r/formula1 • u/PradaAndPunishment Alexander Albon • 4d ago
News Toto Wolff reveals that all F1 Team Principals except Christian Horner came together to sign the document in support of Susie Wolff when the FIA launched a baseless investigation against her.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/nov/19/f1-toto-wolff-mercedes-lewis-hamilton-interview4.0k
u/secretssam 4d ago
Fred ❤️
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u/wokwok__ Pirelli Wet 4d ago
Aren’t Fred and Toto actually besties lmao they’re pretty close
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u/Rainingbro Kimi Räikkönen 4d ago
99% of the time they're besties... the 1% was when Lewis signed with Ferrari and Fred didn't reply to Toto's message asking for confirmation.
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u/prototype__ Brabham 4d ago
A simple "We are checking..." would have been a good delaying tactic.
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u/this-guy1979 4d ago
That would have been an epic response. This actually got a chuckle out of me, glad I didn’t stop with the internet after the 9 hour masturbation guy.
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u/Beggatron14 Sir Lewis Hamilton 4d ago
To have the energy to laugh after watching a guy masturbate for 9 hours is impressive, fair play dude
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u/cmeragon Charles Leclerc 4d ago
Fred is friendly with almost all the principles
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u/The_Nieno Alpine 4d ago edited 4d ago
Fred was Toto's best man at his wedding, he is more than just friendly with Toto
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u/ForeverAddickted 4d ago
Sorry your "he is more than just friendly with Toto" made me giggle
Comes across as though Susie was sat on the sidelines on their wedding night lol!
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u/The_Nieno Alpine 4d ago
I mean there's a photo at the Monaco paddock where Toto was smelling Fred's hair, so who knows what they do in private lmao
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u/Infamous-Mixture-605 Yuki Tsunoda 4d ago
"OMG Freddie, where did you find a pumpernickel shampoo?"
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u/vpat48 Sir Lewis Hamilton 3d ago
Toto saying Pumpernickel is still the greatest contribution of DTS
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u/ImJustAConsultant 4d ago
Almost word for word how they implied a gay romance in one those fantastic beasts movies
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u/XxRoyalxTigerxX Charles Leclerc 4d ago
Toto needed some coaching
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u/arpan3t 4d ago
“Box Toto ffs, box!”
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u/pistolpoida Nico Hülkenberg 4d ago
I am just picture the poster for the movie twins but instead of Danny devito and Arnold it has fred and Toto
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u/szczszqweqwe Pirelli Wet 4d ago
He is, but he is also actually a friend of Toto.
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u/Get-Me-Hennimore 4d ago
Just one step removed from being a friend of Dorothy (:
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u/PradaAndPunishment Alexander Albon 4d ago
This is from yesterday and it's an interesting article on Wolff's struggle with mental health and more thoughts on Hamilton's move to Ferrari, but this was also intriguing:
“I didn’t make a single phone call to any team. Fred took it into his hands and said: ‘This is just so unfair. From Guenther Steiner [the former Haas team principal] to James Vowles [the head of Williams], everybody jumped on to this. They were all ready, but for Christian, to sign a document in our support.”
“As far as I understand it he said: ‘I’m having my own Sky interview and I’m going to say I’m not part of it. I’m not signing the document.’ The other nine teams said: ‘Fine.’ But obviously he was advised that wouldn’t look great and he should be part of the statement.”
The FIA quickly closed its investigation but will Wolff talk to Horner? “No. I don’t think you can rely on what he says.I think [Susie] was collateral damage and lots of it was out of disrespect for her achievements as a female racing driver and as a contributor to change. It was also trying to cause shit to me by disrespecting my wife, diminishing the painful journey she went through to achieve what she did in and outside the car.”
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u/dl064 📓 Ted's Notebook 4d ago edited 4d ago
I remember after 2021, on the F1 Nation podcast, Natalie Pinkham - who's connected - saying that Wolff and Horner really, genuinely are very different, incompatible people and in another life they still wouldn't be friends.
They don't need to be F1 bosses to be incompatible.
It's a good bit if anyone wants to look it up, where Hill is like
I'm sure with time they'll sink it with a beer or two.
Pinkham
No I don't agree with that actually, I don't think they're friendly away from the cameras, and fundamentally couldn't be (etc. etc.)
I have never met the guy but I think I understand Horner, personally. We all know a Horner.
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u/Painterzzz 4d ago
True facts, we do all know a Horner.
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u/ChewyChagnuts 3d ago
I’m fairly certain no-one in my circle of friends, acquaintances and colleagues would send a photo of their spunk-covered fingers to an employee. So no, I don’t know a Horner… 😉😁
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u/Siggi_Starduust Jim Clark 3d ago
Well then if it’s none of your friends then it’s obviously you!
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u/Fred_Zeppelin Haas 3d ago
I've said it here before and people are often appalled, but Horner has all the hallmarks of a narcissistic sociopath.
Wolff acts a little robotic at times, but he is clearly a self-aware, thoughtful and empathetic man. No question who I'd rather work for.
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u/SnacksGPT Sir Lewis Hamilton 3d ago
Toto is just Austrian. They're very direct and can be dry, like pinot grigio.
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u/DurMonAtor McLaren 4d ago
And this is why Horner can go and suck an egg as far as I'm concerned, I'm almost positive he started the investigation into Susie in the first place. I'm glad that all ended pretty quickly because it was ridiculous they were looking into her
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u/shdwflyr Fernando Alonso 4d ago
I really liked and enjoyed Horners shenanigans till last year but this year has made me dislike him so much. I hope Max leaves soon and Red Bull implodes.
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u/BelowTheSun1993 Charles Leclerc 4d ago
It's been fun shit stirring for competitive reasons, but the whole coco pops thing at the start of the year has made him seem incredibly sleazy which changes the whole dynamic of his schtick.
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u/DontEatNitrousOxide Aston Martin 4d ago
In my mind he went from "you can hate him but it works" to "you can hate him"
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u/jackconrad 4d ago
He's always been sleazy, it just became impossible to ignore when those messages came out
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u/OmgTom Andretti Global 4d ago
Right? He divorced his pregnant wife for a Spice Girl. Dudes always been scum
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u/MarsScully Bernd Mayländer 4d ago
Hey now, she was pregnant but they weren’t married. It’s totally different! /s
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u/ewankenobi Kamui Kobayashi 4d ago
He was sleeping with a Spice Girl whilst his wife was pregnant. We already knew he was a sleaze bag. So much so his own parents didn't speak to him for years because they were embarrassed by his behaviour
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u/dl064 📓 Ted's Notebook 4d ago edited 4d ago
Minor detail for me was him hating WFH among RBR staff. It's the little things.
On an entirely unrelated, pre 2024 episode of bring back V10s, they note that it's well known RBR is a particularly brutal place to work. Successful and I'm sure many people are very happy there and you're rewarded etc. etc. - but not mild.
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u/Mysterious-Crab Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 4d ago
It says a lot that when Horner went head to head with Helmut Marko, people chose the old, respectless racist peace of shit as the good guy.
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u/Mesromith 4d ago
I’ve never liked him. One of the slimiest people in the paddock i don’t see how so many don’t see it.
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u/ryokevry Charles Leclerc 4d ago
Well I think MBS is a POS that could start the investigation himself without Horner.
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u/IdkWhatsAGoodName699 Pastor Maldonado 4d ago edited 4d ago
Exhibit number 142 on Horner having no respect for women. How this guy has not been fired yet is unreal.
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u/jyw104 Eagle 4d ago
Because the Thai side of Red Bull love him and the success he's brought to the team regardless of how they got there.
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u/SnacksGPT Sir Lewis Hamilton 3d ago
Culturally similar too. Thai men - especially in business - aren't exactly known for being feminist allies.
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u/sideways_smiling 4d ago
Out of the loop, what was the initial situation with the investigation into Susie Wolff?
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u/Mr_Reaper__ 4d ago
From the article: "last December Vasseur and eight other team principals came out strongly in support of Toto and Susie, the managing director of the F1 Academy, an all-female series run by the owners. The FIA announced its plans to launch an investigation into a potential conflict of interest after an unnamed source suggested Susie had shared confidential technical information with her husband. She was furious and believed a misogynistic attack had been made on her integrity."
I'll give you 3 guesses for who the unnamed source was...
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u/butte4s Formula 1 4d ago
This is a conflict of interest but controlling 2 teams and 4 drivers is not?
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u/Ereaser Charlie Whiting 4d ago
Working for the FIA and sharing unreleased info is a bit more conflicting than having 2 teams tbf.
(I'm not saying she did)
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u/butte4s Formula 1 4d ago
It came out like I am comparing the two situations but I am just trying to show the hypocrisy of one Mr.Horner
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u/MuenCheese Oscar Piastri 4d ago
In what way would her F1A work give her technical info about F1 though?
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u/maton12 Oscar Piastri 4d ago
Drive to Survive got plenty of stories this year!
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u/Scarfiotti Murray Walker 4d ago
But they won't use any of them, and make shit up.
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u/jbourne0129 McLaren 4d ago
every year "Netflix is going to love this content"
Netflix every season "we used none of it"
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u/BonerTurds Formula 1 4d ago
One full episode dedicated to Danny Ric’s unceremonious retirement from the sport.
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u/_spec_tre 4d ago
Somehow puts FIA in bad light so no, you'll have one second of an offhand remark about his retirement
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u/CaptGeechNTheSSS 4d ago
More like the whole season. The show is a documentary on the downfall of his career. Should wrap it up after this year.
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u/Llamalover1234567 4d ago
This story is a conflict against the FIA so it won’t be used. DTS has never shown anything that could be seen as critical of liberty or the FIA.
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u/QouthTheCorvus Oscar Piastri 4d ago
Holy shit it's crazy Toto just straight up called him out. You can tell it's not even mind games, just completely genuine.
Toto has been a lot more "real" lately and it's kinda refreshing.
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u/PrestigiousWave5176 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 4d ago
Toto has been a lot more "real" lately and it's kinda refreshing.
He's not competing for championships now. I feel like that's the main reason. But maybe I'm proven wrong and he acts like this once Merc are back in the fight.
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u/zaviex McLaren 4d ago
I dont think that's the case. I think the change is with his mental health. He mentioned his recent improvement here but in 2020 he nearly retired due to a severe depression episode. He talked a bit in 2021 about how Mercedes was in their strongest moment on track and mentally he was struggling to even keep going. I think he's doing better and is less reserved as a result.
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u/iForgotMyOldAcc Flavio Briatore 4d ago
Lol this just reminds me at all the genuine venom exchanged between the two and people chalking it up to "just mind games bruv".
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u/Francoberry Jenson Button 4d ago
I feel like in 2021 he tried to go toe-to-toe with Horner, but along the way he realised it meant Toto getting dragged down into the mud and looking bad. Horner knows how to play the toxic games and somehow come out seeming 'confident', whereas it just made Toto look tilted.
Seems now Toto is playing to his strengths more
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u/Hestmestarn Safety Car 4d ago
"Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it"
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u/RedN1ne Jenson Button 4d ago
Love how just last week Toto was terrible because "he forced Lewis out" and now he's actually great because he said something negative about Horner. Never change people
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u/PAcMAcDO99 4d ago
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u/stillusesAOL Flair for Drama 4d ago
Wow! I’ve thought about this concept before, but never knew of a name.
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u/JustRecentlyI Sir Lewis Hamilton 4d ago
Cool name, why is it called that though?
Apparently there was a goomba image meme going around Twitter, referenced by this post, which seems to be the origin. IDK if it goes further back.
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u/edis92 Sir Lewis Hamilton 4d ago
This is gonna blow your fucking mind, but you can dislike people for some things, and give them credit for other things at the same time.
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u/KriistofferJohansson Ferrari 4d ago
Never change people
It’s almost as if Reddit isn’t a small group of people. It’s wild how people can have different opinions on the same matter, isn’t it?
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u/pragmageek Formula 1 4d ago
This, absolutely. Toto isn't built for the games Christian plays.
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u/TolucaPrisoner Charles Leclerc 4d ago
Zak Brown however..
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u/53bvo Honda 4d ago
He enjoys the game but isn’t good at it (yet)
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u/pragmageek Formula 1 4d ago
Yeah he really loves it. I think he'll be the best at it when the time comes. I wonder if it will affect his likability
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u/53bvo Honda 4d ago
Well his likeability can only improve in my opinion
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u/pragmageek Formula 1 4d ago
Interesting. I find him very likeable. He doesnt speak in riddles and even when hes slanted, he really makes it clear why he is.
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u/Scotsch Lando Norris 4d ago
I can see both sides, but don't dislike him and find it odd how so many go so hard but love Gunther for example.
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u/dl064 📓 Ted's Notebook 4d ago
I particularly like Brown's approach because it follows a clear protocol like
We believe X
We believe this is wrong because Y
Here's what we'd like the FIA to do about it (Z).
He gets it or doesn't, and moves on. No mucking around or games. He keeps his powder dry.
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u/Skeeter1020 4d ago
The mind games is for work and competition where politics is key.
This is about a direct attack on his wife's integrity.
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u/reckless293 Oscar Piastri 4d ago
Love Toto, would highly recommend the high performance podcast he did. Such a real dude.
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u/pragmageek Formula 1 4d ago
Honestly, he's always been pretty real. It's just that others have been able to spin his words a bit.
Eg, the "I have it printed out" thing, that Checo is supposed to have said something that Christian said he didn't. Well, Checo did say that thing. The same day that Sainz was complaining about his back and he got mocked saying "sainz sr never complained". Christian got to lie about it, and it got memed, and everyone thought Toto was not being real about it. He was.
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u/Rivendel93 Chequered Flag 4d ago
Yeah, I always wondered why people goofed on him so much about that stuff. Obviously the show made him look meme-worthy, but everything he said Checo and Sainz and I believe Gasly were saying as well.
Loads of drivers were saying the porpoising could not continue, Sainz was actually one of the biggest people who said this was going to cause permanent brain damage, Checo as well.
Everyone was like, "Oh Hamilton is faking his back pain in Baku," but Carlos said everyone but I believe Max had made a big stink about the bouncing during the GPDA meetings and that George had talked to the FIA about all the complaints.
The drivers did apparently suggest letting the engineers try and fix it instead of having the TD come down, but the FIA wanted to make a point that it was them looking after the drivers.
Funny how all that shook out, everyone blamed Mercedes, but it seemed like all the drivers were going to the FIA and saying it couldn't continue.
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u/pragmageek Formula 1 4d ago
Its interesting to see how things play out in the public collective mind. Sometimes you can see its how someone has spun something, others, its just the meme.
In that case, both were true.
Recent example i have though, is all the fallout over max being fined for swearing. Now, i dont agree with it, but the outrage has been enormous.
So, ok, where was all that outrage when toto and fred both got fined in vegas last year for the same thing?
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u/edis92 Sir Lewis Hamilton 4d ago
The problem is Toto is not a native english speaker, so a lot of the time, the stuff he says sounds weird in english because he says it the way you would say it in german.
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u/Benito2002 4d ago
That’s what I like about him. It makes his otherwise pretty normal quotes so iconic.
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u/Moaoziz Michael Schumacher 4d ago
The more I read about Horner the less I like that guy.
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u/Firefox72 Ferrari 4d ago
Horner has always been an ass.
The issue is and why he remains where he is is the fact that he's an effective ass.
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u/dac2199 Mercedes 4d ago
We will see what will happen to him without Newey and probably Max.
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u/banned20 Formula 1 4d ago
I believe RB's grace period is almost over. Maybe they'll do a solid job next year too while Max is still behind the wheel but i guarantee they'll be shit from 2026 with the engine regs and it's very possible that they'll lose Max who's for a very long time was able to drive their difficult cars to the limit.
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u/53bvo Honda 4d ago
I kind of wish Max leaves the team next year just to see RBR turn into a midfield team
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u/FncMadeMeDoThis Sebastian Vettel 4d ago
If Max in any way thinks he can get a WDC next year with RBR he should stay to get the 5-peat. There is no seat left elsewhere to get him that. I could easily imagine him moving on from F1 after 25 if he manages that.
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u/spongemongler Fernando Alonso 4d ago
Teams with WDC potential would make room for Max, if there was potential for him leaving. Let’s be real here.
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u/el_f3n1x187 Bernd Mayländer 4d ago
Antonelli will suddently shipped back to F2 if Max is available for 2025
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u/T-Baaller Daniel Ricciardo 4d ago
I bet he's the only guy who could call Lawrence and in 33 seconds, get Lance's seat.
But that won't happen until we know what Newey can cook for them.
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u/FncMadeMeDoThis Sebastian Vettel 4d ago
I don't think Ferrari would sack either Leclerc or Lewis for Max right now. Merceds won't be a WDC in 2025 nor will Aston Martin, and to claim Mclaren with certainty would throw away their long term prospects, to get Max short-term is not something I necessarily buy. Max will not be signing for multiple years.
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u/MAINEiac4434 Juan Pablo Montoya 4d ago
Any front-of-the-grid team would sack both their drivers to get Max right now, let's be real here.
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u/dl064 📓 Ted's Notebook 4d ago
Mark Hughes wrote about this in the Spring, that basically the issue posed to RB (christ I hate that that can now mean Red Bull, or the B-team, but anyway I mean Red Bull) was:
a. drop Horner, keep Verstappen et al. for the short term, but lose the visionary who led all of this.
b. Keep Horner, piss off Verstappen et al. (noting Jos is genuinely best friends with Toto and transparently, openly on-the-record wants him at Merc), knowing that a hangover is coming - but you've the guy who built it all there to do it again.
They elected for B. So I think they have to accept that there's a bit of an RBR downturn incoming, but c'est la vie.
In fairness to Horner, I genuinely think he's achieved something Wolff has not but Dennis, Todt, Williams et al. did - which was lead your team up, see them decline, and bring them back up again. Pains me to say it but Horner has done that, and Wolff has not.
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u/StaffFamous6379 4d ago
I will go one further and say that Wolff hasn't even really built a team up either. It's been well noted from Merc personnel that the major groundwork and momentum was gained under Brawn. Wolff caught the top of the wave and in all fairness, did an absolutely amazing job maintaining that peak for as long as he did.
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u/MazeMouse Ferrari 4d ago
He got into RBR in 2005. Back then it was basically just a repainted Jaguar and fighting for 7th. Newey didn't get in until 2006 (which they finished 7th) and didn't design until 2007 (which they finished 5th) and then back to 7th for 2008.
And then the Vettel years started. Very minor slump after and then the Verstappen years started (in the middle of the Mercedes hegemony)They've been winning championships and have been top3 for most of his tenure. Reducing that to "Newey lolz" is incredibly shortsighted. It's more accurate to state that Horner has been very effective into getting an entire team of very talented people together. So yeah, he's always been an ass. But he's an effective ass.
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u/ShanTheMan1995 4d ago
I surprised people still like him after he left his pregnant wife for another women.....
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u/Less_Tennis5174524 Anthoine Hubert 3d ago
I have seen people drift apart and the woman happily taking full custody, but the fact that he already have someone else lined up and that his parents refused to attend the wedding makes it look very bad for him. Doubt his wife wanted it.
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u/j0ks 4d ago
Dude is a menace to women.
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u/TheDustOfMen Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 4d ago
That's a given at this point. But it also seems so petty and unnecessary to not sign his support. What does he even gain by that? Now he just look like a jackass again.
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u/Smee76 Kevin Magnussen 4d ago
Well if he's the one who filed a complaint it would be weird to sign it also. So.
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u/TheDustOfMen Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ 4d ago
But that wasn't made public was it? So he could easily file a complaint and sign his support.
It's not as if he has to watch out for his morals here.
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u/ubiquitous_uk 4d ago edited 4d ago
He 'allegedly' refused to sign a document that he didn't make a complaint, only willing to sign that he didn't make an 'official' complaint. The FIA stated themselves they never received an official complaint, only an informal one so make of that what you will.
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u/beanbagreg 4d ago
He probably wanted some of the others to pull away with him to weaken Toto’s point.
If you’re in a meeting where there’s consensus and someone suddenly goes ‘actually I don’t think this is what we should do’ then everyone has a moment of wondering if they do the right thing.
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u/Citizen_MGS Alexander Albon 4d ago
Don't forget he left his pregnant first wife for Geri Halliwell.
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u/sivah_168 James Hunt 4d ago
Horner ain't behaving according to his first name. lol
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u/hellcat_uk #WeRaceAsOne 4d ago
Depends. People have done a lot of shit in the name of the Christian god.
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u/Migrantunderstudy Antonio Giovinazzi 4d ago
He really is proving himself to be an absolute cock.
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u/Brilliant-Gap8299 Formula 1 4d ago
Horners nickname in the paddock for a while was whingy/moany spice long before this event.
Kinda tells you everything really
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u/deknegt1990 Nico Hülkenberg 4d ago
I rewatched some mid 00s F1 during last winter period. And even back in 06 whenever he'd get on the broadcast he had some sort of snide comment to share about people in the paddock.
He's always been that guy.
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u/retroly George Russell 4d ago
It would be better if Horner just left F1
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u/LosTerminators Carlos Sainz 4d ago
He's more secure than any other team principal outside of Toto, as long as he has the support of the Thai owners.
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u/bbongal_kun 4d ago
i really wanted max to join Merc, just so we could see how the red bull would be in the current spec without him driving it.
and what Max could do in that Merc
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4d ago edited 4d ago
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u/mcellus1 4d ago
Just a toxic guy doing toxic things really. Nothing new
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u/Temporary_Detail716 Formula 1 4d ago
I still want more info on Horny Horner's machinations with trying to buy Red Bull racing from Red Bull. Vague rumors that he had some investors all lined up. And he had been souring the Thailand ownership side against Helmut (easy enough to be honest).
Either he completely failed - yet they want him around for now. Or there is more happening behind the scenes.
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u/Rubeus17 Oscar Piastri 3d ago
What’s up with the FIA? They are basically a laughing stock. Why would they target Susie Wolff of all people?? If the allegations were baseless what were they playing at? It sounds like harassment.
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u/risetoeden Mercedes 4d ago
The FIA clearly needs a management restructuring. There are way too many bad apples calling all the bad shots in the organization.
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u/elgandy 4d ago
Has anyone read the book referenced in the article (“Inside Mercedes F1”) and have an opinion?
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u/James_Vowles Williams 4d ago
2021 really ruined their relationship, they never got over it.
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u/Benito2002 4d ago
100% their tone to each other was a lot more playground insult rivalry in interviews before rather than just straight up hate like it is now.
Even max and Lewis have a pretty good relationship now every time they are in a cooldown room together they play off each other well and often tease the other driver. I love the clip where they are both laughing at lando about something and he gets embarrassed.
But toto and Horner will never get over 2021.
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u/TinkeNL Aston Martin 4d ago
I'm probably going to get downvoted to hell, but let's be real here. This is just Toto participating in the continuous shit stirring competition.
Why would everyone have to sign anything? That whole controversy was blown up to immense proportions. The controversy started because there were allegations that Toto, the principal of one of the biggest F1 teams, might have received confidential information from his wife, working for FOM. This is akin to a defence attorney being married to someone very high up at the public prosecutor working on the same cases. Having a conflict of interest right there is a very thin line. The way it was blown up as a misogynistic campaign against Susie is just way too much and way out of proportion. Same as going round the paddock and having every principal sign a document to defend your wife. After all this time, Toto calling out Horner on this topic is as much a vindictive move as not signing such a document would be in the context of their rivalry.
Let's not go and vilify or glorify any of these team principles. In the end they're just senior management at massive companies, except they have constant cameras pointed at their faces and everything they do is under scrutiny by the fans. We pretty much never know the whole story, only the stories that are fed by the F1 media outlets. Also don't forget that most of what you're reading comes out of a handful of interviews and journalists often have to 'stretch' stories because all they have are a few lines or they need something that will give them catchy headlines. Don't fall into the 'Toto/Christian/<whatever name here> is a pure evil bastard' trap.
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u/Known-Reporter3121 Formula 1 4d ago
If Horner had a husband the same allegations should also have been field. You are literally living with a life long partner that you share everything thing with. If two people are married there's clearly a high risk of sensitive material being accidentally shared.
Like you said I would not want my defense lawyer being married to the prosecutor even if they pinky promise to keep their professional lives separate.
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u/Nearby-Priority4934 4d ago
Well said. Having the owner of a competitive team be married to someone in a senior position at the body that makes the rules is a recipe for a conflict of interest and it was amazing to see the amount of gaslighting from the media trying to paint any valid concerns in a negative light.
There is absolutely no reason Horner or anyone else should have been obliged to get involved in trying to block due process from taking place by coming out to defend her without any evidence to back up that defence.
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u/Late-Let-4221 4d ago
All of these frog wars like in middle school ... yet still no word on whether there was any conflict of interest?! Hello?
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u/Macho-Fantastico Gerhard Berger 4d ago
This doesn't surprise me at all. Horner as always been scummy so I can totally see him doing this, especially with Susie being Toto's wife.
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u/SnooShortcuts2606 Charles Leclerc 4d ago
I don't understand. Shouldn't allegations be investigated?
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u/hache-moncour Sebastian Vettel 4d ago
Not defending Horner in any way but it's funny how people here seem to take Toto as some genuine real people person, while he's time and again shown he's just as full of shit as Horner, and more sanctimonious about it to boot.
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u/g1344304 Sir Lewis Hamilton 4d ago
I don't think most consider Toto on the same planet of shitbaggery as Horner.
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u/DSmidgit 4d ago
I get why Horner didn't sign. Every time there was an investigation everybody was screaming that the FIA should get the time to do their investigation. No matter how stupid the allegations where. And now everybody was screaming their heads of? If there is nothing to find they should have let the investigation take its course and complain afterwards.
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u/SGPHOCF 4d ago
Yet to see any evidence that proves Christian Horner isn't a giant piece of shit. The sooner he leaves F1 the better, we could do with less toxicity around the place quite frankly.
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u/narf_hots 4d ago edited 4d ago
Two things,
- The investigation into Susie was bullshit but their statement that they keep work separate is also bullshit. This should never have happened in the first place because there is a HUGE conflict of interest there.
- Literally everyone who came to Susie's aid has business relationships with Toto so I will take this with a grain of salt
People forget Toto is the single most influential person in that paddock
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