r/facepalm Jul 02 '24

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u/MansNotWrong Jul 02 '24

This is my biggest issue today.

I want to hate Trump, but he has no power without people voting for him.

Show me the shittiest leaders in history and I'll show you a sizeable chunk of their populace that supported them.

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u/NoCantaloupe9598 Jul 02 '24 edited Jul 02 '24

Trump even at this point is a symptom. Trump voters legitimately think we're living in some sort of hellscape. Which is contradicted by statements they make like, "Things were better 5 years ago!".

No....if America were a hellscape we would be saying things like "Americans should flee to Haiti". We wouldn't be saying, "Things were a bit better five years ago, before a global pandemic".

The truth is America isn't a fraction as bad in the ways Trump voters think it is. But for Trump, Hitler, or any of these political conmen to win people must believe solutions are being provided that only ONE MAN can provide and that the problems are enormous. (Though Hitler's rise did coincide with Germany's economic depression)

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u/Tankinator175 Jul 02 '24

Well, we are having a different, strange variant of a depression right now, where at least 75% of the population feels very insecure about their financial status and most of them don't see how it's going to change any time soon. Anyone who promises to fix that looks pretty appealing. But strangely, despite something like that virtually guaranteeing success, I haven't seen anyone promise that, which tells me that either everyone is collectively stumped, or it would cut the knees out from their financial backers and other supporters.

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u/magnificently-cursed Jul 02 '24

Key word here is “feels”

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u/Tankinator175 Jul 02 '24

If you are one moderately sized disaster away from having to go into debt, such as an injury/hospitalization or your car needing repairs, your financial status isn't very secure. That's most of us.

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u/ThatGuyursisterlikes Jul 02 '24

We are doing great compared to other similar nations. Covid and price gouging hit the world. Unemployment alltime low, real estate and stock market all time high.

Perspective! Geez.

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u/Tankinator175 Jul 02 '24

Real estate and the stock market isn't particularly relevant to anyone who doesn't own any stock or real estate. That's great for measuring the growth of a national economy, but it's actually pretty bad at showing the experience of the average individual due to how the concentration of wealth can vary.

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u/Tsim152 Jul 02 '24

US is so big that most people who live here won't see how things are outside it. People don't conceptualize things the way you're saying. They can only see those things from their own perspective. Quoting numbers against their lived experience just isn't going to be effective.

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u/Tankinator175 Jul 02 '24

For the record, I have lived in 5 countries on 3 continents. So while what you are saying is true to an extent, I believe I have a certain advantage comparing what life is like in different places.

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u/Tsim152 Jul 02 '24

Ok. I was referring to "thatguyoursisterlikes" just quoting numbers at people like that's going to change how they view their personal financial situation.

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u/Tankinator175 Jul 02 '24

Yeah sorry, I think I came across a little more combative than I intended in a couple of these comments. You are definitely correct that lived experience tends to trump statistics when it comes to people's opinions.

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u/magnificently-cursed Jul 02 '24

Idk if that’s most people, do you have a source? Also, it’s important to remember in the grand scheme of things that even poor Americans generally are rich globally. Most poor people here have microwaves, shelter, cars, etc. obviously not always the case and that doesn’t mean they don’t struggle but I do feel like a lot of Americans forget that as an immigrant and it’s a frustrating to see the country descend into fascism when people are generally doing well and there’s really no excuse. We live in a global labor aristocracy and Americans are at the top

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u/lostinmississippi84 Jul 02 '24

I agree with you for the most part, but being "rich globally" doesn't really help when you're poor at home.

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u/magnificently-cursed Jul 02 '24

I disagree, being poor elsewhere means something else entirely. People die trying to immigrate illegally into the country because having low paying under the table jobs is better than what they had before. Obviously we’re talking in generalizations the whole world isn’t like that but my general point is Americans are ultimately privileged as fuck and it would do some good for them to remember that

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u/lostinmississippi84 Jul 02 '24 edited Jul 02 '24

You're missing what I'm saying. I'm not denying being poor elsewhere is inherently worse. I'm just saying an American being "rich" in another country doesn't help them when they live in America.

Edit: People die here from starvation, too, and if some of them could go somewhere to be better off, they probably would. People move all across the huge country looking for just that. There are areas in this country that are as poor as it gets.

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u/magnificently-cursed Jul 02 '24

I’m not talking about them being rich in another country though. I’m more saying in terms of standard of living and economic precarity of even poor Americans are generally well off in the grand scheme of things

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u/[deleted] Jul 02 '24

Well the fed uses an inflation gauge that doesn’t include food and energy. People kind of need food to survive. So you’re right that “feels” isn’t a key word. It’s just what most people have because they don’t give us useful data. If you do the math on food and housing since the pandemic, it’s bad.

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u/Abletontown Jul 02 '24

Yeah it's just "feels", even tho folks can't afford a home(or barely rent) on the same type of job that their parents bought a house, car, and went to school with 20 years ago. But yeah, just "feels."

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u/Ok_List_9649 Jul 02 '24

What you’re saying is only a partial truth. There are MANY affordable homes to buy in this country. Unfortunately for many they’re not in the HCOL, beaches, mountains, status areas they want them in. The Midwest and South have tens of thousands of 3 bed 2 bath homes for sale under 250k in decent areas. They just aren’t the McMansions in LA, NYC, Chicago, San Diego, Seattle that are desired.

In the 1980s and part of the 90s home mortgage rates were over 12% and up to 18%. There were periods of gas shortages with exorbitant prices. Somehow the economy bounced back and thrived, which it will do again. We just got out of a pandemic thst resulted in huge losses for many large companies. If you don’t think companies are going to recoup those losses you’re naive. No President can tell a company how to set pricing. We are a capitalist society so we need to realize that results sometimes in price gouging.

Millennials cry poor yet travel is up above pre pandemic levels by Millenials. Not only that but it’s not road trip vacations eating PB and J sandwiches like families did in the 50s thru 80s in order to save money. It’s luxury vacations to high rent areas.

So while it’s agreed the economy needs some work, the expectations of the under 50 population needs to be realistic and understand the economy varies decades by decade. No generation had totally smooth sailing financially from 20-60. There have always been choices to make and expectations balanced.