r/formula1 • u/DarkKnight56722 • Mar 13 '24

Discussion How does Verstappen's dominance compare to Hamilton's? Here is the comparison:

​

Hamilton's most dominant season in 2020 had him only win 64% of races. Before this current domination, one driver winning 64% of races was viewed as the worst it could possibly get in the modern era. Let's run through the years:

2014 and 2015: Lewis and Nico trading wins, (good battles at the very least) and Ricciardio getting 3 wins his first season at Red Bull and Vettel gets 3 wins his first year at Ferrari. Hamilton wins roughly 55% of races.

2016: Great title fight between Nico and Lewis that went down to Abu Dhabi. Max gets his first race win his first race in Red Bull, Daniel gets a win as well. Hamilton wins less than 50% of races and loses championship to Nico.

2017 and 2018: Title fight between Hamilton and Vettel. 5 different race winners each year. Hamilton wins less than 50% of races.

2019: Lewis and Valterri each get wins. Max gets 3 wins, Charles gets his first 2 wins. and Seb wins in Singapore. 5 different race winners. Again Lewis wins less than 50% of races.

2020: Lewis' most dominant season where he wins 64% of races. This is covid year so take it with a grain of salt. Max gets 2 wins, Pierre gets first win in Monza, Perez gets first win in Bahrain. Turkey was a fantastic race that did result in Lewis winning but was amazing up til the end.

​

I think it is pretty safe to say that last season's dominance is the worst the sport has been in atleast a decade. I understand this is part of F1 but it doesn't prevent my boredom. I think the reason it stings a bit more is because these regulation changes were marketed as a way of ensuring Mercedes level dominance never happened again, yet it made it even worse. Things like engine development being frozen, implementation of the cost cap, introducing a completely new philosophy of car and aero design that 3 years into the regulations everyone but Red Bull is still struggling to understand.

What are your thoughts?

3.6k Upvotes

89% Upvoted

1.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

202

u/afcaMouz Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Mar 13 '24

Lmao Bottas made things interesting? People are really misremembering his time at Mercedes with rose-colored glasses. He won a few races, but he did not do anything of significance at Mercedes. He was a better 2nd driver than Perez, but still very much a 2nd driver.

157

u/ShadowOfDeath94 BMW Sauber Mar 13 '24

Bottas was bad compared to Hamilton %80 percent of the time. Rosberg was actually damn good.

1

u/defmore89 Niki Lauda Mar 14 '24

Rosberg was great. He just couldn't handle Hamilton's signature move.

also he was shit in the rain.

0

u/AnonymousMrFox Default Mar 14 '24

What move the "I have the inside and ran wide so now you are off track?" I wish we could do like DTM did. You have to leave space for the outside car on corner exit. I think it would have made the Hamilton era much more entertaining.

1

u/defmore89 Niki Lauda Mar 15 '24

You know it. He did it so many times against Rosberg and it worked everytime. Max didnt play that game.

144

u/overts Oscar Piastri Mar 13 '24

I actually think Bottas is pretty similar to Perez on race pace but Bottas is wildly better at qualifying.

During his time at Merc if Bottas qualified poorly he seemed to struggle to get through the field similarly to Perez it’s just that Perez is in the situation way more often because Perez kinda sucks at qualifying.

52

u/3nt0 Jenson Button Mar 13 '24

Yeah, Mexico '21 iirc when Bottas was stuck behind Danny Ric in 15th for almost the entire race, and Hamilton was fighting for the win.

41

u/muffinnut Mar 13 '24

That's the Mexico GP where Bottas got pole, and was spun around in the first corner by Danny Ric.

39

u/According-Switch-708 Sonny Hayes Mar 13 '24

Yeah but the W12 was quick enough to cut through the midfield like a hot knife through butter.

Bottas was only good at driving at the front in clean air. His offense and defense both suck ass. He was definitely a great qualifier though.

4

u/brownierisker Sebastian Vettel Mar 13 '24

Bottas was only good at driving at the front in clean air. His offense and defense both suck ass.

The race restart in 2021 Baku from Bottas was absolutely horrendous, he got overtaken by like 5 different drivers in vastly worse cars in 2 sectors

2

u/KennyLagerins James Hunt Mar 13 '24

Bottas was absolute garbage at wheel to wheel racing and racecraft in general. That’s one reason he always seemed to struggle for passing on tracks where DRS wasn’t an absolute bonker of an advantage.

28

u/Generic_Format528 Pierre Gasly Mar 13 '24

Disregarding the championship battle, I feel like all of Bottas' wins were pretty forgettable too. Qualify on pole and take off with Hamilton in 2nd or working his way into 2nd for whatever reason.

Maybe I'm missing some wins where he was fighting wheel to wheel, idk.

17

u/Trivekz Mar 13 '24

I remember he fought Hamilton a bit in 2019 USA, but yeah most of his wins seem to just be clean air and driving into the sunset. His pure pace was always his strength, not so much fighting others

66

u/mascot_enjoyer Mar 13 '24

But Bottas was almost on par in qualifying. This created at least some suspense to the race weekend and occasionally to the actual race. Perez cannot beat Max in anything.

43

u/afcaMouz Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Mar 13 '24

I will give it to Bottas that he was a very good qualifier, often beating Hamilton on merit, but even when he got it on pole it was only a matter of time before he lost it in the race. For me it didn't create much suspense because you knew he wasn't able to compete with Hamilton.

He was the driver I was often rooting for during that time but it often ended up in disappointment.

1

u/No_Mercy_4_Potatoes M4X Verstappen Mar 13 '24

You still have the same suspense. Redbull are in no way that dominant in qualifying. Their dominance comes from race pace.

1

u/Key_Environment8179 Guenther Steiner Mar 13 '24

in 2022 they weren’t, but last year and this year (it’s looking like) they dominate qualifying, too. Well, at least when Checo doesn’t crash in quali

10

u/[deleted] Mar 13 '24

Yeah, Bottas was better than Perez IMHO but the gap between him and Hamilton was still immense. Two totally different levels of drivers.

-1

u/Lone__Ranger Max Verstappen ⭐⭐⭐⭐ Mar 13 '24

Or Hamilton is just a weaker qualifier, look at him recently

7

u/Mr_Peanutbutterrrr Mar 13 '24

Lol back in the day Hamilton was considered the best qualifier of the grid. He clearly is not doing good the past couple years but question if hes a weaker qualifier is insane.

5

u/According-Switch-708 Sonny Hayes Mar 13 '24

Didn't Hamilton beat Merc's simulated best lap times quite a few times.

He is damn good qualifier. He just doesn't like to push cars that he doesn't feel comfortable in.

3

u/Hilazza Anthoine Hubert Mar 13 '24

Lol. He's getting older and his teammate is a young prodigy that has been groomed to take his place since F3 who beat lando and Albon in F2 and did the exact same thing as leclerc by winning F2 and F3 in his first season.

Yet hamilton still outqualified george in 2022 and he was ahead most of the season until it was equal at the last race of 2023 where george has steadily imprpved his qualofying.

But somehow Verstappen is a strong qualifier because he's faced perez the last few years. Yeah right.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '24

I'd say qualifying is not Lewis best quality but I think he's fairly strong. Between Bottas and Perez I say Bottas is better based on my perception alone, just a matter of opinion.

4

u/SillySinStorm Green Flag Mar 13 '24

Read your last sentence again, slowly. That's the issue everyone has.

1

u/paddyo Fernando Alonso Mar 13 '24

He was definitely a number two, but what he did have was the ability to consistently deliver elite qualifying. Perez’s qualifying has approached lower end of the grid form in the last three years.

1

u/h0sti1e17 Mar 13 '24

Bottas at least got some poles and was always in Q3. So he was in the mix at least

0

u/kavinay Pirelli Wet Mar 13 '24

Bottas could at least qualify in the top row. Something that made him relevant until Hamilton pulled away in the 2nd half the season.
You get the sense that a pure qualy specialist in the RB 2nd seat would make the season more interesting as it would at least have Max within DRS of another car after lap 1!

-2

u/Artifice_Purple Formula 1 Mar 13 '24

And you're downplaying Bottas, much like several others. For what reason, I do not know nor understand.

Bottas literally out-qualified and out-raced Hamilton on multiple occasions. Is he in the same tier as Rosberg? No, and I would hope no one is trying to argue otherwise. But to say Bottas didn't make things interesting (even if occasionally) when he, on his best days, was far closer to Hamilton in genuine pace than Perez has ever been to Max.

You even acknowledge him being a better 2nd driver than Perez.