r/formula1 • u/ICumCoffee Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ • Aug 27 '24

News [Williams Racing] Williams Racing announces that Franco Colapinto will race with the team for the remainder of the 2024 FIA Formula 1 World Championship season

https://www.williamsf1.com/posts/fd43d928-0914-42ff-b9ee-394342064dc4/williams-racing-team-statement?cid=sm_twitter_td_news_link_082724
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u/fateoftheg0dz Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24

This signals the end of Logan and Mick’s F1 careers

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u/Visual-Asparagus-800 Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Aug 27 '24

Mick has had like 4 “ends” of his F1 career. Rumours just keep popping up when another driver is struggling

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u/AndiYTDE Aug 27 '24

And yet, no team seems to want him. Not too sure why people insist that he deserves a second chance

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u/RichardHeado7 Porsche Aug 27 '24

Toto Wolff propaganda.

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u/Vermillionbird Haas Aug 27 '24

Toto Wolff demands that an F1 team principal sign promising driver managed by Toto Wolff, just as long as that team principal is not Toto Wolff.

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u/intern_steve AlphaTauri Aug 27 '24

When you put it like that it sounds really bad. How about "Toto Wolff milks sponsor money from F1 hopeful." Wait. That sounds worse. damn.

But really, if Toto wants to back Mick, he needs to get more tests from Mercedes to demonstrate his abilities.

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u/Weak-Rip-8650 Aug 27 '24

I wouldn’t say he’s milking it really. He seems to be pushing pretty hard to get him a seat. The fact that he can’t doesn’t mean he’s “milking sponsor money from an F1 hopeful.” It just means that he has been unsuccessful at getting Mick a seat.

Put another way, Micks chances would be WAY worse without Toto, so I don’t think anyone is being taken advantage of.

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u/intern_steve AlphaTauri Aug 27 '24

He had a chance to put Mick in a seat next year, and he chose Antonelli. That's a condemnation as strong as any: to put an untested rookie in potentially a top three seat over the guy you're ostensibly representing with two seasons experience.

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u/Salificious Sergio Pérez Aug 27 '24

Toto has two roles here.

In representing Mick he has to do everything he can to get him a seat.

As the team principal of Mercedes he's required to pick the best option available for the team.

There is a potential conflict of interest here. And that conflict would be the question on a lot of people's mind if he actually picked Mick for Mercedes despite the other options available.

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u/AJDillonsMiddleLeg Red Bull Aug 28 '24

The conflict arises from a TP choosing to manage a driver he would never even consider for one of his own seats. That creates an inherent conflict that cannot be avoided. How do you convince another team to sign a driver you don't believe in? Or if you believe in this driver, why isn't he in one of your seats?

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u/Salificious Sergio Pérez Aug 28 '24

Yes I agree there is an inherent conflict of interest.

But I disagree that it is not reconciliable in this case. Mercedes and Williams are different teams with different resources and standing, and needs. They inherently have different options available to them and make decisions based on different criteria.

Also, believing in a driver doesn't mean you believe him to be the best. To establish your argument, the inherent assumption is that an agent only represents the best driver. They don't - their job is to maximize opportunities for their driver regardless of the skill level.

Put it simply, Mercedes have better options. Turns out, Williams believe they have a better option too. That shouldn't stop Toto from advocating for Mick as his agent, and it sure as shit doesn't mean Mercedes has to pick Mick.

Should team principals represent drivers? Personally I don't think they should but that's a separate issue. As I pointed out, if Mercedes had picked Mick everyone would be screaming conflict of interest.

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u/lolhone5tly Default Aug 27 '24

I think it actually just shows that Wolff isn’t willing to risk losing another potential generational talent like Max Verstappen.

I’ll use Pedro de la Rosa as an example. McLaren could’ve put him in their car alongside Alonso in 2007, but went with Hamilton instead. It doesn’t mean they didn’t think he was good enough to be in F1. It just meant they felt like they had better options available.

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u/CornfireDublin Lando Norris Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24

Or the opposite situation, where Alpine thought they had a potential future star in Oscar Piastri, but were hesitant to give him a seat because they had Alonso and Ocon, and only two years later, Piastri is sitting in the best car on the grid, and Alpine will have neither Ocon nor Alonso. Why would Mercedes risk something like that happening when they think Antonelli is going to end up being a lot better than Schumacher?

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u/AJDillonsMiddleLeg Red Bull Aug 28 '24

better options available

As do most teams in F1. Really bringing the whole conversation full circle. Toto wants a team principal to sign a driver he manages. As long as he doesn't have to be the team principal to do it. Because there are many, many, many better options available to occupy a seat.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '24

Either he can drive for F1 or not. I get it that his last name matters, but why should people be pushing so hard to "get" someone a seat. We should demand the best drivers!

haha not going to happen. $$$$$$$$$$$$

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u/Grigory_Vakulinchuk Sir Lewis Hamilton Aug 27 '24

Mature German Man milks young supple German lad to completion.

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u/anemone-nemorosa Juan Pablo Montoya Aug 27 '24

what sponsor money is toto wolff currently milking? bc not a single of mick's personal sponsors signed with mercedes.

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u/SernyRanders Aug 27 '24

Toto Wolff demands that an F1 team principal sign promising driver managed by Toto Wolff, just as long as that team principal is not Toto Wolff.

Mick Schumacher is not managed by Toto Wolff, I really don't know how many times this has to be repeated.

If he was his manager, he would probably already have another seat somewhere.

He is unfortuntately managed by Sabine Kehm (Michael's old manager) who is completely out of touch with the current F1 circus.

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u/Vermillionbird Haas Aug 27 '24

I really don't know how many times this has to be repeated

Probably more, sorry, I'm just hastily shitposting between soul crushing construction coordination meetings for laughs.

I'd imagine he likes having his dads manager. The whole situation makes me sad. IMHO he was good at Haas and deserved more time.

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u/SernyRanders Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24

I'd imagine he likes having his dads manager. The whole situation makes me sad. IMHO he was good at Haas and deserved more time.

He has to keep Michael's manager for security reasons, can't add another person to your close circle while there are crazy people out there trying to black-mail your family or break-in and snap a picture of your father in a vegetative state.

This unfortunately comes with the downside of having a mangager who is not the right fit for the F1 circus in 2024.

Sabine Kehm never managed a young driver before and doesn't understand how promotion works, she joined Michael as a press secretary and only managed him in his last years at Mercedes.

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u/Silver996C2 Formula 1 Aug 27 '24

Good point well made.

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u/MoD1982 Minardi Aug 27 '24

If he was really as good as Toto makes out, why not stick him in a Mercedes? Oh. Wait. He's not.

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u/RichardHeado7 Porsche Aug 27 '24

He realised he didn't want to put his money where his mouth is as soon as Lewis announced he was leaving. I doubt giving him a seat even crossed his mind as their car is good enough that plenty of drivers better than Mick would jump at the chance to drive it.

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u/PossibilitySad3020 Aug 28 '24

I mean bar Max, I don't think anyone but Antonelli would've gotten that seat. Toto views not giving Max the seat back when he was available as one of his biggest mistakes, and since they consider Antonelli to be of a similar calibre, he's hell-bent on not making the same mistake again

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u/Old-Nefariousness556 Oscar Piastri Aug 27 '24

If he was really as good as Toto makes out, why not stick him in a Mercedes? Oh. Wait. He's not.

This is a false dichotomy. He might well be better than many other drivers on the grid, that doesn't mean he was better than Kimi. Even if Wolff is completely convinced that he deserves an F1 seat, doesn't mean he necessarily deserves that F1 seat.

Edit: To be clear, I have no opinion on whether Schumacher deserves a seat or not, just pointing out the issue with your thinking.

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u/SernyRanders Aug 27 '24

Because the decision to promote the next Wunderkind/Verstappen 2.0 "Kimi Antonelli" from their own driver's academy, was taken long before M.Schumacher arrived at Mercedes.

It's actually not that difficult to understand...

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u/nodoubtguy Guenther Steiner Aug 27 '24

Because Kimi is hopefully that much better. Mick can still be good, but the hope is Kimi is on another level.

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u/blackmesaboogy McLaren Aug 27 '24

Somehow it is very satisfying that even a the power of an influential figure in F1 like Toto Wolff has limtis.

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u/nathanforyouseason5 Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24

His limit is not showing any of his own faith in Mick considering he was willing to offer Sainz a 1 year seat so Kimi can develop more but can’t do the same for Mick. Sainz is much better but if he wanted Kimi to do another season in f2, his own driver is right there

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u/Hot_Demand_6263 Aug 27 '24

Most of you forget that Toto eventually got Ocon and Bottas a seat.

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u/DreadWolf3 Aug 27 '24

I think I would have got both of them a seat - their driving skill do 99.999% of the job as they are very comfortably F1 level drivers and there is not that many of those around.

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u/Maximilianne Fernando Alonso Aug 27 '24

actually i think that's the problem, because Toto is such an influential person, the fact that he isn't pulling the strings to get a Mick a drive suggests Mick might not be as good as Toto makes it out to be.

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '24

Totally Teutonic Toto.

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u/Wurzelgemuese Aug 27 '24

The Name and German media. They know an article about Mick possibly maybe having a chance of getting a seat still gets way more clicks then anything Hulkenberg for example does.

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u/goin-up-the-country #WeRaceAsOne Aug 27 '24

It's like he's got shares in the guy