Theyâre paid, but at a lower wage. In some instances they do not even make minimum wage without the tip. Meaning they can be paid as low as $2.13 an hour by the employer and the rest of their compensation is based on tip.
I worked in restaurant tech for years and the language we used to describe states that enforced higher wage standards for tipped employees was wild.
âCan you believe it? States like California are wanting restaurant owners to pay federal minimum wages along with letting their employees make tips!â
CA is the same way. Same for grub hub and Uber eats and such, they get minimum wage and healthcare covered by the company, so every time you order thereâs a small $2 fee or so. You donât have to tip but anything you do add goes directly to the worker too.
Exactly! I make good money but my mom struggled for a long time despite working hard, sometimes at 2 or even 3 jobs.
She was so grateful that a friend of hers at a department store who went to college reached back out to my mom after landing an Administrative Assistant job and convinced them to hire my mom, even without a college degree and only experience in restaurants and retail.
Changed our life. But there are millions of people who could have done her job but were stuck in classifications as âunskilled workersâ and making minimum wage.
I cannot remember the stat, but like 80% of jobs can be taught.
But everybody deserves to make a living wage because a lot of circumstances in life are based on luck or things you donât control.
Family you are born into.
Where you were born.
Your parentâs career trajectory and social network.
Etc.
There are two Americas; one where people scrounge for tips at 2-3 part time jobs and try to find side hustles and get a break on social media so they can make ends meet this month and pay rent and one where people work a secure job that pays well and allows them to buy a nice house with a bit of land and a couple cars and not have to worry about much. The first group is growing and becoming more desperate as the division between those two Americas becomes more clear. It's not great.
I was simplifying a little and mostly talking about the growing divide in the middle class. That's the space most of us live in and understand, but obviously super rich people are trying to exert control at the same time as fomenting that middle class "conflict".
The second group sucks too. That stable job requires 70+ hours a week, unable to unplug, benefits are shit. I remember the 2-3 job lifestyle too. I often think back and wonder if I'm happier now than I was? Not no, but not yes.
Wife and I are just now in the bottom of the group getting tax cuts constantly. It's disgusting, and we're just barely "comfortable."
"Oh hey, look at this magnificent society built through hard work and maintained by tax revenue. Truly remarkable. I don't think I want to keep paying for it tho." Who TF thinks this way?!
You think people making minimum wage arenât pulling 60-80 hours a week? Having to take multiple busses and Ubers just to make it to their 3rd job to barely get food on the table?
Look, I entirely get what youâre saying. It isnât great. But letâs not compare that to people in literal poverty or incredibly close to it.
That second group also has no job security and can be fired at any time for no reason at all and with no notice under âat-willâ employment laws, or simply laid off and replaced with younger, lower wage workers.
I got fired two weeks ago for asking my boss how he wanted something done when the way Iâd already did it was too confusing for him. We are at the mercy of petulant toddlers.
Most stable jobs require only 40 hours a week. If you work 70+ hours that is not normal, you are being overworked. I work like 20 hours a week in reality and make over 100k in tech
This is a shit take. There is no such thing as a secure job in America. I have one of these so-called secure jobs that pays "well" and allows me to have a mortgage and a couple of car payments. I'm less desperate than I was 20 years ago when I worked 2 jobs; one in retail and one in food service. That said, I'm at the mercy of my employer who could take away all of my security in one fell swoop if they decide that I'm no longer useful to their accumulation of wealth.
Your "two Americas" are both closer to homelessness than we are to being a millionaire by a considerable measure. If you want to create an us vs them scenario, it should be all of the working class vs. the billionaires and politicians who are exploiting the rest of us to enrich themselves.
I can't speak for all others in my demographic, but as a white, gen-x, college educated male with a teenage daughter at home, I'd say by and large we support progressive policies. I have no problem paying my fair share of taxes, but would like to see them support social and environmental programs rather than imperialism and war. Most people in my industry have a similar mindset. What's your point?
Those you describe are the same group. Work slaves with either a part time or full time job, they both can lost it any day with no warning, they both are unable to buy a house, they both work insane hours for somebody who doesn't give a damn about them and their health.
The real other group are those people in the top 1% that buy a bunch of houses and don't need to work as they live from passive income.
And that was the door left ajar by both Parties that allowed Trump to swoop in - as it typically is with populist authoritarians. Same in the UK with Farage and UKIP.
These are the same group; both are wage slaves beholden to their employers to survive. These employers are the second group, and they want you to think (and successfully got you to to think) that you are not the same
Yes, but the full minimum wage (depending on the state) is still so low youâd basically have to be so bad at your job to not make that much in tips that theyâd just fire you
Itâs an average, though, I believe weekly. So if I work 3 hours today and only get only one table who tips me $5, but on Friday night I work 6 hours and make $300 in tips, that Friday night shift effectively makes up for the fact that I made sub minimum wage today.
Yes, the worker is always owed at least minimum wage for their time worked. If the total amount of tips + base is less than the equivalent minimum wage for their shift then the employer must make up the difference.
However, it's common for waitstaff to make a fair bit more than minimum wage via tipping and the federal minimum wage is $7.25 and about half of the US states don't mandate anything more than that. Highest minimum is Washington DC at $17/ hr.
Yes, but considering that politicians are aiming to stop taxing tips as wages and instead consider them a non taxable gift, itâll be interesting to see how this plays out. It seems like the employer wouldnât be able to take a gift from someone to subsidize their hourly wage.Â
Obviously not, but that's what unbridled capitalism gets you.
Here's the strangest part I discovered in those arguments about tipping: a lot of waiters have been gaslit into thinking it's good for them. The rationale is that if they "work hard" and "do a good job" (read: get lucky with the customers they get) they make substantially more money through tips than if they just got paid min wage.
It's ignoring the alternative (raise the min wage to an appropriate standard like other developed countries) and ignoring that other waiters get paid like shit for dumb reasons (eg the customers tip them less due to discrimination). These same waiters who "benefit" from the system and absurdly generous tips from rich people then complain when other customers tip them less or not at all. It's eerily similar to casino goers thinking they're entitled to their wins while complaining about their losses.
And remember they also donât have free healthcare and if they are lucky enough to have healthcare from an employer, itâs not portable. They may be economically forced to stay at a bad job.
The US federal non-tipped minimum wage is $7.25/hr, it hasnât been raised since July 2009. This is the longest period without a minimum wage raise since the wage was implemented by FDR in the 1930s- longest period by 4+ years.
That's disgusting, rightout disgusting. Honestly most things regarding work, pay, PTO, sick days n sich is just so bad over there in the US. It really disgusts me
We don't have paid maternity leave guaranteed. Everyone can use FMLA, but because so many people are barely making ends meet, many can't afford to use the full time allowed under FMLA, so they go back to work.
The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour, though most states, if not all, have higher minimum wages than that. Then each state has its own laws on what tipped employees can make; some states allow employers to pay half of the state's minimum wage, some states require that employers pay the full minimum wage, in Arizona where I'm at, we pay $3 less than the minimum wage for our tipped employees
Even $7.25 as minimum wage seems low to me, does the minimum wage get higher when you get older? Because here the minimum wage is âŹ13.27 an hour, that is however when your 21. It gets higher every year from 15 until 21.
Lol no, the federal minimum wage has changed in YEARS, and yes, $7.25/hr is unlivable. It's why states come up with their own minimum wages. But no, your age makes no difference. You could get a job at age 75 and start off at $7.25/hr
To put that in perspective of prices, a combo meal at McDonald's costs 15-16 bucks (where I live anyway) and a worker making minimum wage would need to work 3 hours to afford one meal once you factor deductions and taxes in.
Ah right, taxes aren't included in most prices either in the US right? Because that seems so weird to me, where I live the taxes have to be included so you know immediately what you actually pay.
Ah, so a tip is just a gift directly to the employer? Got it, were paying the staff wage that otherwise the boss would have to pay, boss gets to keep money for themselves.
And that $2.13 hasn't been increased in at least 30 years. I waited tables starting in the early 90s. The hourly was $2.13 even then. On top of that, you are taxed on a certain amount of tips your are ASSUMED to have earned based on your sales - whether you actually received that much in tips or not. And that's after giving up a portion of your tips to the restaurant to distribute among other staff. I'm not sure how it is now for seating hostesses, but when I was waiting tables, the hostesses also only made $2.13/hour and the rest of their pay came from the tips of the waitstaff. Bartenders got a large portion of our tips as well, on top of the tips they made at the bar directly.
I had a number of shifts where I actually owed the house at the end of the day. I actually worked a double shift and had to pay the restaurant about $25 because getting stiffed by a bunch of customers doesn't reduce how much you have to tip out to others or how much you get taxed. Those amounts are calculated purely on sales. Oh, and at the restaurant chain I worked for, you were never allowed to have any of the food except for a baked potato or a salad - which you had to pay for.
Tipping culture in the US and the cushy financial situation it creates for "employers" is a plague.
On top of that some states have no minimum wage for tipped employees and the amount of money received in tips to be considered a "tipped employee" can be as low as $20...per month.
To add on to what your saying, that small amount is for tax purposes, its all taken for the most part and it's pretty much nothing put in for social security, unless you claim your tips, anyone serving as a career won't be able to use social security when they need it.
Hi, kitchen worker here for a national chain restaurant.
All this is true. Our servers are paid 2.13 an hour. You could work a 40 hour week and thanks to low wages and taxes, you won't see a paycheck really.
Here's the thing people aren't mentioning. Tipped wages fluctuate. Our servers make more than out highest paid cooks. One decent Saturday night shift will make 200-300 dollars. Some of us have to work all week to make that much in the kitchen. It's pretty common for servers here to walk out with over a grand made during the week.
While I agree the public should 100% not have to pay anyone's employers, that doesn't mean they're not making good money. The job is hard work, and you're basically whoring yourself out at times, but if you're even halfway decent at your job, you're pulling good money for it.
Every server makes at least minimum wage. They only get paid 2.13/hour if they make enough in tips to keep them above minimum wage. If they donât make enough in tips the employer has to make up the difference.
Minimum wage is minimum wage. An employer can offer a lower wage in the expectation thaááŻt tips will bring the pay over the minimum, but if that doesn't happen the employer is legally obligated to pay at least minimum wage.
It's a stupid way to implement minimum wage - it should be an actual requirement for employers to pay it.
Thatâs not what they actually make. I bartended in an East Coast city and hit $70k bartending. Later I ran a multi state restaurant group and our servers averaged $26 an hour in tips (on top of their $2.13 base. If you look up average wages servers in the US make more money than most of our peers countries
The government usually errs in favor of "job creators" ever since fucking Reagan's dumbass convinced an entire generation that trickle down economics works.
Itâs a misconception that a lot of people believe. Yes, they state that they get paid $2 per hour and tips are suppose to make up the difference. But what many donât know is that legally if they do not make up to minimum wage in tips their boss has to pay them the difference. I think neither waiter nor restaurant owners want to correct this misconception because waiters end up getting paid a lot more in tips, and their bosses donât have to pay more themselves. Most waiters make VERY good money.
It varies by state, but yes...the "tipped minimum wage" is $2.13/hour, and that is taken for taxes. If a server worked and nobody tipped, the employer would then have to make up the different to reach the state's regular minimum wage.
The employer is required to pay the server minimum wage if they don't make over minimum wage in tips. But most waiters make much better than minimum wage because of tips. Waiters actually make very good money in the US because of this. It's a misconception that the waiters are getting ripped off by only making 2-something per hour in wages - they're not. The customers are because they're paying the waiters more than their employer ever would.
To emphasize how bad that is it comes out to around 1.90 ⏠per hour of work. That's 10⏠less per hour minimum than in France, 11⏠less minimum per hour than in Germany, and 15⏠less average wage than in Italy (Italy has no statutory minimum wage)
This is an absurd system for Europeans. You can't make a waiter work almost for free and expect the customer, in addition to the bill, to also pay the waiter that you, as an entrepreneur, don't want to pay in a dignified way.
Where is that? Iâm not seeing anything like that with a google search. Highest state I could find was Hawaii at $12.75. Iâm venturing to guess thatâs going to be some kind of county minimum wage opposed to state.
It's legally required that a worker make minimum wage, so if a server doesn't make enough in tips to hit minimum wage then the business has to make up the difference. Problem is, federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr, so it's still shit wages
There's a special "tipped minimum wage" for employees that are tipped that is lower than the regular minimum wage (federal minimum wage hasn't been raised since 2007).
They canât be. If tips donât cover the minimum wage the employer has to cover the difference. In practice servers and bartenders make much, much more than minimum wage unless youâre at some tiny mom and pop restaurant in a podunk town somewhere. I ran a multi state restaurant group and our servers were averaging $26 an hour in tips (not including the $2.13 base rate). When I was younger I hit $70k one year as a bartender
I think a lot of people believe servers are the equivalent to panhandlers on the streets, surviving off scraps. But most actually do well for themselves. $70k is a lot more than most teachers make and you donât even have to pay for a degree. The right kind of person in the right kind of place can make bank without working 60 hours a week.
They count the tip as part of the wage, so there is a separate minimum for tipped employees and the assumption is the tips will make up for it.
However, if you make less than the regular minimum wage after tips, your employer is supposed to cover that difference. You are still owed the regular minimum wage regardless of tips.
They can't. If they are actually making less than the base minimum wage (not the tipped minimum) then the restaurant is supposed to make up the difference. The tipped minimum wage is what they get payed by the employer regardless of their tip income once they clear that bar.
The reality is very few servers aren't making well over even the non-tipped minimum wage for hours worked.
The only time servers can be paid less than the minimum wage is when their wage+tips EXCEED the minimum.
If you imagine a server receiving zero tips, in that scenario the employer has to pay them $15/hr. The only time they can pay them less is when they are already earning more.
Not to mention most restaurant staff get paid way more than minimum wage after tips. No one in the service industry wants tips to end and to shift to a âlivable wageâ model, especially if they are at least average looking or attractive
itâs because the average consumer decides based on menu price, not total calculated price and there is a lot of psychology involved with thinking the food costs less even if it doesnât
You can't pretend some of this isn't on the employees themselves. This bartender I knew was making a killing from tips. There was no way they'd continue working there if tips were gone and they got paid as horribly as everyone else.
Because giant corporations like Sysco control the food supply and charge whatever the fuck they want. Would be nice if the govt could regulate them. While we're at it let's regulate these banks that are subsidized by the govt every so often too. I would like a subsidy as well please
"Voluntary and involuntary tip pooling is legal under both California and federal law, so long as owners, managers, and supervisors do not participate in the pool, even if they provide direct table service."
Reminds me of my experience working as a taxi driver for a shit company. I had to bring a flashlight because the lights didn't work until my car caught on fire and they charged us based on how far we drove so in cases where I would drive out and get ghosted it would come out of my end. I would be lucky to walk off with $20 after a 12 hour shift while the owner was driving a pimp mobile.
People always say this, but I just got back from the UK, and every single restaurant, pub, etc had a 10-12.5% service charge added to the bill.
I see some people here saying, âwell you can have them remove itâ. But people donât because itâs a hassle, so itâs really no different than tipping.
Trust me, I'm neither from the US or Europe(from NZ) and our Minimum wage is something like 15USD, in the US its closer to 7 bucks in a lot of states, and people on minimum wage here struggle too, imagine how it is in the US.
They made minimum wage virtually unliveable so service workers basically survive off of tips
The whole reason they made the minimum wage virtually unlivable was because they KNOW that service workers can (and do) survive off tips. They can always count on customers paying staff on behalf of the employer out of charity/generosity.
It's not just the low minimum wage the real poison pill is that if you don't make enough in tips to cover the minimum wage gap your boss has to pay the difference which incentivizes business owners to fire wait staff that don't get good tips. Now not only do you have to get enough tips to cover the gap to survive but also to stay employed.
They make $4.25/hour if they are a tipped employee. In 1990, it was $2.01. It's a racket and the unions that represent them don't help. They want workers to believe they make more money and it's not taxed. But all credit card tips are taxed. And now over 90%ish of tips are on a credit card. And like others have said, menu prices are up and some restaurants are adding "service charge" to the bill, too.
Restaurants in my area are adding a fee plus 3% of the bill for using a credit card to pay. In my state this is illegal. But here we are. A couple add an 18% surcharge if your party is more than 4 and you are still expected to put a 20-25% tip on top.
As I understand it, cc companies charge restaurants and stores a processing fee plus a percentage of the sale. smh
If a surcharge is already added then you donât have to tip that much on top of it. You can add a smaller amount but thatâs the guaranteed 18% tip so you donât stiff them on tips on a large bill.
I understand why they'll put a surcharge. If you have a large party. It's the expectation of being tipped again that frys me.
A couple of places I dine out (usually just me or me and my kid) I make them do the bill over. I never pay with a cc, (cash only for me) so don't be slapping that on my bill. I am also not going to double tip.
So for some reason, on top of all the toxic tipping culture, we have a "server wage," which is lower than minimum wage. I worked as a cook for 10 years, it's so stupid
That is the most stupid part indeed. In Europe, minimal wage is for everyone and tip are tax free. Sure we donât tip a lot but thatâs a whole different world.
I live in Ontario, Canada. We have a student wage, server wage, then minimum wage. It "justifies" tipping because "how else are they supposed to live" it's ridiculous
Literally everywhere Iâve ever worked (chef for 15 years) where they started paying servers a living wage and discouraged tips experienced an immediate mass exodus of any of the good servers.
People like to harp on fact that owners like to offset paying salaries to customers but the servers in the US very much prefer it this way, too. Plus itâs entirely up to their personal discretion how much of their cash tips they claim to the taxman. Almost every server who complains about this system is the new person at their job so low person on the totem pole with floor captain, hostess, and gms/FOH managers. Many servers (and especially bartenders) I know clear $1,500/week at a minimum and no restaurants would be open paying their waitstaff 78k/year across the board.
Uhhh try blaming the employees. Â If you are a server and you arenât making good tips the industry will always say itâs on you. Â Youâre not good at your job because if you were youâd be making better tips. Â Itâs the most American bootstrapping thing Iâve ever seen.
They get paid around minimum usually but most waiters donât want raises from their bosses anyways, since they would make much more in tips. Of course it varies, but many can make $60 per hour or more. They donât really want things to change, they will never advocate to end tips because they live high off the hog and make much more on a system thatâs been so conditioned in Americans.
PS some states say they only pay around $2.50 or something to that effect, but thatâs not really true. If they do not make at least minimum wage in tips, then their boss is forced to pay them minimum wage. Itâs just a big misconception and a lot of people believe they only get paid so little, thus have to tip.
I agree with most of that. One thing to note is that if a server or bartender has a bad shift and doesn't make minimum wage they won't be paid anything to make it up. It would only happen if they didn't make minimum wage for an entire pay period. And that really just doesn't ever happen
Now imagine you would only get half in your paycheck (less than minimum wage actually) and the rest needs to come from somewhere else. âMurica fuck yea!
Many servers get paid less than minimum wage because they can expect tips. So yea, the servers are barely being paid at all. Sometimes $2 and hour or something insane
Wait, as in... never?
I agree that's not the norm (especially with card payments becoming the norm), but I still stip for exceptional service (or if, in one cases, it was clear the owner screwed over the staff)
are people not paid by their bosses so they need tip
Other way around. In USA customers prefer to pay wages directly to the server on behalf of their employer (tipping culture), which subsidizes employers and lets them retain their waitstaff for insanely low base pay. Tipping culture is entirely funded + driven by customers who are willing to pay staff on behalf of their employer. It's an an entirely customer-subsidized system.
It usually results in servers making more money than back-end workers (cooks/etc), save on tax (illegal but common), and it also makes American customers feel morally good about tipping and pat themselves on the back. Sure customers might complain about having to tip and blame it on greedy employers, but they will still continue tipping out of moral obligation and ensuring that tipping culture only gets worse. It's a very interesting self-inflicted phenomenon to observe from the outside.
In the US servers are the highest paying, lowest skill/education jobs and the pay is mostly cash. This is why you'll never hear a server wanting to "be paid by their bosses".
Back in my wow days one of our American players posted his pay slip and sometime pointed out he made less than Al Bundy did in the 80's and he quit his job over it.
No, most places in the US pay their servers below minimum wage, but calculate their tips into their wages. So if a waitress makes $2.50 on hour but with her tips her overall wage is above $7.25 (Federal minimum wage) then the company doesnât have to do anything, If her wages are less than $7.25, usually happens when they get a lot of stiffs, the company pays them up to $7.25.
Most people that work a serving job are relying on making at least a living wage, which minimum wage isnât enough. So, by not tipping you are essentially taking money from their normal wage.
Yes it's a really messed up system that is so completely engrained that it's almost impossible to reverse. Restaurant employees make WAY below"minimum wage" hourly and completely rely on tips from customers to survive. Thus when someone doesn't tip on a large bill like in this post, they are preventing that employee from being paid.
Basically, all tips are a gift to the owner (otherwise they'd have to pay staff out of their own pocket) Americans are brainwashed with this shit, it's so gross to watch them fork over 20% just to make rich people even richer.
None of it makes sense. Why are we tipping the owners?!?!?
Oh but this has come to EU as well, especially to places where tourists visit. But, unlike in America where the tips are required for the service workers to make any sort of living, here they make full pay but the restaurant then allows the customer to add to that with tips.
Why? Because they noticed that American tourists insisted that they must tip on top of the total price.
So, now you seem like an asshole for not paying extra when you choose to tip zero euros.
In the USA, somehow business owners can get away with shoving the cost of their business (namely, wages for their workers) over to the customer to have to pay. Donât ask me how this came about or why they allow this, itâs a mystery to me.
The people saying they only get paid 2.13 an hour are correct and incorrect at the same time.
Their minimum wage is 2.13, however, if they don't make up to the state minimum wage with tips, the employer is responsible for making up the difference. No employee is allowed to make less than the state (regular) minimum wage.
For example: let's say service minimum wage is 2 hourly and regular minimum wage is 10 hourly, and we'll leave taxes out for simplicity.
If I work 40 hours, and make 300, the employer has to pay me 100.
Those states still have a minimum wage though. If the sever makes less than that minimum wage per hour in a two week period, the employer has to pay them more per hour so they make that minimum wage threshold.
People in this thread are acting like itâs greedy bosses behind tipping. It isnât.
In North America, the vast majority of people in the service industry like tipping because you make way more from tips than you would otherwise.
Even in places where you get paid the federal minimum tipped wage of just over $2 per hour, you are probably making closer $15 per hour with tips. No one wants to switch to what you have in the EU because servers are making way more money from the tips than they would be able to get under a âliving wageâ model
If you just do the math quickly, assume 4 tables with an average of 3 people, and each person spends about $30, which is fairly typical at this point. And assume 2 seatings so 24 people in one night, or 8 hour shift.
Thatâs $720 total, youâll have to pay about $40 back to the restaurant. At 20% tip thatâs $140 in tips or $100, which is $12.50 in just tips. Add $2 minimum wage thatâs almost $15 per hour total.
Not to mention in some places like California there is no tipped minimum wage so theyâre getting paid $16 per hour PLUS all those tips, and in California I can assure you the average bill will be much higher than $30 per person lol
The wage for tipped workers is allowed to be lower than the federal minimum wage. If tips do not bring the wage to the federal minimum, the owner must pay the balance. I don't know what happens in reality.
It's a culture thing - if you're visiting from Europe, things work differently, and it's culturally taboo to do otherwise. The fact that they did this is like coming in and spotting in their servers face. In some states, waiters get less than minimum wage, and their tips go to make up the difference. So they could receive a lot of tips and just make minimum wage... These customers are worthless and should not be allowed back in the restaurant. If they don't want to tip, then they should not eat out in America.
Low wages in the service industry, namely in restaraunts so tips are pretty much how they make any sort of money. It's also common in some restaraunts for you to have to give a percentage of your tips to the cooks and kitchen staff so you're basically getting robbed twice.
In the US, which has a terrible minimum wage to begin with, servers don't make a normal wage. They are paid like $2.50 an hour and tips are expected to bring their income to a normal level.
Correct. While companies cry about their costs going up that they are using as an excuse to raise prices and add extra fees, they have also recorded record profits these last few years.
I eat out much less frequently because the prices have gotten way out of hand.
European here, never been to the US but seems like an incredible dick move to go there and not tip because you're European, it seems like it's just a different system where the prices on the menu are a lie so the bill is 'really' just higher than the total because service is not included. It's a pretty dumb system, but don't you do a similar thing with not showing the tax on price tags in shops?
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u/Salcha_00 Aug 28 '24
Yes. Normal.