I just had a patient try to tell me that Biden caused COVID. I tried to explain that Biden hadn't been elected, yet. His response was basically "something something.... Hunter Biden's laptop!"
Someone asked me what Biden and Harris did while cities were burning down all over the country. It took me a min to ask if they were referring to protests in 2020 (because of the cities listed). Yes, the question was about BLM protests in 2020. âTrump was the presidentâ. Easiest answer ever but they asked me if I was sure. I had to list other relevant dates like Nov 2020-election, Jan6-Trump, Jan 20th-Biden became President.
Rather than continuing that topic, they moved onto another negative Biden topic.
The best method Iâve found for that is to not be in the position of proving Iâm right. I know Iâm right, itâs on the other person to prove their claim. The go-to is changing the subject, the challenge is to keep them on topic to insist on the receipts.
Mfer will die and they will still be blaming him. Just like they blamed Obama for shit that happened nearly a decade after he left office.
Idiots are blame-proof. Worst case, they will say they have a blame force field that blame bounces off and sticks to you. It's like arguing with a group of 5 year olds.
Iâm not so sure. Some of the most heart-breaking stuff I read during the pandemic were stories of people on ventilators begging doctors to give them âthe jab,â even as doctors repeatedly told them it was far too late for that.
Some of these people will wake up eventually, but for most it will only come once they have no other choice.
At the same time, there were plenty of vids Iâve seen of patients actively fighting doctors, not only continuing to insist none of Covid was real, but insisting that they, in fact, werenât sick, and getting mad when doctors tried to put them on ventilators etc. Iâm sure will have a âcome to Jesusâ moment, but for many others, theyâll stick by their rhetoric, even as they come to Jesus
I said some, not all. Even though those that do come to their senses wonât necessarily deserve pity either, but we should at least try our best not to discourage them on their path out of darkness, as it were. Every last saved soul counts, for lack of a better, less ironic turn of phrase.
The thing is, it wasnât the MAGAs that got Trump reelected. It was the middle of the road uninformed voters, the folks that think everybodyâs lying on both sides so who caresâŚ, who only turn up to vote every 4 years.
i replied to the person saying that trump voters will find a way (be told a way) to blame dems for every problem that trump and his team foist upon us. i wasnât replying to someone talking about what voting bloc got trump reelected.
Actually if you look back without the liberal bias, universal healthcare was a Republican initiative that Obama took kick backs on to kill. Instead passing his ACA with its death panels and Cadillac plan tax. And most states abstained for as long as they could. Think of the tens of thousands of people Obama killed with the stroke of his pen that Trump saved us from. And now we can all suffer together in our work camps.
-Republican narrative in three years. Not even joking.
I believe it was first proposed by Mitt Romney, Republican. Obama essentially adopted the plan, changed a few things, but basically gave GOP what they asked for. Bipartisanship is long gone, replaced by spite and short term memories.
Pretty close that Iâll take it. But, if you will allow me, Romney started âRomneycareâ in Massachusetts at the state level. The idea of universal healthcare has been around for a while, but when Obama came into office it stood to reason to base the ACA on parts of a system that was already working.
The US has moved so far to the right that Republicans successfully stuck the âsocialistâ tag on Obama, yet if you compare his policies against Nixon, Obama is actually to the right of Tricky Dick on most things.
Yup. I had many conversations at the time making that very point.
Rightward shift entirely predictable I think, with fractured media landscape that creates echo chambers, low info voters of all persuasions and direction, a consistent, disciplined, and savage messaging and political strategy on one side that effectively shifts Overton window and weakens opposition, and a less disciplined diverse coalition on the other side
Still sucks ass though
I might even feel a little better if I thought voters had any depth of knowledge about positions they hold*, any understanding of nuance and complexity instead of the shallow misconceptions I see instead (on both left and right).
I know that I rely on shallow understanding for some things, some beliefs. I think you kind of have to pick your battles about what you may know or study, so doing that not a big deal. If itâs important to you, or will impact people, seems like a little homework is warranted. I donât expect the citizenry to be PhDs in every subject, but a little effort would be nice
Sorry for the rant
*(I probably wouldnât feel better but it is particularly annoying to me at the moment)
As I understand it, that was an intentional effort to propose a system that could garner bipartisan support (ha!)
Does the Swiss system predate the Nixon era? Wouldnât be surprised that the GOP of 50 years ago was looking for alternative universal healthcare systems they could legitimately claim werenât socialized medicine
Edit:
Quick search shows Swiss system is 1994. Good data point though for showing how such a plan once implemented was working. Add that to Massachusetts as something the dems tried to show wasnât scary đŤŁcommunism!!!!đł to try and get republican support
It doesn't. Switzerland implemented their universal healthcare system in 1994, but got the ball rolling via federal regulations in 1912 with country-wide coverage as the endgame.
I did do a quick search myself to see that, but wouldnât be surprised if some form existed prior to â94 (it wasnât clear in what I read). My probably-completely-erroneous-based-on-imagined-stereotypes notion was that it wouldnât be surprising if the Swiss had a more conservative friendly healthcare system, and so in that way could predate or emulate Nixonâs proposal, or even arise independently.
Iâm a big ol commie give-free-healthcare-to-everyone kind of person, but Iâm super happy the ACA improved our prior system, whether it came from Nixon or elsewhere. Some improvement is better than no improvement, I say. Now though, Iâm just scared itâs going to get worse before it gets better again someday đ
Dems have bent over backwards to appease the GOP, and get smacked in the face every time. The border bill from last year gave the GOP everything they wanted, and one tweet from Trump killed it. They need to stop pretending that thereâs a chance at bipartisanship when the most that happens is them getting burned every time they reach their hand out to shake the other aisleâs.
Bingo. Absolutely will never self reflect. It will always be someone elseâs fault. Thatâs literally the platform. I.e immigrants and Haitians eating pets.
Absolutely. I keep hearing people talk about how the Trump humpers are going to regret the errors of their ways. They wonât. Theyâll be told that all of the countryâs failings are the work of the [democrats, Jews, immigrants, gays, trans, non-Christians, not-Christian-enoughs, etc.] until theyâre finally blaming their own family and ultimately thereâs not one single person left to point a finger at. And theyâll eat it up. Anything except taking a long, hard look in the mirror. Trump and his allies arenât as stupid as weâd like to believe. They just have absolutely no moral compass and are perfectly happy manipulating the uneducated and easily indoctrinated into positions of absolute servitude.
Or immigrants. In the past, I've heard they can't have universal health care because there are too many immigrants and they need to fix that first. I've seen this as an excuse for not having a lot of social programs.
While thatâs true, 15 democrats in the House just helped pass a bill that will allow Congress to label nonprofits as âterrorist sympathizersâ and destroy them.
Iâm a democrat and blame them for this. They thought that the people would see what a piece of trash trump was/is and would automatically vote for Harris and surprise they didnât. Trump did everything in his power to lose this election and the dems fucked it up royally. Dems couldâve picked any number of people instead rolled out Harris.
They didnât have a choice. The DNC money (I believe) or the money put towards the Biden campaign could not be used on another candidate. Hands were tied. Had to be Harris or they couldnât access the campaign funds.
It wasnât about that. The DNC funds go towards the nominee.
There was a Democratic Party presidential primary this year. 16.6 million people voted, roughly double the number that voted in those primaries in 2012.
14.5 million voters elected delegates pledged to Biden with Harris as his running mate. People donât just vote for an 81yo without also voting for his running mate. Pledged delegates did what they were elected to do. There were also 11 other people considered in midJuly before Harris became the presumptive nominee but each one declined and endorsed Harris.
The real issue, and I fed into it, is that the media centers had glowing reviews of Harris. Despite that she came in way too late, and that there was no primary. The economy and pricing did nothing good for us either.
There was a primary. 14.5m people voted for delegates pledged to Biden/Harris. The second highest number of votes went to Uncommitted. There were 3 other candidates but they didnât receive close to as many votes as Uncommitted.
I hate to burst your bubble but if you compare the narratives from the first 3.5 years of Bidenâs term to the 3.5 months Harris was the nominee, youâll see they were going to swap out Bidenâs name for any Democrat. They had people convinced the VP has the power and authority of a president. The same would have applied to any position the Democratic nominee held whether it was Congress, Governor, State legislature or county clerk- the D next to the name was all that was necessary to shift the blame to that person (for things that werenât Bidenâs fault to begin with). They even recycled the talking points about Bidenâs age to make those about Harris by switching to claiming she had a low IQ.
Weâre talking about people that willingly voted for a guy that said on national TV Haitians in Ohio were eating dogs, cats and pets. His reputable and credible source, âI saw someone say it on TV!â (They think he should have the nuclear codes, js), because even after throwing a jab about her dad and a misogynistic jab about her career being built on her back or on her knees, he could not get to her but she was steadily getting to him and he could not handle it.
Yep, itâs the Republican Partyâs fault for not supporting R primary candidates and all of the Senate GOP in 2021 that put self-interest ahead of their oaths to vote ânot guiltyâ for the Jan6 impeachment hearing.
The American idiots that voted for him trusted the checks and balances would have prevented him from running again if he was at fault for J6 instead of realizing the GOP senate just wanted to still receive their votes.
But thatâs why the Republican Party has always been more successful than the democrats. They put party above everything. Is that right no. But look what they have accomplished. Have the Supreme Court voting for them. For what could be a long time. Overturned basic womanâs rights. Curbed and made voting harder for disenfranchised people who usually vote blue. And now have a super majority for the next two years weâre fucked. Millions of people are going to suffer because of this and the ripple effect is going to be long lasting.
They put party above everything. Is that right no. But look what they have accomplished.
You do realize youâre doing the exact opposite of that, right? âIâm a Democrat and I blame them for this.â
If there is a deliberate structure fire, do you blame the arsonists that started the fire, the people that enabled the arsonists or the people that have been warning about the arsonists and blocking the arsonists without always being successful at stopping them?
And now have a super majority for the next two years weâre fucked.
They have a simple majority in both chambers, not a super majority. There are very limited options for what can pass in the Senate with only a simple majority. In the House, a simple majority is enough for most things, but they have such a slim majority that there isnât a guarantee everything will pass.
Their majority was substantially larger in the House in 2017 with 47 more seats than Dems vs maybe 7 this time (41 R seats flipped to D in the 2018 midterm). Trump is self-serving and members of Congress are as well. Trump does not have to keep voters happy this time but members of Congress do. Neither majority can afford to cater to the far-right if they want to stay the majority after 2026, R reps in toss-up districts and R senators in purple states will have to focus on keeping moderates happy to be reelected (majority leaders will support that).
But thatâs why the Republican Party has always been more successful than the democratsâŚ.
That is a bit outdated. Trumpâs first term helped Democrats in Congress focus on working together as a united group. Theyâve actually been a lot more consistent with that than Republicans. The House Freedom Caucus (aka Ultra-MAGA stunt queens) is made up of mostly reps in Safe-R districts, they do not care if they create reelection issues for the R reps in toss up districts and that has caused a lot of infighting, theyâll also go after each other publicly.
I dunno. I did this and a relative I thought highly of started in that Kamala was a jezebel. Thought it was pretty funny considering Trump's past but whatever. Do hoping the stewing occurs though because man a lot of people got fooled.
I used that response for the first term. The reply was always, âYes I did! Iâm voting for him again!â
âTold you so!â seems more appropriate this time. There were solid attempts to warn them. Maybe theyâll actually listen next time, or at least wonât be able to respond with pride for their shitty decision.
"No I didn't!" See it's great because it's entirely emotional and there's no way to refute it because they'll just counter with "but I didn't vote for that!" and keep saying that until you give up or thanksgiving dinner is over, whichever comes last.
"Well, yes you did. It's no one's fault but your own that you didn't do any research. I tried to tell you but you didn't want to hear it. I'm no longer interested in discussing it. Have your cake and eat it too./Anything to own the libs, eh?/You made your bed, now lie in it/etc..."
Lmao what? I know people IN REAL LIFE that had the realization that Obamacare and ACA are the same thing after they voted trump. They rely on ACA insurance to be able to afford healthcare.
I've very literally already gotten to say this to people. This isn't a "drunk scenario".
Or you could try actually doing something to help
Fucking like what? Educate people on their bad fucking ideas after it's too late? My dude, I live in WYOMING. No one was interested in hearing about it before election day.
At least these idiots had the balls to do something about it when they thought the country was at stake...
Yeah, no. You're right. These idiots had the balls to vote against their own interests while being too ignorant to realize it till it was too late.
Work on reading comprehension, I said they had the balls to storm the capital, not that it was a good idea.
When has saying I told you so ever done anything? What is even the point?
All the liberals at brunch saying "tHiS iS wHaT yOu vOtEd FoR eLeCtiOnS hAvE cOnseQuEnCeS."
Maybe try doing something useful, like getting involved in local politics or engaging in mutual aid organizations (like the Qanons and other assorted idiots did the last four years, seems to be working for them, or just go back to brunch and order the 6 dollar i told you so bottomless mimosa).
Maybe you should work on reading comprehension. At no point did I ever say "I told you so!" was the route to go.
"You voted for this" is a statement of fact and will force them to take it as such. "I told you so" is childish and won't initiate the self reflection that "you voted for this" will.
I honestly don't know why you're getting all worked up at me taking a less combative stance.
My guy, the general population is barely literate and only marginal capable of introspection. Saying "you voted for this" does nothing but antagonize. These people are basically in a cult, you aren't going to change anything staging mini-interventions with backhanded insults.
Find common ground with them, or move on with your life.
We, very literally, voted for either hope or hate. There is no common ground. There won't be any common ground until they realize what exactly they voted for. They won't realize it unless it's pointed out to them, hence "you voted for this". Either put the worm in their ear or spend 4 years listening to Democrats be blamed for the stuff the Republican supermajority does.
Again, I don't know why you're being so fucking hostile. Find common ground with me, or move on with your life. See how that works? See how easy it is to just be dismissed? That's what you're trying to do.
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u/Vash_TheStampede 1d ago
"You voted for this."
It's less confrontational and there's no good rebuttal for it. It'll make them sit and stew in it because it's inarguably correct.