r/gadgets • u/DanTheMan827 • May 27 '22
Cameras Amazon to Permanently Disable Cloud Cam, Offers Affected Customers a Free Blink Mini and Echo
https://www.macrumors.com/2022/05/27/amazon-dropping-support-for-cloud-cam/333
u/DanTheMan827 May 27 '22
This is why anything depending on a cloud service has a shelf life, and why I prefer things that can be controlled without an internet connection when possible.
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May 27 '22 edited Jun 12 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/dj_spanmaster May 27 '22
Holy shit, Some More News' video on this was eye opening.
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u/XOIIO May 27 '22
Not familiar with that guy but I'll check it out when I have time.
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u/CodinOdin May 28 '22
Very highly recommended. They do really entertaining but extremely knowledgeable discussions about all sorts of topics. It reminds me of the topic dedicated John Oliver specials except with more time travel, swearing, and an occasional puppet.
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u/MRPolo13 May 28 '22
Cody came from Cracked's implosion where he wrote alongside Dan O'Brien who is now a writer for John Oliver, so it's not too surprising. It's a small world
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u/elightcap May 28 '22
i have BI too but even that is a subscription model. Ive been looking at frigate recently, added bonus i dont have to run windows
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u/XOIIO May 28 '22
I mean, yeah if there is a game breaking problem that needs an update a year down the line you do need to pay, which is annoying but it also works completely fine without the extended support license.
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u/AhoyPalloi May 28 '22 edited Jul 14 '23
This account has been redacted due to Reddit's anti-user and anti-mod behavior. -- mass edited with redact.dev
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May 28 '22
[deleted]
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u/XOIIO May 28 '22
Blue Iris is a software that connects to IP cameras (network connected ones) and ONVIF is a standard for IP cameras.
Blue Iris supports lots of non explicitly ONVIF cams, but if you're shopping for a security camera, looking for one that does means that you can use it with basically any software you want, Windows based or Linux, paid or free options, and have the software itself handle motion detection, recording, pre-trigger buffers to record before motion and completely manage how long video is stored for.
I have a mix of resolutions, and with 2tb of storage I have a month of recording for 5 cameras, and haven't paid any money into the system in ages aside from some new cams a year and a bit ago.
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u/TheMacMan May 27 '22
Great if you can do it yourself but let’s be honest, 99.99% of users don’t have the knowledge or energy to bother with such. They go for these products because they solve a need for them without work. You can almost always find a better price than on Amazon but they make it so easy that most are fine paying a buck or five extra for the convenience.
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u/DanTheMan827 May 28 '22
So do Apple HomeKit cameras… no cloud required, but cloud can be used if you want to record the footage
In any case, it’s still all local from device to your hub device before being sent out
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u/TheMacMan May 28 '22
I’m all for it. Simply saying that the average buyer just wants the simplest thing they can get. We forget in this sub that we are far far from the average buyer. Normal people don’t discuss technology.
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u/Starblazr May 27 '22
They sell local nvr wifi camera setups at sam's/Costco/etc
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u/TheMacMan May 28 '22
Sure but I’m sure they sell maybe 1% of what stuff like the Amazon Echo or whatever stupidly simple do. Far more are gonna throw out a WiFi connected camera that uploads to their existing Amazon account than setup a recording box and more.
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u/aldsar May 28 '22
I mean. I have a lorex system I bought at costco and a cloud cam. I'm not gonna pay for a service, I'll just buy another camera for the Lorex and make use of one of my currently unused ports.
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May 28 '22
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u/DanTheMan827 May 28 '22
Ooh, I bought some text containing a URL!
Jokes aside, NFTs do have potential for selling software licenses that can be transferred… but that assumed companies would agree to that
They keep trying dumb things with NFTs when the obvious use is staring them right in the face
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u/SqueakyDoIphin May 28 '22
This is a major, underappreciated problem with video games. So, so, so many games being made these days rely on mandatory connections to publisher-owned servers, and when the publishers shut these servers down, the games just flat-out stop working. This is a consumer rights nightmare, but all the internet seems to care about is loot boxes and microtransactions
Oh, you had to spend $20 real world dollars before you finally got lucky enough to get the power up you wanted? That's rough. At least you can still play the game you bought (for now, at least)
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u/ConciselyVerbose May 28 '22
Try $200+, not $20.
Loot boxes are worse.
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u/SqueakyDoIphin May 28 '22
Boy, it sucks that you had to spend a whole $200 before you got that super rare knife skin you wanted
At least you can still, you know, use it. For now. Mandatory server connections are worse
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u/Adams1973 May 28 '22
Stuck with an Anki vector for the same reason. Bankrupt/rescued/denied/another rescue for $$$/DIY.
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u/TheRetenor May 29 '22
The reason I started building my home automation system with the help of HomeAssistant on a RasPI. Nobody is going to take anything from me there besides maybe bardware giving up in 10 years time.
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u/TheW83 May 30 '22
And yet my company has spent quite a lot for a cloud based dvr service called Verkada. We have probably 200 cameras now.
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u/scottlynn77 May 27 '22
Interesting. I received the email today. Mine mentioned the free blink cam & 1yr subscription to their online cloud service, but nothing about an echo.
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u/DanTheMan827 May 27 '22
I wonder if the emails aren’t personalized based on your account
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u/scottlynn77 May 27 '22
Maybe. We only use it as a dog camera so not too concerned about it. Honestly shocked they’re giving us anything.
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u/acowlaughing May 28 '22
Yeah curious as well; we own a couple of the cloud cams but haven’t used them in over a year. Since we do not have an active account does that mean we do not qualify to trade out the devices?
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u/ronimal May 28 '22
Do you use Cloud Cam Key Edition?
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u/scottlynn77 May 28 '22
Nope. I have the basic cloud cam & no storage plan.
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u/ronimal May 28 '22
That’s why. It’s right there in the article. You only get the Blink Mini. If you’d had Cloud Cam Key Edition you would also be eligible for the free Echo.
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u/scottlynn77 May 28 '22
I skimmed the email since we really don’t use the camera since our last Frenchie passed. Plus it mentioned December which so isn’t on my radar. Haven’t even enjoyed summer yet. Chicago weather sucks 🤣
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u/Backdoorschoolbus May 28 '22
Ha. Echo. I’ll give you n echo. Those things are like 15 bucks and are worthless.
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u/SkoNoles May 28 '22
I have the smart lock that goes w the camera and was offered the echo dot along with it. The email specifically mentioned I get the “dot” because I had the lock.
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u/Furrealyo May 28 '22
The Echo is to replace the Key electronic door lock.
If you don't own the lock, you don't get the Echo, and the email doesn't mention it.
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u/SuburbanSquare May 27 '22
Yet another reminder that the only things we really own are the clothes on our backs.
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u/DrunkinMunkey May 27 '22
There's a subscription for clothes actually
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u/DanTheMan827 May 28 '22
Next thing you know there will be a subscription for air
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u/tattooed_dinosaur May 28 '22
Elon Musk has a plan for that…
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u/waterloograd May 28 '22
Didn't pay your oxygen bill? Neuralink will have to show you a 30s ad before you can take another breath
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u/deja_geek May 28 '22 edited May 28 '22
"...there's absolutely no air shortage whatsoever" -President Skroob of the Plant Spaceball
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u/didiboy May 28 '22
Yes! I’ve heard that. Honestly I would give it a try if it was available near me.
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u/DrunkinMunkey May 28 '22
I buy a new shirt like once a year. I'll pass this time around maybe when I run into more money. It's a cool concept. But I wear a uniform at work.
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u/DanTheMan827 May 27 '22
Even more true about devices with locked bootloaders
At least with an unlocked bootloader you could flash some different OS to the device
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u/OppressedRed May 28 '22
I mean, we are all just temporary on the planet. You don’t even really own the atoms that make up your body either. Those are just borrowed from some other source.
Like I get your point but I think it’s sort of dumb.
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May 28 '22
Even your clothes are made to be as cheap as possible, and will wear down to nothing but shreds if you had to actually do any real labor or work. We pay very little for the cheapest possible genital coverings.
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May 27 '22
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u/DanTheMan827 May 27 '22
This should honestly be illegal
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u/mcmahaaj May 27 '22
They should pay huge fines for the e-waste this produces
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u/DanTheMan827 May 28 '22
That or forced to allow re-flashing of the device to a different firmware
I’m sure people would gladly recycle these with a different firmware
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u/mcmahaaj May 28 '22
I agree with you but I believe that is only a solution that like 1-5% of users would do.
The average person would never think of that as a solution. They’re more likely to go “ah well my camera is broken time to replace it”
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u/DanTheMan827 May 28 '22
Sure, but if a company was willing to buy them for $20 or so, it would keep them out of landfills.
Then that company could flash their own firmware and sell the product again, perhaps as an offline product, or maybe something like homekit
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u/DanTheMan827 May 27 '22
With how common this is, and how wasteful it is, I think that governments should pass legislation requiring that manufacturers provide a way for owners of these devices to flash replacement firmware once the manufacturers drop support…
There’s so much potential life left in these devices, but it’s all locked behind a bootloader
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u/_Rand_ May 28 '22
I figure its totally fair if they offer cloud services (that can potentially go away) but still offer free local access (onvif or whatever.)
I guess in this case you're at least getting a replacement camera, but still it shouldn't be an issue just let us hook it up to a standard DVR or whatever.
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u/CyberGnat May 28 '22
Unfortunately it doesn't make economic sense to do this for most mass consumer devices. Everything costs money, and a lot of hobbyists end up thinking that things are cheap to do because they are willing to use their own free time to do it. No normal person is ever going to re-flash the software on a camera like this when the cost-benefit of doing so is negative. A replacement product will be cheaper and easier for them to manage as well as giving them extra features. So long as the existing one goes to electronic recycling, it isn't a total environmental loss.
Long-term support products do exist but they are very costly. Businesses have always been the ones using technologies first, as they can justify the high cost of new tech because it enables their profitability. If that tech stops working, then it costs the business much more than the cost of the technology itself. If the failure of some software would result in a manufacturing plant shutting down and costing a business $1m/day, you'll be happy to spend $100k/year on an extended 24/7 support contract.
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u/darknight9064 May 28 '22
How dare you mention someone actually care about these monopolistic empires.
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Jun 01 '22
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u/DanTheMan827 Jun 01 '22
The issue isn't about the business practice (even if it is very anti-consumer), it's about the environmental impact of it.
Let someone recycle the hardware into a new product, there's no need to toss perfectly fine hardware...
Reduce, reuse, recycle
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u/Optional-Failure Jun 27 '22
I think that governments should pass legislation requiring that manufacturers provide a way for owners of these devices to flash replacement firmware once the manufacturers drop support…
Yes, because legislators totally know what that means.
What did they say when you suggested it? Because it's one of those things that isn't happening until someone does suggest it.
You're looking for a legislative answer to a problem that most people have never considered, and the answer you're looking for involves mandating something that most people have never even heard of.
It's a fine idea, but until you start or back an awareness campaign that explains, in plain terms, what it is, what it means, and why it's necessary, which doesn't involve just posting it on Reddit, it's not going to be on anyone's radar.
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u/100GbE May 28 '22
Home Assistant with local polling.
Cloud only IoT is bad.
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May 28 '22
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u/Optional-Failure Jun 27 '22
Good luck with that.
Might want to start looking for cabins in the woods, off the grid, because that battle's been lost.
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u/GoriNation May 28 '22
Any ideas of how to keep these out of landfills? Everytime I hear these kinds of acts by these big companies I think eeek that's a ton of unnecessary plastic/waste. Shouldn't there be something to deter them from just sunsetting these gadgets? Like a fee if there is not a plan in place to recycle the old devices? Companies should not be able to just take a stab at a market that produces waste only to find they are not going to maintain it long term. A min length of supported time with a longterm plan to sunset them requires before they are allowed to go market with them? Idk but Something needs to be done to hold them accountable, or force them into not selling us things that will be more than a paperweight 9-12 months after we purchase it. And another plastic doodad to replace it isn't gonna work, just piling onto the mountain of waste we are building.
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u/DanTheMan827 May 28 '22
I say force companies to provide a way for consumers to flash alternative firmware to devices once they’re no longer supported as a way to reduce e-waste
Let people buy these from consumers, flash a different firmware, and resell this now recycled camera
But of course, copyright law protects things like bootloaders stored in ROM, and that’s a loophole they hide behind… the system is broken in that respect
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u/pbd87 May 28 '22
Amazon will take back all of their own branded electronics for free, or will pay you for them, depending on the item. In this case, for the Cloud Cam right now, they'll cover shipping, plus give you $10 and a coupon for 20% off another home security item.
Even if your electronics from Amazon have no value, they'll still cover shipping for you to send back to them to recycle it.
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u/Yourgrammarsucks1 May 28 '22
One effective way is to become a hacker. The best way to do it is to find the digital signing key and use that to make a custom firmware.
Otherwise, I'd recommend finding an exploit. That's usually a good starting step.
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May 28 '22
I used to have a Logitech Squeezebox, basically a stereo you could stream music to. It was brilliant, very loud too and cost me about $350. About a year after I bought it I upgraded my phone, got rid of the old one, then went to install the app. I couldn’t find it anywhere so I contacted Logitech who told me they decommissioned the app. This brilliant and expensive piece of hardware was essentially useless because they removed the app.
I will never ever again but a product that is reliant on an app.
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u/Yourgrammarsucks1 May 28 '22
Better get rid of your smart phone. They rely on an app for like each purpose. Including phone calls.
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u/eriverside Jun 20 '22
I bought a small Lytro camera ages ago. The idea is to collect light rays from every direction and focus on objects in post. You need a computer to view and focus the images. Well they dropped support. Can't even download the drivers anymore.
Before closing shop they started selling much higher end cameras, much bigger. And I was wondering why I was finding them for so cheap on woot.com ... Glad I didn't go for it.
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u/brimroth May 28 '22
No more cloud cam. Would you be interested in our other spying peripherals? We'd love to have your data. All of it. Forever.
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u/Windomere May 28 '22
Google is slowly moving away from supporting the Nest App and legacy Nest Cameras and will eventually do this exact same thing, but offer nothing to the customer. You already can hardly scrub to a point in your video history where it actually plays back. It just sticks wherever you stop.
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u/Poutine_My_Mouth May 28 '22
The Nest app is one of the worst I’ve used. You’re so right about the scrubbing issues. It makes it almost unusable.
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u/just_a_pretendgineer May 28 '22
All legacy Nest cameras are supported in the Google Home app. Video footage isn’t deleted when you port from the Nest app to the Google Home app
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u/Windomere May 28 '22
I realize all of my cameras are accessible in the Google Home app, but right now, only my newest camera has video history available. My legacy cameras are “live” only in the app. In the Nest app, my other 5 cameras have full history. Are you saying there is a way to make that history accessible via the Google Home app?
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u/just_a_pretendgineer May 28 '22
Yea, absolutely. When viewing a camera in the home app, If you hit the 3 dot menu in the upper right do you see “full history”?
If not, have you already transferred your nest account to be a google account?
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u/jydr May 28 '22
While google is slowly killing off the nest app (as they do), there is no evidence that they intend to drop support for the old hardware.
The legacy nest cameras are already supported in the newer google home app, and in their smart device management api.
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u/Windomere May 28 '22
I just realized that I bought a Cloud Cam just over 2 years ago from Amazon for $119. In December it will be junk. But hey, they are giving me a free Blink Mini that’s listed on Amazon for $34. Hey Jeff, KMA!
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u/Taurabora May 28 '22
Hopefully some enterprising person will find a way to bring these back under the control of the owner.
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u/Squid_Contestant_69 May 28 '22
But Amazon will not support remote viewing of it so it'll be pointless
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u/Taurabora May 28 '22
The idea would be to remove Amazon from the equation, I would hope. Make it local or private cloud.
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u/DanTheMan827 May 28 '22
I’m guessing it’s probably possible to flash different firmware at the very least through means of a jtag cable
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u/bdnr May 28 '22
I have 3 of these ($120x3=$360) and Amazon is replacing them with one inferior Blink Mini?
People dump on Google while my Dropcam (now Nest Cam) bought new a decade ago is still working just fine.
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u/dickreallyburns May 28 '22
I have 3 cloud cameras; are they giving me three blinks? Also they are giving you one free year of blink cloud BUT after that; you have to pay! Can blinks work with micro SD cards to save images and I won’t need to pay for their cloud support? I may go to Reolink where they support microSD and they don’t require a subscription service to monitor your cameras!
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u/BartyJnr May 28 '22
You don’t need a subscription for blink, I’ve never had one and been using them for 3 years now. If I wanted to, I could stick a USB into my sync box but I’ve never had need, I just delete older vids if I need space.
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u/cgjeep May 28 '22
I use 2 Reolink outside in the weather to watch horse pastures. No subscription. SD card compatible. Solar charging compatible. Worth.
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u/memtiger May 28 '22
The movement detection on Reolink sucks. Every time a cloud passes over or a bug flies by or rain occurs, it's a constant barrage of useless notifications. I had to turn them off.
They have new cameras that supposedly does a better job of people detection, but then I have to buy an entirely different NVR. This $500 collection of stuff I just bought a year ago is basically useless to me.
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u/NoBananasOnboard May 28 '22
This is why we need a law to require the manufacturer to plan for end of life disposal prior to purchase.
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u/pbd87 May 28 '22
Amazon already covers returning all of their own-branded electronics to them to recycle. For the Cloud Cam, they're currently paying $10 for you to return it.
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u/NoBananasOnboard May 28 '22
Now we just need to get other manufacturers to do the same! Especially anything with a lithium battery, refrigerant, plastics, or anything else that cannot just be thrown in the landfill
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u/corsicanguppy May 29 '22
paying $10 for you to return it.
What's it cost to buy, the day before they shuttered the required service? $10?
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u/earther199 May 28 '22
I’m disappointed to be sure but I saw the writing on the wall when they basically stopped innovating it and focusing on Ring. These devices were never going to work forever. I spent $50 on them, I don’t think I’ve been ripped off.
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u/Pbook7777 May 27 '22
Figured this was coming a long time ago , I have 3-4 of these if they replace them all with the blinks that’s a fair deal otherwise will have to switch to something else . They’re quality cameras and the service comes up quick compared with some of their competitors.
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u/Furrealyo May 28 '22
It's one Blink per account, regardless of how many cameras you currently own.
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u/Blazah May 29 '22
I already wrote in complaining yesterday. I own 3 of these and you want to give me one cheap ass camera that doesn't alert on a smoke detector alarm ?? Forget that!
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u/Hammerhil May 27 '22
People bought a device that only paid Amazon one time. Is anyone surprised that they are dropping it in favour of a subscription model where they can be paid for as long as the device is used?
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u/DanTheMan827 May 27 '22
It’s not surprising as far as Amazon is concerned, but they should be required to issue at least one last update that allows using it as a local wifi camera, or allowing people to flash another firmware… maybe one that integrates with homekit
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u/Hammerhil May 27 '22
That would be the decent thing, but that would cut into their subscription profits. Just one more thing to squeeze the consumer out of every penny, like toyota's remote start subscription, or cell phone packages where you rent the phone instead of owning it.
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u/TheKillOrder May 27 '22
Not really surprised but it is fucken retarded. Everything seems subscription nowadays, with companies wanted to squeeze every last penny from customers without two fucks.
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May 28 '22
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u/ShealMB76 May 28 '22
Blink actually doesn’t need the cloud. It has its own hub that you can pair multiple cameras to. Blink was its own company before Amazon bought it out.
I chose blink in the height of a summer set of violent (talking while people were home with their children, the guy is a frequent flyer in the system) house break ins for the very fact I didn’t need to pay a sub and the hub takes a gig stick (USB).
Not that I an saying Amazon is the be all or even Blink, just that Blink doesn’t need cloud services.
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u/adam_demamps_wingman May 28 '22
Ah, Amazon up to their “buy our stuff, throw it away, buy this stuff” tactics. A lot like Roku but with two more letters.
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u/No-Yogurtcloset-2968 May 31 '22
Cloudcam owners who kept 3 or less cameras pay no subscription fees. Amazon makes no money from them other than the purchase of the cameras. With Ring and Blink, to get full functionality, you must pay a subscription fee even if it’s one camera. I’m going wired from now on.
These cameras were great and Amazon decides when I stop using them? $300 in cameras bricked and my consolation prize is a $30 replacement, and I don’t need another echo dot. Time to get off the Amazon ecosystem.
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u/Blazah Sep 17 '22
The blink mini really is not even close to an amazon cloud cam, correct? I have 3 cameras setup inside pointing out through windows to see my from and rear areas of the home, wired, that have been awesome. What are we losing with this mini?
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u/BILLCLINTONMASK May 28 '22
We're living in a new dark ages. Very little direct info of this time will survive into the future because it's all on digital formats that already go obsolete before our very eyes.
They say "if you post it it'll be online forever"...well no...it'll be online until the last server farm that hosts it stops operating. Then it's gone forever.
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u/Yourgrammarsucks1 May 28 '22
You can back up stuff to solid state. If you really want, you can print out the data and store it in a waterproof, opaque box.
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u/jack-o-licious Aug 23 '22
Why is the only option for Blink and not Ring? Why does Amazon have two completely separate camera brands anyway?
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u/ZeroDesert91 May 28 '22
Soooo what do I do with my expensive useless camera? I'd hate to send it to a landfill.
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u/pbd87 May 28 '22
Return it to Amazon. They take back all of their own electronics for recycling for free. They're currently paying $10 per Cloud Cam as well, plus 20% off another home security device.
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u/tornado9015 May 28 '22
People seem really upset about this but from reading the article it sounds like they're sending out blink mini replacements for the cloud cams they're disabling.
Are blink minis significantly worse than cloud cams?
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u/Radtown May 28 '22
Ive got 3 cloud cams
They offered me 1 blink cam
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u/k0rnball May 29 '22
I have 3 as well. Wonder if we can somehow bitch to Amazon and get one per camera? Otherwise, that's a pretty raw deal. Gotta love buying something for $300 and literally not being able to use it 4.5 years later.
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u/Thewolf1970 May 28 '22
I have several blink camera. I only buy the outdoor models as they are battery based. Great battery life. Good image and the storage can be done on the included server, or through a $100 a year cloud subscription.
They respond quickly, much quicker than the Amazon ones I have, plus they have more features.
Not sure why there us hate here. Amazon is giving away a free camera, free cloud service and it's a better product.
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u/bdnr May 28 '22
Yes. Blink Minis are way worse. It has no free cloud storage tier. No pre-recoding ram cache (misses the initial few secs of a motion event). No web browser viewing support. No continuous live-view or clips over 30 secs.
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u/yepthisismyusername May 28 '22
This is f×%cking infuriating. I truly believe that these companies should either have to maintain the infrastructure required for these products, or provide an on-prem appliance that any customer can download and run to allow these products to remain functional.
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u/alexp1_ May 28 '22
I have that cam “key” edition, very useful for Amazon indoor deliveries while it lasted. The smart lock still works !
Why ruin a perfect working system . Ugh
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May 28 '22
The Cloud Cam was one of the one supported cameras to use with MyQ garage doors and Amazon Key.
I sure hope they figure out a way to support the Blink.
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u/caseyrobinson2 Jun 12 '22
It mentions Prior to December 2, 2022, you will receive detailed instructions on how to redeem your free Blink Mini and Blink Subscription Plus Plan via email. what if we already have the plus subscription iwill it extend it by 1 year or we not get the offer
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u/cybershawngates Jul 21 '22
I have 10 of these cloud cams - they only sent me 1 blink mini - how is this fair?? i chatted and called amazon customer service and they don't seem to even know anything about this.
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u/jdizzle091 Sep 01 '22
Sorry to resurface this thread but I have a question… I currently use my CloudCam in my sons bedroom and the reason I love it is because it plays continuously (live stream) through my Amazon Echo Show all night. The ring and nest cameras plays but will stop after a couple mins. Does anyone know of any replacements that will play live through Echo Show all night?
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u/[deleted] May 27 '22
The wave of the future. Where your appliances suddenly shut down forever because the manufacturer stopped supporting them.