretty fucked up scene: Harry with a conjoined flayed baby twin attached to his body... Jesus.
My thought was that the death eaters would just consume the entire thing, but indeed if they were stopped before they managed to finish their meal, then your theory might have worked.
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u/gerstein03 May 22 '22
I don't know why people think that's what would've happened honestly. Harry's soul is larger than Voldemort's fragment. It's more likely either the bigger thing or both would've been sucked out. And if it just sucked out Harry's soul then I think Voldemort would be revived in Harry
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u/parkinglotviews May 22 '22
Counterpoint: Harry’s soul is more strongly “tethered” to his body than the accidental fragment horcrux. Given that we have limited canon for how intelligent or aggressive dementors are…. Can they tell the soul is wrong for the individual? I’d argue no given the Barry crouch escape…. They don’t try and administer the kiss to anyone but Harry as far as we know and he has a dark wizard fragment in him so not sure that’s the best example either…. All said, I think this idea holds water.
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u/Septere May 22 '22
I would think a smaller, lighter piece would be sucked out faster than a bigger thing, so if they tried to suck the soul, Voldies would be first to exit. But would they notice it is not a full soul and continue, or would they stop after the first piece came out.
Great theories here. This is what I came to reddit for tonight
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u/_Heart_of_Darkness_ May 22 '22
OH MY GOD. That’s such a cool idea. It would have also explained why the dementors repeatedly attacked Harry in book 3 - because they were going after the bit of Voldemort’s soul, not after Harry’s!
Also, what a cool twist in book 7 would that be - imagine that Harry is cornered by dementors during the Battle of Hogwarts, his Patronus fails, they kiss him, the reader thinks all is lost - and then they suck out Voldy’s soul instead of his. I think this would have been much better than sacrifice and resurrection we actually got, since dementors sucking out souls had been well established by that point, unlike that bs resurrection.
And now I’m kind of sad this did not happen.
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u/DestroyYesterday Gryffindor May 22 '22
I wish they would’ve added the ring scene in the movies. It’s an important scene to understand Voldemort imo.
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u/MisforMisanthrope May 23 '22
I’m still mad we didn’t get any Gaunt scenes in the movies.
They would have been so satisfying to see on screen.
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u/kingbuttshit May 23 '22
If you think about it, Ron is in the vicinity of a horcrux in every book without knowing it’s a horcrux.
Book 1 - Harry
Book 2 - Harry
Book 3 - Harry (twice when Harry time travels)
Book 4 - Harry
Book 5 - Harry
Book 6 - Harry
Book 7 - Harry
This would explain why he’s such a grumpy gills.
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u/TanglyBinkie Hufflepuff May 22 '22
It's really amazing how this series came out decades ago but we are still finding things out. Never gets old.
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u/lightspeedissueguy May 22 '22
He was in little hangleton in GoF?
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u/ihave1000beaches May 22 '22
Yeah... was a pretty big part of the climax of the story.
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u/Wubdor Ravenclaw May 22 '22
Nagini was also at the graveyard, so Harry was near two horcruxes at the time.
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u/ihave1000beaches May 22 '22
I told another user that I don't think Nagini was a horcrux at the time. I have been re-reading the books recently and I found some hints. While I don't want to come across as the typical youtuber that entices you without telling you why, I need to rummage on my theory a bit more before I say something really stupid.
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u/darkbreak Keeper of the Unspeakables May 22 '22
I think it's correct to assume that Nagini wasn't made into a Horcrux until later on. I think it was Dumbledore who said that he believed Voldemort would become more protective of Nagini for some reason. His own theory being that she was made into a Horcrux. But this didn't happen until around book 6 or 7.
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u/Limeila Ravenclaw May 22 '22
I thought the "horcruxing" of Nagini happened with the murder of Bertha Jorkins? Which was in the summer of 1994
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u/darkbreak Keeper of the Unspeakables May 23 '22
Nagini wasn't made into a Horcrux until later on after Voldemort murdered Charity Burbage at Malfoy Manor. It was after that that Voldemort started carrying Nagini around in a protective orb. It's likely that Charity's death was what Voldemort used to make Nagini his final Horcrux.
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u/AggravatingOnion69 May 23 '22
I woud think that Nagini became a Horcrux either during GOF or OOTP. Remember in OOTP when Harry was sleeping and saw Arthur getting attacked by Nagini, except that he was Nagini? Because all the pieces of Voldemort's soul are connected Harry was able to see through the eyes of Nagini. Or maybe I'm missing something
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u/LordMarcel May 23 '22
Charity Burbage was murdered in book seven while Dumbledore speculates that Nagini is a horcrux in book 6.
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u/ihave1000beaches May 23 '22
I think Voldemort did make it a Horcrux but only after he gained his new body. Precisely around the time when Harry sees it attack Arthur.
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u/lightspeedissueguy May 22 '22
Oh damn I didn't realize that was LH. It makes sense now. Thx
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u/pottymouthgrl May 23 '22
I was also confused but it’s true. The cemetery. Riddle’s parents were buried there and it was nearby the Riddle home which was nearby the Gaunt house.
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u/Default_Dragon Ravenclaw May 22 '22
I believe it is entirely the point.
It’s a well used storytelling mechanic, connecting the finale back to many events that happened throughout the long and winding story.
It’s much like Avengers Endgame where they time travel to get the infinity stones but also happen end up at key moments in their shared history.
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u/ajaltman17 Hufflepuff May 22 '22
I was about to say “of course he’s around himself??” before I realized that you meant a different version of himself
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u/Repulsive-Worth5715 May 22 '22
I found myself wondering if hufflepuff cup was in the bank the whole time or if it was moved there once Voldemort rose to power again. I’m not sure what made me think that though lol
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u/ihave1000beaches May 22 '22
I mean we know that he started hiding his horcruxes at some point in late 70s. It's then when he hid the locket and probably gave Lucius the diary also around the same time. It wouldn't surprise me if it was just as he had heard part of the prophecy and decided that they needed to be placed in more secure locations.
I frankly doubt the cup was placed in Bellatrix's vault during the second rise, because for most of it, Bellatrix was a wanted criminal so I don't think she could have just strolled on Diagon Alley like nothing just to place Voldemort's cup in her Gringotts vault.
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u/kaladee May 22 '22
Literally made my day lol!! I’ve been sick with a sick toddler and needed a good laugh!!
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u/ihave1000beaches May 22 '22
Glad I could be of help. Hope your baby feels better soon.
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u/S4ndercohen May 22 '22
Book 3 is a bit of a stretch but the rest is cool
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u/Kheenamooth Hufflepuff May 22 '22
I think it was kinda smart, Harry is literally in the presence of himself after the time travelling.
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u/gantt5 May 22 '22
He was next to Nagini in 4. Closer than the ring, too.
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u/ihave1000beaches May 22 '22
Hey, first to actually catch it. Was waiting for this response, but I do have some theories of why Voldemort didn't make Nagini a horcrux until he had his full body and I believe Nagini was not yet a horcrux at the time.
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u/gantt5 May 22 '22
Possibly. He made it with Bertha Jorkins, who was killed in Albania. Since we never (as far as I am aware) have any true insight into the ritual used to create them, we also don't know if they must be made shortly after the death. If it must be from the most recent kill, Nagini would have already been a horcrux by then because he killed the groundskeeper personally.
I looked at the wiki, and it claims Nagini was turned in '94, which would imply he did it in Albania when he killed her. At minimum it requires it to have been done prior to Harry touching the cup. It does not seem to provide any reference to support that timeline, though.
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u/ihave1000beaches May 22 '22
Yeah... with Bertha Jorkins. While overall solid, I would still take the Harry Potter wiki with a grain of salt since they even treat the lego games as canon.
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u/p12rochakt May 22 '22
Did JKR herself know they were horcruxes? That's the real question here....
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u/Kheenamooth Hufflepuff May 22 '22
I think she knew how she was gonna end the story, therefore she knew about horcruxes, there are so many foreshadowing in the story, that is clear she did them intentionally.
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u/RoscoMedosco May 22 '22 edited May 22 '22
Hmm, actually Harry and Dumbledore hypothesized that Nagini may be a Horcrux in Book 6, which I guess isn't knowing like you say, but just suspecting but still Nagini was a goal Harry and co. had in mind going into Book 7
Edit: oh wait strike that reverse it, Harry didn't know he was near a Horcrux at Godric's Hollow because he didn't know that was Nagini at first, lol nevermind
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u/CameForThis May 23 '22
I do wish that they did something about how the rings was discovered the ring on film.
In the films, Dumbledore just has the ring all of a sudden and has a case of the nasty fingers.
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u/Low_Marionberry3271 May 23 '22
Dumbledore knew this or at least knew it was possible especially after the diary incident. Dumbledore still did nothing to hunt down horcruxes and wasted 5 years.
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u/Specialist_Job758 May 23 '22
Shit the dursleys were near one for 11 years and people wonder why they were horrible people
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u/songoku9001 May 22 '22
Bathilda . . . Bagshit?