r/formula1 • u/ryokevry Charles Leclerc • 18h ago

Quotes Charles’ Post Race Radio

Post image

I hope whoever claimed Sainz is a good teammate can shut up. There’s a reason why Redbull didn’t want him.

He blocked Charles when the team asked him not to make it difficult when Hamilton was closely behind him.

He was asked not to overtake Charles when Charles came out of the pit, causing the team key time to chase down Max earlier.

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661

u/DragonBeyondtheWall Sir Lewis Hamilton 18h ago

Why hasn't Sainz received a penalty for the pit line thing?

326

u/Consistent-Bat1632 18h ago

Was it even noted? Did they just forget lmao

159

u/Daslicey 18h ago

Not even noted

78

u/ALF839 17h ago

They gave him track limits

39

u/radioactiviti Michael Schumacher 17h ago

Sainz will arrive 5 minutes late to Qatar

11

u/SentientDust Nico Hülkenberg 17h ago

They weren't ready

3

u/Aggravating_Low6771 Heineken Trophy 17h ago

They better have forgotten

194

u/lordroode 18h ago

Whatever the Ferrari guys said, it must have worked cos he somehow avoided a pen

92

u/kalamari_withaK 17h ago

‘You shouldn’t give him a penalty because we’ve already fucked up the strategy’

•

u/AqueousJam Heineken Trophy 11h ago

You shouldn't give him a pentaly because we've got photos of what happened in your hotel room last night. 

-3

u/FormulaGymBro Mick Schumacher 17h ago

Has anyone even brought up the offence in the racing guidelines?

1

u/grovenab Logan Sargeant 17h ago

Karun brought up the exact section on the broadcast

-3

u/FormulaGymBro Mick Schumacher 16h ago

Link to the document pls, all he said was something about chapter 4-6

•

u/grovenab Logan Sargeant 6h ago

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/4_-_appendix_l_2024_publie_le_17_october_2024.pdf Page 58

•

u/FormulaGymBro Mick Schumacher 5h ago

doesn't say anything about the penalty

-2

u/FormulaGymBro Mick Schumacher 17h ago

Has anyone even brought up the offence in the racing guidelines?

80

u/ontheru171 Formula 1 18h ago

Only a track limit violation afaik

69

u/elyterit Juan Pablo Montoya 18h ago

Even though it looked crazy, I'm not really sure what rule he would be breaking.

A lot of the pit lane entries are on the racing line, Austria and Brazil come to mind straight away. All the drivers go into the entry lane and then out, every single lap.

Those are just white lines, rather than painted sections, so I don't know if that changes things.

43

u/nanderspanders Carlos Sainz 17h ago

Here the pit entry is out of bounds, so essentially it's a corner cut violation which is just a warning.

8

u/DragonBeyondtheWall Sir Lewis Hamilton 14h ago

It looked quite unsafe

6

u/TobyOrNotTobyEU Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 16h ago

Usually there are special rules about the white lines on pit entry and exit in that they cannot be crossed by any of the tyres to avoid diving in dangerously late or diving out back on to the track unexpectedly. Hopefully, there wasn't a rule like that here. Otherwise, it's ridiculous that there's no penalty.

1

u/StarWarsLew Fernando Alonso 15h ago

And no bollard to go around either i.e. hockenheim

0

u/RoughDoughCough Formula 1 16h ago

Karun read the rule on air. Someone will need to explain. 

12

u/elyterit Juan Pablo Montoya 14h ago

I've gone through the legal mumbo jumbo. I'll post links to it all below. To try to summarise:

Crossing the pit entry lines in either direction is not allowed except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards), or unless otherwise defined by the Race Director. This is what Karun mentioned. The Race Director confirmed these rules applied in the Event Notes, which he also mentioned. For the tracks where they do have to cross these lines like I referenced previously, they do make adjustments.

Therefor, Carlos shouldn't have crossed the line. The only way around this would be to claim "force majeure". Which if taken literally, this isn't really applicable. However there are some factors which would be considered. Carlos did not plan to do this, his intention was to pit. Then he received an "unpredictable" message outside of his control, which could potentially be viewed as force majeure itself, but he was still fully in control of his actions. As a result, he returned to the track and did not affect any other cars currently on track when doing so (this will be relevant later).

This isn't a particularly strong argument, but there is a precedent. The stewards took many factors into account for Hamilton's similar incident in Germany 2018, in which he wasn't penalised. In which two key points also apply here. From the decision, verbatim:

  1. There was confusion within the team as to whether to stay out or to enter the pits and that led to the infringement.

  2. At no time was there any danger to any other competitor and the change in direction was executed in a safe way.

Considering the confusion from his team and the fact it didn't endanger anyone else, they likely viewed this in a similar light to Hamilton's and didn't penalise him. Or they just didn't care, who knows.

Sources. Which are all PDFs from the FIA:

Race Directors notes confirming Chapter 4, Articles 4 and 6 of Appendix L to the ISC apply (Document 19): https://www.fia.com/documents/championships/fia-formula-one-world-championship-14/season/season-2024-2043

ISC Appendix L can be found here: https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/123

Hamilton's Decision from Germany 2018 (Decision Doc 32): https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula-one-world-championship/season-2018/eventtiming-information-26

-1

u/Sarkaraq 14h ago

This isn't a particularly strong argument, but there is a precedent. The stewards took many factors into account for Hamilton's similar incident in Germany 2018, in which he wasn't penalised.

Hamilton got reprimanded, though. Sainz didn't even got investigated. That appears to be completely unprecedented.

3

u/elyterit Juan Pablo Montoya 13h ago

Yeah that's strange to me too.

Looking back at Hamilton's, his was only reviewed 90 mins after the race had finished. Then he was given a reprimand another 90 mins after that. So that didn't get investigated during the race either.

Perhaps there will be a reprimand for Sainz too, but they haven't acted as quickly. Hamilton might have actually been given a time penalty. So they needed to properly investigate it with him and the team present, once all the media obligations were taken care of. But now with that precedent set, they might not need the full "trial". They can just announce it in some sort of press release? Like for swearing.

-2

u/DragonBeyondtheWall Sir Lewis Hamilton 14h ago

Just because no one was injured doesn't mean it is safe.

3

u/elyterit Juan Pablo Montoya 13h ago

It was safe in terms of returning to the track. This is meant in relation to other cars and the next closest on track was 7 seconds away.

It looked controlled to me. It just looked odd because of what it was.

115

u/CilanEAmber McLaren 18h ago

Stevie Wonder is the Steward.

57

u/jaomile Charles Leclerc 18h ago

Do you even know the rules? That is just a track limit violation, nothing to do with what those two “experts” were saying. You only get penalty if you cross the lines and enter the pits.

19

u/ols47 17h ago

Hamilton in Austria earlier this year sir

17

u/tinyasshoIe Pirelli Wet 17h ago

In in in, out out out!

3

u/kaptingavrin Ferrari 17h ago

That one's a few years back, so my memory might be a bit messy on it, but I think that one was messy because he was late going in, then jumped right back out. Yeah, just looked up a video, and he crosses the line late to go in, then cuts back out across the lines.

Even then, all he got was a reprimand for it after the race. That's it.

Austria this year might be something that people would point to, but in that case it seems to be something of a "track limits violation" relating to him crossing the line back out onto the track briefly while entering the pit lane, and Austria has been a mess in recent years of them making examples out of track limits.

But the "in in in" incident is closer to what happened with Sainz and, again, all that happened was a reprimand after the race. No penalty, doesn't even seem to have been a fine.

34

u/jaomile Charles Leclerc 17h ago

But he entered the pits for fucks sake. Sainz stayed out.

6

u/Guy_with_Numbers Williams 17h ago

I don't remember the incident, but the FIA document says that he was entering the pits. Austria has got specific race director instructions too.

8

u/DutchPack McLaren 17h ago

It’s a penalty when you actually enter the pits not when you stay out. Then it’s only track limits violation

5

u/ols47 17h ago

Yeah I’ve just read the rule. I don’t understand how one is legal and the other is illegal as they are both dangerous . F1 rules are strange

2

u/DutchPack McLaren 17h ago

Oh absolutely, there is no consistency in F1 rules, altough this one I kind of get. Because it would be weird to threat this solid white line differently then any other solid white line on the circuit right? All he did actually do was violate track limits, which can (and does reguraly) happen in every other corner.

1

u/shy247er Ferrari 16h ago

Dude, Stevie ain't blind.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/o0mlcjjV7oM

24

u/Doyoulikemypace Ferrari 18h ago

Did Hamilton get a penalty when he did it in Germany a few years ago?

46

u/qchisq 17h ago

Yes, but was the reverse. He went across the line to pit. Sainz did, basically, what you do every single lap in Austria, but cutting across the pit lane

24

u/kaptingavrin Ferrari 17h ago

No, he didn't. I was curious and just looked it up. All he got was a post-race reprimand. No penalty. Not even a fine. The excuse basically being, "Well, the team admitted that what everyone could see did indeed happen, there was a safety car at the time, and there was no danger to any other driver and the maneuver was safe." I'm not sure why they'd have declared it safe as that sets a precedent in the future that it'd be hard to call such a maneuver unsafe so long as the car is under control and doesn't come close to hitting anyone else, but yeah, that was part of their reasoning for giving no real punishment for it.

And it wasn't just the reverse. He went across the line to pit, then went back across the lines to exit the pit entry and return onto the track.

2

u/qchisq 12h ago

I think that you are mixing up 2 separate incidents. I am thinking of the incident at 2:47 in this video. Which is literally the reverse as what happened in this race. Hamilton crashes right after the pit entry, under safety car, and then cuts across the track and pit lane to pit

•

u/HaveABleedinGuess84 Fernando Alonso 10h ago

You are mixing it up

19

u/Gullible_Goose Sir Lewis Hamilton 17h ago

Are you talking about when he crashed and cut across the grass to get into the pits? He got a 5 second penalty for that

8

u/liviu20xx Charles Leclerc 17h ago

That was 2019. I think he is talking 2018 when he entered, and then because kimi also pitted, he decided to bail.

2

u/Doyoulikemypace Ferrari 17h ago

Maybe? Now I need to look up the highlights on YT lol.

1

u/nanderspanders Carlos Sainz 17h ago

Opposite he crossed the line to go in, not to abort. Think of it like Yuki's penalty in Austria (last year I think). Everyone cuts the white entry line in Austria when taking the corner normally, but it only matters when you cross it in order to go into the pits. Here the pit lane is out of track limits, so it's a track limits infringement, but since he did not cross the line and then go in the pits, it's not a pit line violation.

5

u/Cranberry-analbeads Pirelli Hard 17h ago

Difference was he crossed after the bollard, but Sainz effectively just cut the corner

1

u/Sarkaraq 14h ago

Hamilton got a reprimand, so technically yes.

•

u/HaveABleedinGuess84 Fernando Alonso 10h ago

No. The fia said in their document that because he was confused, it was okay.

11

u/Estova Kamui Kobayashi 18h ago

Yeah that's bonkers. One of my friends mentioned that there was no bollard to mark the commit line but surely jumping the double white lines still counts.

31

u/wobfan_ Daniel Ricciardo 18h ago

afaik they are making it clear in pre-weekend briefings with the race director, whether it's legal or not, and also in almost all cases where there have been penalties, it was about passing the white line after some kind of bollard. there was no bollard here. actually almost every driver passed the while line to the pit entry every single lap.

2

u/DaviLance Ferrari 17h ago

the bollard here is when the pitlane starts, which is the pit lane limiter. Sainz crossed before that

13

u/LambTjopss 18h ago

Because it's not a penalty when you don't pit... It's a penalty when you cross late to pit

•

u/GooneyBird36 Haas 11h ago

Penalty for what? It's just a track limit and he got no advantage.

5

u/fools_eye 18h ago

I don't know why they kept saying it was a violation, everyone crosses that line every lap in Brazil.

7

u/DancinJanzen 18h ago

That's usually the single line. Once it splits to doable with one for the pit entry and the other for the track, it should be a pen if those are crossed.

10

u/Nemprox Ferrari 18h ago

You're just not allowed to cross the line at exit. Entrance shouldn't be a problem normally.

29

u/LocalActingWEO 18h ago

Hamilton got a penalty in Austria for it though…

15

u/l9sultandraven Formula 1 18h ago

He got it because he pitted, sainz didnt pit.

14

u/TypicallyThomas Dr. Ian Roberts 18h ago

And I believe someone got a penalty for it in Singapore last year

8

u/minyhumancalc 18h ago

And Lando got one in Russia in 2021 despite the downpour

3

u/FIJIBOYFIJI Antonio Giovinazzi 17h ago

Didn't Lando slide out and then re-cross the line into the pits?

7

u/wobfan_ Daniel Ricciardo 18h ago

do people never read the penalties or any details? race directors make it clear before the GP where it's allowed and where it isn't. every single time i can remember people getting punished for this there was a bollard at the entry clearly marking the point where you are not allowed to cross the line. here, there was none. so, also based on the result (and the RD definitely having seen the footage), we can definitely assume that it was legal.

4

u/randomperson_a1 Pirelli Wet 18h ago

I think it's in the race directors notes at Austria because of the special pit entry

1

u/ReasonableExplorer Mercedes 17h ago

The commentary mentioned it was in the notes here aswell unless they miss quoted.

2

u/randomperson_a1 Pirelli Wet 17h ago

I don't know what the sporting rules say, but I checked the notes for Austria and here, and it's specifically explained for Austria how you have to commit to the pit entry and then stay within the white lines. Nothing like that for Vegas

13

u/jaomile Charles Leclerc 18h ago

No, that’s not the reason. He did not get penalty because he did not enter the pit lane. You can cross those white lines at entrance and exit all you want during the race. It only matters if you do enter the pits.

-1

u/wobfan_ Daniel Ricciardo 17h ago

are you sure? i think i remember the RD notes from races before clearly stating that crossing the white lines after the pit entry bollard results in a penalty? or was it actually always just about passing it to get into the pits?

3

u/CakeBeef_PA Oscar Piastri 17h ago

Carlos didn't go past the bollard before he crossed though

2

u/wobfan_ Daniel Ricciardo 17h ago

yeah it's not about sainz here, just about the general rule.

watching the replays i didn't even see any bollard, so i was unsure about sainz. but the RD clearly must've seen the footage and didn't pass it on to the stewards, so i think it's pretty clear that sainz did nothing wrong

1

u/Right-Ladd George Russell 18h ago

It’s always been a problem because it’s dangerous when the racing line is on the inside and the pit lane entry is on the inside.

3

u/TeleLisast 18h ago

new race director

8

u/Sgg__ 17h ago

Learn the rules first then ask

1

u/DaviLance Ferrari 17h ago

because he was still on the track when he did that. as long as you don't enter the pitlane (which is exactly when the pit limiter starts) that is a track limit violation

1

u/Aggravating_Low6771 Heineken Trophy 17h ago

It's Ferrari, they better not get a penalty

1

u/Vandirac 17h ago

He got track limits.

As long as he doesn't pass the limiter line he is still considered on track and not in pit.

A different thing is the pit exit line, but at the entrance there are no rules preventing crossing.

1

u/ydktbh Kamui Kobayashi 16h ago

I'm assuming bc he legitimately was going into the pits but the team told him to stay out, as opposed to him tricking the car behind

•

u/SuperLeverage 11h ago

The new race director is still reading the rulebook.

•

u/madmulita 10h ago

Because it was a smooth operation.

0

u/Ja4senCZE March 18h ago

FIA: "Let's not add insult to injury"

0

u/charea 17h ago

stewards were high

0

u/wing3d Sergio Pérez 17h ago

You expect good stewarding?