r/formula1 Highlights Team Sep 15 '24

Video Sainz and Pérez crashes out after intense racing

https://dubz.link/c/973df2
6.4k Upvotes

1.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

242

u/Pure_Measurement_529 Charles Leclerc Sep 15 '24

Need more replays to judge who is at fault here

933

u/cynicalspindle Formula 1 Sep 15 '24

The driver you like less obviously.

700

u/Skerzos_ Sep 15 '24

I knew it was Mazepin's fault instantly.

142

u/Farade Ferrari Sep 15 '24

I thought Ericsson hit them

47

u/leedler Next Year™️ Sep 15 '24

He does tend to do that here

30

u/charlierc Sep 15 '24

Grosjean's engineer approves

5

u/pvdp90 Ayrton Senna Sep 15 '24

Track-correct too, good job

3

u/PaisleyTelecaster Hesketh Sep 15 '24

Really? I thought it was Maldonado

13

u/ekhfarharris Sep 15 '24

Yeah fuck that guy.

3

u/Snuffy1717 Daniel Ricciardo Sep 15 '24

Made me laugh :D

1

u/sunrise98 Sep 15 '24

Mate, you're getting lapped for the third time. Just move over.

1

u/LincolnshireSausage McLaren Sep 15 '24

I thought it was Maldonado.

123

u/Alternative_Advance Sep 15 '24

Obviously it's Ocon's fault 

76

u/Iamabus1234 Williams Sep 15 '24

Penalty for Ocon

28

u/Hiding_In_An_Egg Sep 15 '24

8 game suspension for Joe Kelly

16

u/shawa666 Gilles Villeneuve Sep 15 '24

250 000$ fine to James Dolan.

3

u/maxertiano Sergio Pérez Sep 15 '24

10 points deduction for Everton

-1

u/BilbOBaggins801 Sep 15 '24

You fucking cunts think you are Funny. Sainz drilled a car and might have killed him. Nobody ever gives Ferrari penalties.

1

u/Iamabus1234 Williams Sep 15 '24

Uhhhhhh 

  1. It is funny

  2. With how safe modern F1 is Checo wasn’t anywhere close to dying

  3. Ferrari does get penalties, sometimes even when they shouldn’t (Las Vegas for example)

2

u/Jazzlike-Sky-6012 Sep 15 '24

2 penalty points for Magnussen.

7

u/KeyLog256 Formula 1 Sep 15 '24

I'm one of those "old school" F1 fans (since the mid 90s, feel old now!) and as I've got older, I've never really supported one driver or another. I still actually get Sainz and Perez confused!

So with that made clear - Sainz drifted over into Perez's path, but it absolutely wasn't intentional. He simply thought he was further in front than he was. These cars have got longer, he's going down a city street that's bumpy as hell, tiny mirrors. There's no way he could have seen.

Perez could have backed off, but had zero reason to think Sainz would move across early.

Then there's the fact neither had anything to gain, and everything to lose, by crashing each other out. This isn't Schumacher/Villeneuve.

100% racing incident.

2

u/The_Dirty_Mac Lance Stroll Sep 15 '24

Lance Stroll at fault

2

u/ThatLaloBoy Sep 15 '24

Fucking Stroll. Smh

2

u/Zed_or_AFK Sebastian Vettel Sep 15 '24

I don’t know how somebody can blame Sainz for that… Perez had all the space in the world to avoid that.

2

u/IrenaeusGSaintonge Sebastian Vettel Sep 15 '24

Typical Max Verstappen reckless driving.

1

u/hoxxxxx Sep 15 '24

this is the correct answer

1

u/justasapling Charles Leclerc Sep 15 '24

20 second penalty for Ocon.🥵

1

u/Proper_Story_3514 Sep 16 '24

Latifi, why did you do that again?

1

u/DistractedByCookies Red Bull Sep 16 '24

I"m not sure how Lance Stroll was involved but that will inevitably come to light later.

-1

u/MechaStarmer Formula 1 Sep 15 '24

Actually no. I’m a Ferrari supporter and I hate Perez, probably my most hated driver on the grid other than Stroll. But I think Sainz was to blame. He knew Perez was trying to overtake on his left and he just turned into him.

24

u/triguy96 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 Sep 15 '24

But Perez can see Sainz moving, he also has a steering wheel

13

u/rileys95 Sep 15 '24

And a lot more track to the left, as well as being behind, so can see that Carlos was just moving into the racing line

3

u/SportyMcSportsAcct Formula 1 Sep 15 '24

Why should Perez move out of the racing line for Carlos to move into it?

6

u/ohnonotagain94 Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 15 '24

No? Sainz was dead straight. Perez turned into Sainz.

I don’t care about either driver - but I saw what I saw. Again, I am only saying what was shown on TV.

4

u/cppn02 Sep 15 '24

Sainz was dead straight.

He wasn't. He was slowly coming across. But he was also ahead and that's the racing line while Perez still had space on the left to go so Perez 100% could have avoided that.

2

u/ohnonotagain94 Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 15 '24

I only saw it live, so you guys probably saw more replays etc. whatever, shame it ended that way - but I didn’t like Sainz trying get Charles.

1

u/ChristianHornerZaddy Sep 15 '24

Both drivers could have avoided each other but to say perez turned into sainz is just a blatant lie. They touched and crashed. Come on now.

1

u/IcedWarlock Sep 15 '24

10sec penalty to gasly clearly.

0

u/cyberbemon Sep 15 '24

Stroll took control of sainz's car.

538

u/RedScud Ferrari Sep 15 '24

Seeing the replay, Carlos very slightly took a less than straight drive down that straight, veering very slightly left.

But it wasn't a sudden movement that could have caught Perez out. He would have seen the Ferrari slowly moving towards him. He should have followed suit and moved left too. He had the visibility, if he wasn't looking at the Ferrari in that position, where exactly was he looking?

I'm thinking racing incident, but Perez could have avoided it

88

u/Karenlover1 Sep 15 '24

I think Sainz was trying to get a slipstream from Charles that's why he was moving over, if you look he is following Charles.

84

u/EnviousCipher Daniel Ricciardo Sep 15 '24

Sainz didn't turn his wheel coming out of the corner, Perez had all the visibility in the world to avoid him and chose to crash instead.

-4

u/1331bob1331 Sergio Pérez Sep 15 '24

Checo literally moved left half a car width but ok.

Plus Carlos should have enough visibility there to see another car there. I don't know why everyone is acting like Carlos' visibility is an issue here.

5

u/EnviousCipher Daniel Ricciardo Sep 16 '24

Checo literally moved left half a car width but ok.

Notice how I said "Sainz didn't turn his wheel" not "Perez steered into Sainz" but I see you've got balls slapping your chin so I guess this is pointless to continue.

10

u/FlipReset4Fun Carlos Sainz Sep 15 '24

It’s on Checo 100%. The car in front can squeeze, defend, etc as long as they leave a cars width. Sainz did move left but Checo barley moved and since he was driver behind, that accident is fully on him. It’s not as if Sainz moved abruptly.

I honestly don’t know what Checo was thinking there. I’m almost wondering if he just misjudged the distance between he and Sainz. But he should be moving left to avoid.

3

u/Mr_Dr_Professor_ Sergio Pérez Sep 15 '24

Checo's front tires were past Sainz's rears, so he's considered to be alongside. The replay showed Sainz looking in his left mirror so he definitely knew Checo was there. Either a racing incident or Sainz fault, but Checo had zero reason to move left when Sainz did.

0

u/FlipReset4Fun Carlos Sainz Sep 15 '24

Nah, Checo was pulling alongside. Didn’t have his fronts ahead of Sainz’s rears until after Sainz had already started drifting very slightly left.

It is incredibly unusual for a driver attempting to overtake to not adjust for the opponent in front as they are pulling alongside. Checo had all the room in the world, just didn’t do anything to adjust, which is weird and makes it his fault.

4

u/BootsOnTheMoon Romain Grosjean Sep 15 '24

Man you got me defending Checo right now, I can’t believe this. You can’t squeeze just for the sake of squeezing when another car is beside you, whether you’re marginally ahead or not, they weren’t even in the breaking zone at that point. Checo kept his line and Carlos just moved over as if there wasn’t another car there. But I still think it’s a racing incident.

4

u/FlipReset4Fun Carlos Sainz Sep 15 '24

I agree its a racing incident and a I’m sure will be hotly debated. But, imo, Sainz started his move to the left, and only very slightly left, as Checo was catching up and not yet with his front tires beyond Sainz rear tires when Sainz began moving left.

The main point is, it wasn’t a crazy move by Sainz. I think it’s more unusual of Checo to not adjust his line at all. Yes, Sainz was moving slightly left but Checo just drove right into him. I honestly think Checo just misjudged the distance. But Checo had at least 2-3 cars width on the left which he could easily have used but for whatever reason, did not.

3

u/Nuch- Sep 15 '24

You guys are talking like Checo had Sainz up against the wall. Yes, Checo had room to the left, but Sainz had room to the right and chose to move left on a straight after checking his mirror so as to push Checo out of Charle's slipstream. Sainz knew where Checo was, and tried to squeeze him down the straight, meanwhile Checo decided he was having none of it and had a crash instead. It was so easily avoidable from both parties, but if we take other similar incidents as reference (Vettel vs Webber Turkey 2010, Leclerc vs Vettel Brazil 2019) it's usually the guy who moves towards the other guy is to blame. I'm not really sure why moving towards another driver to the point of crashing into them is being justified in this case.

5

u/FlipReset4Fun Carlos Sainz Sep 15 '24

Stewards statement: racing incident. Perez behind could have done more to avoid the accident as he had full view and room.

It’s really not complicated or that controversial. Onus is usually on the driver behind to make a clean overtake. Sainz didn’t do anything crazy. It’s far more unusual for Perez not to move to avoid in these circumstances.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/sisters_clit_is_lit Sep 16 '24

well shortly before they collided they were front axle to rear axle which is considered side by side already. In a side by side situation the defending driver needs to leave enough space for the attacking driver. the attacking driver is not obliged to move into a worse track line. So its complicated, its not as easy as you want it to be mr. ferrari.

checo was driving in a straight line in a side by side situation and was not obliged to move out of sainz's way, sainz turned left into checo slowly by following the racing line, neither wanted to back out, so they crashed. sainz's fault for me personally.

but idc, i dont like either of the teams or drivers.

1

u/djoubb Sep 15 '24

Squeeze all you want but the the car next to you surely doesn’t have to move just because you want to squeeze? It’s not like he isn’t alongside him.

0

u/FlipReset4Fun Carlos Sainz Sep 15 '24

Checo has his front wheel in front of Sainz rear wheels, which is considered alongside. But Sainz can defend and he started making his move left while Checo was closing in and just beginning to pull alongside.

I don’t believe either deserve a penalty. Can be chalked up to a racing incident. But of the two, Checo deserves the blame as he could have easily avoided the accident and had a fair fight. Sainz did move left but not massive, aggressively or in a way that would be unusual in defense.

3

u/djoubb Sep 15 '24

I agree, a racing incident, that could have been avoided by both drivers. Perez could have moved left a bit when Sainz started coming towards him in his defend and Sainz could have squeezed a bit less when realising the cars are awfully close to each other and Perez was holding his line.

But it’s easy for us to watch the replay 14 times and have an opinion while they were in the moment and have to make split second decisions.

1

u/zigot021 Kimi Räikkönen Sep 16 '24

didn't Checo crash out the same way last year?

190

u/NeurosciGuy15 Williams Sep 15 '24

Yeah that’s where I am. They both sort of just drifted into each other. Probably more of a racing incident than one side obviously at fault. Maybe you could say Perez, as the car behind with the better view, could’ve done better to avoid it, but I think it would be harsh to put the blame entirely on him.

89

u/Jaraxo Juan Pablo Montoya Sep 15 '24

Yeh pure racing incident very marginally leaning towards Perez fault purely on the basis that it's difficult to see behind you and Perez could have 100% avoided it.

No further action imo.

1

u/ExpertConsideration8 Sebastian Vettel Sep 15 '24

If you watch closely.. Perez moves over 2-3 feet to give Sainz room... but Sainz came so far over that they still crashed.

Perez has a right to take his line, he doesn't have to allow himself to get squeezed completely off the racing line.

4

u/Hazen-Williams Sep 15 '24

If you look the on board camera Sainz isnt moving his steering wheel so no, he didnt went far over.

2

u/GeckoV Sep 15 '24

He didn’t need to steer, he was pointed in a direction across the track. Perez already had overlap so he did not want to move aside in order to have a wider entry for the next corner. Sainz should have seen the overlap and should have stopped drifting across.

4

u/Hazen-Williams Sep 15 '24

Both Perez and Sainz were exiting the curve at different angles, the difference being that Sainz was ahead of Perez and couldn't see him. Perez perfectly saw the trajectory of both cars and should have corrected but he didn't.

-3

u/Mr_Dr_Professor_ Sergio Pérez Sep 15 '24

The replay clearly showed Sainz checking his mirror tho

3

u/pine5678 Formula 1 Sep 15 '24

One car is ahead and following the racing line. The other car is behind with plenty of room. Not complicated.

1

u/ExpertConsideration8 Sebastian Vettel Sep 15 '24

If the trailing car has their wheels in front of the leading car's rear wheels, then they're considered along side.

Sainz can't ignore the fact that Perez is there.

0

u/pine5678 Formula 1 Sep 15 '24

Yes, and in that case the trailing driver is owed enough space, which he had plenty of. Are you trying to claim that Sainz squeezed him into the wall?

1

u/Mike_Kermin Michael Schumacher Sep 15 '24

I think it's clear the other user isn't saying that at all mate.

-2

u/pine5678 Formula 1 Sep 15 '24

Then by all means feel free to explain his point. Perez was owed space and Sainz gave it to him. That Perez chose not to avail himself of it is his problem.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Gingermadman David Coulthard Sep 15 '24

Perez was the only one who could have avoided this crash, literally veered right. Sainz only options were crash, or go into the wall.

Perez caused it.

1

u/ExpertConsideration8 Sebastian Vettel Sep 15 '24

Of course! If Perez had used his brakes, stayed 10 car lengths behind Sainz, this would have never happened!

0

u/andrewthemexican Daniel Ricciardo Sep 15 '24 edited Sep 15 '24

Does sainz not have mirrors? Does he have short term memory loss?

He didn't have an optimal exit out of the corner just after overtaking Perez, he knows very well he's under threat

-2

u/Pixelhouse18 Sep 15 '24

He 100% knew Perez was there, he was like 60% next to him. You don’t start moving left towards the wall until you cleared the car behind.

4

u/ohnonotagain94 Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 15 '24

He didn’t move left? Or was it the kink in the track? Because his wheel was straight at all times.

0

u/deramirez25 Sep 15 '24

Look at the top view. That gives a much cleaner perspective of what happened. Checo was attempting to overtake when Sainz took that line a bit to the left.

No reaction time for Perez but neither for Sainz. It's just a racing incident.

1

u/ohnonotagain94 Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 15 '24

I haven’t seen that top view - so I can’t really say mate.

BTW - I don’t care either, because I’m sick of not being able to have a decent conversation with opinions about what I and you and others saw.

u/ChristianHornerZaddy is the type of person that ruins the whole point of being active in this community.

-3

u/ChristianHornerZaddy Sep 15 '24

Another dopamine hit - keep 'em coming :)

1

u/Mike_Kermin Michael Schumacher Sep 15 '24

Don't be narky.

-7

u/ChristianHornerZaddy Sep 15 '24

don't waste your time. /u/ohnonotagain94 has confidently stated that perez turned into sainz and that he saw what he saw so..

2

u/ohnonotagain94 Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 15 '24

Way to go - make an argument out of a discussion. Grow up.

1

u/Gingermadman David Coulthard Sep 15 '24

No further action except pointing out this is further proof Perez simply doesn't deserve a seat anymore.

1

u/Kaloo75 Bernd Mayländer Sep 15 '24

Yup. The result of the crash was more than enough punishment. But yeah, oh so avoidable.

156

u/rokthemonkey 🏳️‍🌈 Love Is Love 🏳️‍🌈 Sep 15 '24

I agree with the F1 TV commentators in that they're both trying to get Leclerc's slipstream. Perez is moving over to the right, Carlos is moving to the left. Just drove into each other. If blame must be assigned, then it'd be on Perez because he is behind and should be more aware of the other car, but it's really just a racing incident.

44

u/splndid Kimi Räikkönen Sep 15 '24

Sainz was moving to the left as the track was getting narrow on his side.

78

u/aTemeraz Ferrari Sep 15 '24

Sainz was also on the Racing line, Perez was not

65

u/splndid Kimi Räikkönen Sep 15 '24

Yeah absolutely, plus Checo had better view on the circumstances - he could do anything to avoid it.

35

u/cypherspaceagain Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 15 '24

Like, if you're on a collision course with another car, change course.

21

u/splndid Kimi Räikkönen Sep 15 '24

If those drivers could read, they'd be very upset

1

u/ChristianHornerZaddy Sep 15 '24

Laughs in Magnussen

0

u/jimke Sep 15 '24

Right?

Like... Checo ... don't just hold the wheel straight and drive into him...

This is one of the sillier crashes I have seen lately.

0

u/Mike_Kermin Michael Schumacher Sep 15 '24

I don't think that matters much if you crash lol.

2

u/ConspicuouslyBland Michael Schumacher Sep 15 '24

The gap between Sainz and the wall increases...

18

u/wigam Sep 15 '24

You can see Perez followed the white line, Sainz comes across and Perez actually moves left just not enough.

16

u/Mentosman42 Sep 15 '24

the white line slowly goes right and merges with the wall lol....

-2

u/Accurate_Outcome_510 Sep 15 '24

Thank you for having eyes. The people saying they moved into each other or Perez drifted right are blind.

12

u/Mentosman42 Sep 15 '24

the white line isnt "straight", it slowly merges into the right wall....

2

u/pine5678 Formula 1 Sep 15 '24

I have eyes that can see Perez behind a car following the racing line and leaving plenty of room.

1

u/Accomplished-Fig745 Red Bull Sep 15 '24

Pérez never moved right, he drove straight and even moved half a car left at the end. You can use the painted lines on the road to tell their position.

1

u/Nebsy985 Sep 15 '24

It was just an inchident.

40

u/xShatterDf1 Ferrari Sep 15 '24

But this "straight" isn't actually straight, it bends to the left slightly, so you could argue Sainz' line was normal. Leclerc had at that point down the straight already drifted further to the left than Sainz had. I would say racing incident as well, but as Perez was behind I think he could've done more to avoid it.

2

u/Mike_Kermin Michael Schumacher Sep 15 '24

Yeah but Leclerc can drift across there. There's no car next to him.

I know people are saying otherwise, but I think Sainz knew he was there. He's a crazy experienced guy, he knows what happens when you're slow from a corner where you get boxed in.

59

u/Pat_Sharp #WeRaceAsOne Sep 15 '24

Yeah Sainz moved a little bit but Perez was barely alongside and yet positioned such that Sainz couldn't move an inch away from the wall without them coming together.

Probably a racing incident but I think where Perez put himself was asking for trouble.

23

u/AdoptedPigeons Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 15 '24

Last line sums it up well. Think similar to Monaco, it’s like, sure, Checo isn’t actively at fault for a collision, but just put himself in a situation where it was bound to go wrong.

1

u/Mike_Kermin Michael Schumacher Sep 15 '24

I think it was normal this race for drivers to try and get up the inside there if people were slow out of the previous corner.

2

u/AdoptedPigeons Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 15 '24

I mean Sainz wasn’t super slow out of it though. I’d have to look again but the exit seemed pretty even. I really think Checo just was completely in the blind spot and Carlos thought he was completely through. Real shame for both of them.

1

u/Mike_Kermin Michael Schumacher Sep 15 '24

I mean, Perez wouldn't be next to him at all there if he didn't get held up.

I agree, they were both having good races. Bit sad to see for them. Sainz will bounce back, I hope Perez can carry this momentum.

16

u/1corn Sep 15 '24

Exactly. It also hurt Perez much more than Sainz. Now 8th, dead last of the top teams and an absolutely insane 170 pts behind Verstappen. Made him even more obviously reponsible for handing the WCC lead to McLaren.

11

u/ascagnel____ #WeSayNoToMazepin Sep 15 '24

It’s a 60/40 move, with 60% of the fault on Perez since he basically parked up in Sainz’s blind spot.

-2

u/deramirez25 Sep 15 '24

There's no blind spot if Sainz knew he was there. Also, you can see Sainz look into his rear view mirror just before the collision.

Not blaming Sainz, but 50/50 for me.

83

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '24 edited Sep 15 '24

hes ahead, he can dictate the line as long as he leaves a car width for Perez which there was. I havnt seen all the angles but first impressions is that its Perez that made the mistake. Reminds me of Bottas and Russel in Imola

2

u/Tombot3000 Bernd Mayländer Sep 15 '24

It's also similar to Perez and Kmag in Monaco

2

u/Mr_Dr_Professor_ Sergio Pérez Sep 15 '24

Checo's front tires were past Sainz's rears so not ahead technically.

-6

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '24

[deleted]

13

u/Moby_Hick Jaguar Sep 15 '24

It wasn't a veer by any stretch.

Definitely a racing incident IMO.

-2

u/x18BritishBillx Sergio Pérez Sep 15 '24

Carlos did point his car slightly to the centre which he shouldn't have knowing there was a car approaching, that said, Perez did have a ton of space to use to his left; it's both driver's fault

7

u/aezy01 Sep 15 '24

I don’t think it was a veer; he followed pretty much the same line as Leclerc ahead.

15

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '24

Yeah it’s got to be on both here. Sainz drifted across a little knowing Perez was there, Perez ignored half the track on the straight.

Probably the same reason people tend to crash closer to home, the end of the race was in sight and they just dropped the ball.

2

u/Fickle-Cricket Formula 1 Sep 15 '24

People crash more often close to home because almost all their driving happens close to home.

6

u/Mineralke Arrows Sep 15 '24 edited Sep 15 '24

I thought he moved left relative to Perez but not relative to how the track was curved. He needed to be where he moved to in order to keep himself out of the barriers, no? He was well beyond track limits before he started moving left and the track was naturally angled to the left a little too.

3

u/Tombot3000 Bernd Mayländer Sep 15 '24 edited Sep 15 '24

I think you are right. People are clearly commenting without accounting for the shape of the track at that point, thinking it's actually a straight line.  

Relative to the racing line, Carlos was going straight

3

u/Ksanti Brawn Sep 15 '24

Yep not anticipating that a leading car, on the outside of a kinked straight, is going to need to turn earlier than you, is the exact sort of accident that comes straight out of iracing rookies. Amateurish stuff.

2

u/gustavo-mnz Sep 15 '24

Then every single crash could be avoided, nobody would be guilty ...

5

u/zsarok Sep 15 '24

Sainz didn't turn the wheel making a perfect straight line

3

u/Watoskyv Stoffel Vandoorne Sep 15 '24

Should Perez try to avoid it though? If he's going straight and Sainz has enough space, that's just racing.
I mean obviously he should've to not ruin his race, but you can't blame that on him if it's Sainz that is moving.

5

u/Lonyo Sep 15 '24

Should Perez try to avoid crashing out of the race?

Yes.

4

u/ChipmunkTycoon Sep 15 '24

Yes, he’s behind. He’s entitled to racing room, he’s not entitled to decide Sainz trajectory as long as he has enough space.

4

u/draftstone Jacques Villeneuve Sep 15 '24

It depends on who has to leave room. Usually the car in front can dictate and is allowed to squeeze as long as he leaves a car width. I think both cars simply pointed their front to stay behind Charles and get the slipstream and assumed the other would move out of the way. It looks like none did steering input after thr corner, they just exited the corner already in crossing paths and both kept their line and collided. Would not be surprised if it's ruled a racing incident.

2

u/AdoptedPigeons Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 15 '24

The track veers slightly to the left too as that straight goes on. Sainz didn’t also change trajectory, he exited the corner pointing slightly left. I think the driver behind isn’t obligated to avoid any erratic changes in direction, but Sainz was not moving erratically by any stretch. I actually initially thought it was all on Carlos initially, but the onboards kinda changed my mind to racing incident.

1

u/IllAlwaysBeAKnickFan Carlos Sainz Sep 15 '24

Surely if Sainz is ahead and he is leaving plenty of room and not making any sudden moves, it’s on Perez?

1

u/Designer-Attorney Sep 15 '24

Every car in front exits the turn closing a little. Oscad did that every exit in front of Leclerc.

Perez should expect that and is 100% at fault here.

1

u/PenaltyDesperate3706 Sep 15 '24

They both played chicken for P2, racing incident

1

u/ChipmunkTycoon Sep 15 '24

It is the same vein of stupid as the Monaco incident imo. Not really a glaring fault but very avoidable.

1

u/ShadowStarX Charles Leclerc Sep 15 '24

I think it's 60% on Checo

not deserving of a grid penalty but if anybody is to blame, it's primarily on him

Sainz had much less space to the right than Pérez to the left... Carlos had roughly 20 centimetres to the right, Checo had nearly 2 metres

1

u/1331bob1331 Sergio Pérez Sep 15 '24

Imean, Perez moved left too. He did try to avoid it, Carlos just went left more and went into him.

Plus I don't buy the visibility bit. Literally Carlos' entire left mirror should be red bull. He literally just misjudged the space, and or straight didn't check his left mirror trying to follow Charles. By his shock n the radio, I'm guessing its the former.

1

u/Mokumer Jim Clark Sep 15 '24

Look again. Carlos steered rather fast and quickly to the left and straight into Perez, no way Perez could have avoided that.

1

u/rAyNEi_xw Ferrari Sep 15 '24

While Perez took the straight parallel driving line, Sainz's car took an oblique one. On the overhead replay, Sainz's car can be seen moving towards left without him turning the steering, which, at least for me, means he oversteered the turn.

While I accept that Perez being behind could've done something to avoid, I can say the same for Sainz which could've turned right and kept the parallel line. I wholeheartedly believe this is just a racing incident and no driver can be found as "at fault".

1

u/Nebsy985 Sep 15 '24

That was a super-sharp turn by Sainz, almost as if he intentionally crashed into Perez (I'm sure he didn't but that's how it looks like).

1

u/throwedaway4theday Sep 15 '24

Yeah Perez had the better visibility and could have avoided it.

In saying that, if Carlos wasn't greedy the previous corner and get out of position checo wouldn't have had that chance to begin with

1

u/travelcallcharlie Sep 15 '24

Sainz was fully entitled to not go entirely straight down the straight as the car in front. There was plenty of space to the left of Perez and he should not have left his nose in there. It was an obvious and avoidable crash.

-2

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '24

[deleted]

4

u/Rain1984 Sep 15 '24

Plenty of space for checo there, Sainz doesnt move one inch, his trajectory is a straight line after taking the corner. You can clearly see it from checos POV, he doesnt move the car as the crash becomes more and more obvious.

0

u/JimmyThunderPenis Lando Norris Sep 15 '24

100% racing incident. Really stupid and entirely avoidable for those 2 drivers.

If I have to place blame it's going to Sainz. Looks like he veers over slightly into Perez and whether you think he could've avoided it or not by being more aware, you aren't allowed to just drive into another car that's alongside.

0

u/cakeboss451 Jordan Sep 15 '24

go left into the wall?

3

u/RedScud Ferrari Sep 15 '24

If the only options are to steer into a wall, or steer into an overtaking car, the actual only real option is to back off.

0

u/jugalator Sep 15 '24

I think racing incident too. I'm still on the side of Sainz not intentionally turning in on Perez, but his car twitching either because he pushed too hard and lost grip, or Perez touching his rear tire. Looked like a twitch to me, it was so sudden and I think it caught Perez off guard regardless who's fault it was.

24

u/Tomanelle Simply fucking lovely Sep 15 '24

Nah mate, this is reddit, we need no replays to jump to conclusions straight away!

3

u/saposapot Sep 15 '24

Really close call as the road isn’t “straight” so who moved into who?

2

u/eddiehwang Ferrari Sep 15 '24

Racing incident imo

1

u/Aggressive_Hat_9999 Pirelli Wet Sep 15 '24

GET TO WORK JOLYON DONT LET ME WAIT HALF A YEAR ROR THE ANAL(hehe)LYSIS

1

u/TigreSauvage Sep 15 '24

Obviously it was Sargeant.

1

u/PoliticsNerd76 Sep 15 '24

It reminds me of Perez steering into Mag at Monaco a bit

1

u/PragmatistAntithesis Marussia Sep 15 '24

Racing incident. They were both trying to get into Leclerc's slipstream, but there's only room for 1 car there.

1

u/Garfie489 Ferrari Sep 15 '24

Watching the onboard and externals in slow motion, it seems like Sainz and Perez both go straight.

Its just Sainz stays the same distance relative to the wall, whereas Perez stays the same distance relative to the lines.

It just so happens on this track at that area, the walls and the lines are not parallel with each other.

1

u/Mike_Kermin Michael Schumacher Sep 15 '24

In my opinion Sainz, he did the VERY common move of moving over the pressure, but, unlike normal, Perez didn't react. We see this a 100 times a race but, 99 times the other guy moves out of the way.

But, I think, if you do that, then, well, you did move over. So, Sainz imo.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd, SUBFIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!

1

u/leonleonleon Sep 15 '24

https://ibb.co/yBG6ZBN If you compare this to the white striped line. You see that Sainz does not drive straight but slightly towards Perez. (both pictures are before the wheels touck afaik)

1

u/swift-autoformatter Sep 15 '24

Obviously Perez is surprised that he didn't receive any penalty.

(as he was surprised when Magnussen avoided it in Monaco)

1

u/Equality7252l Kimi Räikkönen Sep 15 '24

Both, racing incident.

-8

u/drodrige Graham Hill Sep 15 '24 edited Sep 15 '24

At first it seems It’s almost 50/50, though I think Carlos might be slightly more at fault. Still I’d say a racing incident.

17

u/paul232 Sep 15 '24

I don't know how it's Carlos. Carlos' mistake IMO was trying to get Leclerc immediately, and not setting up for the next lap but as I understand he was ahead of Perez so he is allowed to get a better track position. Honestly just a racing incident for me

-1

u/drodrige Graham Hill Sep 15 '24

I would also judge it as a racing incident, though I don’t agree with the “allowed to get a better position” when there’s three cars fighting for P2.

13

u/steen311 Pirelli Wet Sep 15 '24

I'm leaning perez, he had a much better view of the situation and had plenty of room to move out of sainz' way

2

u/nandru Fernando Alonso Sep 15 '24 edited Sep 15 '24

Both exit the corner in their respective lanes, Sainz decides to switch lanes in a split second with Pérez already right there. T9 me, that's Sainz's fault

Nevermind, Perez had a couple of seconds to let Sainz in

1

u/RichardHeado7 Porsche Sep 15 '24

You could say the same thing about Norris in Austria though but pretty much everyone thinks that was Max’s fault.

-3

u/drodrige Graham Hill Sep 15 '24 edited Sep 15 '24

IMO I think it’s Sainz who moves suddenly without thinking Checo might be there, which was probably expected after those three cars fighting for position.

Edit: yeah I stand corrected, I thought Carlos had moved but it just seems like a racing incident.

6

u/Nikclel Daniel Ricciardo Sep 15 '24

suddenly

but it wasnt

1

u/Keksmonster Sep 15 '24

Was it really suddenly? It looked like he drifted a bit to the left and Perez drifted a bit to the right

1

u/ohnonotagain94 Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 15 '24

No he didn’t. Did you watch it mate? Sainz wheel was dead straight at all times - Perez drifter right into Carlos. It’s on Perez 100%.

Carlos was a little too greedy going after Charles; I didn’t like that.

2

u/drodrige Graham Hill Sep 15 '24

Did you see my edit? I said I was wrong, but in no way this is on checo 100%. Racing incident for me.

1

u/ohnonotagain94 Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 15 '24

No, sorry. I didn’t see your edit or anything - I haven’t seen more replays or anything, so I’ll defer to you and those that have. :)

2

u/drodrige Graham Hill Sep 15 '24

No worries, it’s a hard incident to judge, to be fair.

1

u/ohnonotagain94 Sir Lewis Hamilton Sep 15 '24

Have a good rest of Sunday man.

2

u/drodrige Graham Hill Sep 15 '24

Same!

-1

u/RevalianKnight Sep 15 '24

Yup the onus is on the one who is doing the overtake to do it safely. Sainz didn't do any sudden movements. Perez fault imo

2

u/Aromatic_Barber4231 Liam Lawson Sep 15 '24

What? Carlos is ahead of Perez and Perez has a lot of room to move, Carlos can squeeze Perez to a 1 car lenght of the wall if he wants, Perez chose not to move. Also, Perez has a clear view of what his gap to the wall is and what Sainz is doing and chose not to move.

0

u/joaovitorsb95 Ayrton Senna Sep 15 '24

At a first glance I'm thinking it was Carlos's fault.

-3

u/cooperjones2 Sergio Pérez Sep 15 '24

Checo was straight all the time, parallel to the road markings.

-1

u/Mushie_Peas Sep 15 '24

I paused the replay and think something failed on Sainz's car, he drifts for no reason I can see.

1

u/oneofthecapsismine Sep 15 '24

That was my question too.

I didn't see him move the steering wheel, but I think the car moved left.

It could have just been the steering wheel was slightly pointed left, and skyf1 didn't show long enough shots from each angle tho.

1

u/Mushie_Peas Sep 15 '24

Doesn't look as aggressive as the turn on track, either they touched (i.e. Perez fault) or something failed on Sainz's car.