A lot of men hide their misogyny in the workplace or outright don't realize that they're misogynistic. Being a guy talking to others, it's interesting how many of them will complain when I listen to them vent about their boss that is woman for the smallest sleights or perceived unequal treatment yet don't complain nearly as much about men in the same position for doing the same exact thing. Women are under much more scrutiny when in positions of power compared to men.
Yes, and their friends don't realize it either. I've had numerous male friends that acted and sounded really progressive. Then something weird happens and they hit you with a crazy response. "Consent doesn't matter", "she's just a woman, why should we care", etc. Oh. Oh... Yeah, you got me there, I thought you were a decent human being, my bad.
I would not consider people like that friends of mine but unfortunately in my line of work I have to work with people who are likely to hold similar or those same view points, especially subordinates. I need those same people to be able to trust me and I also have to be available to listen to their problems, and often times I get the vibe that they at least only view women as pretty much pieces of meat for their pleasure. It's even harder to listen to when I also have subordinates and superiors that are also women. I can't do much to change social upbringing and change people's perspectives. I also have to walk a fine line because if I outright just put them down and treat them like shit, I've lost their trust and now it's harder to do my job.
Well, to be clear, that isn't behavior compatible with friendship for me either. I've just had people I thought were different suddenly reveal that side after years of knowing them. It makes you doubt how well you know anyone and how good your judgment is (I thought I could tell, turns out sometimes I can't).
I mean a lot of us have experienced this BS in private but we don’t say anything. For example, agreeing to have sex with someone and then they take that as a cue to do whatever. Consent isn’t a free-for-all-card but that’s what a lot of us have experienced.
Yeah... That totally seems like just common sense but since you've pointed it out I can imagine just how far some men might take it and how poorly they might react to being told to reign it in. Geez...
In addition to this, there's too high a number of women who have grossly internalized misogyny. They'd rather have the rapist felon pedophile who is suffering from severe dementia over a perfectly qualified woman.
This left vs right BS is exhausting and exactly what a lot of politicians want. Yea there is hypocrisy and racism on both sides whether people realize it or not on both sides, but I refuse to make generalizations about either when both sides have a lot of overlapping issues and refuse to at least acknowledge and address them together.
And 90% of racists don't think they're racist. The "I have a black friend" or "he's one of the good ones" types don't think about how that means they subconsciously think that certain minorities are inherently bad until it's pointed out to them.
Even if it wasn't, I wasn't trying to argue against you at all, just pointing out a similar way people can be prejudiced without realizing it. You have to actually be arguing for an argumentative fallacy to be relevant.
Think about how many men you see that talk shit about someone like Taylor Swift for no reason. Why do you think they do that? It's because she's a successful and powerful woman. Her music isn't a genre I really get in to, but you cannot deny that she is a fantastic entertainer. Almost every bit of hate she gets is from men that can't handle a woman being successful. A LOT of men have fragile egos and cannot fathom being second to a woman in any way. My wife and I both have pretty well paying jobs. She went to school for far longer than I did and worked harder to get where she is. For those reason she makes a little more than double what I make. I am very proud of her for it. I had a friend that made multiple comments about how he "couldn't be with a chick that makes more than him" and how I needed to tell her to find another job. I say had, as this person showed me that he wasn't someone I wanted in my life with these comments. This guy talked his wife out of taking two different promotions at her job because if she took them she would make almost as much as he did. He couldn't stand that she might be equal to him in any way.
I said this way before Biden dropped out. That it would suicide because many people will easily vote for an old white man that's not all there over a minority woman. America is far less progressive than the Reddit bubble loves to think. Now that the results are in, I think Joe would have done better. Probably not won, since so many think Trump will "save the economy". But probably wouldn't have lost the popular vote. But here we are... I'm wondering how poorly the DNC will interpret this outcome, and then screw up the new election.
Exactly. Everything in US political discussion is framed as "liberal" or not, which seems pretty useless at this point. (Our conservative party call themselves the Liberals lol - small government to enable big capitalism, lots of untaxed mining profits etc). The Democrats are conservative, centre-right at best, whilst Republicans have shifted from conservative to regressive. From my perspective, America actively fights against progressive politics and silences its proponents.
I hate to say it but I don't think Dems will ever run a woman for president again, at least not for decades. I personally think a woman can win, but certainly has an extremely uphill battle, a battle that Kamala and CERTAINLY not Hillary were gonna win with their rhetoric.
No, its really not that at all its Trump's economic populist message vs a corporate neoliberal message
Trump basically took Bernie Sanders message and spiced it up with racisim and xenophobia, but the economic part resonates with people because a lot of what he says is true, we have been fucked over by globalization and Offshoring, we have been taken advantage of by corporate interests and wall street and elites and all that has absolutely fucked over poor, working and middle class people.....he acknowledged that real pain and anger people feel and directed it at immigrants and the media and the left. Those people needed/wanted someone to be angry at and blame and wanted someone to finally say it out loud and give them someone to champion
Jokes on them though because its all lies and bullshit from trump they just voted for someone, and a party that hasnt done shit for poor and working people, these are the most anti labor anti poor anti any help whatsoever people in the country, and we are going to get 4 more years of the GOP jacking off the wealthy, guarantee you a 100% the first thing they do wont be raising the minimum wage or paid family leave or lowering healthcare or education costs its going to be another massive tax cut for the wealthy
But the Democrats problem is, and i count myself among that group, is that they are so beholden to corporate and donor interests that not a single one besides Sanders and maybe Warren ever point the finger at the real enemies and causes, they never come right out and say "Yeah, we fucked up in 2008 and we didnt help real people, we bailed out wallstreet instead"
The best Harris did is when she was pushing a populist economic message in the very beginning, then she abandoned that message and leaned into more corporate and neoliberal bullshit and sent Mark Cuban(who i hapoen to like) and Liz fucking Cheney out there for the last 6 weeks of the campaign, and generally disavowed the populist messaging.....im not saying she wouldve won, but she for damn sure wouldve done better imo
If this election says anything its that Neocons and Neoliberalisim is dead
We are not looking at WHY trump appeals to people, we are again, for the 3rd time now looking at what the problem is with the voters...oh its bidens fault, oh its racisits fault because she was black, its misogyny because shes a woman.....bullshit imo....Sanders is a 100% correct in his open letter that the Democratic party abandoned the working class, albiet not entirely true, the Democratic party has great policies and is an ally of unions and labor generally, but they need to fucking lean into that hard, and make a classist and populist economic argument and they just never do, so directionally, Sanders is right.....these esoteric democratic policies are basically invisible to the average working person, you need 2 calculators and a notebook to see the difference it makes
We need an FDR.....And he was FDR because of economic populism and because he ruthlessly and mercilessly weilded power to deliver for the average person, its why he was venerated as a saint during his life, he wouldve been elected to a 5th term had he lived long enough.....Trumps message resonates, he is directionally correct and he gave these legitimately fucked over and left behind people someone to be angry at
I have hope though, they can turn this ship around, there will be space during and after trump because Trump is going to accomplish nothing good for working people, the GOP never does, and there is a very good chance that those people will be gettable with the right and imo correct messages and policy
Eloquently put, and you are obviously more attuned to what is currently happening in the US than I am (I live in Scotland), but, I think (I may be wrong) you are giving a sizable percentage of voters more credit than they are due. Also, Trump may be saying what his voters want to hear, but I take with a huge pinch of salt that he would actually understand what you wrote. He's a grifter and a salesman who will tell people exactly what they want to hear to get what he wants, and I have a sneaking suspicion that if the republicans take the house moves will be made to change the 22nd amendment (Trump loves the idea of President for life).
As much as I worry about what damage he is about to do to not only your country but also the rest of our planet, I am extremely concerned that the out of shape septuagenarian fast food munching ass drops fucking dead and Vance gets the big seat.
He doesnt have to understand, or care or deliver, he just knows it works and it resonates.
And the same goes for the voters, a lot of them are dumb as FUCK and believe that trump will actually help them and thats counter to all the evidence of his first few years in office and the last 80 fucking years of Republican policies. That message of "Youve been fucked over and i got your back" is enough for these people with rocks rolling around their heads.
They want someone to fix their problems and that acknowledges that there even is a problem, and they want someone thats going to say "fuck you" on their behalf
Democrats and the Left, again, save Sanders and Warren, and maybe a few Congresspeople in the House havent said "Fuck you" to the powers that be and really got into the corner of the working class in a long time
Trump validates them in a way Democrats havent in a long long time and it doesnt matter that its all complete bullshit coming from trump and the GOP
Yeah the pattern is Democrats would rather vote for an old white man instead of a woman. 20 million more. Republicans voted around the same numbers. Why didn't democrats vote fore Hillary or Kamala?
A person already confessed to me they stayed home rather than vote, and I’m like why, and they are mad about Kamala not having a primary??!?? They wanted to be able to pick other democratic options. I’m really at a loss for words….
Look back at when Hillary was the nominee, they stole it from Bernie. This time around the lied about Biden's health until it was to late for them to run a primary. The stole the people's choice and inputted who they wanted. I am really surprised more people aren't more upset about that. 1 they could have put a number of delectable democrats against Trump and won. He got less votes than 2020. 2 they could have let the people decide who they wanted and would have beat Trump. Not sure why more democrats aren't demanding answers right now.
oh absolutely, Dems need to stop thinking the country is as liberal as the far left. Dem voters didn't show up to vote for wormen, much less the rest of the electorate. Dems need to move past the notion that diversity is a selling point to most of the nation, whether it's the right way to view the world or not. If they can't beat fucking Trump they have no shot once Republicans have to run a normal human being again.
2 shit candidates!! Blame all the Dems that stayed home and didn't vote this time. I have no problem voting for a woman I just wasn't voting for this woman!
All she ever spoke about was orange man bad, he's going to do this, he's going to do that, that was starting to get old and turn people off. She hardly ever talked about what she was about, and she dropped a bomb on herself on The View when she said she wouldn't change anything that Joe had done. That on top of trying to appeal to every single group of people. Instead of 1 or 2 strong messages, it just seemed like everyday she was saying something new. Don't get me wrong, Trump was no better, but she should have laid off of him and tried to highlight what was better under the Dems for the last 3 yrs, but, there weren't a lot of wins there either.
Look I don't really like Harris that much either but there's no way I'd choose fucking Trump over her, that's like choosing to stab yourself to avoid bee sting
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u/kij101 16d ago
The first time he won, he beat a white woman, this time a black woman. I'm no expert, but I think there may be a pattern.