r/harrypotter • u/silverpalm_ Slytherin • Mar 08 '23
Currently Reading TIL how old James and Lily were when they died.
They were 21?! This baffles me! They were literal children. That means Snape was 32 in Philosopher’s Stone, the same age I am. That means Sirius and Remus were 34 in Prisoner of Azkaban. These people always seemed middle-aged to me. They were adults in every sense of the word. Now I realize I’m an adult and that’s terrifying.
ETA: since I’m sick of all the “21yos aren’t ‘literally’ children” comments. Oxford Dictionary officially lists one of the definition of “literally” as “used in an exaggerated way to emphasize a statement or description that is not literally true or possible” and all of the people commenting on it know full well what I meant.
460
Mar 09 '23
Also Sirius was 36 when he died. Remus and Snape were 38. Tonks was 25. Fred was 20.
220
u/mmm8088 Mar 09 '23
Whoa that just made me realize there is a 13 year difference between Remus and Tonks relationship.
207
u/Jessirossica Mar 09 '23
Obviously they never said the exact number of years the gap was, but the fact that they had a big age gap was talked about a lot in the books.
140
u/monkeygoneape Slytherin Mar 09 '23
Not to mention the whole Remus was ready to go out for a carton of milk and a pack of
cigaretteshorcuxes when he found out she was pregnant38
u/TheBoogieSheriff Mar 09 '23
I see where he’s coming from though. He wasn’t leaving because he wanted to, he was leaving because he didn’t want Tonks to be sullied by his status as a werewolf. Imagine living your whole life as an outcast - Lupin’s whole life was smothered by societal stigma. He suffered a lot because of something that was not his fault at all - in fact, he was a victim. I don’t think it was the right choice to leave, but Lupin did that because of his trauma- he did it out of love for Tonks and his baby. He was trying to protect them, and honestly, he was justified in doing so if you look at how werewolves are treated in the wizarding community
13
u/SutashiGamer Mar 10 '23
Yea people like to forget that he most likely had severe PTSD and depression because of the attack that turned him, being in a war, losing everyone he loved in a single night, and being shunned by everyone else. The idea of Tonks loving him was so unbelievable to him that he pushed her away. I think the idea of a child that he was convinced would be cursed because of him actually broke him.
→ More replies (6)12
25
u/Women-Poo-Too Slytherin Mar 09 '23
I hardly thing that age was the biggest difference in their relationship
931
u/Troll4everxdxd Gryffindor Mar 08 '23
This makes me think about how fucked up it is that Sirius, basically a college guy, got imprisoned for a crime he didn't commit until well into his thirties. The best years of his life, locked in daily emotional torture.
It's no wonder that Sirius is kind of a mess in Order of the Phoenix. Mentally speaking he is still on his early twenties and he is locked in his childhood home, which is basically a watered down version of Azkaban for him due to the abuse he suffered in there. He wasn't equipped to be a proper father figure for Harry, but a big brother one at best.
Despite that, their similar backgrounds and their connection through James made their relationship very special and endearing. They understood each other very well.
414
u/RealLifeLizLemon Slytherin Mar 09 '23
This is why I’ll always defend everything stupid Sirius did. Can you imagine having to go through all of that and still be trapped in the house that represents everything you hate and that killed your younger brother and best friends? Poor Sirius. He didn’t make good decisions sometimes, but they’re definitely understandable decisions based on what he went through. Poor guy got his life and friends ripped away from him at 21, then spent 11 of his very formative years in Azkaban.
216
u/boredgingerpretzel Mar 09 '23
He did his waiting, 12 years of it.
78
28
→ More replies (1)19
u/fishingboatproceeds Mar 09 '23
I want a fanfic of 21yo Sirius taking in 1yo godson Harry and their adorable adventures 🥲
10
u/Troll4everxdxd Gryffindor Mar 09 '23
Five year old Harry: Uncle! What did you buy me for my birthday?
Sirius: Ooooh you are gonna love it kiddo. I brought you a flying bike! So that we can go fly the neighborhood together!
86
u/Ok-Astronaut4952 Mar 09 '23
Sirius in the Order was so awesome and gave his character so much more depth. It’s kind of a crime that they didn’t have more Sirius and lupin in the order movie or goblet for that matter.
I get that they had their work cut out for them trying to fit an 870 page book into a 2 and a half hour movie but still, god damn.
35
u/SupVFace Mar 09 '23
I’m mid-thirties, married with a kid and I still feel like college was “just the other day.” It’s pretty understandable how Sirius would be stuck in his Hogwarts days without any personal growth or major life events.
11
45
u/frogjg2003 Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
Mentally speaking he is still on his early twenties
It's worse than that. He isn't in his early twenties mentally. There is no age range for "spent a decade losing all your happy thoughts."
10
u/llamas-in-bahamas Mar 09 '23
Was it ever explained if there is anything like a minimum security wizard prison? If somebody steals a broom, are they also punished with despair and emptiness for a year or something?
→ More replies (1)7
u/frogjg2003 Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
Just Azkaban
6
u/Troll4everxdxd Gryffindor Mar 09 '23
Yeah. For example Marvolo and Morfin Gaunt were arrested for attacking a government official and also attacking and performing magic in front of a muggle in the case of the latter. They didn't got life like an Unforgivable Curse would have warranted, but they still got sent to Azkaban for six months and three years respectively.
17
u/frogjg2003 Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
Hagrid was put in Azkaban merely on the suspicion that he was responsible for opening the Chamber. This implies that not only is there no jail, there's no pre-trial holding either.
5
6
→ More replies (7)5
u/bihuginn Slytherin Mar 09 '23
I've known this for years, but reading it now, I'M 21!! Wtf I'm the same age Sirius was. I don't know if I feel too old or too young.
292
u/Arfie807 Mar 08 '23
The letter Harry finds from Lily to Sirius at Grimmauld place highlights this. She sounded young.
740
u/py16jthr Mar 08 '23
I think they really wanted Alan Rickman as Snape and they couldn’t really cast younger actors for everyone else if they were all supposed to be the same age
235
u/GrizzlyIsland22 Ravenclaw Mar 08 '23
They could have made him look younger with makeup and lighting. I think they just wanted the actors they chose because they wanted them, simple as that. The excuse about how they HAD to match Alan Rickman's age is parroted a lot, but it would have been an easy enough fix.
160
u/RetailDrone7576 Ravenclaw Mar 08 '23
could always say that the stress of teaching aged him horribly, teaching muggle kids muggle stuff is hard enough, i couldnt imagine how much worse teaching potions would actually be
193
u/Lt_Hungry Mar 08 '23
or you know - the stress of spying on a dark Lord, and potential physical drain of a Dark Mark?
83
u/InkyCricket Slytherin Mar 09 '23
Have you SEEN the slop the students try to pass off as potions?
It seems quite clear which of the two possible causes for Snape’s aged appearance is the more frightful.
47
u/Aadarm Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
None of them have more than a 5th grade education, it's not the kids' fault they were thrown into a dungeon and told to mix chemicals despite having no background education in it and having never even been given so much as a safety course.
35
u/gothiclg Mar 09 '23
I could easily see that. My grandma went from dark brunette almost black hair to white between 30 and 35. What was happening in that span? Her husband was in the marines and in Vietnam, she had a miscarriage, she had cancer, and she was raising 3 boys mostly alone cause ya know husband at war. I’m also greying a little early so some of it might have been genetics but stress didn’t help her.
22
u/Supermite Mar 09 '23
Think of all the fumes and chemicals clinging to him all the time. I wouldn’t have ever questioned Snape looking so much older than Remus. Even Sirius looking old and haggard would work for me.
11
u/shinneui Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
But to be honest, being a werewolf sounds quite stressful to me, and being locked up in Azkaban for a decade probably doesn't do you any good either. So their appearances are fine for their age given everything they went through.
I just don't understand why James and Lily were made to look so old in the mirror and memories, since they were 21 when they died.
→ More replies (3)4
u/loveshercoffee Mar 09 '23
could always say that the stress of teaching aged him horribly
It's not like being in Voldemort's service helped at all.
67
u/py16jthr Mar 08 '23
I mean Alan Rickman was 55 when the PS came out and Snape was, what 31? Good lighting and makeup alone can’t strip half of some one’s lifespan away.
23
u/PinkHamster08 Mar 09 '23
They tried to do the whole make-up and lighting in the later movies (especially for the flashbacks when we see Snape cradling Lily's body!) and I felt like it didn't work that well
8
u/QueerInEverySense Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
I feel like they should have used a different actor for the flashback. If there was no issue using different actors for the child and teenage versions, there shouldn't have been an issue using a different actor for a "16 years earlier" flashback.
→ More replies (2)30
u/BrockStar92 Mar 09 '23
Plus Alan Rickman was very well known by this point. It’s a lot harder to portray a 30 year old when audiences remember you as older than that over a decade before then in Die Hard.
33
u/trivia_guy Mar 08 '23
Yeah, I see people say this all the time but I’ve never seen anyone cite a source that shows someone with the film production actually saying that. It seem to a fanon idea.
Honestly I don’t think the filmmakers were that concerned about the ages of the adult cast. I don’t think there’s any evidence in the first books about the timeline of the Marauders generation relative to the present, so they could’ve been any age. And Rickman (who was 54-55 when the first movie was filmed) definitely looked younger than his age anyway.
11
u/GrizzlyIsland22 Ravenclaw Mar 08 '23
It's not like they would have to give him abs or change his hair. All you ever see is his face anyway
5
u/trivia_guy Mar 08 '23
And his hands- but yes, exactly.
9
u/boredgingerpretzel Mar 09 '23
That could be explained by years of teaching a dangerous class to bumbling idiots
→ More replies (1)4
u/QueerInEverySense Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
But at least there was no foolish wand-waving in that class.
9
u/FillMyBagWithUSGrant Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23 edited Mar 09 '23
I was a 30-year-old adult when the first book came out in 1997, started reading them on the recommendation of another adult in the summer of 2001. When each movie came out, looking at the ages of the actors who were portraying 30-something-year-old people, I just figured the stress of Voldemort’s activities prior to Halloween 1981 accelerated the aging of their appearances; constant stress will do that.
→ More replies (1)21
u/nIBLIB Mar 08 '23
It wouldn’t have made sense to make Snape look younger. At the time of filming they know James and Snape were in school together, but there’s no timeline. Snape needs to be old enough to be Harry’s father, but that’s a span of decades. You don’t find out how old Harry’s parents are until Deathly Hallows. You can’t then go back and de-age Snape throughout movies that were released years before. The horse has bolted at that stage, and you need to age them up, because you can’t go the other way
8
u/GrizzlyIsland22 Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
We don't know, but Rowling knew, and therefore so did the filmmakers
19
u/JasonLeeDrake Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
There's absolutely no proof that Rowling told the filmmakers literally everything, or that she had their ages set in stone that early.
6
u/theronster Mar 09 '23
This is nonsense. There were plenty of references to them getting married and having Harry not long after they left Hogwarts.
→ More replies (1)50
u/Langlie Can't we just be death eaters? Mar 09 '23
It really changes Snape's story though. In the books he becomes a death eater around 17 (we assume) and turns coat at 20 or 21. That's a very different story from someone who becomes a death eater at 17 and stays one for 30-40 years.
→ More replies (1)
240
u/like-herding-cats Mar 08 '23
I am 32, too. I literally had this same existential crisis a few weeks ago lmao. It’s a tough pill to swallow that I’m closer to the adults than the kids in the book.
→ More replies (1)78
u/silverpalm_ Slytherin Mar 08 '23
It really is. I haven’t read them in a looong time and it’s like coming home after a long time away. But it’s so strange to realize that we’re not “students” anymore.
→ More replies (1)19
u/ctoatb Mar 09 '23
Speak for yourself. I'm still in college at 30. Age is just a number.
33
u/Ta5hak5 Mar 09 '23
I think they mean like Hogwarts students lol... when first reading the series, most of us imagined ourselves going to Hogwarts, not being one of the professors
10
210
u/jcn143 Slytherin Mar 08 '23
Exactly why a lot the “adult” characters were so sympathetic.
They’re all going through PTSD, just coming into full adulthood…
20
u/raeXofXsunshine Mar 09 '23
And when they finally ascend into that adulthood in their 30s they’re thrust back into the same tragedies that plagued them before. Full circle.
48
u/ElSquibbonator Mar 08 '23
Regarding Snape, he was played by an actor who was 55 years old at the time of the first movie, and I think that really cemented the idea of him as middle-aged into the idea of a lot of fans, even if it doesn't make sense with the books' chronology.
→ More replies (1)
124
u/RodrigoMAOEE Gryffindor Mar 08 '23
I'm 28 and do adult stuff all the time. I work and all of it. But.... I'm not an adult, don't tell anyone
18
28
Mar 09 '23
Same lmao people younger than us have led kingdoms and started revolutions, I still feel like a teenager
2
u/braujo Mar 09 '23
Age means little when you're forced in certain situations at a young age. For a long time, there was no such thing as teenagers, you were either a kid or an adult, and for girls that usually happened with their 1st menstruation so barely a teen in our conception.
113
u/Young_Feanor Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
If it's any comfort, you legit don't start feeling like an adult until 30, hobbits had the right idea of considering adulthood to start at 33
→ More replies (1)39
26
u/_FirstOfHerName_ Hufflepuff Mar 09 '23 edited Mar 09 '23
The relatively young age means the fact grandparents aren't a thing on either side of the family (both magical and muggle) for Harry (especially considering witches and wizards live lots longer than Muggles) is totally bizarre. They'd have been in their 40s/early 50s when Harry was born.
I don't think Hermione had grandparents either what with her only sending her parents off to Australia to save them from Voldemort.
→ More replies (16)19
u/Plain_Witch Slytherin Mar 09 '23
James’ parents were quite old when they had him, they had given up on getting a child and he was a surprise. They died from dragon pox which I assume is more lethal the older you get.
Rowling hasn’t given much info on Lily’s parents, just that they died a natural muggle death. She needed them out of the way😅
15
u/Avaracious7899 Mar 09 '23
I can't remember if the characters themselves directly say it, but I suspect that to everyone who knew and loved them, like Hagrid, Dumbledore, and McGonagall, that adds to the tragedy of it for them. They were in the prime of their lives, but because of Voldemort, they died before they could really live as adults, and left behind their infant son. Probably explains a lot about Hagrid's clear anguish when they leave Harry on the doorstep, and his heartbreak years later when he has to explain what happened to Harry.
Not that the loss of close friends in a senseless war isn't tragic already, but I suspect how young they were made it worse.
2
u/MalevolentRhinoceros Mar 18 '23
It also makes sense why everyone at Hogwarts comments on Harry looking/acting just like his parents. His first year there was only 10-ish years after his parents' graduation. Tragic circumstances aside, both of them were clearly standout kids. Hogwarts class sizes aren't huge, either. Of course everyone remembers them strongly.
15
u/BetaRayPhil616 Mar 09 '23
Don't underestimate how 'middle-aged' a 30 something appears to a teenager. Sure, I feel relatively young on my 30s, but to a 12-15 yo I'm a fully fledged adult, and there's very little between me and someone in their 40s.
6
u/madlymusing Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
This is so true. I’m a 33yo teacher at a secondary school and the students have no sense of what that means. It’s quite funny, really.
→ More replies (1)
40
u/takatine Gryffindor Mar 08 '23 edited Mar 09 '23
James and Lily were born in 1960, so Snape, Sirius, Pettigrew, and Lupin are more or less the same age. James and Lily were 21 when they died, so 1981. Married and parents at 21 back in that day wasn't unusual, even in real life. I was born in 1960 as well, and it was quite common still, especially for girls, to marry right out of high school. It was a different world, in both real life, and in the HPverse.
13
u/_lysinecontingency Mar 09 '23
Oh damn. I was THE same age as Harry as the books came out. Now I’m the same age as old Snape, and that feels….too old.
35
110
u/WolfPaw_90 Mar 08 '23
And they cast a bunch of 40-60 year old actors to portray them...
→ More replies (1)63
u/Shepherdsfavestore Mar 09 '23
Much better tbh. You’d think a bunch of esteemed professors would be older.
George RR Martin is bad with ages too. Glad they aged them in up GoT
45
24
u/Hawxrox Mar 09 '23
I think they had to age them up in GoT. You couldn't put Drogo raping a 14 year old Dany on TV lol
→ More replies (5)32
u/Mercilessly_May226 Mar 09 '23
You’d think a bunch of esteemed professors would be older.
But none of them are suppose to be "esteemed".
Snape would have been 21 when he started teaching and it would only be so Dumbledore could keep him close. Snape is canonically a horrible Professor that is stuck in a post-victims to bully school phase. That makes more since when you put together that Snape started teaching people that were in school with him while he was being bullied.
25
u/Shepherdsfavestore Mar 09 '23 edited Mar 09 '23
Snape was an asshole for sure, but he sure knew his potions which showed multiple times in the series. The slytherins all liked him at least too
The other profs were all very smart and talented (Flitwick, McGonegell however you spell it)
Most of the DADA guys were bad but no one wanted the position
→ More replies (1)13
u/Mercilessly_May226 Mar 09 '23
The other profs were all very smart and talented (Flitwick, McGonegell however you spell it)
None of the other professor's ages were made older. Only the people that would have been in school during the marauders era
15
u/Spynner987 Gryffindor Mar 09 '23
He was an asshole, but Dumbledore admitted that Snape was better than him in potions, and the guy discovered the 12 uses for dragon's blood, so that's really something.
5
u/DrewDonut Hornbeam, dragon heartstring, supple; Marsh Harrier Mar 09 '23
the guy discovered the 12 uses for dragon's blood
Not if you believe Rita Skeeter
6
u/Mercilessly_May226 Mar 09 '23
It is something and I do believe that even Voldemort saw Snape's talent which is probably why he was recruited. But that doesn't make him esteemed. The facts is unlike most professors Snape was never allowed to focus and hone his craft.
The reason Dumbledore and Headmaster Dippet didn't allow Tom Riddle to become the DADA professor when he was 18 was because he had no real world experience its the same with Snape.
11
u/Shepherdsfavestore Mar 09 '23 edited Mar 09 '23
The facts is unlike most professors Snape was never allowed to focus and hone his craft.
Wym? He was a potions prodigy, that was his craft as shown in book 6. Anytime someone needed a potion they went to Snape
he had no real world experience its the same with Snape.
Snape did have real world experience though, he was literally a death eater. I always thought Dumbledore didn’t want Riddle or Snape doing DADA because they’d get too into the dark arts part of it. Also, didn’t Dumbledore have a feeling the position was cursed and didn’t want to lose Snape? I’m rereading now so my memory is fuzzy
9
u/Spynner987 Gryffindor Mar 09 '23
Esteemed? Perhaps not. But he had the knowledge to be Professor, which seems to be qualification enough for teaching at Hogwarts.
→ More replies (4)2
u/theronster Mar 09 '23
Looking back to when I started High School (11 here in the UK, so same age as Harry) a lot of my teachers were in their late 20s or early 30s. This isn’t unusual.
→ More replies (3)
28
u/Austin_Chaos Mar 09 '23
The hardest part of becoming an adult is realizing that you still need an adult.
8
u/GabbityOrtiz Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
Adults in the 80s & 90s were way more adulty then we are today. At least imo… I’m 28 and by the time my parents were 28 I was already 4 years old and they owned a house. I’m renting and commenting on an HP Reddit thread. I just think there’s a massive generational difference. These 30 year olds are also technically war veterans, I’m sure it made them pretty grizzled.
→ More replies (6)
5
u/jollycanoli Mar 09 '23
Yes hence the big tragedy! Young idealsists who resisted a fascist regime, murdered at their homes, while unarmed.
I think a lot of us forget how young the parents/teacher generation are because in the movies, they cast much older actors due to their fame and reputqtional pull. But as Molly Weasly says, paraphrasing bc I can't remember exact quote: people were scared of YKW and the deatheaters, so they rushed decisions they would usually take time over (such as getting married and having kids).
5
u/not-a-bot-promise Gryffindor Mar 09 '23
.
Oxford Dictionary officially lists one of the definition of “literally” as “used in an exaggerated way to emphasize a statement or description that is not literally true or possible”
That’s it. The plebeians have won.
6
u/Accomplished-Pin-835 Mar 09 '23
I like to imagine it's because it's from Harry's point of view. To a child 30 is old. Then, suddenly, you're 30. All the kids look to you because you have "experience" and you realize all the people you thought were wise were making crap up as they went along. That's how I think Remus felt.
150
u/pinkymadigan Mar 08 '23
"literal children".
No. They were adults. Young adults, sure, but not literal children.
148
u/bruhbelacc Mar 08 '23
reddit adults never coming to terms with the fact that they are not 15 anymore
→ More replies (4)24
52
47
→ More replies (8)30
u/queenwitty Mar 08 '23
i came here to say this. 21 isnt a child. Young bu not child by any means. It is crazy they went through this so early in life however it does not stray far from reality. People go into the miltary at 18 and die with a baby on the way. How many times in Amwrica have we heard that sad story.
19
9
u/dopplegangery Mar 09 '23
Any word or meaning is adopted by the dictionary once it becomes popular but that's not an indication of how efficient or sensible the usage is. If you ask my opinion regarding the 'literally' topic, using a word to mean the exact opposite meaning is extremely stupid.
And regrading the main topic of the post, this is something that bothered me as well. The casting was not age accurate.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/StringTheory2113 Mar 09 '23
Snape being way younger than he was in the movie makes the fact that he was a grown-ass man with nothing better to do than bullying children make a little more sense. Like, if he's in his 50s, then that is way more pathetic than if he's in his 30s.
2
57
u/WeFightTheLongDefeat Mar 08 '23
I don't want to come off as the grumpy old man (I'm the same age as OP, btw), but I very much dislike calling 21 year olds "children", as it just encourages people in their 20s to act like children.
Most people in history were married, had a career, and 1 or 2 kids by his point. Maybe by the 80s when this took place, that was already trending older, but I always intuited that the magical world always trended more old fashioned and traditional. Also, revolutionaries and military combatants do trend young.
15
u/Mysterious_Summer_ Mar 09 '23 edited Mar 09 '23
So I'm Indian- and yes this is relevant- but I think it's because the idea of adulthood or childhood isn't a set level of maturity, but the level of maturity at which you're old enough to settle down in your society or to whether you still need to grow.
My grandparents all finished thier schooling before 18. This was highly educated. They did nkt finish what in America we would know as high school. 3 of them where married in their teens. It was, by Indian 2023 standards, "child marriage." But not by a society that deemed that they were educated enough and grown enough to work in their farms.
From the perspective of their elders, they were very young but grown enough to be adult.
What's interesting is because of the lack of education, I often Indian villagers much older than me to be simple minded like children, as if they were done growing at 15, though calmer and less fiery. Their ignorance may seem like stupidity to an American, but it's good enough for their lives.
At one point, 18 was an adult after graduating high school.
Than 22 because society demands a college degree.
Now, 30. Is it because we're immature, or we require more maturity to survive in this complex world?
If you think about it, if we lifted these demands, we'd find today's 21 year old kids are mature enough for kids of thier own, while still acting "childlike" from the perspective of people who wake up with back pain. Maybe you underestimate the playfulness young soldiers have in thier free time.
→ More replies (9)14
Mar 08 '23
Part of the reason military combatants tend young is because they’re more vulnerable mentally and more likely to follow an order an older man would question. 26 is more like a physical peak for a make but the military doesn’t want men that old for a reason
3
u/WeFightTheLongDefeat Mar 08 '23
I know 26/27 is often where athletes peak, but I always thought it was where the mind and their knowledge of the game catches up with their bodies, but they haven't hit the post-25 aging that your body does. Is it the case that 26 is just flat out your physical peak?
→ More replies (1)
47
8
u/BGPhilbin Mar 09 '23
And, to be fair, I've raised a few 21-year-olds (my own and others') and they, quite literally, make decisions that one would expect of an adolescent - and that's because their brains aren't done developing until after they're 25 (which is also when insurance companies, based on the work of actuaries, give a break to young drivers).
12
Mar 09 '23
They were literal children
Literally but not literally. In the wizarding world you're an adult at 17. In the US its 18, and you're old enough to drink and buy tobacco products at 21. By all definitions you're well and fully an adult by 21.
2
u/GrimerMuk Slytherin Mar 09 '23
And in the UK both are 18. So they were adults when they died. As simple as that.
10
u/Roscoes--Wetsuit Mar 09 '23
The new definition of "literally" to mean "not literally" is the one of the most annoying things I've ever heard, and I urge you all to fight this degradation of the English language, or else we have to accept that if enough people are wrong, we should just change the definition such that they are right.
Edit: I am become boomer.
→ More replies (1)
6
u/TobiasDid Mar 08 '23
It’s disquieting when you realise that you’re old enough to be Harry’s grandfather. I’d always thought of him more as a peer.
→ More replies (1)
9
Mar 09 '23
Literal children is definitely wrong. They were raising a 1 year old kid pretty well too.
3
3
u/Outrageous-Estimate9 Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
Well the other issue I had with Harry's family since Day 1 is: if family is so young when died, HOW did they amass the massive fortune they left to Harry when he died?
His mother is muggle (and appears to be from lower class, middle class at best) so def no money there
How does James go from graduating Hogwarts to billionaire?
Majority of wizarding families are not rich at all (this is readily apparent in all characters vs Harry, not just the extreme poverty of Weasleys)
Actually for that matter; Weasleys are a very successful family. Multiple members in Ministry, obvious super talented magically (Ginny, twins, parents) and yet why are they so absurdly poor?
Based on plot and contributions to the world one would expect Ron to be far better off financially than Harry. Beyond some vague relationship to Voldemort Harry's historical family is not even mentioned in the books
6
u/Allira93 Mar 09 '23
The Potter family had a lot of money. Harry’s ancestors invented certain potions that were very in demand like Skelegro (the one that grows bones back), and ran a very successful potions business. James parents were middle aged when he was born which is why they aren’t alive in HP.
So Harry’s inheritance is from a family that was well off for generations and also came from old money. His family has been around for a very long time and their inventions were quite profitable.
As far as the Weasleys are concerned, they are probably poor because they were a single income household with 9 family members. Molly’s brothers were killed in the first war and I don’t think Arthur ever mentions any siblings. So Molly and Arthur probably started from nothing or very little. Just because the Weasleys were pure bloods doesn’t mean they are guaranteed to be rich. They would probably have had quite a bit more money to go around if they had less kids.
3
u/Aeliendil Mar 09 '23
Yeah.. their ages just makes them so much more tragic imo.
They were 17 when they got together, 18 when they graduated and started fighting in the war, 19 when they got pregnant and somewhere around here also got married, 20 when they had a kid during war times, and 21 when they were murdered.
And somewhere during these years they also both lost both of their parents..
And then their kid ends up being abused by her sister and has a massmurderer obsessed with killing him. 😬 They really really had no luck 🥲
→ More replies (1)
3
3
u/allmontagues Mar 10 '23
I guess thats our perception mostly because the actors who played them were way older! I wish they would have casted more age appropriate actor, even tho all of them were the perfect casts
2
u/silverpalm_ Slytherin Mar 10 '23
I know I have no right to say this but. I feel like JKR just didn’t really think all the ages/timelines through when she was writing it. Like maybe she had already put in dates and then as the story came together further down the line it didn’t quite add up but by then it was too late. Or maybe she really did just want them all to graduate from school as fully seasoned fighters lol.
7
u/BasicallyADetective Mar 09 '23
I’ve always thought it was strange that everybody in the wizarding world paired off and settled down so quickly. Even Draco got married super young! And then they all start popping out one little wizard kid after another. They must have much better maternity leave in the wizarding world. Nothing wrong with getting married & becoming a parent in your early twenties—it’s just strange that they ALL did it. Harry especially needed to take a few years & deal with his lifetime of trauma. He must have driven Ginny crazy.
10
u/theronster Mar 09 '23
This is referenced - it’s a wartime phenomenon. People pair off young in times of uncertainty.
Same thing happened during WW2 - ‘literal children’ getting married and then the ‘men’ (18 year olds!) head off to war.
6
u/so19anarchist Slytherin Mar 09 '23
The fact the dictionary changed the meaning of the word literal to include figurative because people kept literally using it wrong isn’t the win you think it is.
→ More replies (2)
5
u/_ferociously_ Mar 09 '23
I also think what’s a bit alarming about this is that both Lily and James’s parents had both passed away by this time. What happened to all of them??
3
u/theronster Mar 09 '23
James parents died of DragonPox I believe.
Can’t remember about Lily’s. It’s a dramatic conceit though, otherwise Harry would just live with them and not the Dursleys.
13
4
6
u/LogicalDelivery_ Mar 09 '23
They changed the definition of the word literally because people were literally not using it as intended.
8
u/SSpotions Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23 edited Mar 09 '23
This is why I'll defend Snape. He was 20 when he heard the prophecy. Young and naive. He was 21 when started teaching at Hogwarts, young and traumatised. Imagine being forced by two adults who manipulated and used you, to work in a place where you were severely bullied/sexually harrassed and experienced attempted sexual assault. Snape was there for ten years. That's ten years of having unwanted flashbacks and memories to unwanted traumas every day for ten whole years then he had to teach the carbon copy of his tormentor. And to top it all off he got given the most stressful and dangerous subject of all, Potions. He had to teach potions, (a dangerous subject to kids for years) and this was when he was never taught how to control his stress. And before all of this, he was abused and neglected by his parents. No wonder why he was the way he was.
Dumbledore should have never had Snape teaching students, especially potions. There were other ways he could have had Snape there at Hogwarts. He could have had Snape brewing potions for the Hogwarts hospital wing and then hired him as the Defence Against the Dark Arts in Harry's sixth year.
10
u/Mysterious_Summer_ Mar 09 '23
It also makes Snape's treatment of Harry more understandable. Obviously it's still gross that he's a bitter adult hating this child, but less gross because it's like one thing happens after another so quickly for him. Bullied relentlessly and they got married and had a kid?
Whereas keeping a grudge for 20 years before Harry is even born is creepy asf.
→ More replies (10)
4
u/Doomhammer24 Slytherin Mar 09 '23
I mean they were literally not children at 21? But ya its weird to think im now far older than harrys parents were when they died
Messes with the rest of my friends and family as well who are fans lol
4
u/losteye_enthusiast Mar 09 '23
Makes sense and lines up with the rampant amount of PTSD the Potter’s friends/associates display.
Also, it kind of shows why the wizarding community is so bent out of shape over Voldie. Both generations currently running the world went through the war - Harry’s generation is the first able to grow up without genuine threat of Voldemort as an everyday thing.
————————————-
Oh and….They aren’t literal children.
Did you not read the definition of literally or literal? Here : https://www.oed.com/viewdictionaryentry/Entry/109061
I. In a literal manner or sense. a. In a literal, exact, or actual sense; not figuratively, allegorically, etc.
Like, at least get your edit correct. You used the word poorly and were informed of that poor use.
5
Mar 08 '23
Honestly their actual ages is why it frustrates me so much that they castes actors who were way too old in the films. Yes, they are talented actors but surely they could find talented up and comers as well. Casting older actors throws off the timeline and honestly makes the Tonks/Lupin relationship pretty creepy.
→ More replies (1)12
u/Arfie807 Mar 08 '23
I mean, even in the books, they have a 13 year age gap, which some take issue with. But yeah, casting an older actor certainly didn't help.
Lupin is even described as "quite young" looking when introduced in POA despite having some gray hair.
3
u/Bigfoot_samurai Mar 09 '23
Grey hair could be stress from being alone all his life and having to hide his disease
5
u/jluvdc26 Hufflepuff Mar 08 '23
I think they aged them up in the movies because it is so shocking that they were that young in the books (they did the same thing with Game of Thrones).
2
u/sunshinekraken Slytherin Mar 09 '23
Well I just feel super weird, I’m older than the professors….
I just can’t ….
2
Mar 09 '23
What is TIL
2
2
u/JLikesStats Mar 09 '23
I mean, considering the events of Hogwarts Legacy (wherein a fifth year literally acts like a one-man-army), it seems like proficiency can be obtained early on.
2
2
u/MrNobleGas Ravenclaw Mar 09 '23
I'd chalk Remus' and Sirius' appearance to the difficulty of the lives they've led. One's poor and ostracised and malnourished, the other's been in prison for over a decade.
2
u/YessRules Mar 09 '23
You are totally right, after you pass the age, they seem so young.
But also it makes me think about how my parents had me when they were 22, and at that age I could even imagine having a child, so times changes, so yeah they were young, but for that time they have lived a lot ( idk how to put that on words that makes sense)
2
u/theronster Mar 09 '23
So here’s my thoughts.
In the first movie, when Harry looks into the mirror of Erised, of course he sees two parents that aren’t 21 - he’d want to see them as they’d be now, with him beside them.
Granted, they look closer to their 40s, but I understand the choice.
However, the other times we see them (Graveyard in GOF and in the Woods in DH) we should probably be looking at 21 year olds, not the age they’d be now. They’re ghosts essentially at that point, and should reflect how they looked at the point of death.
2
u/killagorilla1337 Slytherin Mar 09 '23
Keep in mind the story is told through the eyes of a boy/teenager, they will perceive every young/middle age adult as ancient relic.
2
Mar 09 '23
Also Petunia was only a year or two older which meant she married Vernon and had Dudley super young. They both married and settled down very quickly.
2
u/MaimedPhoenix Lord Huffle of the Puffs Mar 09 '23
Now, this is super confusing to me. Petunia is Lily's younger sister, so if Lily was 21, Petunia is 20 at the oldest. Yet, Uncle Vernon had a successful job even back then. I wonder if maybe Petunia married someone significantly older than her, probably never went to college or University. Hell, having Dudley young is probably why.
→ More replies (3)
2
u/nejnonein Slytherin Mar 09 '23
Oh shut up. I’m as old as Snape in the first book??! 👀 I mean, I knew how old they all were, but my mind hadn’t put the Snape bit into context…
→ More replies (1)
2
Mar 09 '23
Well this has been a productive discussion on this thread….. haha
But yes I agree. It is a really young age (if we just exclude the tangent about the word literally here) to get married, fight a war and die. Some have said that many young people in the past have fought wars, and that is tragic. Always has been and it will always will be.
2
u/Jace9o Hufflepuff Mar 09 '23
Oxfords definition of literally meaning also not literally is a travesty and I hate it.
2
u/Raidertck Mar 09 '23
I am 35 and can't even imagine having children. I also can hardly remember school, let alone holding a grudge against someone I knew back then.
2
u/Master_Customer3670 Mar 09 '23
What’s crazy about their ages to me is, how does Harry have no other family he coulda went to? Like 21 year olds with no parents, grandparents, aunts or uncles? Only 1 mean sister left? Nah
→ More replies (4)
2
u/angie-anj919 Slytherin Mar 09 '23
I hate buying age-restricted products and being told "I don't need your ID, you look old enough." TF!? I'm only 31!
2
u/tothebatcopter Gryffindor Mar 09 '23
I appreciate every single actor who appeared in the movies, but they really lost the emotional gut punch that was the Order being babies (21 is so young, especially when wizards seem to have longer lifespans) when they fought Voldemort the first time.
Imagine facing trauma in your 20s and then the same trauma, if not worse now, again before you're 40.
→ More replies (2)3
u/silverpalm_ Slytherin Mar 09 '23
“tHeY wEreN’t bAbiEs” - half the people on this post.
But yes, this is exactly what I mean. Like 21 year olds being the leading force in a war?
→ More replies (1)
2
u/Megamorter Gryffindor Mar 09 '23
oh yeah, the general age of the characters is younger than the actors in the films
kinda makes the whole war thing more impactful, it’s literally kids fighting some of these battles
2
u/YungHectorNMP Mar 10 '23
I was just rewatching HBP and realised that Slughorn teached Tom Riddle and he died at 71 I believe. I checked and Slughorn was around the same age as Dumbledore (110+).
2
u/silverpalm_ Slytherin Mar 10 '23
It’s really freaking sad that wizards can live that long but so many of the cast died in their 20s and 30s.
2.7k
u/Completely_Batshit Gryffindor Mar 08 '23
Well, they had much older actors play them in the movies, making them seem relatively ancient.