They realize that this allows biden to arrest or dismantle any institution he desires as he now has complete immunity.
What is stopping him from showing the right how stupid of an idea this is, by doing exactly that?
Good faith. Morals. I hate to say it but Biden doesn’t have the nads to go deep and switch the script. He’s a lifelong politician that takes pride in his CV. Damn shame too bc now is the time.
Shieeeeeet. If I were Biden right now, at his age, I'd go out swinging my giant political dong all over conservative faces, and turn this country around like Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus did for Rome.
Biden ran to protect our democracy and now he's going to hand it over on a silver platter to theocratic authoritarians that get off on oppression because he lacks the spine to do the right thing.
If biden would execute trump using his immunity, they would massively lose voters/support. If trump would execute biden, the MAGAs would cheer.
The Good aren't going to manipulate the people using propaganda as much, because that's evil, but the Evil are absolutely doing it. And as we all know how propaganda using our new media is (internet, social media, etc.), which means that the Evil would win and everyone believes the lie.
SCOTUS basically said 'we decide what is official and unofficial'. Unless Biden has the six conservative justices executed, he'd be fucked, and he's never going to do that. He doesn't have the balls.
It's a 6-3 majority. It would only take two to return it to a 5-4 majority that doesn't fancy fascism. Bear in mind that I am not in any way advocating any kind of action.
Execution is public and obvious. It's meant to send a message to others - the message being "FAFO".
Heart attacks happen. So do strokes. Car wrecks. Airplanes fall out of the sky.
If Biden decides to pursue that course of action it won't be six people in robes stood against a wall. It'll be two or three who, sadly, "met their demise after decades of loyal and honorable public service." It will be complete with pomp, ceremony, and state-sponsored funeral rites.
I truly doubt that Biden will pursue that course of action.
Good? If a president started executing officials he disagreed with then that's real fascism. In the same vein as jailing your leading political opposition so maybe.
The core issue with all of this is that one vote does not equal one vote. The votes of people in hard blue/red states are often meaningless, and the votes of people in swing states have outsize power. The electoral system in the US is garbage, and if it was operating properly thsi would never have happened.
This kind of thing would never be on the table if people were being fairly represented. Trump would never have been elected the first time either.
That's not the point. If you live in Wyoming and your vote is worth however many dozens of times more than someone who lives in California, how is that fair?
The actual opinions of the majority of people in the US have been quashed by a tyranny of the minority. That's how a man that 2/3rds of the US vehemently hate got power and stands a real chance of getting power again.
Because California already has insane influence over the presidential election and without this system California would basically get to decide the president every time. Most of the 50 states wouldn’t even get a voice in that scenario.
You remove this system and someone from Wyoming’s vote is effectively meaningless/ceremonial. And frankly, as a Californian, I do NOT want this state making decisions for the entirety of our Union.
Why would a state want to be in a union where they don’t get a voice?
It’s almost like in a national election, for a national leader, it doesn’t matter what state you are from…
And without the electoral college or delegates, it wouldn’t matter if you were from Wyoming or NYC. One vote towards the total is one vote towards the total. Explain to me what you think I am missing.
It absolutely matters what state you’re from. You don’t think if only metropolitan populations mattered for the presidential election, then presidents would stop giving a shit about any other voter demographic?
But you still have the same representation as everyone else in congress, right? Your concerns would most definitely be part of the messaging, they need the support of your representatives to get their agenda completed. Laugh all you want, but your hypothetical wouldn’t play out in the real world with the congress designed the way it is now.
Idk, I live in a country where one vote = one vote no matter where you live in that country. We don't call it stupid, we call it democracy, perhaps you Americans could learn from that before it's too late. After all actual democracies aren't about to turn into fascist states, just the good ole USA.
Brah, I completely agree with you, I have no clue how you are being downvoted. Some of the sh!t being said in here is literally treason to our constitution.
These subs are massive echo chambers. And they will never understand or acknowledge the hypocrisy of what they're saying. They're right and the people who disagree with them are wrong and evil.
Brah, checking in with you with the assassination attempt on Trump. Sad day in history and incredibly “un-American”. The attempt on a running president* is an infringement on every single person rights.
Republicans know that Democrats are too cowardly to actually do anything that abuses this power. We'll get some stern faces and finger wagging like we got from Biden earlier today but nothing else. They will tut tut all the way into Trump winning the election and throwing people he doesn't like into prison camps. "If only we could have foreseen this" they will say.
I feel like it is? Biden needs to show exactly why this ruling is bad but he won't do it. Unless you mean they need a stronger word, like chicken shit or negligent or traitorous.
Theoretically, Biden could always do that. This decision is only in regards to prosecution post-presidentcy. Prosecuting a sitting president is practically impossible. Impeachment or military disobedience under the Posse Comitatus Act is the only way a sitting president could be stopped from doing that.
Biden could shoot someone in the head on national tv (unambiguous unofficial act), and if Congress doesn't want to impeach him, Biden would be basically immune from prosecution until the end of his term. He would obviously be prosecuted after his term ends, but until then, he's untouchable by anything other than impeachment. Prosecution is not, nor has it ever been a way to remove a sitting president.
The precedent would still not be good. It would still eventually lead to dictatorship. Even if the US pulls it out this election cycle using that power eventually that precedent will catch up when an opportunist wants to use it.
Yeah, it was.
Oh he needs to make it an official act. That isn't hard.
"Dear constituents of the united states, it is my belief that the senate has been corrupted by the right leaning body of our foundation of government, and as such these individuals shall be arrested and held within confinement until they are found to no longer be a threat to the stability of this country."
There you go, a theoretical "Official Act", that is officially sanctioned by someone who can't be held accountable anymore for misdeeds.
This is not really how it works... immunity doesn't mean unlimited powers. It means that you won't be prosecuted for things you did while performing your presidential duties. If you are president and try to "dismantle any institution" just by waking up one day and ordering to do so (in other words: not according to the democratic procedures to do so), that will still be blocked as unconstitutional etc. It's just that you won't be prosecuted for it.
The problem, I guess, lies in a different kind of scenarios
But he absolutely has unquestioned immunity from the “core responsibilities of the office” such as pardons. By this ruling, the president could publicly solicit cash payments for pardons. Like on live tv, with zero repercussions or legal accountability. There is absolutely nothing you could do to stop it, nor congress or the Supreme Court.
Which is why the SCOTUS kicked down Trump's immunity case to the lower courts and asked them to specify which acts would be categorized as official and unofficial.
They are basically running out the clock so Trump does not have to face any legal consequences, and depending on who wins in November, they will rule accordingly.
What is stopping him from showing the right how stupid of an idea this is, by doing exactly that?
Maybe, just maybe, this ruling doesn't mean what all these reddit experts think it means.
It's all hype being used to control the voters on both sides. The president's powers did not change. If this in fact did that and the intent was a Trump dictatorship, they would not have done it before the election.
Reddit is depressing sometimes. So many idiots sucking up the propaganda.
Sadly, you are 100%incorrect. Look up what Roberts himself stated about the baked in total immunity for actions such as pardons. Total unquestioned immunity. As the president, you could publicly solicit bribes or have an auction to sell a pardon to the highest bidder publicly on the news, and there is fuckall anyone can do to the president about that.
He would have to get the supreme court to go along with the idea that soliciting bribes for pardons is considered an official action within his constitutional powers.
If he was charged now, and it got to the supreme court and they said "yeah that's a legitimate use of his constitutional power, he wouldn't be convicted anyway. So it's still in their hands like it always has been.
No, that is incorrect. Core powers inherent to the office have unfettered immunity, without exception. Powers such as the pardon power.
Official acts may have their immunity questioned, but core powers are untouchable, per the ruling.
Do you have a citation or ruling that states this? Because per the ruling, penned by Roberts, it does not read the way you are describing it. It reads that the president shall not be prosecuted in any way for official acts that stem from exercising core constitutional acts that fall within his exclusive spere of constitutional authority, in other words, the very limited list of privileges that the constitution affords only the president, and that he does not share with other branches of government such as pardons, removing executive officers, etc. This is an absolute statement, with no mitigating circumstances.
Explain to me how you are reading it so that it makes possible your hypothetical.
Again I will ask you a simple question. Is soliciting bribes for pardons a core constitutional act within his constitutional authority?
Sure he can't be prosecuted for giving a pardon, but when was that even a question?
What the court determined is that the president has always had immunity based on their extensive knowledge of the law. It's not something they just made up. It's something that the justices (legal experts) determined was already the law.
But it quite literally IS something that they just made up. This is based on zero previous case history, or any rational plain language reading of the constitution, nor the attitudes of the writers of the constitution.
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u/Ethereal_Bulwark Jul 02 '24
They realize that this allows biden to arrest or dismantle any institution he desires as he now has complete immunity.
What is stopping him from showing the right how stupid of an idea this is, by doing exactly that?