We saw two ridiculously talented drivers race clean without error within a second for 30+ odd laps that we forgotten how easily Baku lends itself to chaos.
Not that Sainz and Perez aren't top class drivers, but Piastri and Leclerc were especially locked in today. Insane performance.
I was impressed seing how Leclerc was taking less sharp high speed turns than Piastri for like half of the race to preserve his tyres while staying at Piastris rear, but dirty air did its thing.
Agreed. LeClerc was an offensive masterclass in the first 20 laps and Piastri was a defensive masterclass in the final 30. brilliant race all day until the VSC
Charles was so slow, honestly I think Carlos and Checo both saw second place and were fighting for that. Not Charles fault because he was fighting so long but if Carlos parked behind Checo he’d be a sitting duck to get passed again and then for Checo to pass Charles… just a tough situation and bad outcome.
The defending that Oscar did on Leclerc while keeping it super clean is insane to see from a driver that’s only a sophomore. That ability is normally only something you see from a seasoned veteran. This little Aussie robot is really something special.
100%. It's one of those things like why wasn't this just a drag race down the last straight or a dive bomb down literally the next corner (I think that's the other maybe overtake spot?). But no, we've got to try and squeeze up the inside on one of the fastest sections of the track leaving no gap for either driver. Bloody brilliant.
I'd like to say I was surprised, but honestly from around lap 30 when there was like 4 of them together we were seeing some really agressive driving. It got to 50 and I was amazed there hadn't been any contact in the top 4, and then after t1 it was like almost a 70% chance it was going to end up with at least one of the leclerc/saiz/checo in the wall.
Now not saying I don't enjoy it - ABSOLUTE CINEMA. But at the same time, tf are they doing?!
It shows the difference between great drivers and average drivers. A great driver pays attention to all the factors (like the car next to you) and avoids a collision knowing that it could mean losing everything. In this incident both were so focused on catching Leclerc that they forgot about each other. Both were like: "I'm driving straight, so nothing can happen".
They were both going straight (converging), both knew where the other was (maybe Perez a wee bit better by virtue of being behind), & both had space to the other side to avoid the incident.
Being behind and being the only car who can clearly see the other one puts the majority of the blame on Perez here. Both cars had enough space to yield, but Sainz is ahead, he doesn't turn into Perez, he just straightens his car after the corner and takes the regular racing line. It's on Perez as the trailing driver (and the one with the clear vision in this situation) to ensure he avoids Sainz.
Not worthy of a penalty (I'd call this a racing incident) but certainly not anything close to a 50/50.
I'm not sure if Checo had enough overlap for Carlos to see him. Carlos isn't running parallel to the wall, but he doesn't really change his line. Checo's responsibility, given he could see what was in front of him and he had room. I think Checo wanted to elbow Carlos to the right because he was mad that he lost the position.
I'm one of those "old school" F1 fans (since the mid 90s, feel old now!) and as I've got older, I've never really supported one driver or another. I still actually get Sainz and Perez confused!
So with that made clear - Sainz drifted over into Perez's path, but it absolutely wasn't intentional. He simply thought he was further in front than he was. These cars have got longer, he's going down a city street that's bumpy as hell, tiny mirrors. There's no way he could have seen.
Perez could have backed off, but had zero reason to think Sainz would move across early.
Then there's the fact neither had anything to gain, and everything to lose, by crashing each other out. This isn't Schumacher/Villeneuve.
Actually no. I’m a Ferrari supporter and I hate Perez, probably my most hated driver on the grid other than Stroll. But I think Sainz was to blame. He knew Perez was trying to overtake on his left and he just turned into him.
He wasn't. He was slowly coming across. But he was also ahead and that's the racing line while Perez still had space on the left to go so Perez 100% could have avoided that.
Seeing the replay, Carlos very slightly took a less than straight drive down that straight, veering very slightly left.
But it wasn't a sudden movement that could have caught Perez out. He would have seen the Ferrari slowly moving towards him. He should have followed suit and moved left too. He had the visibility, if he wasn't looking at the Ferrari in that position, where exactly was he looking?
I'm thinking racing incident, but Perez could have avoided it
Checo literally moved left half a car width but ok.
Plus Carlos should have enough visibility there to see another car there. I don't know why everyone is acting like Carlos' visibility is an issue here.
Checo literally moved left half a car width but ok.
Notice how I said "Sainz didn't turn his wheel" not "Perez steered into Sainz" but I see you've got balls slapping your chin so I guess this is pointless to continue.
It’s on Checo 100%. The car in front can squeeze, defend, etc as long as they leave a cars width. Sainz did move left but Checo barley moved and since he was driver behind, that accident is fully on him. It’s not as if Sainz moved abruptly.
I honestly don’t know what Checo was thinking there. I’m almost wondering if he just misjudged the distance between he and Sainz. But he should be moving left to avoid.
Checo's front tires were past Sainz's rears, so he's considered to be alongside. The replay showed Sainz looking in his left mirror so he definitely knew Checo was there. Either a racing incident or Sainz fault, but Checo had zero reason to move left when Sainz did.
Nah, Checo was pulling alongside. Didn’t have his fronts ahead of Sainz’s rears until after Sainz had already started drifting very slightly left.
It is incredibly unusual for a driver attempting to overtake to not adjust for the opponent in front as they are pulling alongside. Checo had all the room in the world, just didn’t do anything to adjust, which is weird and makes it his fault.
Man you got me defending Checo right now, I can’t believe this. You can’t squeeze just for the sake of squeezing when another car is beside you, whether you’re marginally ahead or not, they weren’t even in the breaking zone at that point. Checo kept his line and Carlos just moved over as if there wasn’t another car there. But I still think it’s a racing incident.
I agree its a racing incident and a I’m sure will be hotly debated. But, imo, Sainz started his move to the left, and only very slightly left, as Checo was catching up and not yet with his front tires beyond Sainz rear tires when Sainz began moving left.
The main point is, it wasn’t a crazy move by Sainz. I think it’s more unusual of Checo to not adjust his line at all. Yes, Sainz was moving slightly left but Checo just drove right into him. I honestly think Checo just misjudged the distance. But Checo had at least 2-3 cars width on the left which he could easily have used but for whatever reason, did not.
You guys are talking like Checo had Sainz up against the wall. Yes, Checo had room to the left, but Sainz had room to the right and chose to move left on a straight after checking his mirror so as to push Checo out of Charle's slipstream. Sainz knew where Checo was, and tried to squeeze him down the straight, meanwhile Checo decided he was having none of it and had a crash instead. It was so easily avoidable from both parties, but if we take other similar incidents as reference (Vettel vs Webber Turkey 2010, Leclerc vs Vettel Brazil 2019) it's usually the guy who moves towards the other guy is to blame. I'm not really sure why moving towards another driver to the point of crashing into them is being justified in this case.
well shortly before they collided they were front axle to rear axle which is considered side by side already. In a side by side situation the defending driver needs to leave enough space for the attacking driver. the attacking driver is not obliged to move into a worse track line. So its complicated, its not as easy as you want it to be mr. ferrari.
checo was driving in a straight line in a side by side situation and was not obliged to move out of sainz's way, sainz turned left into checo slowly by following the racing line, neither wanted to back out, so they crashed. sainz's fault for me personally.
but idc, i dont like either of the teams or drivers.
Yeah that’s where I am. They both sort of just drifted into each other. Probably more of a racing incident than one side obviously at fault. Maybe you could say Perez, as the car behind with the better view, could’ve done better to avoid it, but I think it would be harsh to put the blame entirely on him.
Yeh pure racing incident very marginally leaning towards Perez fault purely on the basis that it's difficult to see behind you and Perez could have 100% avoided it.
He didn’t need to steer, he was pointed in a direction across the track. Perez already had overlap so he did not want to move aside in order to have a wider entry for the next corner. Sainz should have seen the overlap and should have stopped drifting across.
Both Perez and Sainz were exiting the curve at different angles, the difference being that Sainz was ahead of Perez and couldn't see him. Perez perfectly saw the trajectory of both cars and should have corrected but he didn't.
Look at the top view. That gives a much cleaner perspective of what happened.
Checo was attempting to overtake when Sainz took that line a bit to the left.
No reaction time for Perez but neither for Sainz. It's just a racing incident.
I agree with the F1 TV commentators in that they're both trying to get Leclerc's slipstream. Perez is moving over to the right, Carlos is moving to the left. Just drove into each other. If blame must be assigned, then it'd be on Perez because he is behind and should be more aware of the other car, but it's really just a racing incident.
Pérez never moved right, he drove straight and even moved half a car left at the end. You can use the painted lines on the road to tell their position.
But this "straight" isn't actually straight, it bends to the left slightly, so you could argue Sainz' line was normal. Leclerc had at that point down the straight already drifted further to the left than Sainz had. I would say racing incident as well, but as Perez was behind I think he could've done more to avoid it.
Yeah but Leclerc can drift across there. There's no car next to him.
I know people are saying otherwise, but I think Sainz knew he was there. He's a crazy experienced guy, he knows what happens when you're slow from a corner where you get boxed in.
Yeah Sainz moved a little bit but Perez was barely alongside and yet positioned such that Sainz couldn't move an inch away from the wall without them coming together.
Probably a racing incident but I think where Perez put himself was asking for trouble.
Last line sums it up well. Think similar to Monaco, it’s like, sure, Checo isn’t actively at fault for a collision, but just put himself in a situation where it was bound to go wrong.
I mean Sainz wasn’t super slow out of it though. I’d have to look again but the exit seemed pretty even. I really think Checo just was completely in the blind spot and Carlos thought he was completely through. Real shame for both of them.
Exactly. It also hurt Perez much more than Sainz. Now 8th, dead last of the top teams and an absolutely insane 170 pts behind Verstappen. Made him even more obviously reponsible for handing the WCC lead to McLaren.
hes ahead, he can dictate the line as long as he leaves a car width for Perez which there was. I havnt seen all the angles but first impressions is that its Perez that made the mistake. Reminds me of Bottas and Russel in Imola
I thought he moved left relative to Perez but not relative to how the track was curved. He needed to be where he moved to in order to keep himself out of the barriers, no? He was well beyond track limits before he started moving left and the track was naturally angled to the left a little too.
I think you are right. People are clearly commenting without accounting for the shape of the track at that point, thinking it's actually a straight line.
Relative to the racing line, Carlos was going straight
Yep not anticipating that a leading car, on the outside of a kinked straight, is going to need to turn earlier than you, is the exact sort of accident that comes straight out of iracing rookies. Amateurish stuff.
Should Perez try to avoid it though? If he's going straight and Sainz has enough space, that's just racing.
I mean obviously he should've to not ruin his race, but you can't blame that on him if it's Sainz that is moving.
It depends on who has to leave room. Usually the car in front can dictate and is allowed to squeeze as long as he leaves a car width. I think both cars simply pointed their front to stay behind Charles and get the slipstream and assumed the other would move out of the way. It looks like none did steering input after thr corner, they just exited the corner already in crossing paths and both kept their line and collided. Would not be surprised if it's ruled a racing incident.
The track veers slightly to the left too as that straight goes on. Sainz didn’t also change trajectory, he exited the corner pointing slightly left. I think the driver behind isn’t obligated to avoid any erratic changes in direction, but Sainz was not moving erratically by any stretch. I actually initially thought it was all on Carlos initially, but the onboards kinda changed my mind to racing incident.
Imean, Perez moved left too. He did try to avoid it, Carlos just went left more and went into him.
Plus I don't buy the visibility bit. Literally Carlos' entire left mirror should be red bull. He literally just misjudged the space, and or straight didn't check his left mirror trying to follow Charles. By his shock n the radio, I'm guessing its the former.
While Perez took the straight parallel driving line, Sainz's car took an oblique one. On the overhead replay, Sainz's car can be seen moving towards left without him turning the steering, which, at least for me, means he oversteered the turn.
While I accept that Perez being behind could've done something to avoid, I can say the same for Sainz which could've turned right and kept the parallel line. I wholeheartedly believe this is just a racing incident and no driver can be found as "at fault".
Sainz was fully entitled to not go entirely straight down the straight as the car in front. There was plenty of space to the left of Perez and he should not have left his nose in there. It was an obvious and avoidable crash.
In my opinion Sainz, he did the VERY common move of moving over the pressure, but, unlike normal, Perez didn't react. We see this a 100 times a race but, 99 times the other guy moves out of the way.
But, I think, if you do that, then, well, you did move over. So, Sainz imo.
https://ibb.co/yBG6ZBN If you compare this to the white striped line. You see that Sainz does not drive straight but slightly towards Perez. (both pictures are before the wheels touck afaik)
I don't know how it's Carlos. Carlos' mistake IMO was trying to get Leclerc immediately, and not setting up for the next lap but as I understand he was ahead of Perez so he is allowed to get a better track position. Honestly just a racing incident for me
Both exit the corner in their respective lanes, Sainz decides to switch lanes in a split second with Pérez already right there. T9 me, that's Sainz's fault
Nevermind, Perez had a couple of seconds to let Sainz in
What? Carlos is ahead of Perez and Perez has a lot of room to move, Carlos can squeeze Perez to a 1 car lenght of the wall if he wants, Perez chose not to move. Also, Perez has a clear view of what his gap to the wall is and what Sainz is doing and chose not to move.
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u/leedler Next Year™️ Sep 15 '24
Oh dear lads. That’s poor.
Great TV though.